Let's Make A Deal: Edgar Renteria

How about the Marlins with Scott Olsen? Hanley could move to CF.

If Renteria could handle 2B, the Rockies could offer up Aaron Cook.

With that said, I really like the match up that Renteria & Lowry provide.

I like the idea of Sean Marshall for Renteria, but if the Cubs added a Kevin Hart, or Angel Guzman, or a decent INF like Cedeno, could we get a pitcher in return? The Cubs need another starter more than anything right now, particularly a RHP.

Its not worth trading him for Robertson. They could get something better

"Its not worth trading him for Robertson. They could get something better"

I feel that way about Lowry. Since when is a pitcher having pretty much his career year to this point, has a whip of over 1.50, a career whip of 1.39, a strikeout to walk ratio in 2007 of exactly 1/1, worth a shortstop with a pretty good gloved shortstop that is going to hit .300 for you. Lowry walks to many, doesnt strike out many, and gives up a hit per inning. I dont get what is so special about him.

The Blue Jays don't have the money for Renteria and they signed John McDonald to that moronic contract to be the starting shortstop.

Lowry for Renteria makes sense. Well, for the Braves. The Giants should rebuild.

Braves get-
Anthony Reyes
Brad Thompson
Cards #1 minor league 1b prospect (Teix Insurance)

Cards get-
Edgar Renteria

Kelly cannot play any of the outfield positions anymore. So quit coming up with the "Kelly moves to center" idea....

With the great depth of middle infielders the braves have if they packaged Kelly Johnson along with Renteria they might be able to get another ace. What about KJ and Renteria for Matt Cain. Or the Braves could add Chuck James to the package and see if they could sway away Roy Oswalt from the Astros. Think about it, Escobar is set to take over SS fulltime. Martin Prado led the international league in hitting this year and is an outstanding 2b defensively so he could play 2b. The Braves also have Brent Lillibridge, who by all indications is going to be a star in the big leagues at either ss or 2b. My point is that as good as Renteria and Kelly Johnson are, they are expendable and good get a very good pitcher in return

None of you that are suggesting Renteria to the Cards must be Cardinal fans. Otherwise you'd know by now the Cards can't afford Renteria

"What about KJ and Renteria for Matt Cain."

wtf. are you kidding me? that is one trade that is not happening. the giants are not going to get rid of two potential aces (the first being francisco liriano) in this decade. they made too many bad trades. trading matt cain will not help.

I cant see the Giants trading Cain or Lowry for Renteria, maybe Yunel but not Edgar, they arnt that close to winning, and want to get younger not older.

"As I stated in the Cards needs and Luxury thread..."

It's right here. AND YOU POSTED IN IT!!!

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/09/needs-and-lux-5.html#comments

"None of you that are suggesting Renteria to the Cards must be Cardinal fans. Otherwise you'd know by now the Cards can't afford Renteria"

Sure they can. With Boston chipping in around $3 million this year, Renteria's contract becomes $6 M for 08.

With David Eckstein's $4.5 coming off the books this season, they just need to cover $1.5 M to afford Renteria.

So they can either try to get the Braves to chip in some cash or use the money from someone else coming off the books like Mike Maroth to pay for Renteria.

Edgar Renteria for Micah Owings. Diamondbacks are a team no one really talks about when needing a SS. While I like Stephen Drew he just hasn't cut it this year and this would be a win now type of move for the D-Backs.

I think the Giants would be more interested in acquiring Lillibridge (my pref) or Escobar for Lowry (or another pitcher) than they would Renteria.

What about Rich Hill for Renteria? And IF Renteria is NOT enough what could the Braves add to get Hill?

