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Unfounded Rumors

It's time for everyone's favorite segment, Unfounded Rumors.  It's where I toss out some rumors that have been floating around radio stations, message boards, my inbox, whatever.  You never know; we did get Russell Branyan right the last time we did this.  Feel free to debunk.

Apparently Dodgers GM Colletti is working on two deals, one big, one small.  Many have theorized that Bengie Molina would represent the small deal.  As for the big one, there are plenty of possibilities.  Could Eric Gagne be on the block?  It seems he'd have to prove his health first.

How about Bobby Abreu and Gavin Floyd to the White Sox for Jermaine Dye and Jose Contreras?  According to message boards, Philly radio personality Howard Eskin originated this one.  I'm trying to find more, but on the surface it seems like the Phils would want someone younger with less service time for their star outfielder.  Plus, word is that the White Sox want to wait til spring training before they consider deals for Contreras.

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Are you positive that it was Mike and Mike? Because I don't see anything about a Colletti interview in the archives about a Colletti interview.

However, Colletti was on TJ Simers' Sunday morning show yesterday, and he revealed the major and minor deal scenario to Simers. Also said he's working on an extension for Kent

Sorry about the redundancy in the last post, saw it just as I submitted...

Nah, not positive about it. Although if it was tonight it wouldn't be in the archives, right?

Your link says it's a morning show (I'll admit I've never listened, nor heard of it). You can click on the archives and look at them, even if you're not an Insider (although you can't play them)

There's a good chance that I don't know what I'm talking about. I do know the Simers thing is real, and Colletti really did mention he's working on a major and minor deal

Would the Phillies be able to squeeze someone like Josh Fields out of Chicago in that deal? Dye is a downgrade from Abreu, Contreras is an unknown commodity at this point. Abreu is a top 10 OF, and Floyd is only 22. It seems like there would have to be one more part.

If the Sox can get that deal from the phillies take it as soon as possible.

i dunno y the dodgers are thinking of trading gagne i mean hes the best closer today and if they trade him they better be getting an ace and a big bat for him.

UCLA: Well, he's also a very expensive closer, and there's the possibility that he may never be the same again. Factor into the equation the good young arms in their bullpen (although I think they should have kept Sanchez), and Gagne, despite being one of the most dominant closers during his tenure as Dodgers' closer, may be expendable. If he does return to form and they decide to trade him, I'm sure they could get quite a hefty return. He has a great arm and incredible composure.

KH: Mike and Mike is a morning show (and a damn good one, too). I only caught a little bit of it today, and did not hear any mention of Colletti. Mike and Mike have been focusing mainly on football as of late, but again, I didn't catch much of the show...

when i heard major move gagne was the first name to pop into my mind. like people have said he is expensive and who knows how he will bounce back from this injury. i also think albeit possibly unfairly there is a lot of underground speculation on him and steriod use. unless they found someone willing to take on that drew salary (highly unlikely) then gagne is the only player i think they would be considering moving that would be considered major.

How about David Wells and Kevin Youkilis for Adrian Gonzalez and a reliever?

If the Phils did that deal with the ChiSox, I'd throw myself off the Walt Whitman.

Could one of the Dodger moves be for Javy Lopez?

They have Sandy Alomar, Russ Martin and Navarro as their catchers right now. They also have excess at 1B with Nomar on board.

How about Lopez and a mid-level prospect for Navarro and Choi? We have discussed it on some Orioles boards and it seems to make sense to both teams.

I'm not going to get into the Contreras debate again, other than to say at $8 Million, he's clearly below market value, and should be in demand (the extent of which can be debated).

But as far as the hitters go, how much weight do you give the 2005 stats? If the answer is a lot, then this is a steal for the Phillies. They get a hitter who wasn't _that_ far off from Abreu, plus Contreras, and save about $3 Million.

Of course, Dye is an injury risk and should only be counted on to have an OPS around .800, while Abreu doesn't miss a game and should be around .900. But still, given the Phils' stated desire to move offense for pitching, this seems very fair - especially when you consider Floyd's huge regression last year (Hamels is the guy that they'll be protecting, off-field problems aside).

And after all that, we'll have the requisite "You idiot, Williams is only going to trade Contreras for pitching" posts.

bobo, how can you say Dye isn't that far off from Abreu? It was a blessing that Dye stayed reasonably healthy last season, and he still couldn't pull in 100 RBI. Abreu, meanwhile, is a legit 30/30 guy who always hits for average. I can't see any GM agreeing to part with him for damaged goods.

