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Cubs Close On DeRosa?

According to Bruce Levine of ESPN Radio 1000, the Cubs are about to finalize a three-year contract with 2B/3B/RF Mark DeRosa.

DeRosa could start at second base and also play right field when the Cubs face a southpaw.

UPDATE: ESPN says the contract is for $13MM.  Jim Hendry has a tendency to buy high on guys...but I don't mind this move.

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3 years? seems alot to me

BTW, Why to DeRosa, not the 3 yrs sounding like a lot to Kramer.

Why 3 yrs?...it's Hendry's contract of choice.

Mark DeRosa signed with the Cubs today for 3 yrs 13 mil

Great news, Because he aint coming to Philly

Man. Cubs are sad. Do they think DeRosa is going to be a good option to play 2nd? From the looks of a three year deal, they're putting him as the leading candidate to take 2nd base next year.

I just hope the Cubs know one thing. Only once has he hit atleast 10 HR's, only once has he driven in more than 35 runs, and only once has his OBP gone over .350.

I hope they're not expecting offense from him. Defense you'll get, but he had one year of offense spark. The Cubs should have just stayed with an in-house option, but it looks like they're going to go out and get peices to the puzzles that aren't needed.

I could be a general manager. I'm 85% sure of this.

As a Phils fan, i'm happy about this deal. Mostly because that leaves only a few options for the phils. Either Gillick went way under the radar and posted for Iwamura or they are going for Helms. I don't know, neither sounds great to me. Trade for Joe Crede and lock up the position for the next half a decade.

3/13MM for this guy. No wonder us Cubs fans have been waiting 98 fricking years for a WS.

I think the move was decent but the price was WAY TOO HIGH... because now we dont have to see J Jones look like a fool batting against Lefties (Derosa in RF against southpaws).... I am not sure Derosa is a good option for a starter since last year was his first year as a starter... but who knows, look what Gary Matthews Jr did last year

3 years seems alot to me because-

1.He is a carrer .273 hitter
2.He has a carrer .331 obp
3.He hit .240 in 2005
He hit .239 in 2004
He hit .263 in 2003
4.He has only hit more then 10 homers once in his carrer
5.He is 31


That doesnt seem like a great track record for a three year deal despite hitting close to .300 this year

I guess i cant spell "career"

Typical Hendry move. Overpay for a guy at a position we do not need. Theroit would have been fine and saved us money. Oh well, the more things change the more they stay the same for the Cubs!

Much....much better than sticking with Theriot or Cedeno

"That doesnt seem like a great track record for a three year deal despite hitting close to .300 this year"

The ONLY positive I can see is that he isn't Neifi Perez! At least this time around Hendry overpaid for a guy that COULD be good for a year. I just don't want him starting every day!!!

Why wouldn't you want him starting everyday? Who would be a better option than him? Big improvement to 2B.

Is the price really that bad? I mean if Mark Loretta at $4MM is OK then this is OK. And Loretta has no range, can't play RF or 3B. Let's not get crazy about Theriot.

The move seems fine to me, unless the $4MM somehow prevents the Cubs from getting the three players they really need (SP, SP, CF).

NotJoeMorgan (to self): "I bet I know the answer to the DeRosa riddle without even looking. BABIP."
(checks his numbers; smiles contently to self)

AL Average 2006 BABIP: .308
DeRosa's 2006 BABIP: .348

This is getting too easy.

As a person that saw Loretta all last year, he has good range - MUCH better than what everyone said. If I had to make a pick, I'd take Loretta for two years than DeRosa for three. Simply not a smart move. Anyone that feels like this is a good move isn't seeing the big picture - He had ONE good season. If he puts the same numbers up next year that he did in 2006, than he is a bargain. But as far as I'm concerned, you're getting a good defensive 2B/RF that isn't going to hit. Anyone who thinks outwise, especially hopeful Cubs fans, are going to be deeply saddened.

If you were gonna get someone to start at second exclusively, Hendry should have looked at Cairo. He is better defensively, is a better hitter overall, has more speed and probably would have been cheaper. Throw him in the two hole and consider it done.

But, what do I know. Apparently not much since every time I post, it seems to spark something in people to become lawyers and pick apart everything I say. Which, by the way, is why I love this site.

