Red Sox Sign Matsuzaka

According to Jon Heyman of SI.com, the Red Sox have signed Daisuke Matsuzaka to a six-year, $52MM deal with an additional $8MM in incentives.  That makes him an $18.5MM player, if you are to include the posting fee.  If you're so inclined.  Boston now boasts the following starting rotation:

Daisuke Matsuzaka
Curt Schilling
Josh Beckett
Jon Papelbon
Tim Wakefield

I would assume Jon Lester is the sixth man, ready to step in when needed or when he proves he's better than Wakefield.

Comments

[bhealey]

If the two sides are genuinely that close, then it will get done. I doubt Matsu wants to go back to Japan, and the Sox really want him in their rotation.

[Paul Taschereau JR]

THEY WILL GET THIS DEAL DONE...DON'T WORRY RED SOX FANS! THEY WENT TO CA TO SIGN HIM AND THATS WHAT THEY WILL DO!!

[Jimbo]

*crosses fingers* come on Boras, hold out for more money!

[wihargo]

this is as good as done then. There is no way that Boras is going to lose a huge commission. they will close the gap.

[YazFan]

I would be shocked and severely disappointed if the Sox don't bridge a $3M gap to make this work. They would have a lot of explaining to do to Red Sox Nation if that happened. I hope they have learned from the Johnny Damon situation (regarding a few million dollars here and there!). I think they will do it, but it's scary to think that they will let this guy get away for this amount of money. I'm crossing my fingers for the Red Sox.

[bhealey]

Count on the Sox bumping their offer to 10, and that being that.

[Paul Taschereau JR]

Remember the A-Rod situation when the Sox were within $15 million dollars of getting that done.

[ScottBrosius]

Wow, all of this Boras holding out stuff is turning out to be a bunch of crap. Sox are getting a steal here - Boras totally caved under pressure. Sox got exactly what they wanted - length (6 years!!!) and cheap (8 million, AT MOST 11 million?)

[toshiro]

They can always spend the 100 mil on Boras' other guy, Zito and send DMat back to Japan.

[bobo]

I think it's safe to call this a done deal.

The $11M per year is less than what I thought the Sox would offer (and about 2/3 of what I thought Boras would be demanding).

As a Yankee fan, I wish Boras was a bit greedier!

Under $20M/season for this guy in this market is, as much as it pains me to say it, a bargain.

[Paul Taschereau JR]

Boras had to cave in or Dice-K would have gave him the boot

[the Impossible Dream]

Strange as it sounds, I still think Boras is going to cave. From what I understand, once Henry's private jet leaves with Lucky and Theo this morning, that's it. They want him to have a physical before the deadline.

Boras knows he's backed into a corner. If it's only $3mil annually, Boras will come down more than the Sox will meet it.

[bhealey]

Why is everyone saying Boras is caving? Let us not forget that he is only an agent. He is a very shrewd negotiator, but at the end of the line, it is the player that makes the final decision, and I very much doubt Matsu wants to go back to Japan for another year after losing his team 51 million. He wants to stay here and play, and I think it's him that is willing to cave.

[Yanksfan1987]

I'm not sure at what point this became a "done deal." The 3/yr is not such a little amount over 6 years. The sox have already made 2 offers, I'm not sure they are going to budge. 6 years at 11 is 66...plus the 51 is 117 for 6 years. That's not cheap...

[Jason]

I think Sox fans will be pretty pissed if the deal falls apart for $3mm per year. My guess is that Dice-K signes for 10.

[Yanksfan1987]

What happens to the rocket if Dice-K signs? Guesses?

[bhealey]

I think the Sox will still pursue Clements, but they won't offer him the kind of money he got in Houston. So, I'm thinking no Clemens in Boston, but that's just me.

[Jason]

I wonder if the Sox don't still go after Clemens if Matsuzaka signs. For the Sox, this year has "go for it" written all over it, assuming they can find a closer (big if).

[Yanksfan1987]

I think he would fit nicely into the Yanks' rotation but Torre isn't cool with him joining in June...

[Jason]

At this point I think Clemens winds up with the Yankees or Sox if he pitches.

I think the Astros won't be good enough to be competitive, and I expect Boston and NY to be in the thick of it in the AL. My guess is that Clemens doesn't come back to play for a loser, which I'm assuming the Astros will be, possible incorrectly.

[walkoffblast]

I am a little skeptical of this report. It says Matsuzaka is asking for ... The last I checked every report also says everything that goes to Matsuzaka and vice versa goes through Boras. Matsuzaka has not aksed for anything. I do not doubt the Red Sox offer but I think the 3 mil apart may be an attempt on Boras to swing public pressure back on the Sox to make a deal.

Although it would not shock me if someone finally told Matsuzaka what was going on and he told Boras he did not want to look greedy to Japan so now a deal will get done.

On Clemens:
http://blogs.chron.com/lopezblog/archives/2006/12/red_sox_to_be_c.html

[Paul Taschereau JR]

Would it be possible to get both Dice-K and Clemens?

[Paul Taschereau JR]

Would it be possible to get both Dice-K and Clemens?

[walkoffblast]

No one really knows yet but when they went after Clemens last year luxury tax was not an issue. The six man rotation idea would not surprise me.

[Paul Taschereau JR]

6 man rotation? I don't think that is good for pirchers to have that much rest in between...Pitchers today don't throw enough as it is...to give them even more would not be helping any. I forgot who said this but it was a former major league pitcher who said:
The arm is a muscle it works best when it is used...thats how it becomes strong and durable...look in old baseball when they had 2 or 3 man rotations...should the Sox get both someone will go to the pen or someone will be traded...it would be an interesting situation though

[sirfreshness]

Do you really thin Dice-K dosent kow what is going on? You say if he knew what was going on he would sign. I find it hard to believe that boras doesnt keep him informed. Just because he is not at the meetings doesnt mean that he doesnt know the situation. Everyone wants to blame boras for this deal taking so long but if Dice-K really really wanted to pitch for boston then he would be doing everything he could to get signed (im not saying he doesnt).

[siliconmessiah]

I don't see how it's "only $3million per year", that seems like a lot to me. You guys make it sound like they're only a few dollars away, this is millions of dollars we're talking about. Only $3MM more is still over 33% of the Red Sox offer, that's a huge difference.

[walkoffblast]

There are multiple schools of thought. The six man rotation would include pitching longer in the actual starts and aggressive throwing side session inbetween (possibly out of the bullpen). You have to factor in that Clemens would not start the season right away and there could be an injury. Plus on weeks they have a day off Wakefield would go to the pen for long relief. They really do not have anyone who can go to the pen is the issue. It is all specualtion at this point anyway. This could all be posturing to show a backup to make Matsuzaka expendable to sign. Normally I would say the 6 man rotation would be a bad idea but given their personnel it makes a certain amount of sense to at least try. Especially since Matsuzaka is used to pitching on that many days of rest.

[Jason]

I wouldn't be suprised if the Sox went to a 6 man rotation at all:

1. Schilling is old
2. Wakefield is old
3. Limit Papelbon's innings to avoid Verlander's late-year struggles
4. Matsuzaka is used to pitching on an additional day of reset
5. Clemens is old/limit Lester's innings (if he is the 6th man)

[walkoffblast]

Beckett is the 6th man and his blister issues are well documented. Lester will probably be used like Papelbon two years ago if he is in good enough shape to pitch.

[YazFan]

Wakefield is the odd man out in a 6 man rotation. Put him in a dress and have him cheerlead for all I care. If we were lucky enough to have the other 5 in the rotation it would be the best rotation in baseball by far.

[walkoffblast]

He may be the odd man out but he is not as effective out of the pen and we all know what happens when Varitek has to catch him. It would create more headaches than it would be worth.

[henry14theking]

Paul... do you bring anything to this board other than double posts and typing in caps-lock? Its kinda getting annoying.

