Jennings To Houston

Ken Rosenthal reports that the Astros have acquired Jason Jennings and Miguel Asencio from the Rockies. In return, the Rockies will get Willy Tavares, Jason Hirsh, and Taylor Buchholz.

Apparently Kenny Williams wasn't lying when he said there was nothing to the rumor that the White Sox were going to acquire Hirsh and company for Jon Garland.

Clearly, the Rockies made out like bandits on this deal.  I liken it to the trade that sent Adam Eaton to Texas last year.  The main difference is that the Astros did not a get an Otsuka-like player back in the deal. 

Comments

[Kyle]

Great deal for the rockies, poor one for the Astros

[SBE]

The sweet smell of desperation.

[Not Joe Morgan]

Tavares and Buchholz don't do much for me but unless there's an extension pending, I don't like giving up Hirsh for one year of Jennings (and I am a Jennings guy).

[nrmax88]

NJM i agree, i like jennings a lot, but it seems they paid to much for him

[astrosfanfromNY]

No doubt the 'Stros gave up way too much for an unproven #2.

[coolpapabell]

Stros fans must by beyond pissed! andto think they tought that the Garland deal was unfair.....I guess the Tim P decided to really show them a rip-off.

[astrosfanfromNY]

This is so Tim P style. Start to make some progress, sign a bat and solid number #3 pitcher, then deal away the farm.

[astrosfan]

No, the sweet smell of desperation would have to be the Cubs giving Jason Marquis 7 million a year.

The jury's out on this one for me - sure Hirsh could well become a great pitcher, but in the altitude of Colorado, who knows?!?

A good defensive leadoff man with a bad OBA, a oft-injured semi-prospect and a top prospect for a proven 2-3 starter is a pretty good deal as far as I'm concerned.

If the Astros can get Jennings signed, then this deal will work out fairly well for them. if Jennings ends up a rental only - the Rocks win this deal.

[allabouthephils]

I think Taverez will only get better... Buchholz doesn't really do much for me either... But Hirsh is a stud in the making.. It's amazing to me sometimes... I wonder what people are thinking when they ok these deals...

Dan O'Dowd- Ok they want to give us Tavarez and Buckholz for Jennings.. Ok let's see if those Houston idiots have started drinking yet... Ask for that Hirsh kid too...

Tim Purpura- Ummmm Hirsh too... Well, I guess... Drayton wants me to make a move ever since we pissed off Andy over a couple of bucks... Sure, as asks his bartender for another dry martini....

Dan O Dowd- Wow, I guess they have... thanks Tim...

[xxxJamesxxx]

Jennings is a #3 on bad teams, a #4 on most teams, and a #5 on good teams. This deal is AWFUL. Flat out awful.

[jerseyballer]

personally i would rather have garland than jennings, y wouldnt they have tried to go back to that trade

[astrosfan]

Granted, I'd much rather have Jon Garland for those three guys, but with the price of pitching this offseason, it's passable.

No one's saying Purpura is done dealing yet either. The Astros still have some decent trade chips to get a new CF and another starter.

[SBE]

A 127 ERA+ is a #3 on bad teams and a #5 on good teams?

[astrosfanfromNY]

Trade chips? Like who and for what?

[GoBoSox420]

You guys didnt want to give up those 2 pitchers for garland

NO WAY you can say you're happy about this.

[allabouthephils]

Im happy now.. maybe Houston will trade for Jon Lieber.. hahaha.....

It will like ordering at McDonalds....

We'll take a Brad Lidge and give me one of those Dan Wheeler's too....

Is that all ???

Ok that will be one Jon Lieber....

Are you guys' having a huge sale???

No we want to go out of business and we are idiots...Thanks and come again.....

[youalreadyknow]

LMAO the Astros just got fleeced...

Great move for the Rockies. They filled ALL of their offseason holes with this trade.

They get Hirsh, who will instantly replace Jennings (who is overrated to start with).
They get Buchholz to fill the #5 slot they were looking to fill this offseason.
They get Taveras to patrol centerfield and actually have a good enough lineup around him to make up for his weak bat and desperately need good defense in CF.

Win, win, win for the Rockies.

Lose, lose, lose for the Astros who seem to think they have a chance to win now, even though they have no chance in hell.

[striker]

Good move by Rockies. Bad move by Astros. Jennings had one good year.

[zubes007]

Garland is overrated, but.................

Why in the hell would they trade Hirsh, a guy is probably at least as good as Jennings, cheap and under contract for 5 years for a pending free agent????????????