HL,

One thing there, They have already said they plan on not using Izzy's option and want to sign him to a new deal, probably 2-3 years so his contract goes up. I wouldn't be so quick to assume they non tender Maroth, at around 3 to 3 1/2 million, he's a cheaper flyer than they took on Wells and very easily might be back to battle for a job in ST. Pineiro's option is a player only option. So he will definitely opt out and cost more. Cards have already said they'd like to have him back. So he's gonna at least be in the 6 range. Don't be so fast to count Taguchi out. If TLR is back without major budget concessions, He's not going to carry 4 LH hitting OF'ers. Ludwick and So would be on the bench and Schumaker would be traded. So there I have spent more than you had them saving. And they still need to bring in a solid #3 starter. So I think we should all just forget about Renteria and just get used to the fact it will be another year of Kennedy, Miles and Ryan for better or worse. Plus they want both Percival and Springer back, so they both will get a raise after the seasons they have had.

Well Jay, you are looking in the right place in terms of minnasota, but you get stupid when you completely overvalue garza. The braves would not do escobar for garza. We are attempting to trade renteria because we have a capable backup in escobar, so escobar is more than likely not going anywhere. Now, i like scott baker a ton, and would love a renteria for baker type deal, but that is not happening, the twins have a purty good shortstop in barlett, and probably would not see the producation from bartlett to renteria being worth scott baker.

I see renteria going somewhere for a veteran pitcher, along the lines of a Jon Garland. However, I think the best trade may be for javier vazquez, but i do not see the whitesox setting on just renteria alone. I like rich hill from the cubs, and think that a deal could be struck, but the braves may be giving up too much. Trading Renteria is a move that we want to make in an attempt to a get a better picthcer, but a move that is not just guaranteed, which means we are probably not going to send renteria + our best prospects for a pitcher, we want proven success for proven success, which means we are probably going after a veteran.

With that being said, maybe the tigers can workout. And as an idea, what about robertson and and a young low level and B prospect arm, that way the braves can get a great arm to solidfy the rotation now, while getting young pitching depth and a potential starter in the future. I am by no means talking about Jair Jurrigens or Andrew miller, but perhaps like a Virgil Vasquez or Zah Minor (Who i would love to have back, but am not sure if he or the braves want to reunite after his comments).

It absolutely kills me to read that maybe the Jays would give Burnett for Renteria. Here's a reality check for all you Americans (because clearly all players playing north of the border receive zero exposure - that's the only thing that can explain many of you knowing next to NOTHING about them) - AJ Burnett has the 8th best ERA amongst starters in the AL on the season, and that's in an injury plagued year. Since the All-Star break (and his latest injury) Burnett leads ALL OF BASEBALL in starters ERA. And he makes an extremely reasonable 11m. There is simply no way the Jays would trade an 11m potential ace for an 11m SS who happens to hit RH (something the Jays desperately do not need) and is coming off his career season (and thus completely overvalued considering he had arguably his worst season ever facing AL East pitching).

Ozzie,
Couple things:
* Mike Maroth will not be back. If he is, you've increased his cost, not decreased it. He isn't going to make MORE money next year after qualifying for the worst ERA in the history the NL.
* I have read nothing about Izzy being extended, and I would think they've learned their lesson with Edmonds as far as signing damaged goods to multi-year extensions. If Izzy's option is declined, he won't be making MORE a year over 2 years. The idea would be to give him more over 2 years but less over each. I HAVE to believe Jocketty learned his lesson with Edmonds.
* If Taguchi comes back, which is doubtful for a 39 year old defensive replacement who is in an already crowded OF, Skip or Ludwick will have to be traded, thus allowing the Cardinals to fill a need elsewhere.

Honestly, your case that the Cardinals have no room payroll wise makes little sense. If Chris Carpenter doesn't make it back until mid-season, they get payroll relief from insurance taken out on his elbow for his contract.

Anthony Reyes will either have a spot in the rotation or be traded. He either fills a need in one spot or brings in something else to fill a need in another.

The Cardinals have prospects in PJ Walters who (if they honestly wanted Mike Maroth back) is a cheaper version with more potential and Bryan Anderson to replace Gary Bennett as the backup catcher ($1 M contract).

To think that they couldn't expand the payroll by $2 M to replace David Eckstein for 1 year just doesn't jive. Short term contracts are what DeWitt is all about. Remember the 3 years/ $42 M after they had already signed Kip Wells? That extra $14 M wasn't spent elsewhere.