I'm surprised Boras is settling for Meche money (I've trademarked that term). If Theo doesn't finish this... he's an idiot.

[Paul Taschereau JR]

hey henry...i have no clue how the double posts get there and the caps lock thing only happened once...and it was a computer problem...I explained that...and the double post only happened twice...and your the only one that has mentioned it...get a life...i'm offended by that comment too

[walkoffblast]

No one paid Meche money for exclusive rights to Meche.

[toshiro]

Question: that's a lot of money for a long contract. Obviously Japanese hitters can do well over the long term, but is there a precedent for Japanese pitchers? Will he get 'figured out' or is he truly Pedro like in his abilities? I mean, Zito is out there and Carlos Zambrano will be available next year.

[Jason]

Maybe I give the Sox FO too much credit, but I doubt they would have posted $51 million if they thought he was the kind of pitcher who would get "figured out."

And about Zambrano next year, the Sox have Schilling coming off the books so there will be money there if they decide to go after him.

[Jason]

Rotoworld says that Matsuzaka & Boras are coming to Boston

[Bostonianboy]

so does the Bostonherald...a deal will obviously get done

[gadamer]

I've said before here that Schilling's age (as with Wakefield's) should worry the Red Sox more than it appears; as well, Matsuzaka is simply unproven in MLB, another worry. In addition, Pabelbon and Lester are young guys bouncing back from very tough injuries/illnesses. And Beckett looked dreadful at points last year.

I simply find it hard to swallow the idea that their rotation will be the best in baseball, let alone in the AL East.

Aren't any of you worried about the make up of this rotation? Personally, I think the White Sox could have another great rotation this year, though they too have some issues unanswered -- and I like what the Yankees have done in the off-season.

[RightHandMan]

Done Deal???

http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/redSox/?p=795

[Bostonianboy]

Yea cuz the Yankees are loaded with a bunch of young/injury free pitchers..yea right

RJ - old/injury problems
Pettite - not that old but major elbow issues

Wang - injury prone

Pavano - i wont even go there

the only pitcher the yanks can depend on is Moose and he aint no spring chicken.

so both staffs have major questions. I am a bit biased but i would still go with the sox with Matzusaka in the mix

[Jason]

Age is certainly a concern, which is why I like the six-man rotation idea (even if Lester is the 6th, assuming he is able to pitch). No doubt that age is a concern.

I would put the Sox rotation above the White Sox because, IMO, every guy in that rotation (aside from Wake) has the potential to be dominant (Schilling, Papelbon, Matsu, Beckett). Though Beckett was a tale of two cities last year.

[beaminack]

if Matsuzaka is on that plane the deal will get done i swear it. nasties starting rotation in baseball

[RightHandMan]

I have NO worries about this rotation...Beckett finished Strong, Schilling put up a top 15 line last season, and hes not randy johnson old. Wakefield concerns me, but seriously, when the knuckleball is working its hard to hit, and its not a pitch that wears on the body or the arm. Papelbon Had a SUB 1.0 ERA last season in the pen.
He is not a question mark.

Lester came back from cancer. He is a non issue

[bhealey]

"Aren't any of you worried about the make up of this rotation?"

Of course there are question marks, but there always are. As for me, I try to take all worries in conjunction with the possibility of the opposite, and tempered with the past. For instance, Beckett worries me a lot more than Schilling, because Beckett had a terrible year last year, whereas age is much more intangible (some pitchers wear out at 32, some pitch until they're 43... depends on a lot of factors, most of which we can't determine), so until Schilling proves to me that he can't do it, then I'll assume he can.

Same goes for Matsuzaka: He may not be proven in the MLB, but his track record in the act of pitching is stellar and his raw abilities (velocity, pitches controlled, etc.) are equally stellar, so until he proves that he can't perform in the MLB, I am going to assume that he will be able to translate those tools into comparable actions.

It is a risk, yes, but a calculable and measurable risk, and one worth taking.

[Rearviewmirror]

Reports from the Boston Globe indicate that a deal has been reached. Theo and Larry are flying back to Boston with Boras and Matsuzaka.

[rugbyboy11]

Do these Yankee fans and Red Sox haters know that they shouldnt throw stones if you live in a glass house? Are people really talking about age and the Red Sox rotation. Im not sure if you guys know this but Wakefield throws a knuckleball. Not too much wear and tear on the arm. And Schilling is a work horse. With the exception of the ankle injury (not an arm related injury) he's been pretty healthy. The Yankees have more issues to worry bout in pitching dept with Johnson falling apart right before our eyes. I cant really remember Pavano pitching for the yanks. And Mussina isnt the face of youth either. Put Mariano Rivera in the Mussina category too. Also Wang is going to have a significant drop off this season, at least thats what I think anyway. He doesnt strike enough guys out so that means that alot of wood is making contact to his pitches. I'd take Schilling, Dice-k, Beckett, Papelbon, Wakefield over just about every other rotation in the majors..

[RedTRibe]

I would appreciate if this is a done deal, for all the pathetic Yankee fans who claimed the Sox did this as a "block". To step up to the plate and admit you were wrong. But we all know that wont happen.

[bhealey]

Also, a 6-man rotation is a bad idea. It solves nothing, as the yearly innings output would be close to the same, and only creates unnecessary rest that could turn quickly into regular rust for pitchers that are used to (and should be) pitching on 3-4 days rest, not 5-6 (depending on off days).

[the Impossible Dream]

Dice-K is a Red Sox pitcher now! Three 26-year-old ace-potential pitchers. I could care if the other two are 50 years old.

[Yanksfan1987]

I admit I was wrong to think this was a block. now we will get The Rocket and the sox will have overpaid on this guy for six whole years...i'm bitter

[gadamer]

Thanks for the exchange. I absolutely agree that the Yankees have many of the same issues as the Red Sox -- age, injury history, rookie dropoff, etc. -- so I should clarify that I wasn't saying the Yankee's rotation is better, just that they made pretty good moves (with what was available) to improve the rotation in the ways that they could. I should also say I am definitely NOT a Yankee's fan, though I live in New York; I'm from Chicago.

I agree that the Red Sox will have the potential for a terrific rotation -- I'm just not convinced all things will fall into place. So here is my wholistic prediction: Beckett struggles less, but is mediocre throughout the year; Schilling pitches many innings, but is slowly losing his stuff and runing out of gas just past mid-season; Papelbon takes time to stretch himself out as a started, but once he gets going, looks pretty darn good; Wakefield is at the end of his career, and gets spelled by Lester, who is not nearly as dominant as last year; and finally, Matsuzaka has great stuff, is a good #3, but no ace. Hey, it could all break better for the Red Sox, who will have a terrific offense again and will challenge for a playoff spot for sure.

[RedTRibe]

Yeah, its pretty obvious. You can have the rocket we have Dice K.

[bhealey]

We'll still be bidding on Clemens, so I wouldn't expect him to be a lock as a Yankee. It's gonna be another bidding war, although I'll concede that the Sox are less likely to offer more than the Yankees will offer.

[MDappa]

WEEI has confirmed that D-Mat is on the plane with Boras BACK to Boston

[soxncards]

How is 6 years 66 million overpaying for Dice-k...considering what schmidt& meche just got...and what zito would like to get 11 million per year is a great deal..and no i didnt forget that they paid a $51 million posting fee, but i believe it was already posted on here that alot of that will be recovered in tv deals, endorsments, sales and all that fun stuff that having him will bring. so say at the least half of that posting fee is recovered...that will put it at about 15.25 million/year...and thats a conservative estimate as to how much they will get back.

[rugbyboy11]

I'm being 100% serious when I say this, but even if the Dice-k deal falls through, I hope and pray that the sox do not go after roger clemens. Talk about a prima donna! They'd have to do the thing like Astros did with him only being with the team when he pitches and joining the team at mid-season and what not. Talk about T.O. being a teammate in football. Whats the difference between him and Clemens?