Miguel Cairo is a better hitter than Mark Derosa? Miguel Cairo batting 2nd....on a major league team?

Hey guys-remember one of Lou's wishes was to bolster the bench. This doesn't hurt us in terms of his flexiblity of what position he can play (he can spell Aramis, 2B or Jacque).

Also-this could be a pre-cursor to dealing Cedeno/Theriot/Izturis, etc. Anyone think of that?

What does a too high BABIP mean? That he'll regress to average and his numbers will thus go down?

Cedeno/Theriot/Izturis would bring nothing in a trade

Pinella & Hendry have already repeatedly stated they want to add depth. This signing does not necessarily mean he is your everday 2nd basemen. He can play 6 different positions and is good protection in case of injury or inefectivness by izturis/theriot/cedeno and also allows to use one of those 3 in a trade.

For the money Hendry just spent on DeRosa... I would take Cairo for the 700,000 to 1MM over DeRosa's new 3 year 13MM contract. Comparatively speaking you'd be nuts not too.

He's a better version of Chone Figgins

The problem with that is, you dont spend over 4 million a year on a guy who is going to get spot starting duty at second against lefties and be a pinch hitter or whatever. If that's what you were aiming for, you should have gone elsewhere.

true - tells you how despearte Hendry is especially to a player willing to sign early. The longer the winter goes the more ridiculous the contracts usually get, so maybe he felt like this will end up being a good signing - similar to Howry & Eyre last year.

The thing about Cairo is...sure he would be much cheaper....but the value factor only comes in when you're getting a good guy for cheap. Cairo is worth about 1mm a year because he plays like a 1mm a year ballplayer.

I will say this... I am estatic the Phillies didn't pay DeRosa the money the Cubs did. Because he doesn't deserve more money than Chase Utley and Ryan Howard put together. As for Cairo, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Comparitively speaking, if you think DeRosa is a better deal at 4.33MM a year over the 1MM a year Cairo would get, that's what you believe.

"What does a too high BABIP mean? That he'll regress to average and his numbers will thus go down?"

Exactly. With a few odd exceptions (noteably Jeter and, to this point, Miguel Cabrera), BABIP isn't a sustainable stat. Pujols and David Ortiz were both below league average this year. Its a nice way to see who may have been a little lucky each year.

I'll be copy-pasting this when Gary Matthews Jr. gets 4Y$30MM.

Utley and Howard still got rookie contracts.....


and I honestly would rather have every 2B on the Cubs roster Double A and up than Miguel Cairo

What is BABIP anyway? I need to learn something new everyday. Educate me Not Joe Morgan.

BABIP from wikipedia

n baseball statistics, Batting average on balls in play (abbreviated BABIP) is a statistic measuring the percentage of balls that are not home runs, strikeouts, or bases on balls that the batter is credited with a hit on. BABIP is commonly used in sabermetric analysis, as a consistently high or low BABIP is hard to maintain. Therefore, BABIP can be used to spot fluky seasons by baseball players, as those whose BABIPs are extremely high can often be expected to regress in the following season, and those players whose BABIPs are extremely low can often be expected to improve in the following season. The formula for BABIP is (H-HR)/(AB-K-HR).

Im not making a case that the Cubs should have signed Miguel Cairo. I'm simply stating that he would have more cost effective and economically sound for the Cubs. I probably would have stayed in house and let Ryan Theriot start at second. Which is probably why I think this deal is so bad for the Cubs. It gives them flexibility on the diamond, but at what cost. They overpayed for a journeyman utility guy that had a career year with, brace yourself, 13 homers and a .297 BA. Those numbers aren't going to plateau either. He will most likely decline.

BABIP means batting average on balls in play. So its a percentage of how many hits someone gets JUST out of the balls they HIT (ie: not strikeouts, etc). If someone's babip is unusually high, it means it could be luck, so in the same number of "making contact" the ball could randomly find its way to a fielder.

I thought BABIP was more controllable by hitters than pitchers.

DeRosa doesn't need to hit .296 to be useful though.

Thank you Laputian, I have learned something new for the day.

I mean, we don't think all batted balls by most hitters are random, do we? Doesn't LD% come into play here?

Batting average on balls in play.

