Unfounded Soriano Mets Rumor

Alright, here's a new one.  I can't really verify the source, but it still seems ripe for discussion.

Word is that the Mets could send Xavier Nady, John Maine, and Jeff Keppinger to the Nationals for Alfonso Soriano, Bill Bray, and Jason Bergmann.  Let's discuss.

Could the Mets do without Nady?  Absolutely.  Wright doesn't need much time off, and Franco can spell Delgado.  I'm of the opinion that Victor Diaz does not need a platoon partner in right field.  Nady would be more useful for Washington.  He could handle right field for three months while Jose Guillen is out, and Matt LeCroy could spend more time backing up Brian Schneider than Nick Johnson.  Plus, Nady could take over first base in 2007 if Johnson leaves via free agency.

I'm not sure that John Maine figures into the Mets' rotation plans.  He didn't make their depth chart, which goes eight-deep on starting pitchers.  Maine already has Triple A experience and could probably manage a mid-4 ERA pitching half his games in RFK.  That'd be a more adequate replacement for Brian Lawrence than some sort of Drese/Rauch experiment.

Jeff Keppinger has most certainly been passed by Anderson Hernandez on the Mets' 2B depth chart, and so the Mets wouldn't really need him even if they let Soriano walk after 2006.  Keppinger is probably best served as a utility man anyway, and he'd get a decent opportunity backing up Jose Vidro.  Brendan Harris might already fill this role for the Nats, but he's no sure thing.

To recap:  the Nationals would receive a borderline backup in Nady, a back-rotation starter in Maine, and a utility infielder in Keppinger.  It's quantity over quality, but Bowden is between a rock and a hard place here with Soriano.

Speaking of which, Soriano would fit nicely into the Latino core Omar Minaya is building.  I don't know whether the Mets would try to keep him long-term, but even a player with his flaws is a good pickup for the cost outlined here.

College product Bill Bray isn't too far off from being a Major League setup man.  I'm not so sure Bowden would need to give him up in this deal.  It seems to tip the scales too far towards the Mets.

Likewise with Bergmann, who had a nice year last year and figured to slot into the Nats' big league bullpen.  That's two valuable relievers going to New York, and it seems like too much.

Admittedly the Nationals are giving up a lot of value for some questionable prospects.  On the other hand, Bowden's trade for Soriano is Exhibit A that he is capable of making trades that do not favor the his team at all.

The Biggest Games. The Best Tickets. StubHub.com

Comments

[RumorMonger]

Upon further review, I will admit that Nady would be very useful as a backup for the fragile Floyd when he's not platooning with Diaz.

[Bdid]

Wow, where did this one come from? I'm a Mets fan, and have been on all the boards...no one has said anything about this. I know people have mentioned it in "wishful trades" but never as rumor. I'd love it!

I've heard Diaz and Bannister's names mentioned at WFAN for Soriano alone. But this deal? Bowden should be hung if he made it.

[john]

as long as we do not give up any young promising players, I am O.K. with this

And FYI, Jeff Keppinger injured his back last week. They were talking about sending him to NY for an MRI. Don't know if that happened, but he hasn't been able to practce since then.

[Anthony]

Do not trade Nady. He's going to have a great year, I can feel it.

[JK47]

A lineup with Reyes, Soriano and VIctor Diaz has way too many "easy outs" in it. I'm a Mets fan and I'd only like this trade if Milledge made the team and played RF. Those three players will put up 75 walks and 350 strikeouts if they play full time.

My guess is that Milledge is a better player than Diaz right now, but the Mets will probably start Milledge in AAA no matter how much he lights up spring training.

[Alex the Mets fan]

hey guys

[Erik]

"Speaking of which, Soriano would fit nicely into the Latino core Omar Minaya is building."

I have a problem with much of what you wrote. Where do I begin?

1. Minaya isn't building a latino team. It's ignorant to suggest this. His core is "Wright, Reyes, Milledge." That ain't all latino... i've had to listen to these accusations on the FAN for months. Ain't nothing you can bring up that I haven't heard.