[miifigue]

Why do sox fans need yankee fans to admit they were wrong. That makes no sense whatsoever. Are we in the 3rd grade? Were you feeling hurt? Do you need a hug? For the love...

[ROBJ]

The Sox are headed back to Boston WITH Matsuzaka!!!! WOOHOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JDM33]

Dice K agrees WEEI just said that Dice K is on his way to boston http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/

[JDM33]

Dice K agrees WEEI just said that Dice K is on his way to boston http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/

[YazFan]

Now that it looks like we have D-Mat, why would Clemens sign with the Yankees? He should go with a winner!!!

[ZachAttack]

The Red Sox now have the best starting rotation in the majors assuming they live up to the hype. Why in the world will they have a 6 man rotation. Also, why would you have Wakefield in there, and not Beckett. Yes, Beckett has had some blister issues, but he is a great YOUNG pitcher. Sorry, the BSox will not have a story book ending with Clemens.

2007 Starting Rotation

1. Schilling
2. Matsuzaka
3. Papelbon
4. Beckett
5. Lester/Wakefield

Sorry guys, but Lester is no "ace." Papelbon has the potential, but I hate using that word with pitchers. Next year Schill will be gone, and DMat will come in as the "ace."

2008 Starting Rotation

1. Matsuzaka
2. Papelbon
3. Beckett
4. Lester
5. Wakefield

I bet the Sox go after Zambrano next year hard.

[beeniez]

Steve Phillips was wrong again?!?!?!

[redsox0909]

lester has pretty good stuff. I wouldn't say hes not ace potential but he needs to locate better and cut down on the pitches.

A source has said that the sox have offered Clemens a contract similar to the Astros one of last year.

The sox now need a closer.
I'd try to pry Mike Gonzalez or Chad Cordero.
Who should the sox offer?

[Bostonianboy]

Well if you think the Sox gave a shot at Zambrano next year. the way the Cubs are spedning money they will back a dumptruck of cash to his house and say "here ya go, can we get you some more?"

plus whatever Zito gets this year..add like 2-3 years and like 3-5 mill a year on top of it for Zambrano

[beauhoopman]

Best rotation in the majors? Quite possibly yes, but I have severe reservations about Schilling and Papelbon's health, and that's not mentioning Lester. I'm not saying they won't be the best, I'm just saying there are legitimate health concerns that loom large.

[thenockmlb]

Zambrano won't be going anywhere.

[beeniez]

"I'd try to pry Mike Gonzalez or Chad Cordero."

Bowden and Littlefield are asking ridiculous prices for them. So whoever gets them will be giving up a lot.

[redsox0909]

to bad Bryce Cox is two more years off. He's gonna be a sick closer.

[ZachAttack]

Well, the Sox could move Wakefield to closer. I am sure Aaron Boone won't hit another walk off homerun off of him. LoL.

[rugbyboy11]

People saying Lester doesnt have ace stuff is very misinformed. In my opinion, and in the opinion of other scouts, Lester's stuff is better than Papelbon's. He doesnt have the power of Papelbon, but Lester has a better repetoire of pitches that he can throw for strikes. Everytime he's come up in class (throughout the minors) he's had a short adjustment period and then completely dominated. In AAA Pawtucket last season, there was a game that he dominated hitter throwing just secondary pitches and also had a tight pitch count. Lester is the real deal!

[rugbyboy11]

Also, I dunno if you guys remember or not, but Wakefield did close some games before. I remember being at a game at Fenway against the rangers, and wakefield came out to close. So he can do it, and with the power pitchers ya have in the Startin rotation, wakefield is def a confusing timing change..

[start_wearing_purple]

I'm willing to bet the Cubs sign Zambrano to an extension before the july trading deadline. Probably a bloated backloaded deal. I thought I heard the Cubs already started to put out feelers towards there. If Zambrano's bright, he'll wait to see how much Zito signs for.

[start_wearing_purple]

Lester looks to be a decent #2 or a good #3 especially if he works on his control. Last year he showed flashes of brilliance. I remember watching him strikeout David Wright with bases loaded on a change up. He already knows how to work under intense pressure.

I have to wonder if he's an internal candidate for closer...

[JakeOD21]

rugbyboy, you are right about lester. before last season the Red Sox, Baseball America, and other scouts and baseball people recognized Lester as the best pitcher in their farm system (ahead of Papelbon, in BA's case). The Sox definitely feel Lester has what it takes to be a #1-caliber pitcher. The most important thing for him is to just get himself healthy and ready to pitch, the Red Sox are hoping they won't need to rely on him in 2007.

I feel Lester, like the rest of the Sox young pitchers, will benefit greatly from working with new pitching coach John Farrell. He knows how to deal with them (look at Sabathia, Lee, Westbrook, Sowers, et al in Cleveland) and get the best out of them. I feel like once Lester learns how to have confidence in his fastball and start attacking the strike zone with it, he will not have any problems becoming a top major league pitcher.

[jondogg1985]

First I am glad to know I am right about the signing. Sure my day was off, but moot point now. In defense of Roger Clemens, why would a sure-fire first ballot hall of famer want to close? I am the BIGGEST Red Sox fan and I think it would be a bad move on the Rockets part. As far as starting, there is no real need for him. Unlike last year when they traded a starter (Arroyo) when they thought they had enough, I think they shouldn't BUY into too much pitching. Let him go to the Yanks, he'll want more than 4 million per month, whenever the hell he decides to come back. So many idols in sports retire too late, as for the Rocket, hang em up. Petitte is 35, not 44, so its different there. As you who are not Sox fans can tell, the Sox are trying to go YOUNGER, capitalized YOUNGER not OLDER. Screw Clemens and his fantasy storybook ending. I loved him in '86 when he fanned 20 Mariners, and I loved him in '96 when he fanned 20 Tigers. I also loved him even when he showed up to spring training as a David Wells impersonator (over weight).

[JakeOD21]

I agree jon. now that the matsuzaka deal is just about done, it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to go after clemens. for all the talk the team does about trying to build a team based around the future and avoiding quick fixes and impulsive action, why would they then turn around and give $20 million for one year to a 44-year-old guy? Besides, the Sox still need to get a backup catcher and 2 more bullpen arms (one will have to be a closer), and they are looking at going over the luxury tax with just addressing those needs.

[the Impossible Dream]

I'll have to also say Lester has teriffic potential. His pitches are amazing, and all he lacks is experience and great control. That's the only negative comments that've followed him, is that he can have bouts where he doesn't exhibit the control he does at other times.

I think his start against the Nationals was a good preview of what we can expect from him in later years. He's only 23, and I doubt he'll get very many MLB innings in this year, he needs to regain weight/strength since coming off chemotherapy.

[Bostonianboy]

SI.com is reporting a deal is done...

get this - 52 million over 6 years...if thats true what did the sox do to Boras to come down so far? or maybe matzusaka was getting lot of pressure from Seibu.

wow what a deal if that true

[beauhoopman]

Zambrano will not sign an extension this season. He will have so much demand next offseason, and get so many bids, there is absolutely no reason not to test the market. If he wants to sign with the Cubs again, he can still force them to up their offer by waiting until Boston, NY, Texas, St. Louis and all others make a bid.

[Kramerica Industries]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/baseball/mlb/12/13/matsuzaka.signs/index.html

There is the link wow great move by the sox they got the years they wanted for less money......

[Mr_Punch]

Wow! If SI has those numbers right (I'm skeptical), thats some incredible work by Theo.

