Carlos Silva Signs With Mariners

i feel bad for carlos silva. we are almost into January and he still doesnt have a team to play for yet, the saddest part is that many considered him the top free agent for a starter this year. So many teams depended upon trades this year and he was basically left out in the cold.

Anywho, that would be a good pickup for the Mariners.

Hernandez/Silva/Washburn/Batista

they would still need one more above average starter even after Silva, the rest of there starters wont cut it. Mark Prior might be a good idea for the Mariners as a #4 starter behind Washburn

A pitcher who won't pitch this year might be a good No. 4 for the M's? Man, and the NL Central gets crap for being a joke division but apparently you don't even need pitchers to actually throw the ball in AL West!

Priors not shelfed for the year, maybe a month or two, hes becoming heavily pursued by lots of teams, and ive read whispers of interest from the Mariners. Besides, a broken Prior is better then a working #5 starter from the Mariners

4years $44M, there is a sucker born every minute.

11 million per for a guy with a 4.19 era, only 89 K's (K/9=3.97) and sub .500 WPCT? Ridiculous!

You see Prior is being pursued by alot of teams that DONT need him to work out and have pitching where they can afford to wait on him... then there are a few teams that are desperate for pitching and NEED him to be able to pitch effectivly before the All-star break(Reds, Astros, Mariners to name a few).

Ummm Beltre is a great deal.

ummmm, no scootie puff jr, either just say he sucks or not or change the analogy, that one is incredibly stupid. i can do stupid ones too:

Carlos Silva is like a sugar powdered donut, he looks good on the outside and you want it no matter how much it is, then when your half way done with it, (mid-season) your like why did i pay so much for this donut, its not even that good and its giving me a stomach ache.

see, doesnt that sound silly?

ps- beltre was a good deal....

http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/individual_stats_player.jsp?playerID=400067&statType=2

Yikes $11mm per year for a guy one year removed from a 5.94 era.I wish I had tried harder in little league...

dude, just cuz i'm operating on a higher level, you don't gotta hate. here's the point:

silva doesn't suck, but he's borringly average. such a large commitment in terms of dollars and years to a player that's hopelessley average is foolish because it gums up roster space/ team funds in a player that won't lift you to the top or drag you to the bottom, but rather will keep you firmly anchored to the middle of the standings, 81 wins per year.

I was just tryin to have a little fun with it. Read it again, it holds up. Hope that anchor analogy wasn't too "out there" for ya.

they do analogies on children shows like sesame street haha. i dont know how that makes you "higher", but i can assure you that its lonely at the top isnt it?

good, thats all i wanted in the first place. i know it wasnt a joke, but it wasnt really funny, powdered donut was though

institutions of higher learning also use analogies to demonstrate the ability to find and replicate abstract relationships between two concepts. but whatever.

enjoy your diploma from devry university, your type-II diabetic figure, and your "thrilling" job as IT specialist.

how many of those did i get right?

so you ARE an IT guy/ DeVry alumn! there's nothing i can post at this point that would be more embarassing to you than than the fact that your name is attached to this poetry:

"Your trying to get the 1-up on me so you can love the fact that you get off on trying to make others feel bad because you yourself are insecure about you, your the loser friend, not me, i sleep well at night because i make a good living and dont try to bring others down."

wow.

so because i'm insecure i love the fact that i get off on trying to make others feel bad? was i trying to make others feel bad before? did i get off on it before? wait, no, i've got it all wrong. i'm trying to get the "1-up" on you so i can can love the fact that i get off on making others feel bad. but you sleep well because you make good money? if i made more money and didn't make others feel bad, or at love that i get off at trying to make others feel bad and then get the 1-up on them would i sleep better? or am i too insecure? is that it?

for the sake of peace on this board, lets just call this one over.

Heres an idea...you both shut up and talk baseball, you know since this is a baseball website. If you want to exchange words via the internet then trade screen names and save everyone the time of reading this blog.

