Garland For Renteria Discussed?

Found via Buster Olney's blog: Peter Gammons suggested that the White Sox and Braves have discussed a Jon Garland for Edgar Renteria swap.

Renteria, soon to turn 32, is hitting better this year than he ever has.  He's quite a bargain for Atlanta, because the Red Sox are footing much of the bill.  Assuming Boston's $8MM contribution was spread evenly for 2006-08, the Braves are paying Renteria about 6.66MM this year and the same in 2008.  Renteria also has an $11MM option for 2009 on which Boston would pay the $3MM buyout if necessary.  At present it seems very likely to be exercised though.  Yunel Escobar can handle shortstop defensively, so the Braves have an in-house replacement.  Kelly Johnson deserves to be playing every day.

Garland will turn 28 in September.  He's making $10MM this year and $12MM in '08.  He'd give the Braves some much-needed stability, and the team would have a formidable front four of John Smoltz, Tim Hudson, Chuck James, and Garland.  Despite a lack of strikeouts, Garland should be able to keep his ERA under 4 in the NL.  One concern is that Garland has a persistent knot in his throwing shoulder, though it doesn't hurt and he thinks he will just pitch through it for the rest of his career.

If Kenny Williams can't come up with a shortstop this summer, I could see him going after Omar Vizquel, who he tried to sign in the winter of 2004-05.

Comments

[Chipper]

I don't want to trade Edgar, I'd rather trade Yunel and another player to get Garland. And I think you mean a front three of Smoltz, Hudson, Garland, and the back end of James and Carlyle.

[Torchy]

Finally a braves rumor that doesn't include Salty! Rent leaving has been whispered for most of the year and I think JS would be willing to part with him. His production has been stellar and his D is superb, but he does cost money that the braves could spend on pitching. As they already have an in house replacement that could even fill his spot in the order I can't see much of an incentive to keep Rent if we can get a solid starter.

[tsizzle]

Starting pitching is more valuable than a starting SS. I'd imagine the White Sox turned this down because you don't give up a young, durable starter for a 32-year-old SS. A prospect, reliever, something else would have to come over.

[Aduncaroo]

Yeah...I don't know. I would think Kenny would try to go younger and cheaper before going after Edgar. You never know though...they are going to have to replace Dye's offense somehow, and we all know Uribe won't be back...

Now that I think of it, this makes some sense on both sides. I would think that there might need to be another prospect included....B level or so.I just don't see Garland signing for cheap to Chicago after next year....so they would probably be wise to get Edgar, whose contract is GREAT with Boston paying as much as they are.

[bsox1838]

What about Julio Lugo has a possible SS for the Chi Sox. After his horrendous slump, he has caught fire.

[SoxWin]

I read about this rumor yesterday on a different site and I believe it was turned down. This would be a pretty big steal for the Barves IMO, you get more than an old SS for a good AL #3 starting pitcher.

[striker]

No way KW does this. Garland won 36 games from 2005-2006. Pitching is also way more valuable than a SS. Atlanta would have to add more.

Remember, KW rejected a trade with Houston that would have brought Tavarez, Hirsch and Buckholz. 3 players for one. I doubt he would do Renteria straight up.

[beauhoopman]

The white sox need to rebuild. This does not involve acquiring old SS's with large contracts, even if they are very good. The sox need young position players.

[tsizzle]

Rebuild? Their current rotation is better than a lot of contenders. They have some holes to fill, but they don't have to go through a rebuilding process.

[darkstar1661]

Huh, the team finds themselves tied for 5th in the AL-C this morning and they are still thinking about competing next year instead of rebuilding? Hehehe…

I think Garland for E-Rent is a good trade for both sides, but I would think there might need to be some cash headed to Atl to even out the money as well as possibly a low level guy headed to Chi because of that. Chi currently has no one for the middle infield and the FA market is extremely thin. Signing Omar would be a horrible mistake because of his age ~ he would just be an expensive stopgap… Besides, he hates the team so not sure if he would want to play on the Southside.

