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Bonds Used Wide Array of PEDs

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Wow.  Bonds sounds like a chemistry experiment.  Could the publicity surrounding this drive him into retirement?

Interestingly, ESPN and Fox Sports haven't picked up on this, probably because they don't want to drive traffic to SportsIllustrated.  C'mon guys, you can't ignore this for much longer.  Even MLB.com still hasn't mentioned the story.

UPDATE:  Now that the major outlets have begun discussing the new evidence, we should make a tally of how many times the word "damning" is used.

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ESPN Radio's talking about it on the Dan Patrick Show, though that could be a programming choice for that particular show.

yea but sammy sosa def didnt use roids or anything...just ask all the flub fans on this board

REM, it's not that we don't think Sammy's used because I for one do think there was something artificial involved. It's that there hasn't been as much as one shred of evidence apart from a mention in Canseco's book about his personal opinion that Sammy used. Bonds has his ties to Conte, BALCO, Anderson, the grand jury testimony, etc.

Yep, and Sammy forgot how to speak English in front of Congress as well. They guy didn't shut up from 1998-2003. An he used the corked bat in BP for the enjoyment of the fans.

Sammy was no saint, that much is clear, and I'm sure his day of reckoning will come at some point in form of a tell-all.

But we're talking about Bonds. Why lay into Cubs's fans? The most futile franchise in baseball and you guys rip into them. What, did you beat up on kids in wheelchairs when you were in school too?


It's the timing of this information and book that concerns me.

In my opinion, Barry Bonds is being framed in an elaborate attempt to stop him from passing Babe Ruth on the all time home run list.

Dude, I like conspiracy theories, but there is a mountain of evidence, commercial aspirations or not.

Come on Mike...be serious. Look at the guy. He even admitted he used steroids.

i like you mike grames. you nailed it right on the head. we wouldn't want a black guy passing up babe ruth. can you imagine if that happened? right now, especially, it's time to appreciate Barry Bonds...

...because this book is going to END HIM.

The man used steroids he is the biggest cheat in the history of baseball. I hope someone breaks his knee so he cant touch Ruth's record. The man is scum he is not deserving of the most sacred records.

Why is he any worse than anyone else who used steroids? Because he was good enough without them to become great with them? I don't consider him any more of a cheat than any other steroid user.

I'm just sad that I won't be able to stare, awestruck, at his statistics any more.


There may or may not be a mountain of evidence, but why is it coming out now?

On a side note, why doesn't anyone ever bring anything up about Clemens and possible steroid use? There have been many whispers throughout the years... (wasn't he brought up in Canceco's book?) yet I doubt if anyone has ever really pursued the story the way the SF Chronicle did with Bonds. Rumor, have you heard the rumors about Clemens?

The mainstream media have never liked Bonds, and they are deliberately releasing this "info" now in order to tarnish his image with him on the verge of an amazing accomplishment. It makes me sick.

Yes, because god forbid if a Black Man had more home runs than Babe Ruth...oh wait.

Yeah, I've heard the Clemens stuff, don't know what to make of it.

mike grames. just stop it. i'm not going to be fooled by anymore of your silly comments.

by the way, kyle, it's Aaron's record that needs to be preserved.

Bond gets hurt cant play anymore,I can see it now Bonds fall over Alou why falling asleep in the dug out.Bonds out due to hes legs and Alou wake up and says stop setting on the job

Mike- There is no dirt on Clemens....Jose Canseco has nothing on him...there was nothing in his book...he said his body type at that age looks like it could be....but he has nothing on him....and didnt do anything...hence the reason nothing is talked about or said.

why bring up sosa in this thread???

I wanted to beat cub fans to the punch of bringing up how the cubs would somehow trade for bonds now.

cmon anyone who reads this site knows every thread turns into cub "fans" attempting to turn the story into "how can it benefit the cubs"

i just wanted to sneak attack :)

Clemens is definitely suspect. Career is winding down in Boston, shows up in Toronto 25 pounds heavier and goes on a Cy Young tear. Leads the league in ERA last year when he should be in a rocking chair on his front porch. Roid rages when he throws a broken bat at Piazza. Maybe not steroids, but he has to be on HGH or something illegal. I love the guys who get real old all of a sudden when testing starts (Sosa, Boone, Lowell, etc). Then there's the guys who miss most of the year with mysterious injuries (Bonds, Giambi). And then there's Clemens, who's probably stacking every steroid known to man right now (and not playing so he doesn't have to be tested) and will appear "in better shape than ever" in July when he joins the Astros. Then he can load up again in the winter and do it all over again.

Glendon Rusch+Mark Texiera+Adam Dunn

For

Barry Bonds steroid bags.

O MY GOSH!!!

Does this make Bonds the eternal liar we all ~THOUGHT~ we was/is?

Possibly. Doens't tarnish my view on him though, I never thought all that highly of him anyway, because turned from being a base-stealer/homerun hitter, to one-dimensional.

i have a feeling ESPN wont make a big deal of it because of the WBC coverage right now.

This shitstorm has been swirling for 2+ seasons, Bonds isnt going anywhere. If anything, he'll keep playing and keep hitting HR just to spite everyone else.