[skye]

For the record, it's Willy Taveras, not Tavarez or Tavares. The difference being team, position, and possibly nationality.

[djskilbr]

Ya, this deal is utterly ridiculous. As a Twins fan, I really wanted Jennings, but the Stros just gave up essentially their Garza (Hirsh), their Scott Baker (Buchholz) and a MUCH better Denard Span (Taveras). Utterly ridiculous deal. Great move for the Rox. They are going places and still have a couple of nice chips to deal in Baker/Stewart/Atkins (2 of the 3).

[coolpapabell]

Its very uncomfortable to see Tim P try to sugar coat this deal right now in the press conference.

[coolpapabell]

Drayton seems like a nice guy, its sucks to see nice guys get jobbed. Well, at least he is rich, and owns a baseball team, he has that going for him.

[jmonahan7]

Wow, just wow. This was a steal for the Rox. Hirsh is already a 3 and Jennings has had to fight like a dog just to become a 3 and Hirsh already has the natural talent with less than a full ML season. Willy T. is fast as hell and greatly improves there outfield defense and gives them a good leadoff man. Buchholz has the potential to be just as good as Hirsh.

WOW I CANNOT BELIEVE THE ASTROS MADE THIS DEAL! WERE THEY LETTING SOME KID FROM THE SPECIAL ED. CLASS IN THE NEAREST HIGH SCHOOL BE GM FOR A DAY!?!?!?!?!

[beeniez]

Jennings is an innings eater. Which may explain his gigantic ass... terrible joke...

How good is Asencio? Was he just a throw-in?

[gregnoll]

"No, the sweet smell of desperation would have to be the Cubs giving Jason Marquis 7 million a year."

Actually Astrosfan, the moves aren't even remotely similiar. If Marquis bombs, all the Cubs are out is money, but if Jennings bombs or leaves next offseason, you gave up 3 guys for him. It looks like the Pierre trade last year, I bet the Cubs wish they had back those pitchers, they could have used them to get something much more substantial than one year of Juan Pierre. While the Marquis deal was pretty bad, it didn't cost the Cubs any prospects that could be used to upgrade other areas.

[Darin]

I'm a huge Astro fan, and on one side, hell yes the Astros go fleeced. But on the flip side, Willy Taveras is gone, so tonight I will do a dance. A That-god-the worst-offensive-CF-in-all of-baseball-is-no-longer an-option-for-Ol'-Scrap Iron-to-plug-in-on-an everday-basis-dance. That in itself is enough to stomach Jason Hirsh being gone.

[Gleebo]

As a Cubs fan its hard to ever be optimistic about our chances to win the division...but with the incredible shrinking pitching staff of the Cardinals and this fooleriffic deal the Cubs crap covered crap ball of a pitching staff is actually looking decent. Its not that the Cubs got better pitching(because that is not the case) its that the front runners to win the division just got weaker this offseason.

Then again the Cardinals could probably round out their existing rotation of TWO!! pitchers by throwing Gary Gaetti and Jose Oquendo into the rotation and still win the division by 10 games.

[KE632117]

This is a horrible trade. I cannot believe that they gave all three of them for Jennings. The Astros should have not given up Hirsh, or let Pettitte get away. As an Astros fan, this is so incredibly frustrating.

[Darin]

just dawned on me that maybe the Stros are ready for Troy Patton to pitch in the majors.

[jerseyballer]

well this could be good news for either the yanks or sox since houston may be so far out of the race early, roger may not want to go there

[Darin]

or maybe the Astros are ready to trade Troy Patton and Chris Burke to the Orioles for Rodrigo Lopez....either or.

[Gleebo]

Bad move by the stros? Yes, unexpected? No.

Remember this is the team that lost Freddy Garcia, Carlos Guillen, and John Ha!lama just to rent Randy Johnson for a month or so.

And since i know someone will say something...i know the Cubs make their hefty share of retarded deals.

[bobo]

Asencio is a Royals castoff. Enough said. Actually it looks like his one skill is keeping the ball in the park, so I'm surprised the Rockies didn't keep him and throw in somebody else.

The one good thing this does for Houston is that it apparently opens of CF for Burke before Biggio retires. You guys should be happy about that.

Also this is probably the first instance of someone who actually had some success in Colorado moving out. I don't think he'll be amazing in Houston, but I bet he'll be better than some people think. I think an ERA in the mid 3s is certainly possible. I expect both his K and BB rates to improve.

