Yanks Dragging Feet With Posada, Discussing Crede

Mark Feinsand has really been on top of the Yankee rumors in this young offseason.  Bill Madden helps him on this one.  The Yankees still haven't made an offer to Jorge Posada, and baseball insiders can't figure out why.  The Yanks are said to be prepared to offer 3/40, which most perceive as only a starting point in the negotiations.

The Mets hope to lure Posada away, but it could take four or even a ridiculous five years.  Like I've said...4/56.  The Yankees will pay up.  But if the Mets do get the Posada prize, the Yankees at least get the Mets' #22 overall pick in '08 as consolation.  In past years that could've represented Joba Chamberlain, Jacoby Ellsbury, Matt Garza, Colby Rasmus, Travis Buck, Clay Buchholz, Phil Hughes, or Huston Street.

Regarding their third base vacancy, the Yanks have already touched base with Kenny Williams about Joe Crede.  Given the uncertainty, Crede's pending free agency after '08, and his Boras association, his trade value can't be very high right now.  My best guess remains some kind of Johnny Damon swap where the Yanks eat money.  A year of Crede doesn't seem worth four or five of any decent youngster.

Also, the deadline on Bobby Abreu's $16MM option is tomorrow.  The Yanks will probably exercise it.

Comments

[hallofamer2000]

With A-Rod gone, I don't see Damon leaving (although I'd rather see Matsui be traded). They might have Matsui at DH, Damon in LF, and Giambi at 1st with Duncan in case of injury for all 3.

[henry14theking]

Hmm... what's the compensation for a Type A FA?

Is it just the first round draft pick (as long as its not protected)? Or does the team get a sandwich pick as additional compensation too?

Also, is there an information on the 2008 draft prospects?

If Posada does leave for the Mets and ARod signs in Anaheim, the Yanks will have the 22, 27, 28 picks.

What happens if Mets sign both ARod and Posada (unlikely)?

The Dodgers better not get ARod... that screws the Yanks out of a 1st round pick.

And lastly... can you get a better comments system Tim? Just a suggestion. Half the time, this thing won't even remember that I'm logged in.

[astralpanda]

Crede, if he puts together a decent(2006-esque) season is one of the few players I think Kenny would swallow his pride and negotiate with, even with Boras as his agent.

That said, I hope they don't trade him, especially for a guy like Damon who's quickly approaching the tail end of his productive years. If Kenny's serious about winning next year, Crede stays put. We've already had a rebuilding year, we're too rich a team to have two in a row.

[Andrew Cabiness]

No way Kenny Williams trades Crede for Damon, even if the Yankees pay half of Damon's salary.

He has shown in the past that he won't trade players for crap just to trade players (Buehrle, Dye). He'll start the 2008 season with Crede at 3B before he makes this deal.

If the Yankees want Crede, they'll have to give up Melky, Cano, or one of their young stud pitchers.

[yanksfan]

The Yankees aren't dragging their feet on Posada. Word from Peter Abraham is that the Yankees asked to meet with him and he requested the meeting to take place next week.

[plh903]

Compensation is the teams's first non-protected pick, plus a sandwich pick.

Ties are broken by the actual numerical ranks of the players.

[Joe159]

"If the Yankees want Crede, they'll have to give up Melky, Cano, or one of their young stud pitchers."

Yeah, because Cano or Hughes for Crede makes tons of sense.

Damon for Crede isn't THAT horribly lopsided, especially with the Yankees picking up most of Damon's salary. Damon had a bad season in 2007, but if he puts up numbers like he did in '06, it'll be a steal for Chicago.

Not that I like Crede for New York anyway.

[nrmax88]

"If the Yankees want Crede, they'll have to give up Melky, Cano, or one of their young stud pitchers."

lol. Why? He has a lifetime .259/.305/.446 career line. 3B with a career OPS of .750 dont usually net stud pitchers in deals. Or young superstar calibur 2B either. Johnny Damon has one below average year and suddenly he isnt worth Joe Crede? This is a joke. If I was the Yankees I would hold onto Damon. He is a good leadoff hitter, who cares if his production is below average for a LF,it wont be below average for a leadoff guy.