2. The Mets don't like Soriano. Willie hates his attitude (from Yankees experience) and now we see why.

3. The Mets really want to give Nady a shot. Diaz is a flake and has attitude problems of his own.

4. The Mets don't want a no glove second baseman. With Delgado at first, range is immportant. Obviously with AH, that precludes a trade for Soriano.

5. If Soriano IS coming to the Mets, the Nats would have to take Matsui's 8M. Minaya is not going to add 10M of salary, thus handcuffing him for a possible mid-season trade for pitching.

Et Cetera... et cetera.

[steven]

"even a player with his flaws is a good pickup for the cost outlined here"

exactly why this deal is unlikely to happen. when has soriano ever been traded for a reasonable cost.

[RumorMonger]

1. With 15 guys on the 40 man being Latino, I think it's safe to say Omar leans that way. Whether that's his core you can argue, probably a bad choice of word. But Omar likes Latino players is the point.

2. Yes they do. They've tried to acquire him many a time.

3. I dunno, but most can see he's not a full-timer.

4. OK, I guess.

5. Someone would have to take Matsui's salary, though not necessarily the Nats. He could even go back to Japan. But yeah, this may be the biggest sticking point. I'm just reporting a rumor dude.

6. I know you are going to argue all of these points, but I don't have the time this weekend.

[Professor Snooty McKnowitall]

This is a terrible idea. Anderson Hernandez is ready to take over at second and offers something that Soriano doesn't – great defense. If the Mets get Soriano, they will have the worst defensive right side of the infield in the league. Not to mention a very strikout prone lineup.

[Erik]

1. I fervently disagree. He doesn't "lean" that way. Those are the best players available. He could have signed Molina or Hernandez, but chose to trade for LoDuca. Delgado, Beltran, Pedro... all the best players available.

Are we going to move into Jose Valentin next?

2. Ibid.

3-6. Bah. That's no fun!

[A Big Mets Fan]

Look guys im going to give a very realistic scenario if the Mets do indeed aquire Soriano

If the Mets aquire Soriano for Nady and Maine, it could play two ways. The first way it could play out is it being disatrous. Soriano isnt the most reliable second baseman, defensively. I kno hes better then Matsui, but he still doesnt fit well. Where would we put him in the lineup???? He cant bat second becuase he strikes out way too much. Cant bat fifth because our best player (Wright) bats there. So where exactly could he fit? Or this could turn out beautifully and we win the world series.

Projected lineup with Soriano

Reyes
Lo Duca
Beltran
Delgado
Wright
Soriano
Floyd
Diaz

[Fred]

How can anyone say that Minaya isn't building a Latino core? Look at the players he has made moves for since he got there. And why is everyone up in arms when people say this? All everyone ever talks about is the lack of minorities in the front office. But once someone says anything the other way, it's racist.

[Non-racist-mets-fan]

Rumormonger, you're wrong. 15/40 players on the 40 man roster are latino - how far off is that from the general distribution of latino players in MLB? Minaya acquired Pedro Martinez because he was the best pitcher on the market; same goes for Carlos Beltran and Carlos Delgado. Before then, he acquired Mientkewiecz to play 1b (certainly not Latino). Incidentally, Billy Wagner, Minaya's ONLY big signing of the season, is not Latino. Minaya invited Bret Boone to camp to compete for a 2b job, acquired Xavier Nady, Maine, and Paul LoDuca. If a player is more willing to come to the Mets because of Minaya, then all for the better. Nothing Minaya has done supports the notion that he's building a latino team. Your point has no merit and completely ignores reality. Good day, sir.

[Erik]

"All everyone ever talks about is the lack of minorities in the front office. But once someone says anything the other way, it's racist."

I am not acusing Monger or anyone else of racism. There's a difference between racism and ignorance.

[Fred]

Minaya had the same mindset in Montreal as well. Can't argue with the logic since Latino ballplayers, on the whole, are very good. But to say that he doesn't slant that way is acting blind.

And "non-racist", Nady is of Hispanic origin and they acquired Maine as a throw in with Julio. So I wouldn't use those examples.

[Erik]

"Can't argue with the logic since Latino ballplayers, on the whole, are very good."

Um... no. You didn't just generalize based on race, did you?