[Gleebo]

I think this move signals a possible return to Houston for Ken Caminiti.

Too soon? Couldn't help myself.

[Darin]

"Remember this is the team that lost Freddy Garcia, Carlos Guillen, and John Ha!lama just to rent Randy Johnson for a month or so."

Gerry Hunsicker trade, not Purpura. Should we bring up Zambrano for Kazmir when talking about deals Minya makes? And Johnson won 10 games after the all star break for the Astros...

[djskilbr]

Well, this is barnone the worst trade in the majors since Zambrano/Kazmir. Houston will be regretting this one for a LONG time.

[bravesrule14]

wow wow wow wow wow wow wow wow wow wow wow wow wow wow wow wow wow wow

didnt mean to have a wowathon there, but the stros got fleeced. the only good thing that could come out of this deal is if Jennings pans out and they sign him to an extension and ven at that this is tough to swallow.

[bravesrule14]

wow wow wow wow wow wow wow wow wow wow wow wow wow wow wow wow wow wow

didnt mean to have a wowathon there, but the stros got fleeced. the only good thing that could come out of this deal is if Jennings pans out and they sign him to an extension and ven at that this is tough to swallow.

[striker]

I wonder where Zito is leaning? And who will then grab their ankles for a Whitesox pitcher?

[melyrules]

the astros were toast anyway. It dosent help they traded 3 exellent rookies who will shine in the future for a inconsistant jennings. Clemens would be stupid to want to go back there. The only thing that the astros can do that will make me happy is in 2 years to sign matsuzaka if boston dosent lock him up by thursday. HOW DID THE ASTROS MAKE IT TO THE WS 2 YEARS AGO????!!!!

[OMGitsthelaststors]

I said good-bye to an overpaid Andy Petite, and I say good-bye to Hirsh and Buchholz. Neither pitcher impressed me, and frankly I am sick of the Astros depending on blind luck and rookies to win. Jennings has posted the lowest ERA out of any pitcher in Colorado history. I believe that he will be a solid #3 pitcher. I hate the fact that they let Tavares go, but he scared me when he was on base anyway. I still feel that the Astros need to get another pitcher and someone solid in the bull pen other than just Dan Wheeler. Frankly, I have never liked Brad Lidge as a closer. I hope Wheeler gets the job. We still need a solid CF as well. Please do not put Biggio in CF. I love Biggio, but having him in the OF is like seeing a fish out of water. I hope Clemens will come back, but I would hate to see the Astros rely on him. I think he will be great, but the Astros really need to fill that spot and use him in home situations only. Besides for Tavares being traded, we still look pretty solid as far as hitting goes. The only one that I would have like to see them trade is Morgan Ensberg. I am sick of his ridiculous performance. He should be hitting 30 HR's per year, no exceptions. But noooooo, he gets hit by one ball and is afraid to stand in the batter box. He gets paid to hit and at times be hit, make your pay or retire. And Astros, quit depending on him. Sign Huff for goodness sake. One more and I am done. The MLB needs to have a salary cap so this ridiculouos war of who is going to be the first player to sign a billion dollar contract will stop. The NFL got it right why can't players quit being so greedy and only take what is going to make them rich. Come on, Andy Petite didn't need 16 million. He could have taken the 12 million overpayment the Astros was offering and could have pitched in a good rotation as sorry as he is.

[nrmax88]

bobo, thats a good post, i completely agree. Maybe in the future this helps the rockies, but i like the jennings aquisition. Jennings will be more succesful then hirsh or bucholz will be this year, atleast i think so. Gleebo, how r u gona make fun of a dead guy. If the mets didnt trade kazmir for zambrano, they would still be awful. I hated the trade until i realized that the whole duquette/ phillips regime was finally over. Trading Kazmir was the price of shocking the system. It worked out for the mets, so i cant complain. I still can believer gleebo is making jokes about a dead man.

[Brian]

Well, lets take a look at the positives guys. First off, we can all agree that we had an abundance of minor league pitchers who will be/are ready for the bigs. Hirsh, Buchholz, Albers, Nieve, Patton and Samson. We had to trade some. Best case scenario is we have a starting rotation of Oswalt, Jennings, Williams, Albers and Patton. Now that Hirsh and Buchholz are gone, Albers and Patton are our top 2 prospects. Plus guys, lets face reality, Clemens is 42 and Pettite is 35, hey werent exactly going to be around forever. Purpura just got us another big time pitcher in his 20's and if we can re-sign him, he will look great with Oswalt anchoring our rotation for the next several years.