Contreras for Floyd might work straight up.

Bmore boy, that one sounds pretty reasonable to me. I could see it happening as described.

Personally I don't think Floyd has much value after an awful 2005.

"how much weight do you give the 2005 stats?"

Dye: .846 in 568 PA

= not _that_ far off from:

Abreu: .879 OPS in 705 PA

Abreu's been closer to 20 HR than 30 more often than not, but point taken that he can hit for power. 30 steals are ok, but when you get caught a quarter of the time how much value do they really add?

I'm not debating that Abreu's better (and I may even say _much_ better, because my comments above were based on a comparison of 2005 numbers), but is he 3+ times better? Is he worth Contreras, Dye, and, say, Scott Eyre (a FA reliever signed at market value)? Because that's how much he's making.

Contreras for Floyd? Ah....I get it...you must be the guy who wanted to trade a backup catcher for Contreras...

Its true that many execs sya Gillick will make a spalsh before the season starts - but noit forcing Craig and likely 1000s of phils fans into the Delaware river. People havent given up on Floyd here - he's only 22. So, we wont give him away cheap.

Now Abreu for Gagne would fit both of those unfounded runors....dont know if Id do it of if LA would but its intriguing...


I think Detroit, Cleve, Boston or LA is a better trading partner for Phils than ChiSox unless Buehrle or Garcia is the trade for Abreu.

A Detroit fan and I came up with:

Zumaya,Maroth and Granderson for Abreu

We also talked about Lieby for Pudge or Inge for Bell to sweeten it for the Phils....

If I could throw Floyd in and make it Verlander instead of ZUmaya it'd be a deal but intriguing to me if its just ZUmaya

Am I dreaming??

Its true that many execs sya Gillick will make a spalsh before the season starts - but noit forcing Craig and likely 1000s of phils fans into the Delaware river. People havent given up on Floyd here - he's only 22. So, we wont give him away cheap.

Now Abreu for Gagne would fit both of those unfounded runors....dont know if Id do it of if LA would but its intriguing...


I think Detroit, Cleve, Boston or LA is a better trading partner for Phils than ChiSox unless Buehrle or Garcia is the trade for Abreu.

A Detroit fan and I came up with:

Zumaya,Maroth and Granderson for Abreu

We also talked about Lieby for Pudge or Inge for Bell to sweeten it for the Phils....

If I could throw Floyd in and make it Verlander instead of ZUmaya it'd be a deal but intriguing to me if its just ZUmaya

Am I dreaming??

if the sox get rid of Dye why would you get rid of a player who was the World Series MVP? Thats a dumb mistake in the beginning

Theres no way Detroit trades Verlander, and I doubt they trade Zumaya either. Gillick wants a #1 or #2 right NOW, not a guy who might be one in 3 years.

[Ernie Banks watched video of the World Series champion White Sox being feted by more than 2 million people at a ticker-tape parade through the neighborhoods of Chicago. "It should have been us," Banks said Monday from his home in Malibu, Calif. "I've thought about that a lot. Had we done it in 1969, that would have been the epitome of my life."]

...But instead Mr. Cub will have to carry the guilt of 1969 to his grave.
What a Choker!

Regarding Abreu/Floyd for Dye/Contreras--that deal would need to be expanded to keep me from jumping off the Ben. Maybe Dye/Contreras/Cotts/Fields for Abreu/Floyd/prospect

On overvaluing Abreu:

I understand that losing him will cause a whole in the lineup, but how you can you ask for the world for a guy who's signed at (or even above) market value?

On overvaluing Abreu:

I understand that losing him will cause a hole in the lineup (though it would be partially mitigated by Dye), but how you can you ask for the world for a guy who's signed at (or even above) market value?

Totally pulling this one outta my tail, but...

Andy Pettitte back to the Yankees if the Astros are in the Tank.
Alfonso Soriano to the Yankees as a DH/new RF to replace Gary Sheffield(and allow sheff to DH). Either of these moves make sense to me.

The trade bait would be Duncan/Melky.

Rumor, does any of this make any sense at all to you?

Melky+Christian Garcia for Pettitte at the all-star break?

Totally pulling this one outta my tail, but...

Andy Pettitte back to the Yankees if the Astros are in the Tank.
Alfonso Soriano to the Yankees as a DH/new RF to replace Gary Sheffield(and allow sheff to DH). Either of these moves make sense to me.

The trade bait would be Duncan/Melky.

Rumor, does any of this make any sense at all to you?

