Pirates, Indians Talking Bay

We've known for a while now that the Pirates have outfielder Jason Bay on the block.  A big deal for Bay could put new Pirates GM Neal Huntington on the map.  According to Michael Silverman of the Boston Herald, the Indians are engaged in talks for Bay.  This isn't a big surprise, since Huntington came from the Cleveland organization.

Trading Bay now seems like a sell-low move, unless the Bucs feel Bay won't bounce back in 2008.  Andy Marte, Cliff Lee, and Jeremy Sowers could be available from the Tribe.  Silverman notes that Indians' backup catcher Kelly Shoppach has been mentioned in the talks with Pittsburgh.  Shoppach would be a capable starter for most teams.  The Indians could also part with an outfielder, perhaps Shin-Soo Choo or Ben Francisco. 

While the White Sox have also been linked to Bay, Dejan Kovacevic says there's nothing cooking right now.

Comments

[bravesbeast]

If the Pirates are going to trade their best player, it makes sense for them to get pieces at places where they need future starters. That being said, if I were the pirates, I would definitely ask for Jeremy Sowers, Kelly Shopach, and Andy Marte. Sowers is a nice option to have in the rotation for the future, even as a replace if they trade another starter, shoppach will become their catcher behind the plate, and marte could provide the future production needed at third.

[tolo316]

Good point, bravesbeast.

I think a deal like Marte, Spoppach, and Sowers would work for both teams. The Pirates get a nice shot of youth to build upon and the Indians get a right handed bat to put between Sizemore and Hafner.

[MickS]

Depends on which Bay is being shopped. If it's the one that hits .240 with an OPS of .750, Marte., Shoppach and Sowers is way, way too much. The Dellucci/Michaels platoon can do that. I think the Pirates are in a sell low situation unless they can prove '07 was a fluke, which of course they can't until the '08 season is underway. As it stands now, they'd be lucky to get Shoppach plus Lofgren unless the deal gets bigger with Snell or Gorzelanny involved.

[darkstar1661]

The Cleveland Indians; your one stop rebuild shop…
C ~ Shoopach
INF ~ Marte, Barfield
OF ~ S.S.Choo, BenFran
SP ~ Cliff Lee, Jeremy Sowers, Aaron Laffey
RP ~ Ed Mujica, Juan Lara, Tom Matsney…

But, the thing is Marte is out of options ~ he is either kept on the Tribes roster all year, waived or traded. I really don’t see them waiving him and if they cant get return they will probably give him a bench spot to start atleast. The S.S.Choo-Choo Train also needs a ML job at this point, he was ML-Ready 2 years ago already…

I imagine Bay would be had for something like Marte, Shoopach + Lee (if they will take his salary) ~ makes perfect sense I think. If they wanted to expand it to include Nady as well, we would probably include a reliever.

Otherwise, some type of deal will be made with Pitt, Fla or SF this year ~ those teams just have too many holes to fill and Cleveland has too many guys that need a shot elseware.

[kett08]

Sowers, Shoppach, and Marte is a fair trade. The Pirates are NOT interested in taking on Cliff Lee's contract (I would say the Pirates are never interested in taking on a veteran pitcher's contract but then the Pirates did trade for Morris). Littlefield's days are over so that definitely won't happen again. Mick, it is very easy to prove that 2007 was a down year fluke even before the 2008 season starts. Bay has a major league 890 OPS, a whopping .375 OBP, and home run totals of 35, 32, and 26 the three years before 2007 (the OPS number and the OBP number includes this past year). Bay is a good player, and Marte, Shoppach, and Sowers is a good return for a good player.

[darkstar1661]

Kett, Lee's contract is rather minimal ~ 3.75/5.75 the next two years. Less than 10M for 2 years ~ cant get a Vet pitcher for that elsware and if they are looking to dump Morris (like is rumored) then they might see that as a nice alternative.

[coryjwilson]

Come on Royals! Make your move for Bay already!

[kett08]

Hmm, that isn't so bad, but the team would still rather have 4+ years of a cheap pitcher than two years of Cliff Lee at 9.5 million.

[jza1218]

I really dont think the Indians have enough to acquire Bay.

Why would the Pirates want Andy Marte when they have Neil Walker?

Why would they want Jeremy Sowers or Cliff Lee when they ALREADY have three starting LHP's in Gorzellany, Zach Duke and Paul Maholm?

There's nothing there that really convinces me that the Indians are a legit trading partner for Bay.