(H-HR)/(AB-HR-SO)

Example:
Ryan Howard hit .313 last year but I'd almost guarantee he dips below that in 2007 because his BABIP was an insanely high .363 (NL average was .301). Pujols, on the flip side, hit .331 despite a below average BABIP of .294. In a 'normal' season, Pujols actually should have hit a little higher.

For the stars its not always that useful, but when you see a guy like Derosa or Matthews Jr. have a completely out of character year, its a nice place to look.

I think LD % comes into play for a contact hitter. Take a guy like Placido Polanco, he never strikes out. So, his LD% will determine how well he hits the ball, since he hits the ball most of the time anyway. His outs are going to be from hitting the ball and not striking out. A guy like Soriano or Howard is a little different. Howard and Soriano strike out a ton, but when they hit the ball it usually goes to the moon and back. They aren't exactly hitting one hoppers to the pitcher.

Roto, LD% definitely comes into play and we could start adding in speed factor and figuring out xBA. I didn't mean to imply every single player should have a league average BABIP; just that it can be used as a benchmark way of saying "this is way out of line with the norm".

We're not a small market team. Signing Derosa instead of starting Theriot or Cedeno (2 worse players) isn't going to hinder the Cubs to go out and sign someone else.

Well there goes Soriano/C. Lee...another offseason wasted by the shitty cubs managment

I like the signing-it gives us flexibility as he can play several positions and he hit .296 with 13 HR, 74 RBI and 40 doubles last year. .352 against lefties. Good signing as an option at 2B, plus he can spell Jacque Jones against lefty starters, as well as play 2B and spell Aramis at 3B when he needs an off day.

The only thing I don't like is that it appears Theriot won't get a shot.

Why does that mean no to Soriano and C-Lee?

It means that C-Lee is probably out of the picture if we plan on getting a good #2 pitcher and a good #4 pitcher cause that will be a combined 15-20 million just there. We only have 32 million total available right now. So C-Lee is out of the picture for sure. The only option we have for those to now is if we buy pitchers on the low end and play Soriano in center.

I seriously doubt getting a 4 mil a year 2B will stop the Cubs from getting anyone. They're raising payroll a considerable amount and Soriano has been tabbed as a #1 priority.

I am Jays fan. I heard that Ted Lilly is being hotly pursued by the Cubs and the Yankees...and thats from our number 1 Jays guy.

" the New York Yankees and Chicago Cubs - have zeroed in on Blue Jays left-hander Ted Lilly."

I hope I'm wrong, but did I hear someone say that DeRosa is a Chone Figgons but better? Hopefully you simply mean he can play 2nd, 3rd, SS, RF, and LF, because that is where everything between the two ends. Chone plays all those positions and CF, and steals about 30-60 bases a year. I think if I had to pick one of the two, I'll take the guy that will give you a better chance to win; And that is the guy that has had more than ONE good season in his career.

Soriano is going to go for 17MM a year plus... DeRosa at 4.33 a year... 21.33 that leaves 10.66 for 2 pitchers.... Thats if Soriano is signed at the lower end of the projections.... 5MM per pitcher isnt going to get you very far in this market

i agree with what your saying but your numbers are a little off...the cubs had 35 to work with not 32...32 was with the derosa contract and i guess i was a little of on that.

Excellent post Guardo. The fact that someone said DeRosa is better than Figgons is laughable. Sure DeRosa is Chone Figgons, only way way worse. I think DeRosa has more of Mark Grudzielanek feel than that of Chone Figgons.

I'm going to go ahead and put the whole Ryan Theriot thing to a rest. Anyone who thinks this guy can be a regular in the bigs is out of their mind. Look at Theriot's numbers at AAA vs. his cup of coffee in the bigs:

AAA- 280 ABs .304/.367/.379(!) 16 XBH's- NO HOMERS

MLB- 134 ABs .328/.412/.522 17 XBH's- 3 Homers

The bottome line: Theriot hit WAY OVER HIS HEAD in his 134 ABs in the bigs. This guy MIGHT be a future utility man. Anyone who thinks he would even be passable as a starter is absolutely dreaming. Bringing in DeRosa means he can play 2nd until Patterson is ready, then he can be a good bench player, especially by spelling Jones in right should the Cubs choose to keep him for the remaining two years on his deal.