It will be interesting if the ChiSox open 08 with the current rotation since they keep saying there are so many arms in their system ready to take over. Holding onto current guys like Garland, Contreras and Vasquez is counter productive to the long-term success of the team. 2 of the 3 almost need to go at this point, and they need to be dealt to solve the 2B, SS and OF problems that will plague the team next year if action isn’t taken…

[Doctor Lingerie]

I don't care how halfway-decent the front half of the White Sox rotation is, when you have hands-down the worst pen in MLB and you're starting six guys a night who are playing below replacement level, you're not competing next year in a division with Detroit and Cleveland (let alone Minnesota and KC).

The Sox can deal starting pitching and get away with it, especially with more than one seemingly viable option at Charlotte and Birmingham. Gavin Floyd aside, Haegar's been very good for the past two months and Jack Egbert seems like he can eventually make the jump with his groundballing-no HR ways. I think Gio needs him some AAA first, but they're dealing from a position of strength right now in terms of starting pitching. I don't like the idea of acquiring a 32-year-old either, but this seems right up Williams' alley.

[tsizzle]

Some forget that Kenny Williams built that 2005 team starting midway through 2004. The Sox will have two 3B next year with Crede coming back, and Fields; they have an outfield replacement in Sweeney, and a 2B replacement in Richar. Fields could be moved to LF, so that would move Sweeney to right. Suddenly we have holes at only CF and SS, position-wise. Both are out there to be had in the free agent market, or they could be filled with one of our current starters/Dye.

The rotation is solid, and with a surplus of young arms, they can easily fill that 5th spot. The bullpen is the big hole. Thornton and MacDougal should bounce back, Jenks is solid, go after Linebrink, make a trade for another, and use that final spot for a guy from the organization (Wasserman, Aardsma, Logan, Russell, etc.).

[beauhoopman]

Any lineup with Josh Fields, Ryan Sweeney, Danny Richar, Juan Uribe, and Darin Erstad cannot compete. It simply doesnt matter how good the rotation is.

[darkstar1661]

Yeah, must have been tough taking a 2nd place team 3yrs running and “building” them into a 1st place team by replacing a couple guys…

That being the case, I have complete faith that KW should be able to take a team 11G under .500 & currently tied for 5th, and “building” them into a winner using a bunch of guys with little-to-no experience in the lineup coupled with the likes of Crede (unwanted by most in Chi), Thome (injury waiting to happen) and an AJ (LgAvg catcher)… I mean all he has to do is use the mid-level kids and find a CF, SS & most of a bullpen to pull off this trick?

Lookout Det, Cle and Minn…

[Aduncaroo]

TSizzle...

I like the Sox, don't get me wrong. But every single thing you mentioned is best case scenario. Do you really believe that every prospect you mentioned is going to come up and succeed? I would say at best you would get 1 out of 3 that turn out to be solid...so no, that doesn't fill all of your holes. They have a lot of work to do....

I still think there should be a crosstown trade that sends Dye to the Cubs for something like Ohman and Cedeno, who is tearing up AAA. That might solve SS and help the Pen...while providing Salary relief as well....just a thought.

[Aduncaroo]

You can have Murton too if you want him...that would replace Dye if you don't have anything better....

[SoxWin]

darkstar I just wanted to make sure I was reading this correctly. Garland and cash to ATL for Renteria?!? ...and you think that is a good deal?

IMO for this to be a good trade it would take Renteria, a good prospect and a lower level prospect for this to be a good deal. Garland is no 'Ace' by any means and has probably had a bit of luck working on his side, but he is still a solid #3 in the AL and would probably be even better in the NL, I bet he could hit good for a pitcher as well.

[beauhoopman]

I think the point here is that the White Sox would be better served with Escobar - he's younger, cheaper, and under control for quite some time.

[SoxWin]

I don't know much about Yunel but isn't he a 3B, or is he a kind of an all over the infield kind of guy?

[darkstar1661]

SoxWin,

Nah, said Garland + Cash for Renteria + Prospect...

SS is a thin market right now, it seems pretty tough to find someone as solid as E-Rent (as evident by Omar being the other option). The fact that this trade was discussed shows that the Sox are probably interested. Renteria is also kinda cheap because of the BoSox picking up about 3M each year.

