Brian Roberts Rumors

Hawkeye26 I think pie batting 6th or 7th is a good idea...I am with ya..

Seriously, I love his lineup...

Fukudome will be fine, I am not worried about him at all making the transition. He is a contact hitter with good wheels. I would love the batting order of

Roberts
soriano
fukudome
lee
ramirez
soto
theriot
pie.

If roberts or soriano get on base it would set up really good hit and run situations, or straight steals with fukudome at the plate. Then you would have lee whom has some power still and a great contact hitter at the plate followed by 2 power hitters.

Can the month of march go as fast as the month of Feb has please!

"1. Roberts
2. Theriot
3. Lee
4. Ramirez
5. Fukudome
6. Soriano
7. Pie
8. Soto"

I would agree that this is probably the most realistic and best possible option, but I think there would be a ton of hesitation about putting Soriano in the 6 spot. They gave him a $136M contract, and I know that shouldn't mean anything, but I think it might. Really the issue here is that any of those four guys is probably too good to bat in the 6 spot. One option would be moving Theriot to the end of the order and putting D Lee in the 2 spot, followed by Fukudome, Ramirez, Soriano, Pie, Soto, Theriot. Either the lineup I listed or the one above are probably the best two options.

1 Roberts
2 Soriano
3 Fukudome
4 Lee
5 Ramirez
6 Pie
7 Soto
8 Theriot
Soriano I know isn’t a high OBP guy but he is protected batting 2nd and the Cubs and him want him to get back to 30/30 this year. If he could get back to 30 steals put that with 30 steals by Roberts. When was the last time you have heard about a lot of double steals? Then 3 high OBP guys behind those 2 I understand that most people don’t agree but with Roberts on base, he is a base stealing threat. Pitchers tend to throw a little harder (fastballs) to help keep the runner at first. The 2 spot in the line will typically see fastballs. This would be a good spot for Soriano to hit. He is such a great fastball hitter; it’s hard for me to believe that he should fit anywhere else in the lineup. I do agree though that he may have to take some pitches (which hasn’t been his strong point in the past). Remember folks that this is just my opinion and how I feel. It just makes sense to me. This also breaks up the lefties and righties a little bit better with Fukudome hitting 3rd and Lee and Ramirez following.
I also agree with hitting Pie 7th or even 6th. If what they have been saying is true, with trying to teach him a shorter swing and using his unbelievable speed to get on base, then Soto and Theriot could follow. He will also see better pitches in the 6th or 7th hole. I believe he only needs a confidence booster.

Its not just about HRs...its more SLG than anything that you want in the 3,4,and 5 holes. I do think Lee would be a great #2 hitter, but I also see him hitting 35 bombs this year too...so I'm kind of torn. With Roberts I would go:

1. Roberts
2. Lee
3. Ramirez
4. Fukudome
5. Soriano
6. Soto
7. Pie
8. Theriot\Cedeno
9. Pitcher

Without Roberts:

1. Soriano (no point in arguing, its going to happen)
2. Fukudome
3. Lee
4. Ramirez
5. Soto
6. DeRosa
7. Pie
8. Theriot\Cedeno
9. Pitcher

I differ from some bc I think Soto posts an .800 or better OPS next year. I think if you bat him after all those high OBP guys and he is going to flat out produce.

I think the general rule of thumb for me would be

You take the three highest SLG guys and bat them 3 4 and 5 in your lineup in order of their OBP.

From whats left, you take the top two OBP guys and bat them 1 and 2, depending on speed.

The rest of the order goes in order of OPS.

Soriano throws that all out of whack and its not as easy as that...but I think thats a good way to look at building a lineup.

Aduncaroo

I agree in a way...but you also have to look at right, left right batting order that Pinella wants. You also have to look at where players are confortable and where they have suceeded in the past.

Yes, I agree with you uww1, which is why it can never be perfect. I still think Soriano at 90% of what he was in the 3 through 6 hole is better than 100% in the 1...but thats a whole other discussion. I think Fukudome lacks the power to be a 3,4,or 5 guy, but we will see. But how can you not like his OBP and hitting to all fields while being patient and taking pitches in that 2 hole? I think its made for him if we don't get Roberts.

I dont want to give up Hart though. How about we exchange Marquis and Coco Crisp. If thats not enough give them someone like Fox also.

They just signed Jason Marquis, I don't think he would interest them in the slightest bit...if not Murton and Hart, maybe Murton and Petrick...or even something like Wuertz straight up might work if we were taking the whole salary on.

Maybe Wuertz and Fox or something...who knows. I would think Murton might be some decent insurance for not picking up Manny next year too in the worse case scenario.

I kind of like the idea. Then Roberts for Pie and Patterson.

You gotta love this:

Roberts
Crisp
Lee
Ramirez
Fukudome
Soriano
Soto
Cedeno

Jr, I think you have Crisp in the wrong half of the lineup. Didn't Boston have him in the bottom. I'd say 7

I know what you're saying Milurn. He was a seven and actually a 9 a lot (that's a good lineup), although Crisp used to be a two. It depends on your philosophy. I don't want the lineup too front-loaded. You can hide a hitter in the two-hole as long as he has some bat skills. He strikes out a little too much, but he runs and he can bunt. Laugh now, but he even has some offensive upside. Crisp could do it.

And then look at the strength you have in the middle of that lineup. Soriano at 6 and Soto at 7. That is no breaks.

7 would work too.