Plus: Who cares how much he costs! We're the Cubs, we have plenty of money. For years everyone whines that the Cubs don't spend enough, then people whine we spend too much. The bottom line is the Cubs got a player who can help.

thenuge....excellent post

I would rather have a guy who is coming off a very good season in his 1st year starting everyday over Chone Figgins...who has gotten progressively worse the past 3 seasons and is a Juan Pierre clone with more gloves.

I'd rather give JD Drew about 13 mil a year to play CF and sign Kei Igawa and Schmidt/Zito/Lilly for that #2 hole of the rotation. Not sure if the numbers would fit...but I'd love that offseason.

So you would rather have a guy that has had ONE season in which he posted up good numbers, as opposed to Chone? You say he's progressively worse the last three season, but I think his 2005 performance was better than 2004, even though the batting average dipped a tiny bit. And even if his batting average went a little south in 2006, you're talking about a UTILITY guy that was about to steal over 60 bases.

I'm sorry, but you're nuts if you want a guy that had his ONE breakout season in his walk year; He's got nowhere to go but down, just like Gary Matthews Jr.

Oh, and by the way - DeRosa played in over 100 games two other times other than 2006, and check out his wonderful numbers. If you're expecting anything, you've got a few issues going on.

Oh, and thenuge, by the way, you say people whine that the Cubs don't spend money, and when they do spend it, they complain even more - I think Cubs fans simply want the Cubs to spend money on the RIGHT players - They spent the money on the right player in Aramis Ramirez, spending 13 million over a three year commitment to a guy with one good season is not exactly what the Cubs want to see have happen. I think most Cubs would rather have the inhouse solutions on there team rather than waste 13 million on DeRosa, when that money could be better spent for a number 4 starter.

Derosa who has had one good season over Chone Figgins who has had no good seasons....yes..I would rather have that...

"I think most Cubs would rather have the inhouse solutions on there team rather than waste 13 million on DeRosa, when that money could be better spent for a number 4 starter."

How about spending the money to get a huge upgrade at 2B AND signing a good #4 starter. They have the money to do both, which is what the point of thenuge's post.

I'm sure the Cubs final payroll will be somewhat flexible by more than 4 million, which is similar to when Hendry got the OK to sign Maddux in '04. Signing DeRosa to a 4 mil a year deal does not inhibit the Cubs from improving at other positions....2B was an area in need of improvement and there are baseball people a lot more informed than we are that say DeRosa was probably better than Loretta, Adam Kennedy, R. Belliard...etc.

Hey Teetz,

Cubs spend the money on a huge upgrade at 2nd. They should do that. The point of thenuges post wasn't to suggest any of that. He was showing that DeRosa was an upgrade over the other options - Maybe that is true, but is a huge upgrade at 2nd? I'd call Kennedy, Loretta, or Iwamura a "huge upgrade" at 2nd base. DeRosa does nothing for me, and he's going to do nothing for the Cubs. I can't wait until June or July when anyone that believed DeRosa would do something good starts complaining that the GM "yet again" made a horrible signing.

Oh yes. Figgins has never had a good season. I completely agree with that. Oh wait, you're actually completely wrong. You would rather have a 31 year old guy that has had ONE good season in his ENTIRE major league career, in which he has had the ability to break out, since before 2006 he had two seasons of 100 + games played, over a 28 year old that completely changes the way a team attacks the Angels? He's a game changer - No matter what base he is on, he makse the pitcher think too much. When he's at the plate, you better believe those infielders are worried and waiting for the bunt, and then he drops puts it right up the middle. He's a guy that has stolen atleast 30 bases three straight seasons, including over 60 in 2005. He hits triples, he hits some HR's, he drives in some runs, and he gets atleast 160 hits.

Yeah. I must be extremely stupid to believe that a 31 year old utlity player getting paid 13 million over 3 years with amazingly suspect offense is not as good of an investment as a 28 year old with amazing wheels. Ha.

"Why wouldn't you want him starting everyday? Who would be a better option than him? Big improvement to 2B."

I wouldn't have minded him had we not had anyone already on the roster at that position. But we have THREE guys there! Hendry went through this same crap last season just stock piling bad middle infielders! Theroit is more then capable of handling the position and if he can't then we have Cedeno or Patterson. But DeRosa is the kind of guy Hendry loves! Someone that can play all over the place but can't play any one position very well. And I would agree that if he was looking at DeRosa as a bench guy he wouldn't have paid him 13 million over 3 years.