[redsox0909]

without the bid, thats less than Batista money who is a 500 carrer pitcher. Theo is incredible. This team is great. Solid line up, great mix of verterns and young players. The only thing that could use some help is the bullpen but its not even that bad.
An important note is that they came through this offseason without giving up any young pitching or first round draft picks.
(Loretta was a Type A free agent)

[Kramerica Industries]

They lost thre first rounder with lugo

[GoBoSox420]

Still need a closer though

[soxncards]

Mirabelli is back now...yay kinda! atleast he can catch Wakefield..or use to be able to ...

[ScottBrosius]

After all that, Boras gets basically nothing. He's just horrible - all that nonsense about hwo great of an agent he is goes into the crapper on this one. The sox would probably have given him a better deal (same money for less years) if he had just negotiated at the beginning.

Great work by the Sox. Brilliant, brilliant move. 8 million a year? 3 millino LESS than meche? Wow. Did Boras negotiate at all, other than to wait until the last day?

[rugbyboy11]

Yes they lost a first rounder with the lugo signing. But wont they also recieve a 1st rounder from the team that signs foulke?

[Kramerica Industries]

Foulke I believe is a type B free agent yet Rudy Seanez is a Type A!

[ScottBrosius]

Look at what the "Experts" predicted:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove06/news/story?id=2696021

Theo gets substantially less then what they all thought. Rob neyer, 5 years 63.5 million. HA! Try 6 years 50 million!

[sirfreshness]

Foulke wasnt a type A FA. As far as the yankees signing Clemons, i sure as hell hope not. All we need is another 40 year old starter who will only be around for half a season can cost a butt load of money. Congrats to all the Sox fans for getting the pitcher of the offseason.

[walkoffblast]

Foulke is type B they get a sandwich pick for him.

[bhealey]

I am STUNNED that they could pull this off for 8 mil a year (if that's accurate)! I expected atleast 10 mil... wow, go Theo!

[allabouthephils]

Eric Karabell isn't an expert.. he is a fantasy guy...I know more about contract negotiations than that nerd... Who the hell is Enrique Rojas ???? 6 @ 90 is probably what he would be worth if he were a free agent......

[bhealey]

Sorry, it's actually 8.666666 per year... ;)

[desturbd1]

I don't have much to say...but about Lester...he has No. 1-2 potential, at least according to what BA and everyone else said before he got called up last year. Keep in mind that we don't actually know when he started getting sick...I'm gonna take a wild guess that cancer might hurt your control, especially if the main system was constant soreness and fatigue. If he's fully healthy again this year, he could be a totally different pitcher then the one we saw last season.

[Marvel]

jondogg1985,
Last year Houston had the same fans who wanted Clemens to close. Any call for that is just a basic misunderstanding of pitching. The old man has to work his ass off to pitch every five days, I'm not sure what makes people think he can pitch on back to back nights. He's a starter and his training is designed to do that. I agree with you, there is no possible way he can relieve. He's just not built for it.
I've got a trade idea for the Red Sox, Lidge and Purpura for Epstein. If Epstein can manage Boras, he's pretty good. If Purpura creates 3 holes to fill one, he's not. He's just a frogman.

[bhealey]

Marvel, it's very common for people who have never pitched or don't have a deep understanding of pitching, to say "he can do it, pitching is pitching, right?" I've had COACHES take this philosophy, so it doesn't surprise me when people suggest an established starter move to the closer or setup role.

[nrmax88]

"After all that, Boras gets basically nothing. He's just horrible - all that nonsense about hwo great of an agent he is goes into the crapper on this one"

What an absolutely awful post, thas all i have to say, just awful

[nrmax88]

I mean really, Yankee fans are really bitter about this, arent they? Not all of you though. I want to see what lil melyrules has to say about this. Congrats to sox fans

[allabouthephils]

Congratulations Sox fans, you now boast one of the strongest and deepest rotations in baseball....

Who cares about melyrules ???
The guy can't even spell correctly..... I'd be suprised if he could dress himself.....

[djskilbr]

Barring them finding another closer, and assuming health, I really think they should just use Lester in the closer role this year. That'd make for one hell of a team. Sign Clemens and do that and wow, there's no stopping them, unfortunately for my Twins.

[rugbyboy11]

According to John Henry, the principle owner of the Red Sox, the Dice-k deal is not done as is being reported.

[quintjs]

I almost feel sorry for Matsuzaka, I am sure it probably doesn't worry him as much as it does the media and us, but man, that deal is a great one for the Red Sox.

Lilly, Menche, Eaton.

6 years of Matsuzaka, the new revenues alone make the bid worth it, and barely having to pay the guy. Tis a good day for RSN.

djskibr - Lester as a closer? He will be starting.

[wihargo]

Actually, Boras did pretty well getting that much for Matsuzaka. and himself. he just got himself another 3 million or so. Add that to the money he's going to make off of the Drew contract, and the guy has done pretty well for himself just dealing with the Red Sox this year.

[ArodSucksAtLife]

If any Red Sox starter had the best chance of success in a closers role, I'd think Clement would kill at it.

[ArodSucksAtLife]

"According to John Henry, the principle owner of the Red Sox, the Dice-k deal is not done as is being reported."

Thats cause he has to take the physical, then they have to submit paperwork with the MLB offices.

[nrmax88]

You feel bad for a guy making millions of dollars to play baseball? Wow.... do you feel bad for the crack head prostitute worken the streets of NYC just to make enough money to eat and by more crack?
These guys are fucking playing baseball for a living, and making millions to do it!!!!! And you feel bad for them? I would play fucking baseball for a living for 80 grand a year are you kidding me dude? Seriously. Theyre making their living off of a game. The best occupation in the world, by far.

[nrmax88]

wihargo i agree, how does getting an 8 million dollar deal or whatever it was, for a pitcher who has never thrown a single pitch in the big leagues, make him a horrible agent. This is just spoiled little idiot yankee fans being jealous that Boston got the nicest toy for christmas, and they also happened to find that toy for cheap, cuz there was a going out of business sale if they didnt sign him soon! Clemens doesnt care about being on the best team, or he would have joined boston or NY last year. He will go to whoever pays him the most, simple as that, and Joe Torre has openly said that he wouldnt allow Clemens the same perks that he gets in Houston. I seriously doubt Clemens will be a yankee.

[nrmax88]

Also, how do you all know that Boras wasnt willing to walk away, actually I'm pretty sure Boras would have got up and walked if Dice K didnt want to play here so bad. Its not Boras' final decision of whether the contract is signed or not. It is his job to find the best deal for his client, and im sure Mats got nervous, and just accepted the deal he was offered just to stay here. Its still more money then he would have gotten for Seibu. Boras is the best agent in the game, in terms of getting money for his guys. By far. Bar none. It isnt even close. Yankee fans calling him a horrible agent and saying what a bad deal this was by Boras just shows how upset and bothered by this signing they are. This is a good day for Redsox fans, you have managed to upset and worry the OH MIGHTY POWERFUL yankee fans. You should all have a satisfied smile on your faces in Boston. I do, because i love when yankee fans are pissed off.

[allabouthephils]

"I almost feel sorry for Matsuzaka, I am sure it probably doesn't worry him as much as it does the media and us, but man, that deal is a great one for the Red Sox.

Lilly, Menche, Eaton.

6 years of Matsuzaka, the new revenues alone make the bid worth it, and barely having to pay the guy. Tis a good day for RSN.

djskibr - Lester as a closer? He will be starting."

that's like saying I felt sorry for Alex Rodriguez in Texas because he wasn't winning.. hahhahaha

Lester will be starting if the Red Sox want to go to a 6 man rotation..... or they trade Beckett, Papelbon, Wakefield, or Schilling.... obviously they wont trade D-Matz.... Lester would probably fetch one hell of a closer.... Maybe they could trade him to Houston for Lidge.. Wouldn't be a bad deal... The money washes itself and Lidge is still a top tier closer in baseball......

[fairwayphil]

After being a lurker so long.....
Just wanted to weigh in on the 6 man rotation thing.