Dude, I want the platoon partner so bad! Damn we missed on So Taguchi! As I have said, I will not accept Fuld or Cedeno as backups (Cedeno in a pinch is fine), and I will welcome Marlon Byrd or Reed Johnson.

You are right about Pie, Adun, but we give up much less this way, or rather, we give up what we have slight surpluses of (CF - Pie, Colvin, Patterson, Fuld) (C- Soto, Donaldson) and keep what we need, which are Gallagher, Cedeno, and our young arms.

Yeah, Pie could work out, but they're getting ready to raid our pitching!

And Crisp, I thought it was $5 million or something.

I'm for Pie all the way. I think his defense can make up for his offense, mostly. If he's under .220 I'd may be looking.

I knew Bosox l/up was good and Crisp batting 9 was second leadoff. Would make him better than I thought.

I would pass on Crisp though. As I posted earlier, I think we need a RH hitter/power bat on the bench. I checked out Byrd and Johnson. Offense not much different than Murton. Better D/more options from those two.

If Pie is below .200 and we needed a #7/#8 CF who could be hit a little, run a little, play D we could always get ......Forgive me......CPat. I'll think I'll log off and go to bed!

Just a thought

And he plays CF

Just wanted to add, Tim, you know you're big when you have to put a disclaimer at the bottom of the page: "MLBTradeRumors.com is not affiliated with Major League Baseball, MLB, or MLB.com!" (heehee)

Sorry, Crisp is owed about 10 mil over two years, not per year. My bad...

Still think Pie gives us the same production for the league minimum though...

PS. The rangers are run by a bunch of retards for not taking Murton straight up for Byrd. I'm not even saying that I like Byrd either, but they are jokes for not making that trade.

This is the question: Is DeRosa better than Jeter defensively at SS?

We actually gain a little defensively if DeRosa replaces Theriot at SS, according to his career Rate 2. He's not in his prime anymore, but he's a good enough athlete so that I'd expect him to still have average range (or only very slightly below average range). I think we've all seen him showcase the strength and accuracy of his arm to not question that facet of his game. I don't have Jeter's Rate 2 or ZR in front of me. I'll look tomorrow and tell you;)

Theriot is a below average defensive SS, and has a very poor arm.

If the Cubs acquire Roberts, I'm certain Lou will start the year with Theriot as his shortstop. I'd be very surprised to not see DeRosa replace him at some point in time during the year. Lou made it clear last year that if you don't perform, you don't play. And it's only a matter of time before Theriot underperforms his way out of the starting job, if another option like DeRosa or Cedeno is available...

I agree that Colvin/Ceda is WAY too much. Adding Colvin alone will raise eyebrows around the league. Remember that McPhail asked for Adam Jones, Jeff Clement, Rob Morrow and Chris Tillman for Bedard before settling on a good, but realistic package. It's just his way and you can't really blame him for trying to get the most he possibly can. In the end it will probably be Gallagher, Cedeno and another pitching prospect. The Cubs may throw in Patterson too since they seem to like him so much.
As for Murton, he is likely a fourth outfielder but I think a lot of Cub fans would like to see him get the chance to prove otherwise. You never know. I've mentioned before that he took baseball up late in life. He could be a late bloomer.
DeRosa at SS? It's not even a topic of discussion in Cubs camp and rightfully so. He doesn't have the quickness to play SS. He's stretched at second. Supersub is a great role for him and one he succeeded with in Texas. The Cubs need good depth to survive those Wrigley summers. DeRosa would be a huge step in providing that.
I don't believe Cedeno will ever play up to his physical tools. He's the same type of player as Jacque Jones, Will Ohman and Angel Pagan in my opinion -- good players from the neck down. It isn't a coincidence that these guys are disappearing from the Cubs roster.
Piniella was a grind it out ballplayer who knew how to play the game. He isn't going to consult the sabermetrics handbook to piece his team together. He knows the game better than that. He's going to put solid, coachable players on the field that can help the team in a variety of ways. This includes speed and baserunning ability. That means Theriot and Pie will be on the field come opening day. There's a reason why those guys win at every level they play at.

Maybe, but I think ronny has the tools that you have to give him another chance. I think worse case he puts up numbers like theriot did last year anyway. Man, its about time the cubs developed a ss! Too bad they traded greene

Adun, we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. At worst Cedeno hits .240 like he did before with a lot of boneheaded plays and less than half the SBs. Cedeno may turn out to be a decent player but I don't think the Cubs can afford to let him play through his mistakes. If the Cubs were the Orioles, I'd probably prefer Cedeno for his long term possibilities. The Cubs have a 2 year window now and they need mistake free players.
By the way, the Cubs didn't trade Greene. They failed to sign him as a draft pick. He had an off year his junior year and figured he could go back into the draft and improve his stock. He was right.

They might get 2 pitchers, I don't think they will get 3.

Good call on greene crunchy, I should have said lost, not traded.

Cedeno has the defensive potential to out produce cedeno I believe, even if his numbers aren't as good. I do not want to hand anyone the job, I think they should compete for it. Cedenos plate discipline was horrendous, that would be the first thing he would need to improve. I don't think theriot did enough to just hand him the job though...and september is an awful month to become an automatic out...we are lucky sori, lee, and ramirez were on fire that month or theriot would be catching a whole lot more heat, and we might have lost the division. I do like his efficient base stealing though, that's a major plus

Patterson has way more upside than Cedeno. I have doubts Cedeno can be any more than a part-time utility player.

I'm still betting on Gallagher, Veal and Patterson if a deal gets done.