I think I would rather have the Kennedys and the Loretta Belliard types over DeRosa. He's been a good bench guy but never started full time before. If they plan on him being a platoon utility guy then they got the right guy but they overpaid him to do it.
If they wanted a starter, I think the other guys would probably be better suited but I'll admit none wow me. I think you wait until everyone who is looking at 2b signs one and you take the last guy standing. Probably for the least amount of buck and not wildly better or worse then the others.

RE: Figgins
He had a down year but was coming off a career year. He's alot like Juan Pierre if you add power and versatility.

Wow...I really thought people were going away from the whole "speed kills" excuse for guys who can't hit very well. Derosa had 100 points on Figgins OPS. Because Figgins steals bases you say?.....He kills rallies as much as he starts them because he gets caught stealing at a Juan Pierre-esque clip.

Regardless....back onto topic. Did anybody notice the similarities between Loretta, Belliard, and Kennedy. All of these are guys who are coming off bad seasons. Sure they've had good seasons before but there might be a reason why they sucked last year.....maybe they aren't very good or are getting worse?

At such a low rated position, I don't mind taking a chance on DeRosa because he put up very good numbers last season and I certainly would rather take a chance on him than on guys who have really scary looking 3 year trends.

WAIT A MINUTE. Roto, I took the numbers from your old Cubs post:

C - Michael Barrett - $3MM
C - Geovany Soto - $0.38MM
1B - Derrek Lee - $13MM
2B - Ronny Cedeno - $0.38MM/Ryan Theriot - $0.38MM
SS - Cesar Izturis - $4.15MM
3B -
IF - Freddie Bynum - $0.38MM
LF - Matt Murton - $0.38MM
CF -
RF - Jacque Jones - $4MM
OF - Angel Pagan - $0.38MM

SP - Carlos Zambrano - $6.5MM
SP -
SP - Rich Hill - $0.38MM
SP -
SP - Wade Miller - $1.5MM
SP - Mark Prior - $3.65MM
SP - Sean Marshall - $0.38MM

RP - Ryan Dempster - $5MM
RP - Bob Howry - $4MM
RP - Scott Eyre - $3.5MM
RP - Will Ohman - $0.61MM
RP - Mike Wuertz - $0.38MM
RP - David Aardsma - $0.38MM
RP - Roberto Novova - $0.38MM

Buyouts:

RP - Kerry Wood - $3MM

Injured players:

RP - Glendon Rusch - $3.25MM

Add in 1.75MM for Wood, $15MM for Aramis, and 4.33MM for DeRosa, and we are at a total of $80.42MM next year (if you don't include incentives for Wood/Miller)

That leaves $40MM for a 2 SP and a CF if we go to $120MM.

My vote is Drew, Igawa and Lilly/Padilla for $40MM.

Or, let's trade for Jason Jennings and get Soriano and Igawa/Lilly/Padilla.

Any chance we can dump Dempster's $5MM? I suppose they won't do that until Wood proves healthy. I'd take the chance that Howry could close, though to dump Dempster's $5MM and trade him somewhere.

Figgins and DeRosa have the same career OPS. Derosa had 812 in career year while Figgins had a full time career low this year. They are actually quite close. Trade off speed for power really.

The FA 2B are a pickem in my opinion but DeRosa has 1 career year in a contract year in Texas. So he certainly is a wildcard. Could continue to be that productive given full time. Or could be flash in the pan like his BABIP suggests.

It's a risky contract, 3 years for a guy that had one good year at the age of 30? let's not start with that he didn't even play that much 2B in his career.

We shall see i guess, but thsi one has a big potential to go bad.

I dont like the the move, DeRosa isnt a everyday starter, hes a utility guy. Plus now they have cedeno and theriot, they should have let them battle it out for 2nd.

Come on guys.....You saw how bad Ronny Cedeno was last year...both offensively and defensively he might have been the worst middle infielder in all of baseball. Average range, awful arm, and error prone. No patience at the plate whatsoever and no power.

So that makes you rely on Theriot who did well in his short time in the majors last season but didn't show much in his minor league career than shows he can be an everyday starter.