[GoBoSox420]

Damon for crede is an absurd proposition

Flat out

The ONLY people in favor of that deal would be those associated with the yankees

[bobo]

Well, let's see. Damon's more valuable than Crede offensively, plays a position that that the Sox need help at, removes a logjam at 3B, isn't a FA in 2009, and isn't coming off a serious injury.

With a lot of money included, you're right - it's pretty absurd because the Yankees would be getting hosed.

[palehose35]

you can spout off his career statline all you want, but it's misleading. he won the silver slugger for 3B his last full season (even if ARod should have won), and he provides gold glove caliber defense. He's also entering his prime, will have a healthy back for the first time in years, and has a legit reputation as a clutch producer.

[trober81]

i dont think i've read one string of comments without that one guy up there spouting off OBP stats. there is more to baseball players than there OBP.

[nrmax88]

Oh. Good lord. The Silver fucking Slugger. Okay, youre absolutely right. Hughes, Joba, Cano for Crede? I dont know though, they might need more for the silver slugger.

[palehose35]

i never said he's worth hughes, joba, cano. i just said his career statline is misleading. he's progressed offensively beyond what his career stats would indicate. relax...

[bobo]

Don't forget, a "reputation as a clutch producer" - will you guys take Joba, Hughes, and Cano for him?

[nrmax88]

I actually dont know what you're talking about. I dont any talk of OBP anywhere. Maybe some talk of OPS, which would make sense since it is the most important stat used to rate a hitter (still not without its flaws), that doesnt take into account team stats like RBI's, R's, etc. I would rather have Damon then Crede. If you want to bring up the clutch arguement palehose, Damon is pretty clutch. A big time playoff performer.

[palehose35]

i also called to notice his defense, which is elite, and his other attractive qualities that you ignored.

[palehose35]

is it impossible to have a decent debate without people taking things personally and intentionally twisting the points you were trying to make? grow up.

[nrmax88]

Joba, Hughes, and Cano? Are you serious? You will have to atleast add in Kennedy and Melky Cabrera and Betances also, come on bobo get with the program this is a SILVER SLUGGER we are discussing here. And palehose already told us his back wont act up this year, so now that that's cleared up......

[Not Joe Morgan]

So you're mocking statlines while touting Silver Sluggers and Gold Gloves? I'd like to be your rival GM.

2007 Damon: .270/.351/.396
2006 Crede: .283/.323/.506

If there's money involved, what makes this a laughable trade for Chicago? Are you just conditioned to hear "Damon" and respond with "SUX! LOL!"? If Chicago wants to jumpstart the team's abysmal OBP (.318), Damon replacing Podsednik in LF is a nice place to start.

[nrmax88]

I am not taking anything personally. I dont like the Whitesox or the Yankees. It is absolutely absurd to expect a stud pitcher for a guy that has a career ops of .750 and has chronic back problems, and has played his whole career in a park that is as hitter friendly as they come.

[palehose35]

look back at my posts and tell me where i said the sox should get a stud pitcher for him? i didn't even compare him to damon for christ's sake. all i did was argue he's more valuable than his statline would indicate. the silver slugger thing was just meant to be an indication that his offense has progressed with time to levels beyond his earlier years in his career. i know sliver slugger awards aren't the most important thing in the world, but they at the very least indicate the guy is decent with the bat. and not joe morgan, i didn't mock stats. i just said there's more to crede's value than his career statline, especially considering how far he's progressed.

[palehose35]

and for the record, i actually wouldn't mind a damon/crede trade if the yankees threw some money in. i wouldn't want damon in CF, but LF would be a good fit.

[Joe159]

Or, the Silver Slugger means he had one good year. The funny thing is that that's exactly what his numbers tell you, too.

You didn't say anything about a stud pitcher, but someone did, and that's what people are responding to.

[plh903]

"is it impossible to have a decent debate without people taking things personally and intentionally twisting the points you were trying to make? grow up."

You don't read these threads much, do you? Red herrings and strawmen abound.

A year of cheap Crede for a ridiculously overpaid corner outfielder? Yes please if I'm the Yankees. I don't even need to look at their stats.

[ArodSucksAtLife]

"The ONLY people in favor of that deal would be those associated with the yankees"

I'm in favor of that deal. It means I can stop hating Damon a little, and the Yankees get a crap 3b.

