Heyman On Santana

Are you on crack???
So the Twins dont have a choice? They have this player they dont need to trade and have 29 teams they can trade him to, but they really only have the ability to trade him to the Yankees for 2 players they dont need because you tell us its the case? And these two players will be a horrible CFer and a good pitching prospect they can just draft a comparable to at the end of the year?

See, thats the thing ~ cant they just sign any crappy minor-league FA CF and get a Kennedy out of the Draft next year? TYour deal is their only option though, really? And you said they will love it because they are cheap, right? Huh? So the theory is "take crap for the best pitcher ever because its cheap" now?

The leverage they have is they don’t need to trade him. They also have the leverage of having 29 teams that would love to have him for even 1 year ~ and they will easily be able to offer more than Cabrera + Kennedy for that one year! I would love for my Indians to trade a guy like Lofgren + maybe Choo for 1 year of Johan ~ I then try to work out a deal and if not I get the DP to replace Lofgren at the end of the year. See, when its 1 SP and 1 easily replace piece of crap then you don’t worry about only getting a draft pick when he walks ~ 1 draft pick is worth as much as Kennedy (I mean he was only drafted last year right?) and Cabrera’s are a dime a dozen…

IF IM THE TWINS I start looking at those High A and Low A Prospects. With MLBPA aleady making it known that they want Johan to be the pitching equivalent of AROD and Johan unwilling to even counteroffer a 20MM/yr extension, The Twins are in a Loose-Loose Situation. They can Keep Santana and have him leave via Free Agency and get a low first round and suplemental pick; Or trade Santana in a PR Nightmare and end up with some highly touted pitching prospects from one of the three teams that can actually afford the money it takes to make this Deal more than just a RENT-An-ACE situation.
Both will leave the Twins in the same situtation in 2009...Good young pitching (Which the twins already have...) and no Hitting outside of Manly Joe Maur. Sorry Twins Fans even Justin Morneu will be too expensve one day.
The best deal I think they can make is one they've done plenty times before... Trade Johan for maybee one MLB ready Bat and a virtual boat load of low level talent (4 or 5 players) that the general scouting community has greatly undervalued. The Twins have fleeced a great many teams with this tactic... Just ask the Giants if they'd do the AJ Perzienski Deal all over again. This gives the Twins a better chance of fielding a Championship Quality team by the time their new home opens up for business. A word of caution... Although I love Phil Hughes for his online interaction with fans... Young Pitchers that come in Troika's rarely pan out. Just ask a Met Fan.

nrmax,

Ah, the ole ad hominem, nice. Should be you're delusional though. Now for your argument. Milledge, okay, in two seasons he has done this:

AB Avg HR RBI OBP SLG
350 .257 11 51 .326 .414

in 2007 Milledge did this

AB Avg HR RBI OBP SLG
184 .272 7 29 .341 .446

and Cabrera's 2007 figures

AB Avg HR RBI OBP SLG
545 .273 8 73 .327 .391

Wow, comparing the number I think you're the delusional one. They are the same age and are putting up very similar numbers. Cabrera's figures became much better once he became an everyday player but I don't have those stats readily available. So before you go run off at the mouth why don't you do some research.

Dark,

You really don't get it do you. Santana will veto any deal if the receiving team will not extend him right then. Only a handful of teams can afford to extend Santana for 6/150. So yes, the Twins don't have many options. I am not saying they have to accept that offer. By the way, I love your argument that Kennedy and Cabrera both suck, are you insane? Cabrera is no stud but please review the figures before you go running your mouth about how much better Millege is than Cabrera. They both have the same average hitting numbers and are both the same age. As for Kennedy, all he has done is dominate the minor leagues and has not gotten shelled at the major league level. He did throw 19 innings with 15K's and a 1.89 ERA and WHIP of 1.16. Not too shabby debut if you ask me, but you're right, he is trash.

Yes, 3 nice starts with a walk every 2 innings against the september callup lineups of TB, KC, and Texas is definitely something to bust a nut over.

nrmax,

Firstly, quit putting words in my mouth, I never said Melky was better than Millege. I simply put up their stats and you made that conclusion yourself. As far as your Kennedy comment goes, your logic is really flawed. You argue one point then when it is blown to pieces you start looking for other ways to tear down Kennedy. Give me a break. If you don't like the Yankees that's fine but don't say a player sucks just because he plays for them.