Escobar for Garland would of course make a ton more sense for anyone not named Kenny Williams considering the Sox position; but KW doesn’t seem to think his situation is as bad as it really is… That being the case, E-Rent is atleast an established player for him to pencil in at SS…

[darkstar1661]

And yeah, Escobar is said to be a solid defender at any of the infield positions…

[SoxWin]

Ok that makes more sense.

Something needs to be done via trade because like you said the market is thin, I'm still hoping we can send Dye to the Angels and perhaps get one of their infield prospects they have a few....

If the Sox sign Vizquel I think they are in about as much trouble with Uribe, albeit he is a little bit of an upgrade, he is 41 and having a bad year...so who knows what you are going to get.

[darkstar1661]

Sox,

I don’t think the Angeles have too much interest in Dye because with the way he has been playing this year, he is similar to Anderson who they would rather be without themselves… If they did trade for him, I don’t think they would give up much and a better haul could probably be had else ware… They want a big powerful bat and have historically been reluctant to trade anything prospect wise ~ don’t count on them…

And Pitching is really the spot where the ChiSox will get the most return. Interest in Dye has been lukewarm as a whole, interest in Beuhrle, Garland, Vasquez and surprisingly even Contreras has been much heavier ~ and this is the area the Sox actually have prospects who could help… (Well, unless they feel they aren’t as good as they are hyping them I guess…)

There is no point to keep 4 expensive starters if you have 3 or 4 coming up the pipe you claim are just as good if not better…

And yeah, Omar is a horrible idea for them! Even if he plays ok for a year, he will still cost good money and you still have to replace him in 09…

[Metsin07]

the braves arent going anywhere they are going tobe a mess next year

[rype123]

I don't agree that one of Garland or Vazquez has to be traded. I think the best thing to do would be to trade Contreras, and leave the other 3. It's not unheard of to have 3 mid market paid pitchers on your staff. Then when they have a 2nd rookie fill in the 5 spot next year, they can see how he does. If he is doing well, then you trade Garland/Vazquez. If I'm KW I don't trade either one of them unless you get a kings ransom for them. I'm talking Renteria and a top level prospect at least, depending on who that prospect is.

[striker]

darkstar1661 "interest in Dye has be lukewarm as a whole".

So you are kept in the loop of all major league trade talk? You have inside connections?

You have no idea what is going on. Neither do any of us. We are all just speculating.

I'm betting there is interest in Dye. He is a good player, and has been producing this year. His avg just sucks.

[smscardinals1]

I think the trade helps both ball clubs...With young players maturing, this could be rebuilding for the sox while adding a good veteran...Rentaria's consistency is what the Sox need with a low OBP and AVG...

They will feature a starting cast of buehrle, vazquez, contreras?, and john danks, charlie haeger, gio gonzalez, and gavin floyd competing for the final 2 or 3 spots.

The Braves have yunel escobar more than ready to take over as starting shortstop with star prospect elvis andrus developing..When Chipper calls it quits, yunel can move over to 3rd...

This trade makes perfect sense for both clubs..

[FiNch]

As much as I love Edgar Renteria, I think the Braves need to make this trade if it is, in fact, a legitimate possibility. Escobar has been very impressive on both sides of the ball.

Since Kelly Johnson has proven he is a very good 2nd baseman, Escobar has only shortstop to play.

John Garland would be a perfect guy to slot behind Smoltz and Hudson. This move could make the Braves serious contenders.

Oh, and Metsin07, I don't think the braves are much worse off than the mets. Your top 3 pitchers are over 35, and do you really think Pedro can come back and be all that dominant?

Besides, other than CF, in what ways will the Braves be in a huge mess in 08? They'll get back Mike Gonzalez and possibly (although I don't count on it) Mike Hampton.