Severeal years ago Whitey Herzog had Joaquin Andujar go on 3 days rest while the rest of the St Louis rotation revolved around J.A's desire to throw on alternate days. And many years ago veteran big name pitchers would start a single game per week, usually Sunday to keep thier innings down. Similarly a balanced sox rotation could allow Francona to run Matsuzaka, Beckett, Schilling, Paplebon on regular rest, while bouncing Lester and Wake to/from the pen. When any of the big 4 need a rest, Tavarez can spot start or the Wake/Lester tandem could get an extra start. It might sound complicated, but if you check at the end of the year, the GS stat will probably tell us this is essentially what had transpired.

[beeniez]

How funny would it be if the Red Sox trade him in a week?

[djskilbr]

I'm not saying Lester as a starter permanently, not at all. I'm VERY high on Lester. I think he's basically a LH (ie better) Papelbon longterm. I just think it'd make sense barring finding a closer to see if he could adjust to that role for a year like Pap did.

The Clement idea isn't bad at all either though. I could see him dominating there too. CL's are vastly overrated.

[DoctorCurveBall]

"or when he proves he's better than Wakefield."

Sorry, but Wakefield is retiring as a starter in Boston. Thats just beside the major point though. The best part about this deal is not the rotation we have now, but Papelbon, Beckett, Lester, Matsuzaka for the next 3 years at least.

[rugbyboy11]

Trade lester?! Are you serious? They wouldnt trade lester last season when they had the chance to get Andruw Jones or Roy Oswalt. Lester is a stud. I think that if they want to get a closer like Gonsalves from Pittsburgh they should package say a Dave Murphy and David Pauly for him, something to that extent and best part about that is they'd still be under the luxary tax.

Also with the John Henry statement. He was on the radio doing a live interview and said that no deal has been agreed upon. Then he joked that he hopes that if a deal was agreed upon Theo or Larry would have called him to inform him of that. Looks like there are still some details that have to be worked out..

And one more thing, can we stop with this 6 man rotation thing. I HIGHLY doubt that the sox are going to go with a 6 man rotation. Just doesnt make sense to do so cause as stated above, its bad to give your pitchers too much rest. The White sox would have been the perfect team to do a 6 man rotation and they didnt. Now you expect the sox to do so? C'mon guys stop it..

[bhealey]

beeniez: What? You must be new to baseball.

[Bonatom]

Don't count your chicken before they Hatch with Papelbon...

[rugbyboy11]

bonatom, Papelbon started as a rookie with decent success. The only only problem he ran into was that he tired after about 5 innings. Hopefully going through a major league season and seein what it takes for conditioning I dont forsee that being a problem again..

[tyler]

DMat - Mystery

Schilling - old

Beckett - inury risk/ bad year last year

Paplebon - 1st year as a starter

Wakefield - wakefield is wakefield

hey its pretty good, but its still very questionable

[redsox0909]

NO The sox gave up a first round pick for Lugo, and will gain one when Loretta signs.

Lester is more valuble as a starter. Hes never closed. Don't trade him. The only way the pirates trade Gonzalez is for a Bucholtz or a byrice Cox. Both are almost certian off limits prospects.

[Jason]

When Papelbon started in '05 he got his pitch counts a little high by walking batters, as many rookies are wont to do.

He showed outstanding control last year, so hopefully that won't be much of a problem in '07. My main concern with Papelbon (and Lester) in 07 is their logging too many innings.

We saw young pitchers like Verlander lose their effectiveness last year when their innings got above their career highs. With Lester and Papelbon likely to be major factors in 07, that's why the 6-man rotation might make sense. Add in the fact that Matsuzaka is used to pitching on extra rest, combined with the ages of Schill and Wake, and a 6-man rotation doesn't sound all that unreasonable.

[redsox0909]

NO SHIT its questionable. Most rotations are. The thing is they have so much depth. They have Lester as a sixth starter, and say if two starters get hurt, then they always have tavarez, snyder, and Hansack who could start.
It does have its risks, but depth is there just in case.

[tyler]

i love how the redsox fans try to forget that they have clement too

[ArodSucksAtLife]

I think Hansack is going to get a chance to win the closer spot in Spring training. They don't really need to go get a closer, especially one that will cost so much in players given up. Timlin, Hansen, Delcarmen, tavarez...it's not Papelbon, but they have someone they can promote from with in that will do a damn good job.

[snugalicious]

Well we tend to forget him because he will prob not pitch next year (at least not till later in the year) because of the operation on his shoulder. I am loving this rotation though, you cannot even compaire it to last years. Getting our little ducks in a row. We are going to be set for a long time.

[snugalicious]

Well we tend to forget him because he will prob not pitch next year (at least not till later in the year) because of the operation on his shoulder. I am loving this rotation though, you cannot even compaire it to last years. Getting our little ducks in a row. We are going to be set for a long time.

[redsox0909]

whos Clement?
jk

[ArodSucksAtLife]

"i love how the redsox fans try to forget that they have clement too"

This said an hour after I posted a comment saying that if he is healthy, (not sure on his status) I would love to see him get a chance to close games.....

[JakeOD21]

I think the team will go into spring training without a definite option at closer and there will be an open competition to see who best fits the role.

If the Sox have six open spots for the bullpen, right now they need to fill two of those holes. I know I personally would like to see Hansen start next year back in Pawtucket if he doesn't find his slider in spring training.

So then they would have Timlin, Tavarez, Okajima, and Delcarmen. If I had to predict, I say they sign Piniero and another lesser free agent. Then let the best man win the job. I think they would all be capable.

Interesting to note that the Globe is reporting Boras has been trying to sell the Red Sox on signing Chan Ho Park to be their closer next year. I'd say fat chance of that happening.

[beeniez]

"beeniez: What? You must be new to baseball."

You must be new to sarcasm.

[redsox0909]

this is a stretch but how about Edgar Martinez closing. He was solid last year in Double A but likely needs a half a year.

[tyler]

yeah... not all my statements are in response to everyone on this board

[beeniez]

I thought Clement was out for the 2007 season? Or was it just in jeopardy? He's got closer stuff and could benefit health-wise becoming a reliever.

[ArodSucksAtLife]

I got to see Edgar Martinez pitch last year, and he is flat out sick. He won't be pitching in the majors next year though unless its a 40 man roster call up at the end of the year.

[redsox0909]

he is like the next el-Guapo

[ScottBrosius]

You guys are hilarious. You claim boras did a great job on one hand, and then say that you got Matz cheap on the other. Boras did a horrible job. He could have signed this contract on the first day if he wanted to - regardless of the fact that D-Matz has never pitched. Boras gained nothing by this delay. Matz will never see free agency until he's 32, and will likely be stuck earning Jaret Wright money while crap like Meche makes much more.

Theo said - 100 million is the right investment. Boras goes on and on about how that doesn't include the posting fee. He totally caved on that. Boras says he wants to get Matz on the market quickly. He does a 6 year deal. Horrible. How did Boras accomplish anything at all here?

The sox did an amazing job here. Cheap, cheap, cheap. Second best deal in the majors - the first being the cheap contract they got for Ortiz.

[ArodSucksAtLife]

http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060927&content_id=1686556&vkey=news_bos&fext=.jsp&c_id=bos

12-18 months recovery time, surgery was in September I guess he is never pitching in Boston again. That sucks, I always liked him.

[tyler]

"Cheap, cheap, cheap. Second best deal in the majors - the first being the cheap contract they got for Ortiz."

hahaha what? thats a joke right?

[redsox0909]

i liked him to before he got hit by that line drive hit by crawford. Never did bounce back from that

[ArodSucksAtLife]

David Ortiz 1b/DH
4 years/$52M (2007-10), plus $12.5M 2011 club option

Thats pretty damn cheap, though the best deal in the majors would have to be.....