RedSoxHater,

Santana 13.25M
Nathan 6M
Morneau 7ish (Arb so…)
Mauer 6.25M
Cuddyer 6ish (Arb so…)
Punto 2.4M
Reyes 1M
Redmond 1M
Crain 1M
…Then a bunch of minimum wage guys.

~ that’s only 43.9 and they spent upwards of 70M in 2007...

Jzzskins,
It isnt a one year rental when there is a 48-72 hour window to sign him. You dont think there will be one?

And they wont ask for pitching prospects since they dont need pitching prospects ~ how hard is that for people to understand?

"nrmax,

Firstly, quit putting words in my mouth, I never said Melky was better than Millege"

No, but you did infer any team would be foolish to take Milledge and Pelfrey over Cabrera and Kennedy, which is laughable.

"As far as your Kennedy comment goes, your logic is really flawed."

Which comment would that be? It would be nice if you would post the "flawed comment" when you reference it.

"…And people wonder why everyone cant stand talking to Yankee Homers… You would seriously feel bad for these people if they weren’t so adamant in their irrational thinking…"

I know, its like they are their own breed of human, they dont listen to sense and they get mad when you tell them that a guy who has never even came close to cracking an .800 ops is not a good centerpiece for the best pitcher in baseball. It is so frustrating. Too most people it is so simple but to these guys it just wont get through.

"nrmax,

You're right, simply based on those figures I would take Cabrera over Milledge, to be honest. Milledge has a little more pop, I never claimed Cabrera will be a 20HR guy, but based on the minor league numbers and the major league numbers, Cabrera appears to have the better stats, especially for 2006, the most recent year before the majors. "

Do you actually believe the nonsense you are posting? Melky NEVER HAD AN 800 OPS IN THE MINORS. NEVER. Milledge had his worst season in the minors in 06 and still posted a .830 OPS at a horrible hitters park in a full season of at bats, not in a 100 at bat stretch like MElky had in 2006. I cant believe that there are human beings that are this ignorant. Somebody should just put you out of your misery. Seriously.

"nrmax,

"Yes, 3 nice starts with a walk every 2 innings against the september callup lineups of TB, KC, and Texas is definitely something to bust a nut over."

That Kennedy comment. How soon you forget."

How is that a flawed arguement? What is remotely flawed about saying you shouldnt get hyped up over a pitcher that pitches 3 nice games against a lineup full of september callups against 3 crappy teams to behin with? Where is the flaw? You said it was flawed, then you posted the comment, but what part of it is flawed? I would have an easier time teaching algebra to a god dam monkey. Its not like I am trying convince you of something hard to believe. Milledge was a top 10 prospect and a dynamic hitter his whole life. Melky is not in his class.

Dark,

You must not read any papers, listen to any sports radio or even read the articles on this site. Santana will not allow a trade to take place without an extension. Again with the ad hominem agruments. You are nrmax are ridiculous. By the way, I am not a Yankee fan, I just made up that name for people like you to make such dumb comments.

nrmax,

Please tell me you are not this stupid, and I quote "Do you actually believe the nonsense you are posting? Melky NEVER HAD AN 800 OPS IN THE MINORS. NEVER."

Based on the numbers you just posted, which I confirmed, Cabrera had an OPS of .996 in 2006. Far from "NEVER HAD AN 800 OPS IN THE MINORS. NEVER." Now, who should be put out of their misery?

nrmax,

Based on your comments about Cabrera never having an OPS over 800, my question is this. Do you even know what algebra is? You need to grasp the reality of simply integers before you go on to something like algebra.

"Based on the numbers you just posted, which I confirmed, Cabrera had an OPS of .996 in 2006. Far from "NEVER HAD AN 800 OPS IN THE MINORS. NEVER." Now, who should be put out of their misery?"

All i have to say to that comment is that 100 AT BATS YOU DUMBASSSSSS

Who cares really RedSoxHater3, these idiots will argue a brown horse is white, a Red Sock is white, and the Yankees don't really play in the Bronx just for the sake of an argument. No sense talking about it anymore until the trade actually happens.

AP:

The Twins just traded Morneau, Nathan and Santana for Milledge.

"Who cares really RedSoxHater3, these idiots will argue a brown horse is white, a Red Sock is white, and the Yankees don't really play in the Bronx just for the sake of an argument. No sense talking about it anymore until the trade actually happens."