[Thundersticks]

If I'm the Braves, I trade Edgar & Davies for Vazquez & cash. Vazquez is a slightly better SP than Garland IMO, is only couple of years older, and is still comparably priced. I know that's a king's ransom, but that is what it will take to get the kind of SP we need. Like smscardinals said, we have Escobar ready to take over at SS until Elvis is ready, then he can move over to 3B to replace Chipper. Davies needs a change of scenery.

[darkstar1661]

Striker

Yeah, I imagine there is some interest ~ but, please tell me which team has been looking for a “Big bat” that carries a .227/.284 line and a strained quad?

Everything I have heard from radio reports and on here says that most teams pretty much have a better option in house already and it would make trading valuable prospects rather pointless. I can’t think of many contenders which would actually benefit a ton from having his bat in the lineup, can you?

With Young, Tex, Dunn and a couple others also possibly available and KWs previous huge return demand, which team do you think will bite? Shoot, even Sanders or Stairs would probably be as good of an option and come a lot cheaper as far as prospects go…

Rype,

It may not be of the utmost importance, but how many SP rookies are knocking on the door right now? Like 3 with Danks also having a spot for 08 I believe… Keeping Mark/Garland/Vasquez/Danks means only 1 of the 3 gets a shot…

What would be the real point of waiting to trade Garland midway through next year as well when he would be a rental at that point and logically bring less in return? Besides, the prospects in that return wouldn’t be playing the rest of 07 for the ChiSox which could also be a huge asset as they will better know how 08 will play out and where money needs to be spent.

I just think it makes a lot more sense trading like Garland and Contreras for top prospects (or E-Rent like is rumored in Garlands case) and be able to fill that 08 lineup out as soon as possible so you know where to focus in the offseason.

[rype123]

darkstar,

It's not very often when 4 out of 4 rookies make it, even highly touted ones. the pitchers mentioned were Gio Gonzalez, Egbert, Haeger and Floyd. Egbert is an unknown, who I didn't even hear of until recently, Haeger is a knuckle baller, and right now the Sox don't have a catcher who I'd trust to catch him if he was a starter (even though I'd like to see him succeed in our rotation), and Floyd has already seemed to flame out in Phily, (he will be given another start tomorrow). Gio doesn't seem ready, but who knows if he'll live up to his promises. The other 2 guys they have waiting, McCullah and Broadway are both back-end starters, who may not make it either.

To expect 2 of them to step up, and 1 to come close to matching what Garland gives you, even say 15 wins, is a long shot. I already said, if someone offers KW a kings ransom, take it, I don't think you can trade him for Renteria.

If they aren't going to compete like you say, I'd rather take my chances with a 27 year old pitcher whom they could possibly re-sign, over a 32 year old SS. A top of the rotation pitcher is harder to find than a SS. (I know Renteria is a very good SS), but him straight up isn't enough for a top pitcher.

and for top prospects, Renteria isn't a top prospect, he's a 32 year old SS. I'll keep my top 3 pitchers.

[Aduncaroo]

Dude...the Sox aren't going to sign Garland after next year. There will be no hometown discount, and Garland is going to say "look at my win totals the last 4 years, I should be a 15 mil a year guy for 4 or 5 years." And he will get it...at least. And it won't be from the Sox and KW. If you can have one of the games best SS for this year, next, and a pretty good option year after that....I think you should take it. Maybe not straight up, but if they give you another prospect that might be able to contribute next year or the year after....I don't know man, you at least have to consider that.

[rype123]

I already said Renteria and a top prospect and it would be worth it.

You talk like it's a fact that the Sox won't re-sign Garland. Just like everyone said with a fact that they wouldn't sign Buehrle. Garland and Buehrle are good friends, I could see Garland wanting to re-sign with the Sox, especially if they make improvements. Nobody knows if he'll take a hometown discount. Maybe if he's offered the same contract as Buehrle, he takes it.

The fact is, nobody knows whether Garland will re-sign with the Sox, not KW, not Garland, and definitely not me or you.

[Aduncaroo]

I agree...we don't know for sure. But nearly every insider says that Garland will NOT take that same kind of hometown discount. And to be honest, the Sox were acting like Buehrle was just killing them to offer even that...and it was a steal!