[palehose35]

yeah, it means he had one good year. but the fact it was his last year (2007 was a writeoff for him) is important. if he won it in 2004, and his .239 in 2006, it wouldn't be worth mentioning. it was simply a way of singling out his progression.

[ArodSucksAtLife]

"I don't even need to look at their stats."

Ozzie?? Is that you?

[Aduncaroo]

But are you willing to throw in like 5 mil...cause I think thats what it would take...

[KB]

Jack Wilson won a Silver Slugger in 04. And we couldn't trade him for a decent set of batting gloves.

[Tim Dierkes]

Good litmus test for a random trade proposal is whether both sides' fans think it's unfair to them. If so, it's fair.

That said, Damon for Crede was pure speculation by me. Tell me who's fair otherwise from the Yanks, I'm listening.

[rype123]

The White Sox are in a tough position with Crede. They can trade him and replace him with Fields, but they will get a lot less than he is possibly worth, with him missing most of last season with chronic back problems, and being a free agent after this year. If they keep him, and he performs well, they could trade him at the deadline and possible get more than they would now, or if he isn't better, they get nothing. If I were the Sox, I'd see if he would take a 1 year extension, that way if he does well, they can get better value for him, or they have more time to negotiate with him if they decide to keep him.

[gogopalehose]

I agree with rype. I say the Sox bite the bullet and stunt Fields' growth despite Crede blatantly scewing over the White Sox. Unless you can get market value now. If Crede is good at all for the Yankees they can afford to re-sign him, so it doesn't matter if it is a one year deal. I like my Brett Gardner and a prospect proposal, but I still think Melky Cabrera makes loads more sense than Damon for the White Sox.

[Playwright]

Both players have big questions surrounding them at the moment, and neither is an ideal pick up. Damon is a liability in the field at this point; his throwing atrocious, and his speed somewhat diminished. His OBP is still solid, though getting more liquid. I don't think he's really worth the White Sox pursuing, money or no money.

Crede, if healthy, is worth much more to the Yankees. But, of course, health is an issue. That's part of the problem in trading him. The White Sox would want what a healthy Crede is worth, while a trading partner would be reluctant to give that much, because of health concerns. I'd say Crede is worth more than Damon but less than Cabrera. Not sure the Yankees have that. Duncan's too iffy, both as a prospect and as an outfielder, and the White Sox have enough 1B-DH types.

Not sure there's an obvious fit here, but, of course, who knows the real intentions, needs, and perspectives of the Gm's?

[gogopalehose]

I say Crede goes to the Mets and moves Wright to 2B ;)

[Andrew Cabiness]

I never mentioned the word "FAIR" in my post.

All I said was if the Yankees want Crede, what it would take to get him.

If KW can't get what he perceives to be to his advantage, then he won't make the deal.

If Damon is "FAIR" then it will take more than that.

[TheSchmaranz]

Those who are claiming the White Sox should be getting Cano, Melky or young pitching for Crede have gotta be kidding themselves. The guy just had back surgery, Kenny Williams has no leverage to get a anything significant for him. Best way to go would be to wait until spring training so other teams can see if his back has made any progress. Otherwise, Kenny ain't getting much of anything for Joe.

[gogopalehose]

Good news about Crede is that he's clear for baseball activity and his rehab is going great. Bad news is he might be rusty coming off a lost season.

Thing about the White Sox 2007, it couldn't have possibly gone worse. Not only did they have their worst season in two decades, but the bullpen blew it completely, Crede lost a year in arbitration and anulled all the value he built up in 06 while creating a log jam, Uribe has little to no value because of the OBP that's probably lower than his weight, they couldn't get any prospects for their tradeable chip in Dye and everyone is just a year older after having a miserable season. They might have to go to mini rebuild mode, but not before re-establishing their key players.

[WillieTheIgnitor]

"2007 Damon: .270/.351/.396
2006 Crede: .283/.323/.506"

If your using Crede's 06, its fair to use Damon's, too, when he hit .285/.359/.482

[DodgersLBC]

Zing!...

[gogowhitesox]

"No way Kenny Williams trades Crede for Damon, even if the Yankees pay half of Damon's salary.

