Phillies Not Getting Bedard

Eh, good try Gillick. Looking more and more like the search for another starter is done for PHI

I think Kendrick is a good chip for another bat/reliever because he is at absolute peak value IMO (don't see him sustaining a sub 4 ERA with a nearly 1:1 K:BB in 30 starts), but then again, who would take his place?

That package would have been a mighty price to pay, especially assuming that Carrasco and/or Cardenas were the prospects

I don't think the prospects were Cardenas and Carrasco along with Kendrick and Victorino.... That package would have toted, wrapped and packaged neatly under the Christmas tree... I'm not being a "homer" here but seriously... That package is better than anything i've heard so far.... Victorino is better than Matt Kemp... Carrasco is in the same class as Phil Hughes and Clay Buchholz... Cardenas is one of the best 2nd base prospects in all of baseball ( according to baseball america)... Kendrick is probably the most non-electic player of the bunch and he just came off a season in which you could have considered him for ROY... The Phils have the pieces for this deal.... It's just a matter of how much they are willing to give up......... I personally am not a fan of pawning off the farm for one or two players.... But, Gillick is getting desperate to pair Hamels and Myers up with another ace... Good luck Pat.

I always respected your posts and opinions on here, but do you mind telling us why Victorino is better then Kemp? Is it just an opinion? Because you cant expect to post that and not get bashed like crazy for it. Same thing with Carrasco and Hughes. It would be like if I said Castillo is better then Utley. I dont know how you could make anyone believe Victorino is better then Kemp, but you should atleast try to explain when making a big time statement like that.

No Slugdog, I don't do drugs, thanks thought. Althought I am intelligent enough to realize that giving up Victorino, who is a perfect compliment in our lineup to Rollins, Utley, and Howard. He has a rifle for an arm, has potential to steal 40+ bags, and yea he bats .280 and is good for 15 homers. That is a bad number 2 hitter? Get outta here with that comment, ill consider him a stud.

Kendrick, yea he will regress this year. The thing about him though is that he is always poised, never gets rattled, and has a short memory. Hes a good fit in the rotation.

Bedard is a good pitcher and he has gotten better every year hes been in the league but Im not sure he is the answer. If youre gonna go after a frontline starter then go big time, dont give me Bedard for 2 important pieces of our roster. Especially, when we already dealt Micheal Bourn.

Is it just me, or was Shane Victorino FIGHTING for at bats after coming off the DL because he couldnt even take his job back from Jayson Werth. The dude is a nice player, and the flyin hawaain, but he is not a stud, and isnt better then Matt Kemp. I could hit 15 bombs out of CBP.

What do you mean if youre going to go after a big time starter go big time. Bedard isnt big time enough for you? You think your bum prospects arre getting any body better then him? It was a reach to believe you could have BEdard for the dime a dozen victorino. Maybe you could get Joe Blanton, which would be awesome. For the Mets and Braves.

"Ryan Church > Victorino"

You could make a much better case for that. Church's career OPS is higher than anything Victorino's ever put up in a full season.

To be fair, Victorino's hammy still wasn't in great shape when he "came back" after being on the DL AND for a while there Werth was absolutely raking. You can't take him out there.

Church is a nice player, but in all honesty, I'll take Vic. (Can I have Church instead of Werth?)

Maybe you guys should all read more closely. I said Victorino is a stud in OUR lineup. He is the perfect compliment and brings tangibles we dont have. His speed, defense and arm have helped US win a ton of games. I guess what I trying to say is that he is a more valuable player in our lineup than in the Orioles. Theyre lineup is in shambles.

As for Matt Kemp...I do think Matt Kemp is a better player overall than Victorino. Absolutely. But if you are gonna ask me who "fits" better, its the Flyin Hawaiian. Although, you wont hear compaints out of me if we were in a position to acquire a Matt Kemp. And for the Ryan Church comment, Ill pretend I didnt read it. Good player but no thanks.

So Relax and read better.

Ya know, it really has to suck to have an organization like the Orioles tell you that you don’t have the talent to get one of their players…

booby, as a fellow Phils fan, I'd have to say that Carrasco would have to be in that package to even make it a competitive offer. Maybe not him and Cardenas, but at least Carlos. Look at what the Dodgers have been talking about for Bedard.

And I love Vic and don't want him going anywhere, but Kemp is definitely a more desirable prospect. He's got the physical tools of a Dave Winfield.

I do think some of the people on this thread are underrating Vic's speed, arm and defense. Sure he swings at everything, but he has some pop and is definitely a threat on the basepaths. And what did he steal like 35 bases in a row before he hurt himself? This guy brings great energy to the ballpark every night. You will see a lot of highlight plays from him this year in center. He's definitely shown ne more than the uberhyped Carlos Gomez, who looked overmatched at the plate at times last year.

For all his fearlessness and hype Rowand had average range and never once hit a cutoff man with a slightly above average arm. He also had a long swing, was constantly battling injuries and struck out a ton. Great clubhouse guy and clutch performer, but not a solid 5 year investment IMO

As players they aren't too disparate, I knew you'd come back with an experience difference.

And Gomez will likely split time in the bigs again this year and get 250 ABs. I'd trade him too if the alternative is keeping him on the bench while he misses desperately-needed minor league development time. That strategy didn't work out too well for Milledge either, come to think of it

Why any team would give up any serviceable player for Bedard is beyond me.

He is certainly no "stud." If MLB pitchers were bred from the seed of Bedard, there would be none left. Baseball would be over.

This is a pitcher who at age 22 had to undergo TJ surgery. A journeyman like Kendrick managed at age 22 to win 10 games, post a sub 4 ERA and pitch quite well down the stretch of a tight divisional race (something Bedard has never done and probably never will do), without straining a single muscle.

This is a pitcher who was unable to complete the 2005 season without spraining his knee so severely that he had to miss 2 months.

This is a pitcher who did not have a really good year until 28 and, even then, fell apart by early September, winding up on the DL for the rest of the season.

The Phillies would have to be crazy to trade any of Victorino or Carrasco or Kendrick for Bedard. The notion of trading all three is unspeakably stupid -- the kind of idiotic move that has kept that franchise in the doldrums for a seeming eternity.

The idea of such a trade has been denied by both the Phillies and Orioles. It was apparently a rumor started by Philadelphia fans to goad the Mets into actually doing a comparable trade -- their no. 3 starter (whoever that is) plus Church plus their best pitching prospect for Bedard. The thought was that the Mets would bite and wind up as a .500 team or worse in 2008, as they get 10 starts from Bedard before he winds up on the DL with a shoulder, elbow, back, knee or other problem.

The O's are some organization. A team of burned out steroid abusers -- so much so that Bedard has flatly refused to sign an extension with them at any price. Meanwhile, they expect no one knows what for their "stud" pitcher, who would be more aptly compared to a thoroughbred with such a hopelessly broken body that it should be shot.

Incredible.

wow i saw this coming guys. i knew it like they had a chance seriously they dont have enough chips. i know neither do the mets but really they had a lower percentage of getting bedard

Jersey: I said as players they aren't too disparate. Very fast corner OF/CF guys with plus defense, good arms, threat on the basepaths, questionable pitch selection.

Gomez is bigger and more projectable for power but much more raw. I'd be surprised if he has an arm better than Shane's or proves to be a more effective base stealer.

There's no proving either way. Prove to me he's Shane Victorino at worst. You can't. There have been plenty of hot prospects who flamed out big time. You obviously like Gomez, I'd like him if he was on my club.