Calling a red sock white isnt as stupid as calling Melky a better baseball player then Milledge. Also, is your little Twins trade post supposed to be a shot at me or something? If saying Lastings Milledge is better then Melky Cabrera is the same thing as saying Milledge can net Santana, Morneau, and Nathan in a trade, then I am guilty as charged.

nrmax,

Are you serious. I put up Cabrera's MLB numbers compared to Milledge's. Very similar with Milledge edging him out in power. You came back with look at Milledge's minor league numbers. Well you want me to look at Milledge's minor league numbers while you totally dismiss Kennedy's MLB numbers and disregard his minor league dominance at every level. Milledge has more power than Cabrera but their stats right now say they are similar players. I am not saying that Milledge is not better long-term, frankly I have heard that Cabrera could turn into another Bernie Williams. 2008 will be the telling year for Cabrera, when he gets a full year of everyday play under his belt.

I never disregarded anything about Kennedy. I dismissed his first 3 starts because it was like 19 innings against 3 crappy teams and they mean nothing. All I said in regard to KEnnedy is that the twins have no need for him. He is not better then any of the twins top pitchers. Milledges and Melky Cabreras stats could not state any more powerfully that they are not even remotely similar. Melky cant hold his jock. If Cabrera turns into BErnie Williams, you better thanks every baseball god you can find.

Basically, this is where I stand: Melky has absolutely nothing whatsoever on Milledge. The twins have no need for KEnnedy.

Comparing Millidge to Melky is impossible...even if you make the argument that the have SIMILAR stats...Millidge has not played a full Major League season...

Millidge has a better upside...That doesnt change how I feel about Melky...He is league average offensively...and i would say better than league average defensively...I am not saying he is stellar...He takes some bad routes...But he has a great arm...

If Milledge fails as a ML hitter his numbers will probably be in the .270/330/.430 range ~ which would still be better than Melky.

BoSox ~ Cabrera hasnt provided a LgAvg year at the plate yet. His OPS have been .751 (ParkAdjusted LgAvg was .781) and .718 (ParkAdjusted LgAvg was .762). For his career he is -.40 OPS from LgAvg

Oh and whoever it was asking about the Twins payroll…

I looked it up from USA Today and it looks these players are gone for 2008:
Luis Castillo 5.75M
Jeff Cirillo 1.5M
Lew Ford 1M
Torii Hunter 12M
Sidney Ponson 1M
Nick Punto 1.8M
Juan Rincon 2M
Carlos Silva 4.33M
Rondell White 2.5M

…adds up to 31.88 Million saved from last year.

"The Red Sox [team stats] are actively engaged in trade talks with the Minnesota Twins about Johan Santana and plan to aggressively pursue the two-time Cy Young Award winner, a baseball source said yesterday."

"One team, the Texas Rangers, reportedly was told by the Red Sox that they wanted three prospects in exchange for Crisp"

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/red_sox/view.bg?articleid=1047493

MINOR LEAGUE CAREER
Milledge (1173 ABs) - .305/.385/.479/.864
Cabrera (1432 ABs) - .294/.347/.422/.769

MAJOR LEAGUE CAREER
Milledge (350 ABs) - .257/.326/.414/.740
Cabrera (1024 ABs) - .275/.340/.388/.728

Milledge's minor league OPS stomps Melky's by almost 100 points. Better OBP, better power.

While Milledge's major league numbers improved this year (.690 OPS in 2006 to a .787 OPS in 2007), Melky's OPS fell from a .751 OPS to a .718 OPS.

If you can look at that and honestly think the Melky is a better player than Milledge... seek medical help immediately.

I'm going to be totally objective here when i say this...Melky isn't better than Milledge. period end of discussion and i hate the mets, but Milledge is the better player. Futhermore, As much as I would love to see santana wearing the pinstripes next yr. there is absolutely no way the yanks get him by trading kennedy and cabrera. If they do it's probably one of the biggest steals in baseball history Up there with the Sux robbing the M's of Jason Varitek for two bums. One avg. player/slightly above avg. player for a superstar lol can't see it happening have to trade talent to receive talent.

Santana is not God. He may be worth four or five MORE wins than any of the young guns plugged into that slot THIS YEAR; but he is not worth a good young outfielder AND very promising (again "young") pitching. Let his go!