I just heard Purpura on the radio and he said that now Burke will be our starting CF with Lane as his backup. He also said Lane would be seeing some time in RF. He went on to say that he felt ok trading Taveras away because of the fact that Hunter Pence is ready for the bigs. He also said that Pence will be in the big leagues this year with us making his debut. (When he said that, it made me think that they are possibly looking at trading either Lane or Scott) The announcer asked him about a contract extension with Jennings and Purpura said he hasnt talked to him about that but he will at a later date. He said that he talked to Jennings and he was thrilled that he was coming home to Texas and couldnt wait to throw his sinker ball in an Astros uniform.

All in all, we are building/reloading our team for the future and for now. This doesnt count us out of the race this year by no means. It makes us younger and hopefully we can re-sign Jennings. We gave up 2 maybes (Hirsh and Buchholz) for a proven (Jennings). How many times have the Astros fed us this stuff about how great this guy or that was going to be and then they turned out to be terrible?? Elarton, Redding, Wandy and Astacio immediately come to mind

[nrmax88]

I have to think Zito sweepstakes is down to NY and Texas. If he wants to pitch in NY, make a lot of money in endorsements, help solidify a questionable staff, and be in a playoff race every year, he will sign with the mets. If he wants more money, then he will go to texas and be in last place every year. There isnt really much doubt in my mind that texas will offer more then the mets. Mets insiders say the mets are not interested in getting into a bidding war over him, they simply want to bring him into NY sometime soon, show him all of the things he can do in NY and all of the oppurtunities he has, make their offer and say take it or leave it. This is my take on the zito situation

[palehose35]

I think this move pretty much proves that KW could have got more for Freddy Garcia.

The Astros just got hosed.

[Brian]

The Astros didnt get hosed. You guys dont understand how our organization is. They build up these pitching prosepcts and say they cant miss and that they are the future and guess what, they always miss. Buchholz was supposed to be our #2, but after 2 years, he still struggles to put together 5 good innings. Hirsh was brought up this year to help us and only pitched 6 innings 2 times. Jennings is a proven pitcher. Buchholz and Hirsh are not. As for Taveras, I would have traded him to the Marlins for a hot dog vendor.

[melyrules]

although you were just kidding around, taveras to the marlins dont sound to bad. You could pick up nolasco or petite or someone.

[Brian]

According to our local radio here in Houston, Florida had zero interest in trading any of their young pitchers. Apparenly Purpura went to them trying to land Josh Johnson and he was going to trade Taveras/Buchholz but they didnt want to break up their young staff.

[melyrules]

I wouldent either, but a young center feilder like taveras would help the marlins and it would still keep them young. Though this is only my view, and whoes gunna listen to me??

[Fenris]

So we got rid of a future 4 starter whose specialty is belt-high crippled fastballs, a pitcher who'll never see his potential due to health and mentality problems, and a defensive Juan Pierre for a proven 2 or 3 starter?

Sounds good to me.

[melyrules]

but those guys on the rockies make them sound that much better, exspecialy in coors field.

[allabouthephils]

This move suddenly makes me love Pat Gillick a little more...

Imagine what Zito's value is right now...

Imagine what this deal just did for D-Matz value in that on going saga...

Imagine what the trade values are for Garland and Jon Lieber right now...

This has fallout implications all around baseball... This has the potential of being one of the most lopsided trades in a long time...

[melyrules]

your the guy that tottaly made fun of my spelling and my screenname, right?

[tinathemetsgrl]

He's a free agent next year, and they just gave up Jason Hirsh and even Willy to get him. Wow.

[Astro Fan in NYC]

How can you say the Stros got hosed? We got a solid, young pitcher (who is from Dallas btw so will likely favor us for a contract extension even if he does test FA) for Willy "I can only get a base hit with a bunt and god help me if someone is standing on 2nd or 3rd" Taveras, Bucholtz, who in two years has shown some signs of brilliance (2 shutouts last year) but either was lights out or lit up, and a young, unproven stud. I agree Hirsch is a great prospect, but is easily two years away from being anything in pros. Basically we traded a prospect and a above average defensive CF who can;t hit for a proven pitcher. Since my mom would be signed for $6 mil this off season, I think it was a necessary trade. We need a #2 and got it.

[Fenris]

Chances are the organization believes it can sign Jennings beyond next year for them to make a trade like this. People, Hirsh can dominate triple-A all day long, but he's nothing special in the majors. As for Willy, good riddance; the man doesn't know how to walk, and he can't drive the ball. He'll be a journeyman in the MLB as long as he's around. I'll miss his defense, until I watch Burke walk up to the plate and crush lefties.