Albert Pujols 1b
7 years/$100M (2004-10), plus $16M 2011 club option

[redsox0909]

i agree

[redsox0909]

or the pavano deal

[ScottBrosius]

Didn't the Pujols deal include some of his arbitration years at least?

There was absolutely no excuse for the Ortiz deal, or for the DMatz deal. Both of those were significantly undermarket at the time they were signed. Theo is great. He might lose a guy like Damon every now and then, but his budget is excellent especially when compared to the yanks who pay 16 million a year to guys like Johnson and Pettitte.

[tyler]

I know theres been some concern about name calling... but you have to be out of your mind... you make no sense

[ArodSucksAtLife]

This would have been Pujols' Free agency year..... just think about that for a second. So that contract includes 07:$15M, 08:$16M, 09:$16M, 10:$16M, 11:$16M club option ($5M buyout)

[Jason]

Boras had zero leverage. His ONLY chance was that Boston would be afraid that Matsuzaka would be willing to go back to Japan without signing.

However, the Sox showed that they were willing to leave him unsigned. Matsuzaka wasn't willing to walk away. That's hardly Boras's fault, and his hands were essentially tied.

[tyler]

can someone figure out bostons payrole for 2007?

[start_wearing_purple]

Ortiz's deal is similar to Carpenter's deal this year. They love where they're at and grateful to the organization that helped them become stars. Under market value, but not crazy. Let's face it, if Ortiz hit free agency this year, he would have gotten more than Lee

[Jason]

Don't know for sure. I think they'll be around $150mm.

[tyler]

They wont be that far apart from the yankees (who will most likely be under $200 million, maybe $185)

[beeniez]

Boras didn't do so well on this one. He's a lot better at getting a bunch of teams bidding against each other than he is coaxing the most amount of money from one team.

D-Mat didn't think it through when he picked his agent. Boras's approach is "give me the most or we're going somewhere else." Well, Boras didn't have anywhere else to go.

[ScottBrosius]

Ortiz would make 20 million a year in this market. He didn't give up 8 million a year on purpose. He and his agent screwed up.

Boras accomplished nothing. You can find an excuse by saying he had no leverage. But Boras did not add anything other than ridiculous delay. I think a good agent who started negotiating at the beginning could have gotten 10 million a year. By waiting until the last minute, Boras fucked himself and his player.

[Jason]

beeniez, what other possible strategy could Boras have used? The bottom line is that Matsuzaka was NOT willing to go back to Japan.

Willingness to not pitch in MLB this year was his only possible leverage.

[ScottBrosius]

Jason,

perhaps by not being a royal douche about this, Boras could have done slightly better. Maybe 5 years instead of six. Maybe 10 million instead of 8. By going out and askign for 17, it became a pissing contest and Theo decided to make him look horrible, which he did.

[DunkinDonuts]

Fortunately for the Red Sox, Ortiz seems to genuinely like where he is, and was willing to take a bit of a hometown discount rather than test the market.

He lives in the most modest house on the street (nice, but not overdone), and he generally drives an SUV. He seems to already have more money than he knows what to do with, and admire that about him.

[redsox0909]

tyler, right now its at 131 or 132 million.

[nrmax88]

AHAHAHAHAH Brosius is about to cry because the sox got dice k. Booooohooooo baby brosius. It will be ok

[redsox0909]

hes got a sick white H2

[gadamer]

Can anyone tell me where Boston's payroll stands now, assuming the contract for Dice K. is correct?

[nrmax88]

Boras doesnt sign the contract, like i said, Boras would have been willing to walk away. It wasnt his choice. Idiots like brosius who are so mad the redsox actually got some1 the yankees wanted (the nerve of those redsox!) have to make it look like somebody must have screwed up, no way boston could have signed a player the yankees wanted to have. Get over it Brosius. You cant have every single guy u want

[ScottBrosius]

I'm actually not mad about the signing itself. The sox deserved him after making that huge posting. They are putting the money they make from red sox nation into players - and I respect them for that.

I'm mad at Boras for being a tard and doing all this crap. What a waste of my time.

Ortiz took a home town discount, but I am absolutely sure he had no clue Soriano would go out and sign a 18 million dollar deal. He makes the same as Damon and Matsui for crying out loud, this for an MVP-type, 50 HR guy.

STFU nrmax or I will put the brosius curse of mediocrity on you.

[ArodSucksAtLife]

Quick break down that I came up with, not sure how clement's contract counts, they are recouping almost all of his contract through insurance but I believe it still counts against the luxury tax. Right now, I have them at 135 million 986 thousand or so. Plus or minus a million or two.

Manny of 07:$18M
J.D. Drew of 07:$14m
Covelli Crisp of 07:$3.5m
Wily Mo Pena of 07:$1.25m

David Ortiz dh 07:$12.5m
Kevin Youkilis 1b 07:$356k
Mike Lowell 3b 07:$9m
Julio Lugo ss 07:$9m
Jason Varitek C 07:$9m

Daisuke Matsuzaka sp 07:$8.6m
Josh Beckett sp 07:$6m
Matt Clement sp 07:9.5m
Curt Schilling Sp 07:$13m
Tim Wakefield Sp 07:$4m
Johnathan Papelbon Sp 07:$335k
Jon Lester sp 07:$335k

Eric Hinske inf 07:$5.625m
Alex Cora inf 07:$2m

Julian Tavarez RP 07:$3.1m
Mike Timlin Rp 07:$2.8m
Hideki Okajima Rp 07:$1.25
Lenny Dinardo Rp 07:$335k
Manny Delcarmen rp 07:$335k
Kason Gabbard rp 07:$335k
Devern Hansack p rp 07:$335k
Craig Hansen rp 07:$1.1m
Kyle Jackson p rp 07:$335k

[gadamer]

Oops, I think I see the number above...my bad.

[nrmax88]

Brosius, the fact is, Boras made more money on Dice K, then you will ever see in your entire life. He hardly fucked himself... or his player. Boras is the best agent in the game at getting money for his peoples. If you try to argue this point, you are truly a jealous idiot.

[Jason]

ScottBrosius,

Your post is nothing more than speculation. Boras played the only hand he could and the Sox called his bluff. No agent would have done better.

[DunkinDonuts]

Yeah, redsox... I've seen the H2 in his garage, but for some reason he usually drives a big blue one. Not even sure what it is.

He lives a few houses down, and it's cool because occasionally during the season other players will pull up in stretch Hummer limos after some of the early weekend games.

[beeniez]

I don't know all the strategies that sports agent use. But his usual way of negotiating didn't work in this particular case. I just think another agent who is better at signing extensions would have worked better than Boras's willingness to move on to another team.

Boras doesn't work well with deadlines either. His clients usually don't sign until late December or January - or is that just me? I might be wrong on that one.

[ArodSucksAtLife]

add pedroia 07:$335k to that. and apparently Mirabelli.

[gadamer]

Boy, they're lucky to have so many young guys with soft contracts in there; otherwise, they would be closer to 160 plus Dice K's 51m. In any case, assuming they get a closer, they will hover around 140m, so they are expending 190m. this year, plus coaches, trainers, blah, blah, blah. Man, they really spend cash, but I suppose they take it in.

[ArodSucksAtLife]

The Red Sox make about 600 million a year. That includes NESN.

[ArodSucksAtLife]

I meant to say are valued at, not make per year.

[ScottBrosius]

nrmax,

those points are ridiculous. Any agent could have gotten that horrible contract. Bora added no value, and deserves no commission. In fact, I thnk he cost DMatz about 3 million a year, which is also more money than either of will ever make.

I'm serious, I will put the curse on you. You will be mediocre forever, and all of your children will be female.

Jason,

If all I say is conjecture, how can you turn around and say "no agent would have done better." That's silly. Maybe we disgree, but you don't know anything that I don't.