Yeah... too bad Clemens and Bonds are both World Class douchebags.

Duh!!!! I can't believe people actually believed this guy was clean.Feel bad for the kids who looked up to the guy.Oh wait that never happen so suck off Bonds you suck.Bonds is over rated !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In my opinion: I believe, yes he took steroids. I also believe however if he wasn't black and an asshole people wouldn't be salivating at the thought of taking him down.

Anyways, wipe out his tainted numbers and he's still borderline HOF worthy. He likely wouldn't make it with his character also being considered, but don't forget that even pre-steroids, Barry Bonds was the best player in Major League Baseball.

I wouldm't call mainstream media the SF Chron the biggest news source in the US.Bonds is just a ^%$& he plays the race card all the time.He's not a team player you don't fight your own players unless he sleeps with your wife /girlfriend.Aaron will always be the HR king he's a guy with class and dignity he never pissed on the game.Bonds is selfish,and just a arogant %$#^.my 2 cents

Hey Barry ,Where's your ring?

Bonds wasn't the best player in the 90s...people forget how good Griffey was before the injuries.

For ones Clemens wasnt washed up when the Red Sox gave up on him he was still very good. The man works out all year long and treats his body like a temple.

Two the reason I said he shouldnt break Ruths record is he wont get to Aarons hes got at most one year left and he has his sights on Ruth's record for most home runs by a left hander.

Third the thing that pisses me off most about Bonds and roids is he would have been great without them. Up until the 1998 season he had 373 HR 1094 RBI 1754 Hits 417 SB Close to a .300 AVG. He had made 7 all-star games had won 7 gold gloves and 3 MVP awards. He was only 32 and well on pace to end up with more then 500 home runs and 500 steals he was a 5 tool player. Instead he turned himself into a 1 tool player. From 1999-2005 he has only had 61 steals and has one no gold gloves. He was destined to be great and he threw it away for more fame. It is a waste and that is why he is the only player currently in baseball that I actually HATE and wish harm upon

Ed: Good point...it could be debated until we're all blue in the face as to who was better--Bonds or Griffey. How the mighty have fallen, albeit for different reasons.

Maybe not every thread would become a Cubs thread if certain Sox fans didn't mention the Cubs. Just a thought...

Getting to the main point of the thread, why does the race card have to be pulled out so freely? Honestly, to claim that Barry Bonds is being persecuted because of the color of his skin makes me want to puke. Do you think, just maybe, that Bonds' incredible power surge and growing frame--including the size of his head--are the reasons he's received the head he's received? And another thing: If it is conclusively proven that he's used steroids (aside from "accidentally" using "flaxseed oil"), why should he be honored? Why should he be allowed to pass up Babe and Hank?

Barry Bonds has dug his own grave. Did his attitude alienate him from the media? Yes. Does the media scrutinize him because of his connection to BALCO and his notoriety? Sure. Did he use steroids? Sure as hell looks like it. Does he belong in the Hall of Fame, or even in MLB anymore? Absolutely not. The man cheated. It's a damn shame, because he is one of the greatest natural talents in the history of the game. But the fact of the matter is that he has cheated, and he doesn't deserve the honor to play in the Major Leagues anymore.

His fall from grace has nothing to do with the color of his skin. This isn't Hank Aaron getting death threats; this is a man cheating and getting caught. And for someone to sit there and insinuate that it's racist propaganda is pure and utter bullshit.

Not buying the one-dimensional argument at all. First off, stolen bases have been proven to have relatively little value. Secondly, even with crap defense, his insane offense made him by far the most valuable player in the game. By far.

Yeah but Mark Grace had the most hits in the 90s

Rumor: Are you throwing that out there as a fact, or comparing Grace to Griffey and Bonds? Just wondering...

A fact, and just messin' cuz Grace obviously isn't in their class but it's a piece of trivia people love to throw around.

Kyle: But the fact of the matter is that he has cheated, and he doesn't deserve the honor to play in the Major Leagues anymore.
---------------------

Baseball is full of cheaters, they go hand in hand from it's inception. From the 1919 White Sox, to 1951 Giants, to the Bossard family (groundskeepers for the BoSox), to Pete Rose. Even the "sacred" Hall of Fame is riddled with known cheaters in John McGraw, Gaylord Perry, Don Sutton, Whitey Ford, Ty Cobb, etc. Some are multiple count cheaters, had been caught red-handed, or well known. Even good ol' boy George Brett cheated once. So if you want to keep Bonds out of the hall, then there needs to be some major house cleaning of the Hall to justify keeping Barry out. Because even before steroids allegedly played a picture in Bonds career, he had accumulated 411 hrs and was argubly the best active player in the game.

Additionally, if Barry is to be kept out then McGwire and Sosa need to be as well.

Poll: If you had a HOF vote, would you vote for Bonds? Remember...he was going to be a HOFer without the juice.

My vote: I would probably go second or third ballot for him, just b/c he was a sure shot before '98. Sosa, McGwire, Palmeiro, etc. should all get shut out.