[allabouthephils]

Mely yes I am.... I tottaly
made fon ov yor spelleng.... I telled ya ta go bak to da 6tf grad and crak open da booook...

didz ya doo it

[bsox21]

IN defense of the 'Stros, they jus got a burly right handed sinker baller.

If you look around baseball, that prototype is doing very well right now.

BIg sinker ballers are the "hot thing" in baseball right now because they eat up innings and keep a high GB/FB ratio which is the stat everyone wants.

i think the stros got hosed, but with that said, they got a very interesting guy in jennings.

believe me, nobody is more upset than my buddy who has been holding hirsch in his minor league system in my fantasy baseball league.

hirsch's fantasy value jus plummeted.

[ejruiz777]

Am I crazy for wanting more than a .330 OBP and 78% percent steal success rate from my leadoff hitter? I mean, it's not like his two dozen extra base hits a year really help all that much. Let's face it, Willy Taveras is a glove in CF and nothing more.

Taylor Buchholz has a nice WHIP and that's about it. His apparent HR problem isn't going to get any better in Coors'. Jason Hirsh had a miserable time in the Majors this last year and we all know what they say about prospects and pitchers when they move to Colorado. He's got both of those negatives going for him.

Jason Jennings looks like a fine pitcher who's just not an ace. But that's OK because not every pitcher on a contender has to be one and Houston already has theirs.

In the end, Houston got an establish #2 or #3 for an offensively challenged CF and two young pitchers yet to proove anything in the bigs. Yes, it has the potential to be a terrible deal, but it's no worse than mildly bad at this point. I could see Jennings continuing his nice career in Houston, Taveras being the same ol' Taveras in Colorado and both pitchers failing in the Mile High air. Honestly, I think that's at least as likely as two of those three becoming stars for the Rockies.

[beeniez]

For pitching at Coors, Jennings put up decent numbers. Willy isn't worth that much, a fourth outfielder on most teams - probably just a throw-in. The Astro's basically traded two pitching prospects for Jennings - not that bad. That is, if he stays in Houston.

Houston, again, will have a good 1-2 punch and Tavares will get a lot more singles and doubles. Will he still bunt all the time at Coors? Not that bad of a trade - but it has potential to suck for the Astros if Jennings doesn't sign an extension.

[ejruiz777]

When (not if, but when) the Astros lock Jennings up (even if it is for an astronomical sum of years and money like most of the other deals have been in this market) this trade will look much better. Two years from now, when Taveras still hits like a 5th OF and one or both of the pitching prospects bomb in Coors, the Astros will look like the winners. Shame that this thread will be long gone by then...

[Marvel]

As an Astros fan, when I heard about this deal I felt physically sick. I don't understand how this deal could happen. We're trading a probable ace, gold glove caliber center fielder and decent young pitcher for a one year end of rotation rental and some guy I've never heard of.
I'd like to say I'm not going to renew my season tickets, but as others have pointed out, I'm an idiot.
Whenever Purpura gets fired (November 07), I'll pay extra for my tickets if we can get Hunsicker back. I don't think he'll have anything to do with the Astros until McLane sells. Hopefully to Tilman Fertitta. The guy's an ass but he does everything well.
This was a really good trade for the Rockies and a gut wrenching poor one for the Astros.

[bsox21]

ejruiz,

remember joe kennedy?

he was suposed to be great when he gets out of coors too.

also note, if hirsch falters in colorado, that wont make the deal look bad, becuase perhaps he would have been great had he stayed in houston, which is the real opportunity cost here.

[OPERATIONSHUTDOWN]

Gentlemen, consider these facts before calling Purpura a moron:

1)Hirsh is a fly ball pitcher who showed a pronounced propensity for giving up the long ball, and might have gotten hammered at MMP, or any of the other homer friendly parks in the division.
2)Hirsh is 25 and has proven nothing in the bigs, and really didn't go that deep in ballgames at AAA (6 IP per start).
3)Buchholz is a little, injury prone dude with great stuff and nothing to show for it.
4)Taveras is a fine glove, and a slap hitting leadoff guy who has a .325 OBP and strikes out 100 times a year.
5)Jennings is only 28 and has one of the best sinkers in the majors. Expect him to ride it to 16 W and a 3.50 ERA in 2007.
6)The Astros, according to some studies, had the best groundball defense in the majors in 2006. We all know what the Fielding Bible thinks of Everett. They were targeting a sinkerballer from the get go (Garland), there is method to the madness.
7)Burke and Pence are both HUGE offensive upgrades over Taveras (who isn't) although defensive downgrades.
8)Jennings is a Baylor alum like Astros owner Drayton McLane... an extension is a foregone conclusion.