He has shown in the past that he won't trade players for crap just to trade players (Buehrle, Dye). He'll start the 2008 season with Crede at 3B before he makes this deal.

If the Yankees want Crede, they'll have to give up Melky, Cano, or one of their young stud pitchers."

HAHAHAHA!! Kenny Williams has done absolutley nothing to show "he wont trade players for crap" In the last two years he has acquired Jim Thome (way past prime, decline of career), Andrew Sisco (AAA), Nick Masset (AAA), and David Aardsma (AAA). He's traded Aaron Rowand (All-Star), Chris Young (ROY candidate and should have been Rowand's replacement), and he allowed the most prolofic player in White Sox history to walk away for absolutley nothing.
This trade parrells the Rowand/Thome trade to the T. Rowand was an outstanding defender who can do all the little things the Sox are missing while Thome hits HRs and thats it. In this deal, Crede is entering his prime and is already established as a top 5 3B in the MLB while Damon is on the downside of his career and his production will continue to decrease. Make this trade, and enjoy 4th place and barely a million in attendance this year K Dub.

[buehrlebro]

Oh Jesus no

[TheSchmaranz]

The uncertain status of Crede's back leaves him with minimal trade value. What some folks don't understand is when you have pretty major back surgery, who knows what pop in your bat or what range you may have lost from the injury. Sure he's been cleared to resume baseball activity, that doesn't mean he'll be able to contribute like he did in '05 and '06.

[gogopalehose]

You're also missing the fact that it could make him much better too. I mean, look how back injuries have hampered great hitters like Mike Sweeney and Jim Thome. He could have even better range and he could have more batspeed, even more confidence if he is relieved of all this pain.

I'm just saying, it works both ways. But he WILL have to prove himself and Williams has to be patient with Crede despite screwing his team.

[SierraM]

Damon's been playing injured for far too long and it's finally catching up to him.

Buyer beware. Damon's health is way past warranty.

[ArodSucksAtLife]

"In this deal, Crede is entering his prime and is already established as a top 5 3B in the MLB while Damon is on the downside of his career and his production will continue to decrease."

Julio Lugo is the next homerun champion. My dong is 34 inches. You think things through and make rational interesting posts.

[andagh]

Johnny Damon:
Pre-Allstar break: .683 OPS
Post-Allstar break: .814 OPS

Injuries in the first half hurt his season. Once he was given some regular rest and moved from centre field, he was close to his old self. Remember, in 2006 he hit 25 hrs. If someone asked me, who will have a better season next year, Damon or Crede, I'd say Damon every time.

As a Blue Jays fan, I would do Glaus for Damon straight up no questions asked. Damon gets a lot of stick because he can't throw, but in reality, he's still a pretty good player.

[scribbletone]

I don't necessarily think this deal is that lopsided if New York pays for some of Damon's salary, but if I were the White Sox i wouldnt trade Crede for Damon. If I traded him to the Yankees, i would go after either Ian Kennedy OR Melky Cabrera. You can always use good, young arms, and Cabrera is an above average fielder and fills a need in center. If you couldn't get one of those two, i would look in a different direction then settle for Damon. Maybe to Boston if they can't resign Lowell. A good pitching prospect like Justin Masterson or Michael Bowden would work. I know this is an old one but maybe to the Angels for Chone Figgins. Kenny Williams seems to get along with Gillick too, so maybe to the Phillies. Crede for Michael Bourn would probably work. Any of those deals would improve the Sox more long term than getting the expensive, aging Damon. I'm sure Williams would rather come out with Kennedy, Cabrera, Masterson, Bowden, Figgins or Bourn. I don't see any reason why making this team older would improve them. Or maybe go a little wild and package him with a pitcher (Garland? Contreras?) and go after a big name or some big name prospects.

[hallofamer2000]

"If I traded him to the Yankees, i would go after either Ian Kennedy OR Melky Cabrera."

I think you're mistaking Crede for a good player.

Yankees should do one of the following:
(1) Get Hudson, Cano to 3rd
(2) Make a big push for Headley (a deal centered around Igawa, along w/ others).
(3) Get Crede only if he can be had for nothing.