Carlos Silva will never be better than a No.4 starter in the league. 4/44 seems high but I suppose he might be better of at Safeco than alot of places. Either way, I wouldnt pay the man that type of money.

I like stories...

The Crazy thing is looking at the desperation of these teams for pitching and how much they are willing to spend... once Bedard and Blaton are traded the Brewers 3 extra starters will look really good compared to these Free Agents.

Some reports are saying that Estrada was big part of the downfall of our pitchers because he was calling a horrid game and would fight with Mike Maddux(one reason estrada is gone to the Mets..OH WAIT he did not even last 2 weeks there).

Cappy- 2005 18 game winner, 2006 All-star, 2007 not good

Bush- 2006 had the best K/BB ration in the league, and the rest of his periphal stats were really good. 2007 Very up and down..would have good first 6 innings then would explode in the 7th.

Vargas- the Worst of the 3 can barely make it past 5 innings but usually does good those 5 innings then he explodes in the 6th.

Silva is getting a lot of flak here. He is not terrible. I'd prefer Silva to Kyle Lohshe. Silva is a solid guy most of the time. He pretty much avoided the "big inning" that crippled him two years ago. Although the money is crazy. Then again, this is the Zito era, so it is to be expected.

This contract makes me smile this year when the Brewers have much cheaper options to trade.

But this contract makes me cry when thinking of what a healthy Sheets in his Contract year will end up getting on the Open market Next year...can you say Zito Money...lol

I've been saying for a while now; it's pretty funny. The 4 worst contracts of the offseason might all be very recent Twins. Silva/Lohse (figure to be the worst 2 SP contracts). Romero (the worst reliever contract). And Castillo (the worst INF contract).

Pretty funny stuff.

Dude... don't forget Torii...

That's infield/outfield/rotation/bullpen. Nice.

It's kinda funny watching naive baseball fans be like "Holy crap! $11 mil a season for Carlos Silva! That's way too much! He sucks!" I don't think they understand market value. Actually, $44 million over 4 years is a little below market value for a guy who never gets injured, doesn't strikeout or walk anyone, and puts up a mediocre ERA (remember, this is coming from a Twins fan that witnessed Silva's '06). That being said, they could throw a AAA guy with average stuff, good durability, and good control (say, Brian Duensing)in there without it costing a penny, but these days teams seem to prefer to spend money instead of being smart.

ha. thanks, braaah.

scootie puff,

do you like come back to this page like every 5 minutes to see if anyone commented on ur analogy.. do u have anything else to do? haha

I'm glad Mr. Arodsucks jumped on that before I did.....what the hell kind of argument is that?

$11 million per year is not a bad contract for Silva because it is the "going rate" for pure mediocrity...which most teams could get from one or more AAA starters with average talent, average stuff, and good health.

OK, I'll bite and ask the painfully obvious question: then why in the hell is paying Carlos Silva $11 million annually in any way NOT a bad idea?

I like how everyone forgets how the M's were 14 games above .500 with the horrible rotation that they had that says that they don't really suck. not to mention that they beat the redsox more this year than the redsox beat them and they did the same to the yanks.also they were second in hitting last year in the major leagues

@barlowssilvia16

"also they were second in hitting last year in the major leagues"

Based on what? They were third in the majors in batting average, but 13th in OPS (a stat that actually means something). They had a 104 OPS+. Mediocre offense.

um is it just me, or was he 13-14 with a 4.19 last year?

they do have Francisco Liriano

For whatever it's worth though, more power to ya, Carlos. Congrats.

He always struck me as a hard-worker so he deserves the payday. This isn't a bonus baby winning the big ticket like Gil Meche was last year or Zito in SF. Silva didn't get his contract thru hype or raw stuff or reputation; he did it the old-fashioned way (hard work) so he deserves kudos.