[Jason]

gadamer, I think that the whole "young guys with soft contracts" thing is due more to good planning than luck, along with making unpopular moves like letting go of Damon, Pedro, etc.

[toshiro]

DMat should have tried for a 3 yr contract, even if he had to play for peanuts. Get out from under the posting fee issue and make market value. If he really thinks he's all that and a bag of chips, he could be making Zito money after 3 years. Everybody got what they wanted but DMat (although maybe he's fine with being paid at a discounted rate).

[gadamer]

I wonder what sort of a profit they turn?

[Jason]

Brosius, my argument is based off the fact that the Sox were obviously willing to take it to the 11th hour with a low offer.

No amount of negotiating by any agent will change that.

[ScottBrosius]

beeniez,

I agree. the correct strategy would have been to have a friendly negotiation from the beginning, saying "we need to get this done." There is no way the numbers could have been worse than this, and a sly agent would have gotten 9-10 for 4-5 years.

[Jason]

toshiro, the Sox wanted him for 6 years. If D-Mat didn't want to sign for 6 he was going home.

[ScottBrosius]

Jason,

you are making the same mistaken assumption that boras made - that you get the most money by waiting until the last minute. I do not believe that was the case here, as i've said multiple times. Boras didn't need to bluff, he should have tried to be smart and direct. No way he could have done worse than this.

[Jason]

And for everybody who thinks that Matsuzaka got shafted, read this:

The Sox paid a $51 million posting fee because it enabled them to sign him on THEIR TERMS. Their only real risk is that he was going back to Japan, and they pay no $$.

[rugbyboy11]

and dont forget to also add edgar renteria's salary that they have to shell out (believe that still goes against this season's cap)

[Jason]

Brosius: I think he could have done worse. I DON'T think he could have done better.

The Sox knew what they wanted to pay him, and apparently were willing to let him walk. His hands were tied.

[gadamer]

Last thing I'll say about the money issue: I suppose it just strikes me how imbalanced things are in baseball, even with revenue sharing tactics. Some teams (Yankees, BoSox, Cubs, Mets, Dodgers, Angels) bring in so much more cash than others (Marlins, Devil Rays, KC, Pirates, lots of others). While upstarts can win -- Marlins anyone -- it is much less likely. I don't know, if my team was at the bottom of revenue, I'd be awfully discouraged most years.

[ScottBrosius]

Jason, I don't agree with that. I think you over-estimated the sox leverage. They needed to do this deal as much as anyone. If at the beginning Boras had talked about 4-5 years, he probably could have gotten that. He fucked up royally by pissing off Theo.

[ArodSucksAtLife]

The 8 million they gave to Atlanta for Renteria was on the payroll last year. If Renteria's option for 09 is declined, the Red Sox pay the 3 million buy out on it, and it would be on the '10 payroll.

[ScottBrosius]

gadamer,

a lot of those teams should be contracted. I know it hurts, but they don't make money and I see no reason to have a competitive team in KC if no one there gives a shit.

[toshiro]

Jason -- Even if DMat said he'd play for $5 Mil a year?

The whole posting thing is kinda strange. It's like a form of (very rich) slave trade.

Because of the very high posting fee, DMat was set up to take a low/discounted contract. What makes that even more messed up is that the Sox gave the Seibu Lions 12 million more than necessary, then asked DMat to help them suck up the difference. Isn't that a little like dining at an expensive restaurant, then gyping the waiter because you didn't want to spend a lot? How can that make DMat feel good? Probably better to take 3 yrs at, hell, 3 mil a year, then lose the indentured servant status.

I dunno. I guess DMat will make his millions and should be happy, even if he pockets less than Gil Meche.

[Jason]

Brosius,

I guess we'll agree to disagree. The only real risk the Sox faced by not signing him were (a) pissing off fans and (b) having a weaker (but still good) team in 07.

[rugbyboy11]

thanx arod, I knew that there still was 3 million that they owed for renteria, but wasnt sure if it was this year or not.

About the money and revenue in MLB. People forget that when steinbrenner bought the Yankees I think it was for somethin rediculous like 7 million dollars. He spent his own money to make the yankees to what they are now. Its not that hard for a small market team to build up their payroll, especially considering how the revenue sharing is split. Imagine if the sox and yanks got to actually keep their own revenue from merchandise and things of the like?

[stormstarter28]

Can we please stop talking about how "cheap" this signing was and how wonderful of a deal the Sox got and how Theo Epstein should have a 50 foot gold statue outside of Fenway now??? This cost them 17 per year, not 8. The 51 million dollar post was not monopoly money people. Is he worth that much? We'll have to wait and see.

[ScottBrosius]

Jason,

pissing off fans was supposedly a huge deal. All of this stuff about wanting to make a splash in the market, which supposedly justifies the 51 million posting fee. I don't think you can underestimate how much they needed this deal, which makes Theo even more brilliant.

Boras only understands yelling and screaming and leverage and pissing contests. He doesn't understand how to negotiate a real friendly deal, like a lot of other agents, and get what you need through soft negotiations.

I honestly don't think D-Matz could have done any worse. 6 years is an awfully long time to be wrapped up making Jaret Wright money.

[ArodSucksAtLife]

Every team in baseball makes money. Anybody who says they don't are purposelly skewing the books or stats to make a crap argument. Last year the Marlins, and Royals made more money than they spent on payroll, and coaches from luxury tax alone. That is before they sell one ticket.

[Jason]

Toshiro,

Sure, the Sox might have signed a 3/$15 deal. But what if Matsuzaka sucked or got hurt? Somebody would have to be willing to sign a $3/37 deal in 3 years to guarantee the same cash. Now he can make $52-60 millino over the next 6 years, and be a FA when he's 32 and still make bank if he's good.

[jmonahan7]

I think the Red Sox have had the best off-season thus far, handsdown. You can say the Cubs with Soriano and Lilly, but, Matsuzaka is exponentially better than Lilly and they also acquired Julio Lugo and JD Drew and kept Manny Ramirezall of which seems to make them a lot better than just getting Soriano and Lilly.

[beeniez]

There was no way he was signing for less than 4 years. Posting that much money to get a player for 3 years or less is ridiculous. Even if he played for free, that's $18 million per year. They used that 51 million for a long term investment - not a 2 or 3 year thing. He made it too obvious that he would do anything to play in the United States, probably why Boras didn't want him sitting in negotiations.

How much money would he had made in Japan over the next two years? Over a long term, would he have made more money doing this deal or just waiting until free agency?

[rugbyboy11]

was a cheap signing, even if ya include the posting fee, because that fee doesnt go aginst the lux cap. ANd the revenue that they'll make in japan with Dice-k will cover that posting fee 3 times over...

[Jason]

Brosius,

The Sox pissed off a lot of people letting Damon and Pedro walk. They still sold a lot of seats.

They pissed a lot of people off when they traded Nomar.

They'd probably piss off a lot of people by trading Manny too, but they'd do it for the right package.

I don't think that's a serious consideration, as long as they put a competitive team out there.

[gadamer]

Brosius,

I agree that there are teams which just need to either go away complete (as in, you're gone), or they need to move to a more acceptable market...cough...Marlins...cough. This is always what burns Cubs fans: they are one of the big money makers, with a huge national fan base, great T.V. rights, and a storied past. Yet they have wallowed for many years because they are so poorly run.

[beeniez]

"The Red Sox make about 600 million a year. That includes NESN."

Their expenses must be close to that number or someone is rolling around in a monster pile of cash.

[Jason]

beeniez,

Don't know what the Sox expenses are, but John Henry sits on a monster pile of cash. That is for sure.

[ScottBrosius]

Jason,

those people weren't asian. That's the differnece. most boston fans don't give a shit about players once they leave. The japaneses fans supposedly would have found this very disrespectful. I dont' think you can compare the two. That was absolutely a consideration. The sox needed to do this deal, and they would have gone to 10 million a year for fewer years, IMHO.