I'd much rather take the chance on DeRosa's whole 06 season than on Theriot's 134 at bats

An interesting note on BABIP, if you look at the very good numbers Aramis Ramirez put up this year and you use BABIP, he is looking to have an even more outstanding year as his BABIP was only .274, it should be interesting to see his number should he have a BABIP more around the league average of .301.

Also - DeRosa's BABIP was not inflated. It was supported by his LD%. More on that tomorrow.

Oh and one more comment, I don't think we can expect Derrek Lee to put up similar numbers as he did in 2005, for two reasons. One, obviously is that we don't know if he can put up those numbers after his wrist injury, and two is that he had a high BABIP in 2005 of .349, that's extremely high, but Ryan Howard also posted a very high BABIP of .363, so it should be interesting to see how those two produce.

I don't know. I've seen Lee completely morph from a good hitter to an elite hitter in the past two seasons. Even last year when he came back from injury...he still had good plate discipline and tremendous plate coverage...just didn't have the power because of the wrist injury. That is probably completely healed by now. I have no worries about D Lee producing a big year.

I hope your right, I'm just putting a number out there.

Bruce Levine was just on ESPN1000 in Chicago with a few interesting comments:

He spent time today with Pinella and Hendry and said they wanted DeRosa as a super-utility guy, but also as a possibility to be the starter at second should they not sign someone else (Lugo or Durham). He said that they don't like Theroit as a starter (I guess his numbers were too good last season?!), and that Cedeno is up a creek with no paddle.

He mentioned that they are serious about signing Sorriano and that 6 or 7 years at 17 million is within their budget.

As far as pitching he mentioned that Clevelend could be an interesting trade partner in that they need bullpen help which the Cubs have to offer. Cleveland could be willing to trade either Cliff Lee or Jake Westbrook. He said the Cubs have very little interest in Zito or Schmidt, but instead are targeting Padilla (#1), Lilly and Meche. And they are definitely going to bring in two starters either via trade or free agency.

He went on to say that this is the hardest he's seen Hendry work since the year he took over as GM. I don't think he meant that as insult, but Hendry deserves to be insulted for the way he has run this team thus far.

Yeah I hope so too, but I really see Lee putting up some hefty numbers for the next 2-3 years at least

The comment about not being interested in Schmidt is dissapointing to me, but it is nice that they could be getting Lee or Westbrook from the Indians. Also of the other three, I would most want to have Lilly, Meche and Padilla seem less reliable.

I think their disinterest in those two pitchers is more due to the fact that neither has any interest in pitching here. Schmidt seems to want to stay on the West coast. And so too does Zito....although Zito would probably sign with the Mets because of his fondness for their pitching coach.

I wouldn't mind Lee/Westbrook+Lilly/Padilla at all, that would be pretty good, especially if we can land Soriano

If it were up to me, here is what I would do if I were Jim Hendry.

Sign Alfonso Soriano, just pay him, I don't really care how much, it's not my money, I don't care if he's bad in the last year or two of his contract as long as we get 1 WORLD SERIES that's all that really matters. I think that would be enough for the offense.

Next, trade for Lee or Westbrook, this would give us a very good addition to our rotation.

Then you sign Lilly or Padilla, to be the #4.

Last move I would make, because after those moves we have 4 starters that we can actually count on, I would Sign Kei Igawa, and this would not count as one of our free agent signings because of the fact that he would not be a free agent. I think Igawa would be a good #5, and this would still let us sign another second basemen such as Loretta if we wanted to.
With this depth in pitching I believe that we could insert Prior for the weakest of the bunch when he is ready if he can stay healthy. Then the odd man out could be used as trade bait at the deadline if we needed someone. I personally really like Igawa and would like to see him on the Cubs.

Well that's my opinion. If you agree, fine. If you think I have terrible ideas, feel free to tell me that, and how you think the Cubs could better spend their money than how I have suggested, thanks guys.

Westbrook makes a little over 5 mil a year. Eyre makes about the same as Lee.

Do you think the Indians would trade one of them for either Howry or Eyre straight up? I'm not sure about the situation with the Indians payroll and young pitching, but Levine talks about relief help. If so I would definitely do the trade....the salaries would almost be a wash and that would give the Cubs a good 4th starter without sacrificing any payroll. Then they can get a guy like Justin Speier or Jamie Walker for about 3-4 mil a year. That would then give us about 35 mil for CF and #2 pitcher. Thats a good situation right there.