Congratulations Seattle, this will surely be the mediocre starting pitcher with a marginally good G/F ratio that finally puts you over the top. Huzzah!

Man, this makes the Matsui signing look like a steal. $11 Million a year, WOW.

Lezard, good thoughts.

Boof obviously has to fix his conditioning, but I could see him in the rotation over Perkins just because Perkins could be the 2nd lefty that the Twins love in the bullpen (just a La Velle mentions in the above link). Plus Perkins didn't pitch many innings last year because of his injury, and the Twins have alluded to not wanting to jump up his IP too much in one season based on that.

It's entirely possible though, that a vet like Benson/Jennings is acquired and Boof and Perkins are BOTH in the pen to start the year. Both could be lights out relievers for a season with the stuff they have. It really could go something like:

Santana/Lester/Hughes
Liriano
Baker
Slowey
Vet like Jennings/Benson
with Boof/Perkins in the pen, and Nathan/Rincon possibly dealt.

I'm curious, why does everyone bash Silva who has a career mark under Park-Adjusted LgAvg ERA, 3 of the last four years where he has been under to much under that *LgERA and one year where he dominated really, just 3 years ago. Yet his 11M/YR is labeled such a joke while so many run around ridding the jock of a guy like Garland who has near identical numbers and makes 12M/YR. The only real difference between the two is that Silva has had one off year and has a little fewer SO but a much better BB rate… I think both are nothing more than SP3-types really and provide little in the way of upside, but if SP3-types can get up to 12M and everyone is ok with it for Garland then why would paying one 11M be considered such a joke?

...shite

poor Mariner fans. :(

darkstar, not many people think $12 M per year is fine for Garland. At least no intelligent fans do.

Don't set Silva up against another example of a bad contract for proof that his is good.

It's atrocious, quite simply.

djskilbr,

Oh I know not everyone feels that way, but a ton of people do! Each Garland thread we have had around here has pretty much proved that... And not trying to say Garland’s bad contract makes this bad contract any better, just trying to get people to remember that they might have been one of those loving Judy a few weeks ago where they are complaining about the very similar Silva here...

These innings eater guys have been making 10-12M a year for a couple years now, I don’t think acting like the world is coming to an end here is really necessary when it’s a contract on par with the other ~ and no worse than any of them…

I dont know man, but isnt it insane! Some of these guys arent even really LgAvg either, yet they are still getting amounts in that range. I mean Nate Robertson is asking for his new deal, will he too make 10Mish because he cant provide better than LgAvg numbers but will pitch 180-or-so innings? Most of these guys are just hanger-on types who can pitch a bunch of innings with nothing in the way of real promise, and nothing more. If they had something in the way of upside then I understand it a bit more, but most of these guys can be replaced from AAA instantly without problems.

"Agreed. Heck, I'd lump Dontrelle Willis into this group too. Why pay him now? You don't even know if he can pitch against the varsity league yet (my guess is that no, he can't)."

Oh not so sure I would lump him with the others because he is a roller-coaster instead of a nice steady train-ride ~ but I do agree 100% with not paying him at this time. I mentioned in that thread that his real value came in the fact that you got him for no raise if he had horrible numbers each year because he was an Arb case. With the 10Mish contract that’s eliminated though, and if he posts a 5.0-6.0 ERA now you are still stuck paying him huge amounts. I like him as a take-a-chance-type if he isnt making much more than his 6M-ish money in Arb after he fails ~ at the amount they just signed him to though, his value is pretty much eliminated... He has to put up a 4ish ERA or lower now or its just wasted money for 3 years ~ and I really, really question his ability to do that…

Regardless of the money, what bothers me is that being an "innings eater" is now conisdered a skill. A starting pitcher is supposed to eat innings. We're about 8-10 years from the demise of the starting rotation, and pitching by commitee every game like little league.