Payroll isn't going to jump to $120 M but it is much more flexible than you make it seem.

Yo shut the hell up with your wah wah boohoo the Canadians get no exposure, nobody cares. Tell that to the people trying to tell everyone that Alex Rios IS Vernon Wells last winter (which he is). If players are good, then fans that follow the game will know about them, whether they are from Canada, NY, or China. Go cry somewhere else, its not like people never post silly trade proposals on here. It has nothing at all to do with you being in Canada, so get over it. When some crazy cubbie fans were posting their crazy Jacque Jonez/ Cezar Izturiz/ Ronnie Cedeno for Felix Hernandez proposals last winter, you didnt hear anybody saying " Oh my god these dam east coasters dont follow the Seattle players enough you stupid east coasters." Give me a break. And just for the record, I know that nobody ever proposed a trade that ridiculous, it was just for example purposes.

Think Braves would take Marquis/Murton for Renteria? Marquis has proven he is an decent #5 with flashes of #3 - 7mil for 2 yrs is cheap for that. Too one sided? for which team?

hmmm... i dont think im overvalueing Garza at all. I would consider him among the elite prospects in the game and he would be an ace for years to come. I would gladly give Yunel, who we dont need, Prado, who we dont need, and Reyes, who we dont need... for a future ace. You thing Baker will be better???? you are out of your mind. Garza will be a #1 probably in the next year or two. And much better than Baker, Robertson, or anyone else.

I still say the Robertson for Renteria trade is BY FAR the most likely. I just don't see the White Sox really needing Renteria right now. I mean, do they really think they are going to compete for a title in the next 2 years? All Renteria does for the White Sox is add another fading star into a lineup that is FULL of them (Dye, Konerko, Thome)...

Robertson for Renteria is about as even a trade as you can get and will help out both teams who are both ready to win NOW...

“Robertson for Renteria is about as even a trade as you can get and will help out both teams who are both ready to win NOW...”

The problem with it comes in this though; the sole reason Det will be sitting at home this Oct is pitching…

Everyone knew (or atleast should have known) that their pitching was well over their head last year, and they are suffering the consequences now of that. Bonderman has looked horrible much of the time, Rogers has shown he shouldn’t be counted on, Miller is young and learning, Jurrjens cant be counted on, Maroth is gone now, Durbin hehehe… Who do they have past Verlander who doesn’t come with big questions? Trading Robertson could be a disaster…He’s not that great but atleast he’s a pretty steady on for a team who might need um.

Besides, who’s to say Nate is even enough to get Renteria? He’s been a 79, 92, 95, 118 & 90 ERA+ guys respectively over the last 5 years ~ that’s consistently below league average and the Braves should be expected to give up their AS-SS and best trading chip for him?

Cain has way more value than Lowry.

Giants won't trade Cain to ATL. The only team they should consider trading him to should be the Rays - and only then for 2-3 high- ceiling hitters.

Lowry's WHIP and BB/K #s aren't great, but he is very capable at getting hitters to GIDPs. He is definitely worth a young hitter or two in a market so devoid of starting pitching.

Braves- Sean Marshall
Cubs- Renteria and Villareal

or

Braves- Noah Lowry
Giants- Renteria or Escobar, Van Pope, and Prado

or

Braves- Ian Snell
Pirates- Escobar, Reyes, and Boyer

or

Braves- Joe Blanton
A's- Escobar, Eric Campbell, Reyes, Prado"

ha. ha. hahah. hahahahahahhaha. ok les do these one by one.