*leaves before he says something he regrets*

Do you hear there are not enough whites on a team? Do you hear people complaining there are too many Czechs on the Rangers? It's about talent.

I hate the trade for Jorge Julio because Jorge Julio stinks. The racial composition of a team doesn't matter so long as they win! End of story. To accuse Minaya of favoritism is ludicrous and ignorant. That's basically accusing him of selling the Mets short. Might he get the BEST latin players available? Yes. But guess what? If they were white and they were the best, he'd get them instead.

[Ed]

Personally, I think a bigger aspect of Minaya's Mets facelift is the $$$ he's throwing at older ballplayers. No one can blame him for the Beltran bust last year, but I think the amount of cash given to Wagner, Pedro and $ taken on in the Delgado trade could come back to haunt him. These guys are getting older and haven't threatened Ripken's record during their careers.

[John]

This deal works on every level. The Nationals address their Starting Pitching and OUtfield defeciencies, provide back up options at two key injury prone positions - First and Second Base, and deal from a position of strength and dead weight. Soriano is Not going to play for Washington this season, and there is virtually no market for the guy. This deal would be a steal for Bowden at this stage in the game. The Mets fill a position of need since 2 seasons ago at Second base with a prolific offensive force, and address a potentially very weak bullpen. It works all the way around. And Lo DUCA IS NOT BATTING SECOND!!! World Series Line-up -

1)SS - Jose Reyes
2)CF - Carlos Beltran
3)3B - David Wright
4)1B - Carlos Delgado
5)2B - Alfonso Soriano
6)LF - Cliff Floyd
7)RF - Victor Diaz
8)C - Paul Lo Duca

And stop with that racial BS...it's about aquiring the best team...Soriano accomplishes that. Then, what I'd like to see after this deal completed is for the Mets to go after Oliver Perez or Brad Penny using Victor Zambrano as a key piece in the trade.

[Ed]

Yep...the great Victor Zambrano is going to get you a young, possible (being the key word) #1 in Perez or a proven capable starter in Penny. Maybe Pitt will throw in some other players to score Zambrano. Sorry John, that ain't happening.

[Irwin]

Delgado has said that he was turned off to signing with the Mets as a free agent prior to '05 because Minaya tried to play to him fitting in with the teams Latino identity. It is stories like that which fuel talk of Minaya being biased for Latinos.

For those who forget, IF this went thru, looks like this for the Nats overall:

Nats get:
Xavier Nady
John Maine
Jeff Keppinger

Nats lose:
Brad Wilkerson
Termmel Sledge
Armando Galarraga
Bill Bray
Jason Bergmann

Way to go Bowden!

[JK47]

"No one can blame him for the Beltran bust last year, but I think the amount of cash given to Wagner, Pedro and $ taken on in the Delgado trade could come back to haunt him. These guys are getting older and haven't threatened Ripken's record during their careers."

Pedro was a great signing. The whole franchise jumped up a step in quality when Pedro was signed. For all the talk about Pedro being injury-prone, he has gone 186 innings or more every year of his career except one. He's pitched 217 innings each of the last two years. And he is such a clever pitcher, he is still very effective without his "A" stuff.

Wagner has missed parts of two seasons, 2000 and 2004. But he has been healthy every other season of his career since his rookie year in 1996.

Delgado has been pretty durable too-- he missed 34 games in 2004, but other than that he's pretty much always in the lineup. He racks up 600+ plate appearances every year like clockwork.

Yes, those guys are all turning 34 this season, but look at their "most similar" players according to baseballreference.com:

Delgado = Willie McCovey
Pedro = Roger Clemens
Wagner = Mariano Rivera

If you get a chance to bring in Willie McCovey, Roger Clemens and Mariano Rivera, all at age 34, you go for it. Delgado, Martinez and Wagner have produced at such high levels that they can survive a dropoff and still be outstanding.

I get what you're saying-- sure, acquiring those players COULD come back to haunt him. But you gotta roll the dice if you want to win.

[Ed]

Agreed JK, but bringing in multiple players of their age and recent history is at least a little scary. Delgado had the DH to fall back on while in Tor and this is about projecting the future. I could see each of these guys missing some time. But Minaya seems hell bent on making this team the next NYY, so money might not make a difference.