[TribefanNick]

"Andy Marte, Cliff Lee, and Jeremy Sowers could be available from the Tribe. Silverman notes that Indians' backup catcher Kelly Shoppach has been mentioned in the talks with Pittsburgh. Shoppach would be a capable starter for most teams. The Indians could also part with an outfielder, perhaps Shin-Soo Choo or Ben Francisco."

I don't see the Indians trading more than a couple of players cited in the article and absolutely none of what is proposed by most in these comments. Why would Cleveland trade parts for which they have no depth at AAA, i.e. Shoppach or Marte. Their next best option at C is at AA (I believe - Wyatt Toregas). Also, Shoppach is the personal catcher for Paul Byrd. 3B Casey Blake is a FA next year (I believe - so a AAA candidate must be available to step up if Blake doesn't re-sign). Trading Peralta would create a hole at SS which COULD be filled by Asdrubal Cabrera (if he can avoid the sophmore jinx) but would create a hole in MI bench depth. Same could be said for trading Josh Barfield. Darkstar's list of available major league ready trade commodities seems pretty complete, but Lara is not a legitimate trade candidate since his accident has left him in a coma.
Cleveland's strength is their SP and OF - at least in quantity.
If this trade were to go through, I would imagine that it would involve 1 of Lee, Sowers, or Laffey and an OF from Francisco or Choo. I suppose you could add the names of Dellucci and Michaels to that list but who'd buy into that? It's also POSSIBLE that the Tribe would part with 1 of Shoppach, Marte, and Barfield, but I doubt it. Whatever else it would take would have to come from the minors (and don't even suggest Miller or Lofgren).

[Newmie]

The Pirates are looking at Headley for third, even with Walker. The Pirates didn't trade for Ryan Howard because we already had a power hitting 1B in Brad Eldred. The Pirates should look to fill holes, but they first should look for the best players. Walker is athletic enough to play a corner outfield or even firstbase if the Pirates find a legit 3rd bagger. Bay to San Diego for headley and a pitching prospect would be nice. As foir KC, how was Teahan at third base. I would love to see them acquire a lefty 3B for that short porch in right. I feel that both Bay and Nady will be traded and Snell couls also be had, for a lot(maybe a Santana/Haren loser)? I know Snell isn't better than Santana, but he is similar to Haren with better health and more years before free agency. Dodgers would be a great partner for Snell.

[darkstar1661]

Nick,

First ~ Oh my God, I cant believe that! I had totally missed the Lara thing, such a horrible, horrible tragedy though! Loved watching the kid in what little I got to see of him; do hope he pulls through ok! Did it happen on Thanks Giving day too? What a sad, sad thing to hear…

Anyway, yeah ~ J-Mike and DavidD are of course also on the tradable list (and will be dealt if any OFer is brought in I imagine), but doubt Pitt would be interested in either of them in a deal for Bay. Also possibly added to the list is Trevor Crowe ~ his stock might be down a little bit though ATM, and I don’t really want to trade him anyway so I don’t mind.

Marte HAS to be traded though, the team will not want him on the roster the entire year, and they would have to Waive him otherwise ~ he’s out of options… IE, the same situation as B.Phillips ~ he will be dealt this offseason in some type of package for a LFer or 3B (with Blake moving to RF and FrankieG manning LF with J-Mike. I also imagine they will keep Barfield for 2B (who can go to the minors), move AsCab to SS and Peralta to 3B after the year if a 3B isn’t brought in or if Blake is allowed to walk. (yes he is a FA in 2009 BTW) That would alleviate the 3B hole in the minors…

Shoopach also will more than likely be dealt with random back-up being signed. He is too much of a commodity around baseball, deserves much more playing time and just wont get it behind V-Mart. Shoot, even a guy like Eniar Diaz could take his spot (a guy we had in AAA last year) With Martinez playing just about ever single game behind the plate, it is just to minimal playing time for him though. Only thig possibly holding this up in my mind is if they are a little fearful of Garko keeping up his pace (lets not forget, they were reluctant to give him the job anyway…) ~ if that is the case they possibly keep Shoopach and use V-Mart at 1B more like they did a little of in 07…

I also feel that BenFran should almost be considered a Marlin now ~ they have wanted him for a while and even if they get Willits from Anaheim they will probably come knocking for him. I even hope that they might ask about Lee & BenFran for Scott Olsen ~ but that’s possibly hopeful thinking…