As far as pitching prospects are concerned, the organization's favorite is still Patton, and Garners favorite is Gutierrez. Albers has filthy stuff and Paul Estrada was the nastiest pitcher in the minors in 2006.

This was a lot to give up for Jennings, but anytime you can deal one of your weakest hitters and two unproven guys for a legit #2, you do it.

As far as comparing this to the Kazmir deal, get real... Hirsh is 25 and was subpar in the bigs in 2006. Kazmir was a 20 yr. old MLB ready flamethrower, and Zambrano (serious control issues) wasn't half the pitcher Jennings is.

[Darin]

ok, the more I think about this, the less I think this trade is lopsided.

1. Willy Taveras sucks big time. If he hadn't gone on the longest bunt streak in the history of mankind last August, his season would have looked a little like .260ish with a .310OBP...guuuuuuuh, especially for a "lead-off hitter" who's over-hyped defensively.

2. Taylor Buchholz...this is the new Tim Redding. He has a minor league ERA of just under 4, couldn't log 100 innings in '04 or '05 got the snot kicked out of him in '06 in the majors, and couldn't even get the job done in AAA after being demoted last year. He has good stuff, but put a guy on 2nd and he's a basket case.

3. Jason Hirsh. Ok he's probably going to be decent but not Roy Oswalt caliber.

The Astros traded 2 garbage pieces and a decent prospect for a #3 possibly a #2 pitcher. The Astros still have Hunter Pence, Josh Anderson, Matt Albers, and Troy Patton to fill in the blanks...not a lopsided trade. Rockies probably got the better deal, but not by much.

[stormstarter28]

I'm sick of this "proven #2" crap from the ridiculously-optimistic Astros fans here. One good year is not "proven." The last 3 years before '06 he had an era over 5. That hardly proves anything to me.

[Gleebo]

I get mixed opinions from Astros fans when I ask about Hirsh. One guy will tell you he was gonna be a perfect #2 after Oswalt for years to come....and the next will say that he's been very overrated.

I just wanna know what happened between Jennings and the Rockies that it became essential for them to deal one of their best pitchers. Just when you thought they were starting to build some reliable SP in Colorado they go deal part of the solution. Now all they have is Jeff Francis, a couple of mediocre guys(Aaron Cook and Kim) and the two young unproven guys they got from Houston in this trade.

And if I was a Rockies fan I would have a hard time sticking around for any game that they put LaTroy Hawkins into.

[Brian]

Darin, as of now you're right. The Rockies did get the better end, but if we re-sign Jennings, then that tilts the scale in our favor. Judging from Jennings comments saying that "he's glad he's on a team that will be in the playoff hunmt for years to come." it sounds like he plans on staying here.

[DentalPlan]

"A 127 ERA+ is a #3 on bad teams and a #5 on good teams?"

I don't think the park adjustments for ERA+ are being properly calculated with the humidor. They could be, but I doubt it, from the raw data I've seen usually made in tabulating those park factors, Coors shouldn't be giving Jennings such an edge in adjusted ERA.

The downside of Jennings: He walks too many hitters, doesn't strike out enough, and his G/F ratio isn't anywhere near as good as people make it out to be, people talk about him like he's Derek Lowe or Brandon Webb, actually look up that G/F ratio.

Jennings refused to sign an extension, so they'll have to keep him at $11 million or more. His FIP the last 3 years has been 4.77, 4.47, 4.07. I think he's hanging around #3 starter area, but let's not piss over the definition of a #2 starter people.

"First off, we can all agree that we had an abundance of minor league pitchers who will be/are ready for the bigs. Hirsh, Buchholz, Albers, Nieve, Patton and Samson."

Nonsense. That's homer talk. Two years ago you were saying that your future aces would be guys like Fernando Nieve and Ezequiel Astacio. You can't just say "We don't need Hirsh, we have Samson and these other bums." That's like saying the Cardinals don't need Anthony Reyes, they have Stuart Pomeranz. Let's get real here.

" How many times have the Astros fed us this stuff about how great this guy or that was going to be and then they turned out to be terrible?? Elarton, Redding, Wandy and Astacio immediately come to mind"

Which makes it strange you're talking up the guys you still DO have.