[gogowhitesox]

Crede has far more upside than a 34yr old pus arm outfielder.
If they're serious about trading Joe Crede it should be to LA for Scot Shields. Maybe package Crede and Garland for Shields and Reggie Willits.

[Bonatom]

This is going to be the Off season, that the Mets Ruin(as a Mets Fan) The Mets will drive up the price for AROD and Posada, and countless othe FA, and Sign none of them

[SierraM]

Igawa for Chase Headley? Yea right!

I'm afraid that when Igawa is traded, "salary dump" will be right next to his name.

Kevin Towers might take him of your hands if you pawn him off for AAAA player.

I personally think he's doing you a favor by doing so.

[plh903]

The Yanks owe $26M to Damon. As one of the biggest stat nerds around here, I can tell you that I don't need to look up those of any pre-free agency player for Damon. Done deal. For anyone.

It helps that Crede plays good D, a position that the Yanks need, and can hit a little. Sure. But I'd trade Damon for Aaron Miles.

[ArodSucksAtLife]

Seriously it takes 4 freaking seconds to look things up.

Career OPS+ of 92.

Joe Crede can't hit a little.

Damn it.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/credejo01.shtml

[nrmax88]

"Crede is entering his prime and is already established as a top 5 3B in the MLB "

I am not even sure whether this is necesarry, because people have probably already ripped that post apart, but when I read it I just scrolled to the bottom to react.

Let me just start by saying.
David Wright
Miguel Cabrera
Ryan Zimmerman
Chipper Jones.

Maybe you meant he would be a top 5 3B in the NL east? Albeit he would be number 5, but top 5 nonetheless.

To continue.....

Ryan Braun
Aramis Ramirez
Scott Rolen
Edwin Encarnacion
Garret Atkins
Alex Rodrigeuz
Mike Lowell
Troy Glaus
Alex Gordon
Adrian Beltre

I think that is 14 guys I just names that are clearly better then Crede. Those are just the guys that are hands down better, not even the guys that you can make an arguement for.

Joe Crede? Top 5 3B in MLB?

Arodsucksatlife is hilarious.

[Andrew Cabiness]

"In the last two years he has acquired Jim Thome (way past prime, decline of career), Andrew Sisco (AAA), Nick Masset (AAA), and David Aardsma (AAA)."

Thome had the 31st highest VORP in MLB in 2007 and 18th in 2006. That's hardly crap.

Sisco was acquired for a seldom-used bench player, Masset came in the trade with Danks, who outperformed McCarthy last year, and Aardsma was acquired for Cotts and both were a bust this year. In all of those deals the Sox got more than they gave up.

Chris Young left in the Vazquez trade, and while he's quite good, it is going to be much easier for the White Sox to fill CF this offseason than it would have been to try to find a #2 starter of Vazquez' quality, so that trade was hardly terrible.

[gogowhitesox]

Its fairly obviously NRMax is a Cubs fan putting the 0-for A-Ram abovev Joe Crede as a 3B. And Ryan Braun who wil be an outfielder b/c he is a below average fielder. Alex Gordon?? Encarnacion?? Rolen and Glaus and Beltre?? All steroid freaks. Zimmerman's good but not better than Crede. I cant believe you didnt include Casey Blake or Brandon Inge. Hell in your world Nick Punto is better than Joe Crede at 3B.
And as far as Cabiness, the almighty whitesox.com message board "God" GET OFF THOMES DICK! The guy is worthless.

[Andrew Cabiness]

"And as far as Cabiness, the almighty whitesox.com message board "God""

Not a "God". Not omnipotent, just omniscient.

[ArodSucksAtLife]

The best year of Crede's career was less that Aramis Ramirez' career average.

Look things up.

Congratulations you've now been owned by a Red Sox fan(me), and a Mets fan(Nrmax).

Your team is awful, getting crede off of it and Damon on to it would be hugely beneficial to you. Not to the Yankees, it would benefit me cause the Yankees would be a worse team.

Crede and Podsednik off, Damon and Fields on. Better team......

Now if you can't follow this logic, please go put your time and effort into becoming a die hard curling fan because baseball is too hard for you.