#1 - I'll make a little comparison here between Sean Marshall and Chuck James. They are both left handers. They are 25 and 26 years of age respectively. They both have bascially been pitching in the majors for 2 years. Marshall's line this year of 7-8, 4.00 ERA, 1.39 WHIP, a 1.88 K/BB rate, and 2.71 BAA looks strikingly similar to James' 11-10, 4.11 ERA, 1.38 WHIP, 1.92 K/BB rate, and .266 BAA. Hmmmmm. James does give up more homeruns and throws a lot of pitches, but he was better last year than Marshall and is a solid number 4 (for the Braves though he's a 3.) Now, how many of you would do Renteria for Chuck James alone? Probably not as many as Marshall. Why? I don't know. Marshall has much more of an injury past and wears down towards the end of a season. And to throw in a solid long reliever who's also 26 doesn't make senes. Edgar Renteria plays like he's 5 years younger, leads like he's 5 years older, and is one of the best guys in a team's clubhouse. The man can rake and for 6-6.5 mil next year, that's a great bargain. OK. Gotta go about a D+/C- here.

#2 - Noah Lowry is a very solid pitcher. But his numbers from 2005 to now go like this 3.78 ERA- 4.74 ERA-3.92 ERA. Good, but not great. 1.31 WHIP-1.39 WHIP-1.55 WHIP. Makes me a little worried there. 2.26 K/BB- 1.5 K/BB- 1 K/BB. Once again, a downward trend. The K per 9/IP are 7.56- 4.74- 5.02. He's a good pitcher soon to be just 27, but a staff ace? no. A number 2? On a bad team sure. Number 3? Probably maybe even number 4. He has great potential, but Esco or Rent and Pope or Prrado is stretching it. But with Pope and Prado, too, it's a bit much. More doable than the first, but I still say too much. Maybe a C+/B-

#3 - Snell for Yunel, Jo-Jo, and Blain Boyer. Snell is a legit 3 and likely good enough to be a 2 by the time Smoltz retires. He is a killer strikeout guy, he can eat innings, and has pretty good ERA and WHIP numbers. He is not even 26 yet, and has about 2.5 years of solid MLB time. His W/L record can't really be seen very accurately due to being on the Poopy Pirates. His value is likely a little higher than Mike Gonzalez's was last year when the Braves nabbed him and Lillibridge. Yunel is a solid guy and would start at SS for the Bucs. Jo-Jo would likely be the 4th or 5th starter and Blaine Boyer could also be in the back of the rotation. He's been a solid middle relief guy for the Braves in the majors, but has spent most of this year trying to become a starter at the International League Champion Richmond Braves. This is probably the best trade for the Braves of the three. While losing a 22 year-old stud with an awesome name and high potential would be tough, Snell may have as a high a ceiling and he is much closer to reaching it. Boyer isn't regarded as much of a prospect, but he is solid and doesn't try to do too much. I give this one a B+.

#4 - Finally, the Blanton trade. So basically, it's the Snell one with Campbell added in. Okay. Blanton is even more of an innings guy, he doesn't walk many, and he's gotta good ratios all around. Still though, why a career ERA over 4? And why is he not really better now than he was two years ago at 24 in his first season in the bigs? Personally, I'd have Snell over Blanton the slob. Snell can field pretty well (0 career errors), while Blanton (5 careeer errors in just a little more game) is not anything special. So adding in possibly the heir to Chipper for a guy on the same kind of level as Snell seems a little out there to me. Now granted, this is my first post on MLBTR, and no one really can trust my opinion, I know the Braves guys very well and know they're value. Probably a B+ like Snell except for the Campbell part so I say a B-.

Overall, I'm being a little harsh on the guy who made these trades up liekly off the top of his head, but I'm just trying to make a point here that some people really underestimate and overestimate people's values before they look at the facts and actually see the guys play a lot.

Whew. my hand hurts

Have a look at Dustin McGowan's #s, both for the season and especially post the All Star break. Here in Toronto he is considered a future "ace", and has been since the turn of the millenium. It's about time we start seeing some results from a guy who has been considered one of our top 5 prospects for YEARS.

I would certainly be inclined to trade Marcum for Renteria. Something else would have to come the Jays way though, in consideration for the fact that Marcum makes peanuts and Renteria makes 11m. The Jays actually have too many young arms and I'd love to see JP make a pre-emptive strike and sell high on at least one of them.

"Think Braves would take Marquis/Murton for Renteria? Marquis has proven he is an decent #5 with flashes of #3 - 7mil for 2 yrs is cheap for that. Too one sided? for which team?"

