What Might've Been: Beckett And Lowell For Blalock And Danks

steve phillips offered jose reyes and david wright as marginal pieces in 2 separate trades as mets gm. omar minaya, then assistant and scout for the mets, told the mets org not to trade jose reyes at any cost.

god i hate phillips.

Alex Rodriguez for Manny/Lester, was supposed to have been followed by a Nomar for Magglio Ordonez trade. Now that has some dizzying after effects.

One thing that you missed is the possibility that with Gonzalez signed the Red Sox would have moved Hanley to CF and started Marte at 3B, never trading for Coco. This would have had a huge impact on the Sox. For one thing Ellsbury would currently be seen as a luxury rather than an essential. Adding in the fact that they probably would not have just won the World Series, and would not have Beckett at the top of their rotation an Ellsbury and Lester trade for Johan would probably happen. That would give the Twins enough to potentially compete in two or three years with a Lester, Liriano, Baker, Perkins, Slowry rotation and a Young, Cuddeyer, Elsbury, Kubal, Mauer, Justin lineup.

But perhaps the biggest ripple is that without Beckett in the rotation Paplebon would probably be a starter.

or if the giants kept liriano, nathan and bonser

james slight problem, with Hanley in CF, Ellsbury wouldn't have the name, and would be a run of the mill prospect, Ellsbury and Lester would be seen in the same light as Lester and Lowrie (which is still 2 really good young players)

Hanley was sorta indifferent in AA (good but not up to potential), he wouldn't have been with Boston at all in 2007 unless he set the world on fire, it was only his great spring that got him the starting gig with the Marlins.

quintjs,

I agree with you that Hanley would probably not have started the season with the Sox (in 2006). I think you missed a season because he certaily would not still be in the minors now (maybe traded, but not still in the minors). However Boston was thinking about moving him to CF around that time, and had they done so it is unlikely that they would have sent Marte to Cleveland for Crisp, especially with no other 3B in sight. Without Crisp there the chances of Ramirez getting a chance to play are stronger, though not definate.

As for your claim about Jacoby... I don't understand what you are saying. He was a top prosepct before the season started, and had a very good year this year in the minors. He would be almost the exact same prospect even if he had not been in the majors this year.

the what might have been id like to see is what might have been if the Jays had gotten Ryan Howard. i cant remember what year it was but it was back when the Phillies still had Jim Thome at 1B blocking Howard. i dont know if any additional players were involved, but from what i remember the Phillies offered Howard to Toronto for Ted Lilly. it was Jays GM Ricciardi who said no (dumbass!)
the Jays could have had Howard at 1B. they then would not have acquired Overbay/Taubenheim from Milwaukee for Bush/ZJackson/Gross. not sure Toronto would have also done the deal with Arizona to get Glaus/Santos for Hudson/Batista. i guess the Jays could have kept Hudson at 2B and put Hill at 3B where he played when he first came up.

the Jays could have had Ryan f'n Howard! :(

Without Beckett, you have the distinct possibility that Papelbon stays in the rotation. Does that mean the Red Sox went hard after Rivera or Cordero this offseason? Maybe the Red Sox have already included Buchholz or both Lester and Elsbury in a deal for Santana. Endless possibilities!

Come on Tim!! These "what if scenarios" are lame. This is not fantasy baseball in a literal sense. Live in the "is" and not the "what if!"

I love this idea.

Another person affected by that trade would have been Joe Girardi. If the Marlins don't have Sanchez and Ramirez and really do end up losing 11 more games, then he doesn't win the NL Manager of the Year in '06, and he may not be managing the Yankees right now.