Actually, the Yankees 2008 rotation may not be too far from a bullpen driven group. As it currently stands, Wang is the only starter who is probably expected to go over 6 innings a start. Pettitte is just getting up in age and hasn’t been able to go as deep the last couple years, Mussina is a total crap shoot and I cant imagine they want to give Joba/Hughes/Kennedy that many innings since they are so young/inexperienced. If only one of their starters is expected to pitch well into the 6th inning on any given day, then you kind of have something close to what you are asking for…

The Rotation of Bullpen arms doenst generally work that great though. The WhiteSox kind of did it in 2003-2004 when they had their 4th and 5th spot kind of looking like that. The results were less than inspiring and led to them really stocking up on the arms for 2005. I think the Mariners also tried something similar with their last two spots around the same time ~ I remember them having a whole slew of questions in the rotation where they were just hoping to get 3-4 innings out of most of them…

All I would like to say is thank you Bavasi for saving Sabean's ass by alleviating him of this off season's worst contracts. On some levels this might even rival the Barry Zito contract. Silva is horrendous, therefore will fit perfectly on the Seattle staff.

Calculate it out though.

Really you're looking at something like 1530 innings a year for your staff max. With September callups as well, etc. you're really asking your 12 guys (you go to a 12 vs. 11 man staff) to go about 115 innings each on average. That should be doable from essentially long relievers.

I'd look to use about 4 (sometimes 5) guys a night. If you do that, and rotate everyone well, you're keeping everyone fresh enough from game to game.

I AM NOT A MARINERS FAN.

BUT INSTEAD OF MAKING FUN OF SEATTLE AND THEIR FANS why not look at what this really represents? This deal, as high as it might seem, will look like a bargain in 3 years. If you think I am crazy for saying so, then look at the last 20 years of baseball salaries, esp. pitching. This is actually going to be an even move over the life of the agreement.

When top tier position players reached 12M/YR 6 years ago, people chimed in about how foolish those teams that paid were. Today the critical fans ends up wishing they had paid those prices when we now see the top tier guys receiving 15-20M/YR.

So I guess the trick is not to think strictly in terms of today's bargains. What is going to be the bargain towards the end of the deal? There's always an inherent risk with pitchers but 3 years is minimal risk time-wise.

Well, every season it's a new round of Beat-Up-The-Latest-Worst-Contract -Signing Game. I am not saying that all of these contracts ends up being good. A million things can happen to make Silva's deal go south so I won't bother noting them all here. Then again he could pull off a Meche-type surge in new surroundings charged with a more pitcher-friendly park and leaving the artificaly turf of the Dome.

Though I am just throwing out the possibility that, even assuming league average performance from Silva, he might be worth than 12M/YR in 2010 which would be the bargain rate for middle-tier SPs. By then we might be hearing some talk about Silva's name in trade rumors if he is such an innings-eater. The middle-tier guys get traded at the deadline more often than top or second tier guys. I'm just suggesting that there is some room for flexibility for Seattle.

I would be more critical of their Sexson or Beltre signings but that is another story. Starting pitching is always on an inflationary scale market-wise (as we are learning today on the trade and free agent fronts).

Sorry $12 million....

This deal is hardly likely to look like a bargain in the coming years. People said that with the way salaries were rising in 2000 as well.

What people don't understand about Gil Meche is that he was the seen the way Daniel Cabrera and Zach Greinke are now - guys with a load of potential who haven't met it. The Royals banked on that potential. The Mariners will be paying $21 million to Silva and Miguel Batista, two league average (or below for Batista) moderate groundballers. Not only does Silva have a high bust potential because you can never tell what's going to happen to guys who pitch to so much contact like Silva (his opponent BABIP could work against him and then turn off the lights on him, he'll be cooked), but his upside is relatively low. This is not a good deal. You can't just jam your staff full of these 4.20-4.60 ERA guys and hope to win. Add in Washburn and the Mariners are paying $31 million a year for a lot of uninspiring mediocrity.

Horrible deal.