No way the Braves would even consider this deal. They're shopping Renteria to find at least a solid #3 starter, not a 5 who shows flashes (they already have enough crappy pitchers who pitch decent once in a while.) They've already had Marquis, and he didn't pan out. The addition of Murton would be nice, but not at the expense of Edgar. I don't really see any trade with Chicago that would upgrade the rotation, Marshall and Hill are both about the equivalent of Chuck James.

AJ Burnett would be nice, but I don't see the Blue Jays going for that one. I think the most likely scenario would be with the Tigers in a deal involving Robertson. Carlos Guillen has already stated he would move to 1st to accomodate Renteria, and the Tigers have plenty of young pitchers with potential in Jurrjens, Miller, etc. The only knock on this deal is that the Tigers are missing the postseason this year because of their pitching, and I'm not sure if Dombrowski is willing to trade away one of his solid starters for another bat.

The trade with Pittsburgh for Ian Snell is definitely one Schuerholz should look into, as long as the Pirates are willing to trade Snell. Losing Escobar isn't a big deal, as they would still have Edgar, and Lillibridge/Prado to take care of SS once he's gone. Boyer and Reyes are both young pitchers with some potential, but I think Snell will end up being better than both of them. The Braves don't have the time with an aging Chipper Jones to sit around and wait for Reyes and Boyer to emerge. Snell still hasn't met his potential but he would still definitely be an upgrade from James in the #3 spot.

2008 Braves?
1. Tim Hudson
2. John Smoltz
3. Ian Snell
4. Chuck James
5. Jeff Bennett/Buddy Carlyle (I'm guessing Hampton's arm will actually come off at the shoulder during spring training.)

1. Kelly Johnson - 2B
2. Edgar Renteria - SS
3. Chipper Jones - 3B
4. Mark Teixeira - 1B
5. Brian McCann - C
6. Jeff Francouer - RF
7. Matt Diaz - LF
8. Willie Harris - CF

I'm really hoping an adequate replacement for Andruw comes via free agency, Willie has already shown us he can't play everyday. Maybe add in a Mike Cameron or (crossing my fingers) Torii Hunter or even crazy ass Milton Bradley, and that's a very formidable lineup.

"Problem comes in the fact that Escobar is under control for a longer period of time for a lot less money while still having the possibility of producing similar production to ERent."

Definitely a fair point, but Schuerholz has never seemed to govern his season based on payroll. I wouldn't be surprised if he used 2008 as a payroll frontloaded go-for-it season and 2009 as the recovery season as opposed to using even payrolls over the two. God knows he's earned the right to make those calls in Atlanta with his track record.

"You are right about Yunel Escobar's BABIP being extremely high *notJoeMorgan*. But, I would argue his normal BABIP is easily in the .320-.330 range because his % of line drives hit is through the roof (much higher than a normal hitter who's BABIP is at an average of .280 or so)."

If I'm not mistaken, LD% doesn't have a high year to year correlation for most hitters (and is still somewhat inconsistent park to park). If anything, I'd read that as "his average and BABIP are high because of his LD% but those shouldn't hold up next year". Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd bet on Yunel being well under .330 next season.

Bravesfanuc,
Nice try, but that's about as dumb as it can get. Rasmus is untouchable. Especially for that garbage

Dumb as it gets? Wow Ozzie, you really need to do some research! Colby has been great this year, but that BA isn't likely to translate into the MLB, so that means an even lower BA. Granted, he was injured (or sick) but if you can't hit above 280 in the minors, then I doubt you are going to become a 280 hitter in the majors.

So basically, for a young pitcher with a fair amount of upside, and a batting title contender with good D at SS, we can't net a prospect? And to call it ludicrous? Wow - just wow.

Oh, and calling E-Rent garbage just shows your ignorance.

So after doing some research on garza, yes I was wrong, the braves probably would do escobar for garza, my apologies sorry. However, as good as garza is, no way the twins trade him, the same way the giants are not going to give up cain or lincecum for renteria.