PS- Beckett is filthy

Very interesting feature, definitely some really great topics thrown out for future discussions also. One I've thought about time and time and again isn't so much a trade that didn't happen, but more the dismantling of a great team, the 1994 Expos. What if ownership had the money to keep Larry Walker when he reached free agency? If they had the cash to hang onto Marquis Grissom, Ken Hill and John Wetteland instead of trading them away? That 1995 team would have been a juggernaut:

C Darrin Fletcher 105 OPS+
1B David Segui 109 OPS+
2B Mike Lansing 78 OPS+
3B Sean Berry 130 OPS+
SS Wil Cordero 97 OPS+
RF Larry Walker 130 OPS+
CF Marquis Grissom 80 OPS+(down year in ATL in 1995)
LF Moises Alou 106 OPS+

Bench:
Cliff Floyd, Rondell White, Henry Rodriguez, Mark Grudzelianek, Tim Laker

Rotation:
Pedro Martinez 123 ERA+
Carlos Perez 117 ERA+
Ken Hill 95 ERA+
Jeff Fassero 99 ERA+
Butch Henry 152 ERA+

Bullpen:

John Wetteland 158 ERA+
Mel Rojas 105 ERA+
Jeff Shaw 103 ERA+
Tim Scott 108 ERA+
Greg Harris 165 ERA+
Luis Aquino 112 ERA+
Kirk Rueter 133 ERA+

If you could some of that core together for a couple of more years until Vlad, O-Cab, Vidro, Urbina, etc made it to the show, what would the landscape have looked like? Do the Yanks win that first series in 1996? Do the Braves get their only ring in 1995?

The one that fascinates me as a Twin fan is the Knoblauch deal. For Knoblauch, the Twins received Guzman, Buchanan, Milton, and Mota. For Buchanan, the Twins received Bartlett. For Milton, the Twins received Silva and Punto. For Bartlett and others, the Twins were able to acquire Delmon Young, Jason Pridie, and Brendan Harris. The by-products of the Knoblauch deal have no end in sight, as long as the Twins one day acquire players for Punto, Young, Harris, or Pridie!

“quintjs,
I agree with you that Hanley would probably not have started the season with the Sox (in 2006). I think you missed a season because he certaily would not still be in the minors now (maybe traded, but not still in the minors). However Boston was thinking about moving him to CF around that time”

…Actually, I think you are on the right path; but might have the end results wrong SpecialFNK,

The Coco/Bard/Riske for Marte/Shoppach/Mota would not have taken place because of Andy Marte preparing to be the Sox 3B ~ they would have probably instead taken the lesser demands from the M’s for the riskier player in Jeremy Reed. It might have still been Ramirez packing his bags though, cant remember exactly what they were asking for…

Now, with that being the case, then you have Cleveland, Philadelphia and SanDiego all effected quite a bit on the flip-side. Cleveland never trades for Jason Michaels from Philly and of course the whole Bard/Wakefield problems never take place… Also, would the BoSox be looking at possible catchers now in the chance Tex needs to be replaced if Shoppach is still around?

So Tim, your post should probably be udated with the following things not, or instead, taking place:

~ Cle Coco/Bard/Riske to Bos Marte/Shoppach/Mota deal doesn’t go down
~ Boston probably trades ??? to Seattle for Jeremy Reed
~ Cleveland doesn’t trade Arthur Rhodes to Philly for Jason Michaels
~ Boston doesn’t trade Cla Meredith and Josh Bard to SD for Doug Mirabelli. If Shoppach couldnt catch Wake then I guess he might have gone in Bards place, maybe…
~ Boston also cant trade Riske for Javier Lopez from the ChiSox, taking a solid arm out of their 07 bullpen!

Wow, you really opened up a can of worms here, Tim. This could get really out of control. I look forward to more of this. Just thinking about all the various possibilities of the moves that never happened makes my head start to hurt.

i read it it was fantastic!!!
It also said they were extremely close to signing arod until texas swooped in unexpectedly and offered him a ridiculous contract!!! Also it says that if those moves were made they wouldnt of had the money to sign greg maddux and maybe with the arod move to extend tim hudson making him an fa after the 05 season

That is the cool thing about having a few years of archives with comments, we have a true record of what people thought at the time of the deal. Will only get cooler as the site ages.

I suppose I could ask Capozzi why the deal fell through...