[rype123]

Maybe I'm biased, but I would take a healthy Crede any day over Aramis Ramirez. Sure Ramirez has good numbers, but don't show me what his numbers are, show me when he has them. Crede was clutch throughout the 2005 run to win the World Series, Ramirez disappeared in 2003 and this year in the playoffs. Crede's defense is also way better than Ramirez.

As for the trade of Crede for Damon, it could be good for both teams, but I wouldn't say that it makes the Sox a better team, unless it was going to be Crede hurt for the year. Nobody knows what Fields will do, he could go into a "sophmore slump" this year, and he still has things to learn on D. Damon is getting old, I see him being injured more than he's healthy the rest of his career.

If the Sox want to improve, I hate to say it, it's to trade Konerko to someone like the Angels. He is their best bargaining chip, and they could probably get at least one of the middle infielders the Angels have, plus who knows what else, relief help or outfield help. Trading Crede at his lowest price isn't the way to go. They can put Fields at 1st and keep Crede at 3rd.

[rype123]

GoGowhiteSox, I'll reiterate that those trades for "crap" players weren't exactly how you are making it out to be. The trade of Rowand made sense at the time, since Kenny thought he had another CFer ready to play, and he was picking up a huge bat. He got the bat he wanted, but the CFer didn't work out. If they would have stuck with Anderson, they probably would have made the playoffs in 06 as Mackowiak cost them at least 5 games in the OF that year, but who knows.

With Aardsma and Sisco, it was basically crap for crap, and Aardsma wasn't the only one we got in the deal, supposedly Carlos Vasquez did pretty well in the minors, and what did Cotts do for the Cubs? Gload wasn't going to see any playing time with the Sox last year, so who cares? With Massett, you forget to mention Danks, so maybe 1 player turned into crap, but that wasn't who the trade was centered around. While KW did trade Young away, once again, he thought he had depth with Anderson, and he did get a pretty good pitcher in return. And it's not like Young lit the world on fire, he had power, but his average was no better than Anderson's rookie year, in which he couldn't even get onto the field 2 days in a row.

You act like they let Thomas walk away because they didn't want to sign him. He had a $12 million team option that they declined, if they resigned him, it would have been at a minimum $10 million. Would you be willing to put that much money into a guy who hadn't played 162 games total in the previous 3 years, and only 1 full season since 1999? I wouldn't, they made the right decision in letting him walk, he got a $500,000 contract for 1 year to show he could play again, there wasn't any way the Sox could have signed him for that.

I'm suprised with your "bad" trades, you didn't throw in the Gavin Floyd trade.

[ArodSucksAtLife]

"Crede was clutch throughout the 2005 run to win the World Series, Ramirez disappeared in 2003 and this year in the playoffs."

There is no such thing as clutch.

Signed, David Ortiz Fan.

[rype123]

I'd think being an Ortiz fan, you'd be big into clutch.

Ok, so Crede comes through when it counts, and doesn't pad his stats when it doesn't, like Aramis. Where did Aramis go when Lee went down in 06? Where did he go during the playoffs this past year and 03? Maybe it's the same as all the A-Rod hate, he doesn't do anything when it really counts.

[ArodSucksAtLife]

I use my frontal lobe. A guy who hits 300/400/500 over the course of his career, will in enough at bats in the playoffs or ninth inning average 300/400/500.

David Ortiz career:
.289/.384/.559

David Ortiz postseason:
.317/.418/.587 in 189 AB.

Give him 400 more post season AB's I'd bet my legs he comes down to his career average.

David Ortiz Late & Close:

.289/.386/.588 in 595 career ab.

Late and Close: are PA in the 7th or later with the batting team tied, ahead by one, or the tying run at least on deck.

[plh903]

Arod sucks, it takes 2 seconds to look this up: he's projected at a .270 EqA next year.

By any definition that is "hitting a little." At a neutral position, above league average is OK. Throw in the defense and he's a decent player.

[gogowhitesox]

Arodsucks,
You gotta get over the fact Damon abandoned your beloved Red Sox and went to the Yankees for monetary reasons. He is not that good and the Red Sox have been better since they dropped him and the Yankees have been worse since they picked him up. So why would the White Sox be better with Johnny Damon? Think rationally and respond.
And by the way how was I owned by someone who thinks Edwin Encarnacion is better than Joe Crede?