[ScottBrosius]

BTW, I bet the yanks sign Igawa for a 5 year, 7 mill per contract. what a joke.

[Jason]

Scott,

Matsuzaka would have looked like a tool if he didnt' sign the offer he had. The Sox knew that.

[quintjs]

Boras was always going to let Matsuzaka sign, it is what the clients wants, and he would have done it with or without Boras, so Boras was always going to get a deal signed.

The only bullet in Boras' gun was time. He hoped he could get the Sox so nervous that they would up their offer. The Sox did not fall for this, they hoped on the plane, leaked Boras was not talking, they made it clear to Matsuzaka they wanted him, and they made another offer, take it or leave it, the plane leaves tomorrow.

Brilliant Strategy by Theo, Henry and co. It worked too. Boras did lose in this.

Wakefield can go to the bullpen to make way for Lester, and I am sure he is a good enough guy to do it for the best of the team.

Matsuzaka, Beckett, Papelbon, Lester - All on contract for at least 3 years (beckett) and all 26 age or younger. And plenty of other young arms coming through the system, enabling trades.

While the Sox have no bullpen to speak off, the starting rotation is looking pretty set at a high quality for many many years.

[toshiro]

Jason-

True he could suck and make a bad deal, but he could also be great. The Sox put 51 big ones up that they think he'll be exactly that.

Just saying, it might have been worth it to DMat to avoid being paid at a discounted rate for so long. If he's as bad ass as they say he is and, in particular if he BELIEVES he's a bad ass, he probably isn't going to enjoy being paid below market value. It's below market NOW...imagine what it'll be in 6 years (when he'll be 32 as you state -- PAST his prime). I think for the benefit of his mental state, he needed to be 'indentured' for as little time as possible. Six years -- that's gonna be awhile. If he becomes dissastified, he's gonna have to 'Manny' his way out of his contract.

[nrmax88]

Scottbrosius just took the lead for biggest moron that posts here. Why would the redsox go any higher then what they did? They paid 51 million so they would have to bid against anyone here. They had every bit of leverage. I dont get what your stupid ass doesnt understand. How can u say this is a steal whn u havent ever seen the guy throw a pitch before. Congrats, biggest moron on board, and thats saying something. You should definitely be proud. And im not having any kids by the way. I used to be one of them, I hate them.

[nrmax88]

Jason, what u r saying obviously makes sense, but just not to a block head like brosius. The sox had nothing to lose by letting him walk, Mats had everything to lose. Boras did what he had to do, and MATS signed the deal, not boras. Brosius makes it sound like he knows boras personally, but really hes just talking out of his ass. D mat would rather play here, for 8 mil, then in japan, for 2 or 3. You make it sound like 8 million is nothing. You cant spend 8 million dollars a year anyway unless you have a drug or gambling problem. Brosius is upset because the deal was made, and his little dream of having Dmats contract bought out by boras so he can come to the yankees is over. Get over it, you just look like a dumbass trying to act like you know hwat your talking about

[ScottBrosius]

nrmax,

like I said, i'm not upset the deal was made. I am not upset at the sox. I am mad at Boras because he spent all this time in a pissing contest and then got schooled.

I've already said it five times. The Sox needed to do this deal as much as Matz. They did not want to allienate the asian market, which not signing DMatz would have done. Matz did have leverage. Both sides wanted, really needed the deal to get done. That situation happens a lot, and good agents get fair market value for their players. Boras came nowhere close to that. He also got screwed on the years.

but, you guys seem to want to believe both that (1) this guy is worth the 51 fee because of his market value in japan and his status as a national treasure, and (2) the sox didn't need to sign him because the asians wouldn't have cared so d-matz had no leverage.

This makes no sense. Boras sucks. Whenever anyone says how great of an agent he is, I will point to this. He might be great in the pissing contests, which any fool can run, but he can't get a deal done in this type of circumstance, which is very common.

[wihargo]

the deal for Mats is a very fair one, and a winner for Boras. He's probably writing a new 300 page chapter for his Barry Zito promotional book that justifies a similar 100 million expenditure.

Seriously, I would love to see one of those books.

[toshiro]

For everyone who would like to use the phrase 'before he's thrown one pitch', here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daisuke_Matsuzaka

He's thrown LOTS of pitches and is without peer by a LONG shot in Japan. Totally dominant. Probably should treat him like he's just some chump.

[wihargo]

you could point to the D-Mat deal, or even the Matt Harrington fiasco and say that Boras sucks. But there are very strong counter arguments like getting Magglio Ordonez that huge contract without letting anyone take a look at him bum kness, or the Ivan Rodriguez deal, ARod's 252 million, Matt White's 10 million bonus, the whole signing bonus escalation thing.

my favorite: getting his cut of Andruw Jones' deal that Jones negotiated himself.

whether or not he extracted the absolute maximum value out of the Red Sox in this case, he is still a hell of an agent

[beeniez]

"For everyone who would like to use the phrase 'before he's thrown one pitch', here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daisuke_Matsuzaka"

It also says the following about D-Mat on Wikipedia:
"He is afraid of black people, they are bigger and he has never seen one in person."

Maybe you should find another site that's more trustworthy, haha. Wikipedia is a joke.

[nrmax88]

Brosius your right, u have said it 5 times, each time as wrong as the time before. The redsox didnt have anything to lose here. They didnt need to sign him. He needed the sox so much more then they needed him. Do you really think if the fans got mad for not signing him, that it would make a difference, do you really think people would stop going to games or something? Who gives a shit if they made the asians mad? What difference does that make either? Like honestly, do you think Theo was sitting there thinking, hmmmm I really dont want the asians to be mad at me. I better make this deal. The redsox got by for years without buying japanese baseball players, im sure they really dont care how mad they made the asiam people. If the deal wasnt right, they wouldnt have made it. Regardless of what the asians think. Your still wrong, you can say it 5 more time if u want. Go cry in your room for a few days because the redsox got Dice K. It isnt changing the fact that they got him. Get over it dude. Boras didnt have any leverage besides the fact the he had the option to walk. This ultimately didnt come down to whether he wanted mats to walk or not. He didnt get schooled. At all. Why would the redsox bid against themselves, when they were the only team who had the rights to sign him? It is obvious he would have played here, probably for 3 million a year if it came down to it. You make it sound like he is going to be lined up on the poverty line because he is only making 8 million plus a year. Puhhhh-leaseeee. Your just mad because this made the redsox better, and its obvious. Like i keep saying, Boras didnt get schooled, Mats is still making millions a year, and pitching where he wants to. Everybody wins here. Everyone accept you and your yankees. Booohoooo.

[nrmax88]

This situation is very common? How often does only 1 team have the rights to negotiate with a player, or else he is forced to leave the country, and play for a team who he doesnt want to play for, and who doesnt want him. MATS HAD ABSOLUTELY NO LEVERAGE ACCEPT GOING BACK TO JAPAN, WHICH HE WASNT DOING. AND AGAIN... WHO REALLY CARES IF THE ASIANS WERE MAD AT THE REDSOX FOR NOT SIGNING THEIR GUY? WHAT DIFFERENCE WOULD THIS EVER MAKE FOR BOSTON? Its not like it stops them from bidding on posted players in the future. Your arguement is so bad its almost funny. Boras is by far the best agent around right now. Your simply a moron and i dont know why i am arguing with your stupid ass

[ArodSucksAtLife]

Calm down dude, hit up the ritalin.

[nrmax88]

Uhhh dude bro dude, nobody is talking to u dude, you have a werid way of getting into arguements that dont involve you dude. Dude dude dude bro dude

[YankeeBaseball]

Real Nice signing by the Saux. With that pitching rotation, they should be tough to beat this year...