[John]

Well Edvard, Perez and his unspectacular 5.85 ERA last year with what, 4 quality starts didn't really do much to insight #1 type talk last year. In fact, a term used by their mailbag reporter was "maddeningly inconsistent" in regards to Perez. With 4 other question marks in their rotation a little consistency wouldn't hurt. Duke and Maholm although had good debuts are largely unknowns. Edwin Jackson came out firing three years ago, and then what? Nothin. Same applies here in regards to Duke and Maholm. Wells was the worst starter in the Majors last year, they've got no fifth starter worth mentioning, and Perez after his 5.85 ERA is a HUGE question mark.

METS GET - Oliver Perez, Mike Gonzalez

PIRATES GET - Victor Zambrano, Carlos Gomez, Anderson Hernandez, Duaner Sanchez

Pittsburgh gets a Closer who converted 8 of 8 opportunities last year, and still have Marte and Grabow for lefty relief. They could slot in Anderson Hernandez at Second and slide Castillo over to Third and get a true lead-off hitter. Gomez has uber potential, and as was stated, Zambrano brings that uncertain rotation consistency. Consistency that could concieveably save them from a 100 loss season and maybe even save Littlefield his job.

[RumorMonger]

A two year deal for Franco? May have nothing to do with race but it's not because he was the best available player.

[omar]

jk47 omar cares about money y u think cameron gone

[omar]

jk47 omar cares about money y u think cameron gone

[Ed]

Wait...Oliver Perez AND Mike Gonzalez? Pitt should probably throw in Duke as well. Sorry guys, but small market teams need younger players, and Zambrano doesn't really fit the bill. I love when the large market fans treat the smaller markets like their own personal minor leagues.

[steven]

i thought minaya brought up an interesting point when questioned about all the latino players he was picking up. earlier this offseason he said i dont see you guys asking other GMs that question. basically pointing the finger at some teams that traditionally were pretty white. i think i read somewhere that this had been a question for a team like the astros who seemed to go after white players. im not saying i neccesarily agree with either side on that one but i find it really hard to fault minaya for using whatever tools he has to try and get the players he wants. a gm is supposed to play all his cards and if teh race card is one of them its hard to say he cant use it if he thinks it works. personally i think its blown out of proportion. pedro is a player any team would have loved to sign so why is his ethnicity even relevant. same thing for beltran. this year he drops a ton of money on wagner. by some peoples logic he would have jsut saved that money and tryed something like bailing urbina out of jail. the deal he got for delgado was one that filled a big need for his team. these are solid baseball moves regardless of race. so someone brings up an afterthought like julio as evidence. by that logic i could draw some really off base conclusionsabout a lot of teams in baseball just by pointing to some extra bullpen pickups that might not make the most sense. mets arent the only team to do something like that so why is it that significant.

[Kyle]

The racist talk is BS. The league is 30% hispanic give or take a lil bit. The Mets are 38% hispanic. They have gone out and gotten the best players. And if Minaya has used his spanish heritage as an advantage to get players to New York good for him. The GM's job is to do everything in his power to put the best team possible on the field every day. I bet if there was a great jewish outfielder available Theo would be talking to him about bar mitzvah's. You use the tools you have.

That being said the mets shouldn't get soriano he doesnt help them at all. What they need is pitching because theres is poor. Anderson Hernandez and Matsui will serve very well at second base. They just need a good glove there the lineup will produce plenty of runs.

There is no way Pittsburgh trades Oliver Perez. He had 200+ K's two seasons ago and now that Wells is probably gone for the season they need all the pitching they can get

[Erik]

"A two year deal for Franco? May have nothing to do with race but it's not because he was the best available player."

2 yrs@2.2M. He's a modest upgrade over Marlon Anderson as a PH and gives the team veteran leadership. You might not believe this (sarcasm) but this team will be ridiculously young next season. 3/4ths of our infield will be 23 years old by May.

Franco wouldn't have come for a one year deal.

I happen to LOVE the signing.

Now, should I analyze the Cubs roster and see how many players are white?