[ArodSucksAtLife]

Thats it, you are a complete moron.

My team just won the world fcking series I'm really devastated that Johnny Damon wasn't on the roster.

He even falling apart is a better baseball player than scott podsednik.

Joe Crede is NOT a good baseball player. Trading him away and letting Josh Fields take his place is good for your team.

"My best guess remains some kind of Johnny Damon swap where the Yanks eat money."

This is where this all started from.

Joe Crede is going to go to arbitration after earning 5 million dollars last year. If you can swap him and his increased salary for Johnny Damon with the Yankees eating enough dough, so that his AAV is the same? How in the name of anything even remotely holy do you not do that?

"He is not that good and the Red Sox have been better since they dropped him and the Yankees have been worse since they picked him up. So why would the White Sox be better with Johnny Damon?"

The Red Sox have won a world series since he left and the Yankees haven't so your leap of logic is that its Damon's fault? I thought all things wrong in the Bronx were A-rod's fault. I'm confused.

"And by the way how was I owned by someone who thinks Edwin Encarnacion is better than Joe Crede?"

He is better than Joe Crede.

24-.800 OPS
29-.750 0PS

[gogopalehose]

Correction. Edwin is the more productive hitter(not that Crede's last full season wasn't very good). Crede is eons and eons better defensively.

Arodsux, I know Crede isn't extremely productive offensively(besides his high slugging percentage), but to say he isn't a good baseball player is good and hurts me a little bit as a baseball fan. That's like saying Omar Vizquel or Brooks Robinson weren't good baseball players because they didn't have high OPS. I have to question your knowledge as a baseball fan for saying someone is a better baseball player because of their OPS being 50 points higher over the course of their career.

[gogopalehose]

*To say that he isn't a good baseball player hurts me a little bit as a baseball fan

[gogopalehose]

Also, to think that the Yankees, with the top payroll in baseball, are seriously consider trying to get him to replace one of the all time great players makes me realize how little you actually know. I don't even know why I listened to this dumbass.

[ArodSucksAtLife]

"Thats it, you are a complete moron."

I take this back, because I realize you are doing what you accused me of doing. You are defending a player on your team from what you consider an outsiders attack.

I don't believe in accuracy of defensive matrixes, they are far more subjective than hitting statistics. However Joe Crede's Gold Glovedness or whatever, don't make him a good player. He may very well be an average player, but that still ranks him lower than David Wright, Miguel Cabrera, Ryan Zimmerman, Chipper Jones, Ryan Braun, Aramis Ramirez, Scott Rolen, Alex Rodrigeuz,
Mike Lowell, Troy Glaus and Adrian Beltre without question.

I still stand by the fact that trading him for Johnny Damon straight up improves the White Sox for next year without the shadow of a doubt, and I think any intelligent baseball fan who isn't a die hard White Sox nobody else can compare fan can acknowledge that and would make that trade, especially considering the salaries involved.

[ArodSucksAtLife]

"Also, to think that the Yankees, with the top payroll in baseball, are seriously consider trying to get him to replace one of the all time great players makes me realize how little you actually know."

I don't think the Yankees would make this trade, I infact hope they do as previously mentioned. It would weaken the Yankees, unless it was a pure salary dump. I said before this was an idea brought up by Tim, and Cashman would be a fool to make it. It would help my team the Red Sox, if this actually happened.

See you should know full well that this is good for the WhiteSox, because I want bad things to happen to the Yankees, and would only support a W.Sox/Yankees trade if it was in your favor.

[Andrew Cabiness]

I've seen about 5 posts with Damon & Crede's career numbers, but look at their last full seasons:

2007 Damon: 757 OPS
2006 Crede: 829 OPS

Add to that Crede's premium defense and it's NOT a foregone conclusion that a swap will make the White Sox better. Both are injury risks, so anything can happen, but this is not the clear win for the Sox everybody is making it out to be.

Also, Damon really can't handle CF anymore, so the Sox would essentially be trading Crede for a LF, when they could probably get a better LF in other trades or free agency and use Crede to get bullpen help.

I stand by my claim that KW will NOT make this move.