"They build up these pitching prosepcts and say they cant miss and that they are the future and guess what, they always miss."

Just like when the Astros lost JOHAN SANTANA FOR NOTHING, right? Genius.

"for a proven 2 or 3 starter?

Sounds good to me."

It sounds good, if you like blind homer spin. You guys are some piece of work. Before this trade you can't kiss enough of Jason Hirsh's ass, now it's all "Wow, Jennings is a proven #2." I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees through this crap.

Someone find me a home team fan with a little OBJECTIVITY.

"Albers has filthy stuff and Paul Estrada was the nastiest pitcher in the minors in 2006."

Flat out blind home team crap. Everybody you still have is "filthy" and "nasty." Give me a break. No objective prospects site or report gives much of a rat's ass about these guy Astros fans keep talking up while they dump on Hirsh. These guys who are scouts, not just spin-crazy fans.

Oh yeah, I'm not even big on this "Hirsh is awesome" stuff. I don't think Jason Hirsh is *that* great of a prospect. But he is a good prospect, he's better than your sketchy Albers and your overexaggerated Paul Estrada nonsense which few care about.

As for Taveras, he can pretty much do what Pierre does cheaper and OBJECTIVE STATISTICAL ANALYSIS PROVES that he one of the best defensive center fielders in baseball. Deal with it.

I agree, Jason Hirsh is not amazing, but he's a nice prospect. Who trades a starting leadoff hitting, great defending, cheap center fielder, another live arm, and a top 20 pitching prospect for a #3 starter you can't retain for more than 1 year unless you give him a 5 year, $55 million contract or more? Because he's seen what free agency brings. and he won't be bought off cheap.

That looks stupid to me, and all the spin in the world isn't going to change that.

[stormstarter28]

You got it right, DentalPlan, thank you. I just don't get this trade...whether or not these prospects become really good, they BOTH have potential. If Jennings was good enough to make this team a playoff team next year, this might make a little sense, but that just doesn't seem to be the case. Seems like an obvious waste of young talent.

[beeniez]

Jennings actually had better numbers at Coors Fielder than on the road. So ignore when I said his ERA might go down being away from Coors Field.

He's still an innings eater that can dominate on occasion. Right now he's a borderline 2-3 starter. He's young so he might eventually develop into an ace.

[bigdecker]

This trade seems lopsided at first but if you look closer you see that it might be a decent trade for the immediate future. Jason Hirsh is a nice prospect but he is a couple of years away from being a real everyday player. Taylor Buchholz is injury prone and will never be a pitcher in the bigs..period. Willy T. is a light hitting outfielder that is easy to replace especially when the Astros have guys like Chris Burke and Luke Scott that can play decent defense and contribute more offense than Willy T. As for Jennings I think he can succeed in Houston where every pitch doesn't fly out of the ballpark. Only time will tell, but this trade will benefit the Astros next year and thats obviously what Purpura is trying to do. P.S. Don't forget Taylor Buchholz was sent down last year and Willy T. was benched for half of the season so those 2 guys are replaceable, In 2 years Hirsh may be a stud, but the odds are against him. Always take the proven player.

[stormstarter28]

"Every pitch doesn't fly out of the ballpark" at Minute Maid??? WHAT??? The left field pole can't be more than 220 feet away, I don't care what the sign says. Is Coors more home-run suceptible? Yes, but not by much. (Center field is ridiculous in Minute Maid, I know, so don't bother commenting on it)

[stormstarter28]

And seriously, does one good year after several bad ones make a guy a "proven player" like all these Astros fans are saying???

[The Ancient]

This trade isn't so bad for the Astros.

First, Willy Tavares. Just because he has speed and great defense doesn't mean he is a well-rounded player. He doesn't get on base, nor does he do much else offensively.
He is an upgraded version of Alex Sanchez; or your basic 4th OF playing everyday.

As for Jason Hirsh....he is almost what, 24? 25? he has yet to prove himself. He COULD be better than Jennings, or the same as Jennings, only time will tell.

As for Buchholz...his BB/K ratio is horrible. He is also injury prone, and also 25. We'll see if he pans out, but I doubt it. His future looks like a #4 at best; or a long reliever.

As for Jennings....well, if HEALTHY he could be a reliable innings eater (ie: #2, #3). At least the Rockies recieved percieved value back for Jason Jennings. Jennings was going to walk anyway. Better to have warm bench bodies then wait a few years for draft picks to develop....