I have been hearing it would take Eyre/Howry + someone like Cedeno or Murton, I would definatly not want to trade Murton, but it looks like that's whats it's going to take. I am currently not really aware of what the Indians lack so I could not say if they would do the deal straight up. I guarentee though that they are working on something most likely today and over the next few days.

Cubsfan1654....

"Sign Alfonso Soriano, just pay him, I don't really care how much, it's not my money"

YES!...finally someone with some sense....who cares how much they spend for a superstar player? It's overpaying for horrible players that will kill you.

I also agree with the Igawa pickup along with two other starters. Igawa would make a deadly lefty reliever if Prior winds up being healthy and starting this year.

To add, I'm a big believer in Murton and would definatly not do the deal unless we were looking at signing Carlos Lee AND Brian Roberts/other lead off hitter

You want to sign Carlos Lee. Overpay Soriano it seems. Sign a 2nd Tier SP like Lilly. Sign Igawa. Trade for a CLE SP. And sign a leadoff hitter to play where?

That's a tall task. Just my take on a CLE trade. They need a LF and so if they like Murton I could definitely see him having to be involved. A middle RP for a SP doesn't look likely. And please overpay for Soriano so he doesn't become a Phillie.

Would Jason Schmidt take a 3 year $39 mil deal or, with the Matsuzaka re-dic deal....are all pitchers going to be out of this world? I dunno if Lilly is gonna cost 12 mil a year...I would rather pony an extra few mil to get Schmidt or Zito.

Thrillhouse I did not say I wanted to do all those things, I was only saying the whole lead off/ CLee thing IF they trade Murton.

In an ideal world, they sign Soriano, keep Murton, Trade Howry/Eyre+Cedeno for Lee/Westbrook, and then sign Lilly and Igawa. that's all I think the Cubs need to do, not that monsterous list that you posted.

That is 2 FA signings, 1 trade, and one Jap signing.

"And please overpay for Soriano so he doesn't become a Phillie."

Haha that sounds like a little kid that says..."well I didn't want that stupid toy anyways"...when he gets something cool taken away from him....sorry

Damn, roto nailed it with his estimate of 4MM for a 2nd baseman in that other Cubs post. I like DeRosa, but I have mixed feelings about this. If it's part of a bigger picture deal where we need to send some young guys somewhere else to pickup a(n) outfielder/CF/SP, then I see the chess pieces being played, but if we still have Izturis/Cedeno/Theriot and DeRosa in spring training, then I have to wonder 'what the hell?' You don't just pay a guy 4MM to hit against leties and back up infield spots. See John Mabry.

If we trade Murton for Lee/Westbrook....I would think Hendry would attach Dempster and not Howry/Eyre.

I just hope we keep Murton and give em trash, such as Cedeno or even Izturis, I almost like Theriot more than Izturis, but I don't know yet, because Theriot most likely was just playing way over his head last year

Ok well sorry Cubs but you should know you don't live in a ideal world by now. So the CLE trade is unnecessary which was the point of my post. You are signing Igawa Lilly to go with Z Hill Prior and Miller. That's 6 pitchers. Getting the 7th is condition on also getting Lee and a leadoff hitter. According to you and me. Monstrous list was 2 signings different.
I just don't think you can get a fairly cheap SP like Lee and WestB for a Howry type and trash.

And you definitely intimated overpaying Soriano. Phils were never in the race to get him anyways.

If we trade Murton....there are some nice short term solutions for left field...until Pie is ready. Delucci, Catalanatto, or who we never should have let leave...Moises Alou.

A million different scenarios are running through my head but one I like is.....

Murton and Dempster for Cliff Lee/Westbrook

Sign Soriano and Delucci...probably about 21 million total

Sign Schmidt for 13 mil per...(people always talk about how players want to be in certain regions and most of the time it doesn't come to fruition)...or put in Lilly, Zito, or Padilla (for less obviously)

Sign Justin Speier 4 mil

Puts the payroll right around $118-120....also extend Zambrano so make the payroll 123 or so...

Lineup Piniella would put out there would be...

Soriano CF
Delucci LF
Lee 1B
Aramis 3B
Jones RF
Barrett C
Derosa 2B
Izturis SS

Zambrano
Schmidt
Lee/Westbrook
Hill
Prior/Miller

Eyre
Ohman
Wuertz
Howry
Speier
Wood


Huge improvement on last year's team....

