New-Age Stats

Murray Chass has had enough.  Enough of Roger, Bernie, and A-Rod.  Me too, despite the generation gap between Chass and I.  Still, I know that 70 year-old guys and 25 year-old guys are going to have different takes on the game of baseball.  This is only logical.  But to create this divide between those who like stats and those who don't is silly.  If I brought up VORP to my grandpa or the guys at work the baseball conversations would die pretty quickly.  There are many different ways to appreciate the game.

Chass, however, comes out firing against "new-age" statistics. Baseball Prospectus keeps its cool and would just like to talk. Meanwhile, Fire Joe Morgan shot back with the venom I was craving.

Comments

[kevmill21]

i actually completely despise VORP, but i guess it has some value, but i would never take it into account when evaluating someone's worth

OBP OBP OBP OBP OBP OBP

[Chase035]

steriod probe in new york has named Gary Matthews Jr. as a recipient, among other Major Leaguers. This could be pretty big. They are saying the Steelers purchased over $150,000 worth in 2006. So umm, yea, maybe thats how they could win the super bowl out of nowhere then fall flat on their face. Starting to get the impression that steriods are even more prevalent in sports than we thought. And I think its back in baseball. Todd Helton could not possibly add 30 lbs of muscle in 3 1/2 months naturally. Not at his age.

[RotoAuthority]

Don't we just know that GMJ has shopped there, not that it was roids?

[nickjs21]

Fire Joe Morgan has always been one of the cruelest, funniest, mostest-awesomest sites ever when it comes to dealing with close-minded sportswriting.

[Ripwa]

I think what makes me feel like a real dork is the fact that i actually just got mad about this. Honestly, what an idiot.

[CubsAddictMG]

I normally try to maintain a middle ground in the old school vs. new school debate. I find that in sports, as in life, extreme positions are seldom correct and that the best concept is usually one formed by the synthesis of two apparently contradictory ideas. (Just call me Hegel.)

But the comment "People play baseball. Numbers don’t" is the stupidest thing I've read in quite a while, and I read the Chicago Tribune pretty regularly. Does he really not understand the connection between people and numbers? That is, that people produce numbers, which in turn affect the outcome of a baseball game. By his sweeping statement, we shouldn't look at even ERA or AVG, or even hits or runs allowed. I don't believe, as many do, that modern statistical analysis is the only or even the best method of evaluating players, but it certainly is important.

This guy strikes me as the kind of guy that would play Neifi Perez 140 games a year because he's a gritty veteran ballplayer, never mind the fact that every stat you could look at would prove that he sucks.

[Chase035]

Meh, its like behavior. We could sit here arguing til we're blue in the face whether its genes or environment, but the answer is, its both. I do get frustrated in the modern era when people through numbers out there and dismiss the scouting perspective. But I'm just as frustrated by this old dope.

[Dave]

Anyone who doesn't take the time to understand the concepts they are writing about, and to dispel them without considering what they mean or the effects they have or are the result of...is a complete moron and deserves to be completely ignored.

[plh903]

I could give a flying fuck whether or not Murray Chasshat knows what VORP is.

But, when he ostensibly triumphs ignorance over reasonable edification, that's lunacy. He did this in national print.

It's a much more meaningless scale, I mean it's just baseball, but it would be akin to me proclaiming "Muslims are wrong and there is no reasonable argument to the contrary" I refuse to learn anything about their beliefs, I just know they are. They are bringing down an entire nations enjoyment of daily life.

The hyperbole of the "effect of advanced understanding of the game we all love" is astounding.

[wihargo]

Hey, when did Helton gain that weight? If it was after he had his bout with that illness, then that could go a long way towards explaining it. BTW who determines how much muscle a guy gained? Do the players determine this on their own, or does a team doctor do it or what?

[SiddFinch]

What rubs these old-timers amongst others the wrong way about the new stats is the arrogant way they are thrown about as if they are the be all end all to enjoying and understanding the game, as if watching the games is an afterthought which is looked down upon. I often get the impression some of the authors of these modern stat laden diatribes have not even watched the player they are ranting or raving about. Is there a stat that tells me if a guy can hit a curveball the other way on a 1-2 count? How 'bout a stat for a baserunner who gets a good jump and can go 1st to third on a single up the middle?

[miltie]

"I normally try to maintain a middle ground in the old school vs. new school debate. I find that in sports, as in life, extreme positions are seldom correct and that the best concept is usually one formed by the synthesis of two apparently contradictory ideas. (Just call me Hegel.)"

Wow. Now I've seen it all. A Hegel reference on a baseball blog. How very cool. Mad props CubsAddict. And from a fellow cubs fan as well. Nice.

[Jonathan Ullberg]

Matter of fact, why don't we just stop keeping score, since we wouldn't want the game to get bogged down by unnecessary new age numbers. All we really need to see is a bunch of guys playing the game. There doesn't need to be any winners.

Pathetic that this idiot can be paid for that.

[CubsAddictMG]

It's all about the synthesis baby!

[aklaft]

"Is there a stat that tells me if a guy can hit a curveball the other way on a 1-2 count? How 'bout a stat for a baserunner who gets a good jump and can go 1st to third on a single up the middle?"

Yes

[plh903]

>

Name one. Hurry, before you die of old age.

[plh903]

I mean an author of one of these sites that doesn't watch baseball, not a stat that tells you that, there are a ton of those.