Garland isn't taking that contract and do you believe that KW is going to offer him more than they offered their Ace? I'm sorry, but I give it about a 10% chance of him re-signing with them.

Does anyone else disagree?

[GoBoSox420]

KW should be fired if he accepts Renteria straight up for Garland.

I guarantee a handful of other teams could make that offer look even more pathetic than it already is

[rype123]

Every insider also said Buehrle was going to be traded. There was also an insider that said he had signed 2 weeks prior to actually signing. They know more than the average fan, but I wouldn't take an insiders word as fact. Once again, nobody knows if he will resign, not even the Sox or Garland, so how do insiders know? Even if Garland stated he wouldn't take a hometown discount, that still doesn't mean anything, he could still take one. There is a full year until next seasons trade deadline, and a lot could happen between now and then. I know he voiced displeasure during the Buehrle negotiations, but only because he thought that Buehrle wasn't going to sign

[Aduncaroo]

I am just saying this:

If I were KW...I wouldn't plan on Garland signing again if I won't go bigger than Mark B's contract....thats all I'm saying and I think most would agree with it. If he does, great, thats awesome for Kenny, but I think it would be stupid not to think about him leaving.

[GoBoSox420]

You weren't really saying that. You were saying Garland IS going to leave and as a result KW should take what he could get now.

Either way, if he is traded today or next year as a rental he is worth more than Edgar Renteria.

[Aduncaroo]

I believe that he is going to leave...and they need to plan like he is.

You are right, he is worth more, just not a bunch more. Thats why I said Renteria + good prospect for Garland would be fair.

[darkstar1661]

Leaving or not, it’s still a great trade for the Sox!!!

The ChiSox have pitchers who can take Garlands place right now! There are currently 4 prospects for what stands at NO spots in the rotation? Even if half of them don’t pan out, you will never know unless they are given a spot… and hello, we are talking about a LgAvg pitcher here, its not the hardest thing to find from 4 pitching prospects with ceilings higher than that…

AND where else will the Sox get a Star SS? Spend twice as much money for Furcal off the FA market maybe? Sure, the Sox apparently have an endless supply of money… Infact, why don’t they just sign A-Rod for SS, Andrew Jones for CF, resign Dye, maybe trade the pitching prospects you don’t want to give a shot for O-Dawg and Dunn and they can spend 250Million for their 08 team…

Whether KW tries to stick with this idea of competing in 08 or not, this trade makes sense. If he does plan to use 08 to retool a bit he will be doing so with a Star SS which he will have in 09; if he does plan on competing then he has a Star SS and a pitching prospect making less than the LgAvg pitcher they traded meaning there is more money to spend elseware…

[rype123]

The White Sox have pitchers they can put into the rotation, they don't have any that will take Garland's place. If they trade Contreras, that will give up a spot for one of those pitchers anyway. Right now, I'd say the only pitcher in the Sox high minors that has a higher ceiling than what Garland is giving them now is Gio Gonzalez, and he probably won't be ready until at least next year. But if they trade both Garland and Contreras, there is still 1 other person that needs to be put into the rotation. They aren't going to compete next year with 3/5ths of the rotation having 1st and 2nd year players in it. And to top it all off, you are still trading a 27 year old pitcher entering his prime for a 32 year old SS, and who knows when he'll start declining, possibly as soon as next year.

In order for Garland to be traded, they will have to get guys to fill at least 2 holes in their roster. So it would need to be Renteria plus a guy who will be ready next year. A hole in the rotation is worse than a hole at 1 position. The Sox already had the "black hole" 5 spot a few years ago, and that didn't help them compete, and that was with Jose Valentin at SS.

[yeahright]

You guys are all crazy. This is a terrible deal for the BRAVES not the Sox. Renteria is one of the best, most consistent shortstops in MLB. AND he's terrific this year. Garland doesn't strike anyone out. He has a career 4.50 ERA. He makes 12 Mil next year, which is twice the amount the Braves are paying Renteria. JS should never do this deal. I don't care if Garland won 18 games the previous two years. Won-loss records are entirely overrated and he is DEFINITELY not worth Edgar Renteria.