[Deuce49]

I am a longtime Astro fan and I do not like the trade. Mainly because Jennings is hardly the final piece of the puzzle here. He's an ok middle of the rotation guy who by us trading for left us with many more holes than we already had. All the young guys we still have that everyone is mentioning are nowhere near MLB ready. Patton is at least 2 years away and probably the only legit prospect. Albers still has to prove himself at the AAA level. Sampson posted good numbers with just average stuff. Wandy and Astacio I would like better if they were in someone elses system. Nieve looks better as a reliever. So we still need arms for the rotation. Defensively we are much weaker in the OF.

While I will agree Burke is a better bat than Willy, you can't discount Willys defense and speed. Not just SB's but the ability to use that speed to score. With the Rockies lineup, he is a cinch for 100+ every year. A Juan Pierre with an actual arm is a good thing to have. Hirsh has proved everything he could in the minors. Not many pitchers are lights out on their first call up. I think he will be as good as Jennings, probably better. Buchholz will be a non factor, especially since the Rockies see him as a relief pitcher as they stated today.

Even if we do sign Jennings the cost will be what someone mentioned earlier, about 5 years, $55 million. Thats a steep salary considering Hirsh will probably be as good and was under club control for 5 more years. Just my 2 cents.

[Fenris]

Wow DentalPlan.

You take several quotes out of context, from several different people, and use them to build a blanket argument against an entire fanbase, and then you complain about "objectivity?"

Methinks you don't know the meaning of the word. I'd recommend staying away from a career in journalism.

[Darin]

DentalPlan:

If you are going to go a rant, at least get your facts straight.

"As for Taveras, he can pretty much do what Pierre does cheaper and OBJECTIVE STATISTICAL ANALYSIS PROVES that he one of the best defensive center fielders in baseball. Deal with it."

Well Pierre has a career OBP of .350 while Taveras is .329, and Pierre made 0 errors in the outfield. Willy's OPS is 58 points lower than Pierre and Pierre steals around 20 more bases a year....how does Taveras do what Pierre does? The only thing Taveras has over Pierre is throwing.

I, as an honest Astros fan, think giving up Jason Hirsh for Jennings is two much, but with the price of the market, its the price to pay to get a veteran pitcher.

"Just like when the Astros lost JOHAN SANTANA FOR NOTHING, right? Genius."

Yeah, he was drafted in the expansion draft who had just posted a 7.93 ERA in Rookie ball ('97) , and a 4.36 ERA in low A in '98. He wasn't even 20 yet. If he was so great, and everyone knew how awsome he was going to be, why did the Marlins trade him shortly thereafter for Jeremy Camp?

[astrosfan]

Dental Plan:

You know, you're correct. The Astros have overblown the quality of their pitching prospects. That's why I think that it's good sense to trade 2 PROSPECTS with no success in the majors for a 5th year MAJOR LEAGUE starter who does well at Coors and had a sub 4 ERA there last season with almost no run support.

[Marvel]

Astrosfan,
ERA has nothing to do with runs support. You are right, he didn't have any run support but had a losing record. It's not like Clemens who got a lot of no decisions.
Speaking of his ERA, check out what it was before they started using "Humidified" balls at Coors field. His sub 4 ERA is a direct result of those balls.
It doesn't make sense to trade the two prospects for Jennings. It would be different if it were for a player with a longer contract or if they were in position to win this year and only needed one more starter to be legitimate contenders. This trade sets them back farther than it improves.
Burke is now the center fielder. Enjoy your doubles, rest of the NL. Also, feel free to move up on the basepaths if the ball is hit to center. No need to fear outfield assists from Burke or Scott.
Also, instead of having an average rotation, we have Oswalt, two average "proven" pitchers and, um, well, if we learn to reanimate dead tissue, there are several options for the other two spots, if you don't mind zombies pitching for you. Better pitching than in the outfield. Luckily, the contracts won't be so expensive. We'll just have to pay them in brains.

[astrosfan]

I'm not expecting Jennings to be an ace and sure, there will be an adjustment period. But I'd rather have him in the mix than just Oswalt, Woody Williams and kids.

That said, by no means do I think GM Purpura is done dealing/signing. They are one of the teams in the mix for Suppan and I'd certainly hope the Astros get a more solid CF. Like a Baldelli.

They have a lot of pieces to trade, like Ensberg, Lane and/or Scott, Lidge or Wheeler, possibly Everett and still havre lots of young pitching.