You kow what sickens me the most? Pete Rose not being inducted to the hall of fame just because he betted on baseball. And Bud Selig makes a big deal out of Rose's bet on his own team, but makes Bond's use of roids not eve close as Rose's bet. That jus pisses me off. My God, Bonds should be banned from baseball forever, not Pete Rose. That man worked hard during his years with the reds.

Is any of this a surprise? Forget the race BS, the guy made a damn mockery of the game, that is the true reason people are gunning to take him down. As much as I want to see a cheater banned, by MLB's non-rules, until last year he wasn't even cheating!

And I would take Griffey in his prime over pre-Franken-Bonds any day. Was Bonds really that great on D to win the Gold Gloves? Remember that dud offline throw allowing Bream to score the 92 NLCS winning run for the Braves? In his defense though, if the voters had not hosed him and given Terry Pendelton the 91 MVP, pre-Franken Bonds would have won 4 straight MVP's 90-93.

Bob: Think that was me you were quoting, not Kyle.

I agree that McGwire and Sosa do not belong in the HOF. Will that be the case? As it stands now, no. Neither Sosa nor McGwire will get in on their first time, but without concrete proof, there will be enough people who will vote for them. I don't agree with it, but I do see the justification; America's legal system is founded on the theory that a person is innocent until proven guilty. To this point in time, neither McGwire, nor Sosa, has been proven guilty. For that reason, both will probably eventually be inducted into the Hall of Fame based solely (and wrongly, may I add) on the fact that they took performance enhancers and hit a lot of homeruns.

As for cleaning house on current HOFers...I'm not sure I agree with that. I think the known cheaters--specifically Perry who has boasted about his ability to cheat--should be set aside, possibly via asterisk, but all of them were voted in based on their credentials at a time when there was no proof of them having cheated. I'm really, really on the fence in regards to whether they should be deleted or not, but I think for the time being they should definitely be set aside somehow.

As for the argument that "other people are doing it, so it's not so bad"...that's an erroneous argument and I can't stand when people use that defense for Bonds or any of the other juicers. Someone else's actions should not, and logically cannot be used as justification for another person's actions. Bonds doesn't have the right to cheat, just because McGwire or Sosa, or Gaylord Perry have cheated. If Bonds were a little child I may see that logic, but at the age of 40, I can't excuse that type of irrational thought.

On the topic of cheating there is a hierarchy here What Perry did is equivalent to scuffing the ball or putting too much pine tar on your bat it will get you thrown out of a game if your caught but its not that huge of a deal. Bonds is the second level he altered his body to game more fame and money. And for that he shouldnt be allowed in the hall. The hall of fame should be an example of all the good in baseball this guy is a cancer. The third level is Rose. What he did is worse then Bonds. He messed with the integrity of the game of baseball. When Bonds started cheating it wasnt illegal although immoral. Rose went against one of the staunchest rules in the game of baseball. He was a manager and he bet on baseball that destroys the integrity of the sport and if an example had not been made of him it could have sent the sport I love back decades. Neither Bonds or Rose and in that matter McGwire or Sosa deserves to ever step foot in the HOF unless he pays the 20 bucks or so for a ticket

I think the worst arguement in Bonds's favor is "steriods weren't deemed illegal by mlb so he wasn't cheating." Steriods are illegal period whether mlb thinks so or not. It's like saying a player finds he gains a mental rush and plays better if he kills someone before a game, buts its ok because mlb doesn't state in the rule book you cant kill someone before a game. It's a definate federal crime, but as long as mlb doesn't address it... Why the hell does everyone think the feds raided balco in the first place, because steriods are illegal.

I don't agree with the following, but you could make the argument:

Steroids were not banned by baseball. They had no punishment policy in place. They were illegal.

There are other things that are illegal, but baseball doesn't punish them either, usually (or at least doesn't have standard punishment procedures in place) - e.g. drunk driving.

Obviously driving drunk doesn't give you an unfair advantage in baseball, but the point is that just because something is illegal doesn't AUTOMATICALLY make it subject for persecution in baseball.

Barry Bonds is a joke and a racist, according to the book 'Game of Shadows', I want Barry Bonds to be put in the same boat as Pete Rose, yanked of the single season home run record and forced to retire from baseball, and not allowed into the Hall of Fame.

And to make things perfectly clear, the same goes to Mark McGwire.

Good article by Mike Lupica today...he basically begs Selig to conduct a formal investigation ala Pete Rose.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/story/397870p-337168c.html

As explosive as this new book on Bonds' use of steroids is, ESPN did an expose on steroid use in basebal titled "Who Knew" sometime in 2005 (I first read in Nov 05). This article makes it painfully clear that just about everyone knew and just about everyone stuck their heads in the sand. Here's the link to it.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=steroids&num=1

Sammy is a piece of sh*t fraud! Everyone ate him up during the '98 season, but by 1999, the team sucked and people went to the park pissing themselves everytime he hit a warning track ball. He had an awesome run but it's so obvious that all these guys(Raffy,Sammy,McGwire,Finley,Brady Anderson,Bonds,Luis Gonzalez,etc) were on the juice it's a shame!

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