I have another question for you: Do you know the source of this "Omar has a preference for latin players" claim? If you did, you might blush.

I'm just saying... perception ain't reality.

[Erik]

Tim, I have nothing but respect for your baseball knowledge, but any claim originated from NYC sports talk radio (during a "dead" period in terms of news, I might add) should be taken with several tablespoons of salt.

These are the same people who thought Melky Cabrera for Carl Crawford had a chance of happening last year at the trade deadline when the Yanks needed a CF.

Either way... we cool.

[RumorMonger]

We definitely cool Erik, but I don't listen to NYC talk radio at all. I live in the Chicago area.

[Erik]

If you are so inclined, you can hear an interview of Omar Minaya by THE very person who started this rigamarole (Christopher "Mad Dog" Russo):

http://wfan.com/audioclips/local_audioclip_025190249.html

" I live in the Chicago area."
I envy you. I really do. At least your baseball fans don't boo a player during spring training...

[Ed]

Nice link Erik, but I live in the NY area and he brought that up b/c of an article in the Daily News that same day (as MD says). Minaya sounded extremely rattled during the interview. I wonder if he had any clue what was coming. Here's an interesting clip from an ESPN article, as the Expos were getting ready to play in Puerto Rico a few years ago.

"Once inside the ballpark, fans are expected to root for ... well, Latinos. The Expos themselves have four players of Puerto Rican descent and 14 Spanish-speaking players overall."

Now I beileve if Minaya puts a winning team on the field, no one can argue with his GM skills and motive behind the moves he has made. But if the Mets go in the tank, I think this will be a HUGE issue at some point, just b/c of the ruthless NY media.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/columns/klapisch_bob/1537587.html

[rotomusing]

Erik,

My take on Minaya's actions.

Note the quote is from the New York Times - not exactly a bastion of non-PC thought.

http://rotomusing.blogspot.com/2006/01/mets.html

[rotomusing]

For those who won't bother to click my link, here is the quote of the NYT article.

Since becoming general manager in September 2004, Minaya has been straightforward in proclaiming his desire to see the Mets become a popular brand name in Hispanic communities inside and outside of New York and for the Mets to be seen as a desirable destination for Hispanic stars.

[steven]

im not sure if it was your comment or not on the link but i dont see how anyone can claim minaya has no place running a team. especially when the main basis is moves made with the expos falling apart franchise. i disagree with a lot of his moves but you are going to have to spend some extra money to get top players to come to a last place team in the shadow of the yankees. he trades a lot of prospects away for a win now approach but that doesnt mean he is inept. its jsut a different philosophy. one that ken williams also tends to use and no one seems to be jumping on him right now.

[Ed]

I think Isiah is using that same philosophy in NY and he's headed towards the unemployment line.

[steven]

one of the many differences between isiah and minaya is that minayas spending has actaully improved the team.

[Ed]

I think that is yet to be determined. The growth of Wright and Reyes (pre-Minaya guys) had a lot to do with their improvement last season along with Pedro. Beltran was an obvious disaster. We'll see how much they improve this year.

[steven]

i just think when your team has serious needs at closer, 1b and catcher and you add wagner, delgado and lo duca in the same offseason its hard to call the gm a disaster. i will agree that these huge contracts on aging players and lack of prospects could blow up in the mets faces in teh following years but thats purely specualtion. on paper its hard not to acknowledge their improvements which is waht the gm is supposed to do.

[Ed]

I didn't call Minaya a disaster. Just the Beltran signing, which to-date has been a complete disaster. Delgado was already complaining about his elbow in today's paper. And there was a reason why Wagner and Pedro went to NY (hint: one more year than everyone else in baseball was offering). So maybe Minaya will look great when he comes out of this and running a franchise in a deep-pocketed city like NY is a lot easier to do when it comes to throwing money around. But when you start mortgaging the future like Minaya has been doing, it's usually a sign of desperation and not of someone in their 2nd year as GM.

[Kyle S]

Mets get Soriano
Nats get Kelly Johnson,John Thomson,John Maine, and Jeff Keppinger
Braves get Nady,and a (prospect or a little cash)