As far as rasmus goes, that makes absolutely no sense at all. The production up grade from eckstein to renteria is not worth rasmus, who will eventually be a an all-star calibur player. And he is in a need area for the cards, ozzie is right, ramus will not be given up just to get renteria and jo-jo in return, which is probably as good a package as we could offer. Let's keep in mind that if we deal renteria, im about 98% certain it is for pitching help.

Well, ill take garland out of the equation, and stick with vazquez, who himself is more valuable than renteria. I guess any way you go, you cannot find a perfect match, I just think a pitcher with a better track record could be had.

Umm, how about probably not. The only way that the marlins are trading willis is if they get young prospects in return, and I am sure the braves want a starter who has put up better numbers recently. Nice Try, but the team's opinons for they want in exchange for each player does not match up.

*NotJoeMorgan* I do not think that Escobar is going to hit .330 for the Braves next year either. But, I do see him as someone who could put up a .310/.370/.430 line on a consistent basis while playing better than average defense. I really believe the reports I read that say Braves management saw Escobar as the "untouchable" prospect, not Saltalamacchia...

JZa, love the creativity man, in all seriousness that is actually not a far fetched idea, only obstacle that i see is the fact that the cards do not want to trade away the offensive potential of duncan for a rental of renteria, and the cards probably view trading duncan away the same way we view a renteria trade, they would use duncan in a trade to get some decent pitching in return, and ozzie is right, i do not know if we would have to take on some money in a renteria trade since boston is already paying a good chunk of his salary, but the cards and braves just do not seem to matchup

Ozzie, im with ya on livan, i would love to have him as an option at the back end of the rotation.

For the Cards I think it's gonna be Livan or a homecoming for Matty Morris. They both bring the ability to eat up some innings and keep you in ballgames consistently. Which is something that Kip Wells never did figure out how to do. The Key for next season is just to be healthier. If Mulder is a .500 pitcher next season that's a good start. Of course you want to see AP putting up AP numbers. Rolen being able to drive the ball would be a plus as well. I don't see things being that bad in STL in 08.

BTW, in scanning over the responses here, i think perhaps not enough attention is being paid to the arket. Even mediocre pitching is being highly valued right now, whereas it's a relatively short list of teams who are practical possibilities for a guy like Renteria (or Tejada or Wilson) so, despite Renteria's objective value, it's seriously a buyer's market for short stops, despite the super-thin Free Agent pool.

I know this thread is dead now but:
*Colby has been great this year, but that BA isn't likely to translate into the MLB, so that means an even lower BA. Granted, he was injured (or sick) but if you can't hit above 280 in the minors, then I doubt you are going to become a 280 hitter in the majors.
*
Colby Rasmus is playing AA baseball as a (just turned) 21 year old. His average took a big hit while he battled a month long sinius infection.

Exactly, so why the hell would the Devil Rays trade him? You dont trade away young pitching with huge upside that just posted a near 6/1 K/BB and is locked up cheap, especially when your the D Rays and you are starving for pitching. They are looking to add arms, not give them away.

Quote:

Sorry, i like how you put all the pieces together, but i think the jays win that deal out right, and that neither the braves nor White Sox get the value for what they are giving up.
~unquote

I actually completely agree with you. I think the Jays make out like bandits there. but the Braves are getting exactly what they wanted (if the report is true) and the White Sox get exactly what they want (a lefty as good as Downs is pure gold right now and Frasor is underrated - a victim of a handful of horrible outings) - if the reports are true.

So while I agree the Jays are the big winners, I am just giving them what they supposedly want.

"Maybe something between Toronto and Atlanta can be worked out. AJ Burnett maybe?"

This, and subsequent discussion of Burnett, as well as this:

"I agree with the people saying it should be Escobar and not Renteria that gets moved."

And similar remarks both ignore one of the central premises of this discussion:

The fact that the Braves are probably going to have to shed payroll. Trading Renteria for a pitcher like Burnett (or Oswalt or whomever) who makes similar money doesn't solve the problem. Nor does trading the inexpensive kid and keeping the high priced veteran.