I'm not sure if the Murton/Dempster deal for Westbrook or Lee is realistic but maybe Shapiro values Murton highly...or Dempster...just my two cents

theriot could have done a descent job but then again he could have been this years version of cedeno, who did well at the end of last year then played poorly this year, so derosa is insurance...i would love 1 of the cleveland starters but not for murton, who hendry loves by the way so i don't think he'll trade him, maybe send them jones and eyre, then the japanese lefty could be used in the bullpen, i remember when comparisons were made between murton and paul molitor, i would hate to let him go if he turns out that good

To all, I don't count Miller and Prior as pitchers to be relied on, so really if he got Igawa Lilly thats only 4 pitchers, thats the reason why I did the Cle trade, + Soriano and were set.

he as in Jim Hendry

one of these years prior will have to put together a good season to earn his next contract, maybe this will be the first step, pitching the second half injury free

teetz i cant believe u said hes better then figgins. You must be smoking some crack

all the cubs fans in here trying to justify derosa being better. LOL. It must suck ruiting for the cubs and having to lie to yourself about these things. Hmm... all we need to do is sign 2 starting pitchers, carlos lee, soriano, brian roberts, and then trade for jake westbrook or cliff lee. HA. Derosa isnt even on figgins level. The guy who said our trading power for speed, ok u think what makes u feel better. derosa has 16 more career homers in about 4 more years in the bigs. Wow, that blows me away. derosa has a whopping 11 career SBs, figgins has 163 in about 3 and a half seasons. Figgins also swipes bags at over 75% succes rate. Figgins playes every position except catcher. Figgins has a higher career BA, more runs scored, and more rbis, out of the lead off spot, in much less big league time. Actually teetz your right, derosa is way batter, what was i thinking. ROFLMFAO

haha cubs fan all u want is one world series u say? HA
maybe u want to climb out of the fucking cellar before you start talking about winning the world series, and u also better keep steve bartman out of the crowd if the cubs ever do make it back to the playoffs
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

i don't think anyone is saying derosa is an all star or will even play like one, but he is a 9 year veteran that sweet lou will get the most out of, whether it's starting or not, he's a quality player and has been good enough to be in the majors this long, so he's doing something right...say what you will about hendry but he's has his good moments along with the bad, he stole lee away from the marlins for choi and he got ramirez from pittsburgh for bobby hill, plus getting nomar and murton for alex gonzalez, that should make up for getting robbed in the pierre and willis trades, so he still has the potential to pull off great trades, maybe for jennings or cliff lee

"It must suck ruiting for the cubs "

hahaah "ruiting"

Isn't there a limit on number of type a/b free agents you can sign...like...3?

DeRosa is a type B free agent. So can't we only sign 2 more free agents anyways?

I wouldn't say Derosa is better then Figgins. I said they aren't that different. All those counting stats you named are nice but Figgins has almost 400 more ABs then Derosa. I think he had a ridiculous career year no doubt. He has hit more HRs + doubles in less at bats. Though they slug about the same given the triples etc. So I stand by my statement that Derosa has more power then Figgins while clearly is much slower. love your spelling max

Don't pay any attention to nrmax-he knows about as much about baseball as Marge Schott. Nrmax-you should be worrying about your own team and its SP holes than ours.

Guys-the Cubs are not going to sign Schmidt or Zito-get over it. They're not coming to Chicago-they want to stay West Coast.

I like Igawa, Padilla and a trade for Westbrook/Lee. Hopefully we can send Cedeno/Wuertz or Cedeno/Dempster there. I like Wood (if healthy) or Howry to close.

Sign Soriano. Bolster the bench.

We're down to 2 SP and a CF. I'm not convinced Soriano should lead off, but that remains to be seen.

lol what team came within one game of the series with all those starting pitching holes. The cubs suck. Just face it and it will be easier when theyre out of striking distance by the end of june. AGAIN
im nt saying derosa sucks im saying hes not even close to chone figgins. Jballgame i dont know about baseball? your just like the rest of these morons. Jballgame: If only we can sign 4 good top of the line starters, 4 goot hitters, a good closer, a good gm , then we will win!

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