Melky+Christian Garcia for Pettitte at the all-star break?

Soriano for Duncan??

We don't want soriano part two although I would consider the Pettite one if i was the yankees although I may just have a soft spot in my heart for pettite

Now, here's my chance to be objective. I'm a Yankee fan and think there's no chance of these happening.

Well, maybe the Soriano one, only because teams apparently now realize that he's overpaid and, well, a pretty bad player. Duncan hasn't done anything remotely impressive though, despite the hype.

As for Pettitte though, not a chance. Cabrera's worthless, and admittedly i don't know much about Garcia but his numbers don't totally jump out at me. Good k-rate, very nice HR/9, but he has to cut the walks, and furthermore, if Pettitte was on the market, there's no way Houston is going to gamble on a low-profile, low-level pitching prospect.

Personally I think the key to the Yankees' offseason was leaving the DH spot open. As of now they've got Bernie who can still be a slightly-useful hitter, and they get to see what Phillips can do. If, at mid-season, Phillips isn't performing and they decide they need more offense, they can go and get virtually anyone (because the hole will be at DH, as opposed to last year, when they were looking for a CF).

I could see them taking on a guy like Sweeney, but I'm still not sure if Duncan is enough to get it done.

GuyinNY
- Soriano is OVERRATED!!!
I still can't believe we got A-Rod for that guy.
As a fellow Yankee fan, Soriano Part II would not go very well:
Terrible Defense!
Isn't Clutch!
IS A WHINER!

Kyle
- You're a Yankee Fan???
Anyways. Yes I would love to see Andy back in Pinstripes.
I and millions of Yankee fans were disappointed when he left us two years ago.
Andy Part II would be to our pleasure.

Kyle
- You're a Yankee Fan???

I am not sure if that was sarcastic or not as I try to be objective as best I can.

In regards to pettite I wasnt saying that trade was necassarily fair for both sides. I would just love to get him back I hated seein andy go. and it eventually cost us clemens as well

Again, I'm just throwing these ideas out there. But, a righty DH bat makes alot of sense for the Yankees and Soriano is a proven New York player. In fact, it's his stated desire to come back to the Yanks. And while he does have his flaws (low OBP, too many K's, poor 2b defense), he's also the rarest position player in the game. A real, live, in-his-prime 30-30 man. Moreover, Soriano's attitude was swell in NY, and even if it is sour, Joe Torre has a way of making things work. I think Eric Duncan + some arm/Rudy Guillen would be a fair price on Soriano at this point, as Duncan did just win the AFL MVP, and he has done reasonably well considering age-relative-to-league.

Besides all of this, Soriano looked great in the OF for the yanks in Spring Training 01, and with only a 1 year deal, there's little that goes wrong if Soriano fails to succeed. He's just hitting his prime at 28, and there must be a reason that he's headed towards a 4-5 year deal at 10-12M a season. Add Soriano's bat to the lineup, and you strengthen it even further. So much so, that a staff comprised of no.3 starters could all have some very attractive w-l records, and maybe spare Torre from having to use Rivera so much. The more I think about it, the more sense it makes for the Yankees to add Soriano as a RF/DH. He's a player who solves alot of problems for the Yankees.

As for Pettitte, I could see it happening ONLY if the Astros are out of it. But, Melky's been great in winter ball and the only reason I suggested Garcia is being many people, including John Sickels, think he is a major sleeper. Hopefully his stock will be higher by summer.

Again, these are win now moves for the yankees, but with the exception of Duncan, they don't break apart the real heart of the farm system while dramatically improving the everyday club.

PS - I'm a Mets fan.

RUMOR - does this stand any chance of happening, or am I just indulging in fantasy??

GuyInNy I understand where you are coming from on your points but those moves really dont address the yankees two most important needs which are pitching and to get younger. The yankees have no problem with offense and I believe Sheffield may have an option for next year. But Melky offers the yankees a potential RF when Sheff eventually leaves and Duncan may turn into a very good first baseman. We have a good (admittedly not as good as Soriano) young second baseman with less ego problems than Soriano.

If the yankees could get pettite do it as long as it doesnt ravage the farm system but I dont think soriano helps us. He is a free agent after this yr anyways isnt he if they wanted him back they could just sign him then

Washington just gave up Wilkerson (what a huge mistake), Sledge, and a minor leaguer, I think they'd need more than Duncan and a fringe prospect for Soriano. Duncan will surely be sent to 1B if he went to Washington, Zimmerman will be there for the next 6 years at least.

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