Cubs' Talks For Byrd Reach Impasse

I know this is not relevant (except for the 8 spot), but what do you think of this lineup?

theriot- hit .300 in the lead-off spot and led the team in SB last year.
lee- Great OBP and power may be in decline.
soto- Great OBP, (This is assuming he can put up numbers comparable to last year at AAA and his brief run last fall.)
ramirez- average, power, RBI's
fukudome- OBP, and Lefty to break up righties
soriano- Age and injuries are wearing on his SB's, Power, better numbers in 6 spot than 5.
derosa- Prototype 7 spot hitter
pie - Hoping for the best (good defense at least)

Soriano is going to lead off unless they get Roberts. I'm sick of reading fantasy projections otherwise. That's it.

As for trading Murton for Byrd, I think he's a great option off the bench. I'd hate to trade a guy like Murton when he adds great depth to the team. One of the things that makes the Red Sox so great (besides their SP's) is their overall depth. That's also why a Roberts trade would be so nice- to add a massive amount of depth with DeRosa.

Oops, bad grammar. "I think Murton's a great option off the bench."

Also, the Padres won't be trading Greene anytime soon.

He gives you a decent option if Felix Pie still doesn't pan out this year.

not only is matty a great option of the bench, i think he will be used fairly often. pineilla's been talking about the shortened japanese regular season and how fukudome is going to need a day off every once in a while. i think murton is as good as it gets coming off the bench as a 4th OF and could be a huge asset if (and when) soriano is hurting.

I agree with Baroid

It depends on the guys we have to give up. Priced right, Byrd as a back up. Priced high, not worth it.

I dont see how Texas picking up another ML ready OF would allow them to keep Botts or Cruz. If I had to guess Texas said no thanks to Murton because they don't need another OF and view him as negligible. I don't blame them. He doesnt have a ton of value for the Rangers despite the fact that he potentially could be a good ML hitter.

Listen guy, you can throw ideas around all you want, but it comes down to what Lou decides, and I don't know of any time he said Soriano would not lead off. And he hasn't said anything about Roberts (because that would be tampering), but it would only make sense to lead off with him.

Sorry if I offended you with my well-read and informed opinion, but welcome to the interwebs regardless.

Dan,
I agree it does come down to what Lou decides. Which is why it is ok to throw out ideas, because no one gives a crap what we say here. Yes, Lou has said he will bat him lead off but, how about a fresh perspective for discussion. You did not offend me at all, and I am proud of how well read and informed you are. Congrats!

Dan, It's OK. I am angry with us not winning a world series too!

Botts is going to go somewhere & hit 30/100 with a great OBP ala Cust. I just don't understand why Texas doesn't put him at DH & let him do it.

I have been searching rosters trying to find an alternative to trading for Byrd and I came up with a possible trading partner . Why not check out Jason Repko of LA . He has yet to put up great stats , but before his injury last year he was thought as a scrappy hustler .He's right handed and I believe he is 27 from East Chicago .Sounds like a low risk , low costing risk . Not sure what LA would want but they already have two CF .

hawkeye26, Repko was a very promising prospect at one time. If he is able to stay healthy he might be worth a flier. But he has had some serious injuries.

As a Cubs fan, I find the vast majority of Cubs fans don't know what they are talking about, unfortunately. Look, I realize Theriot became a fan favorite but he's not a legit starting shortstop on a contender. He took the fewest pitches of any infielder in baseball last year, had an OBP of .327 & had the lowest slugging %. And we don't need Byrd. Except for Fukudome, Hendry just doesn't get the importance of OBP. And we could use a 4th / 5th starter too.

I know, we could sign Corey Patterson to back up center! He could teach Pie how to be a bust. Than when Pie is doing bad, we can always turn to the worse player. It is a great idea! hahaha:)

Remember,
I agree, but Theriot was basically a rookie, let's give him a shot for now.

hello everybody,
see the problem is, soriano wouldn't drive in too many runs cuz he wouldnt be hitting the ball as much. And remember that he had not one, but two leg injuries last year, that hampered his speed.

And lee could hit 40 HRs this year, he hit 22 last year, of which 16 were in the second half. only 6 in the first half, now that he is healthy, his numbers will get up there. I think you can expect high 30's at the very least from Lee.

Soriano had a problem last year of wanting to hit the ball out as well to make up for not producing in other areas . I can tell the difference when he was just trying to make contact and when he was pressing . If he would stick to just making contact the guy could lead the league in doubles easily which would have been more valuable than hitting solo homers .

rememberthecoop, I agree with you on Theriot.

But I think someone(Piniella) has been in Hendry's ear about OBP. The Cubs are projected to have the second highest(behind Colorado) OBP in the NL this year.

glberns,
I agree on Lee about the 16 HR after the break. I just thought it would be fun to mention Soto as the 3 hitter. As for Fonzie,
I know he was injured but I think it isn't gonna get any better with him as far as speed. If I am wrong...awesome.

This cracks me up. This article was about Marlon Byrd and you dumbasses are talking about Johan and CC. Typical Cubs fans. Sometimes it really makes me laugh.

Have you guys watched Murton play OF? He struggles defensivly at LF, but some of you assume he can play CF? Wow.

Bryd may be a necessary acquisition if we move Cedeno to get Roberts. Even if that trade doesnt work out, Lou is still only calling Cedeno an infielder. He does not consider him an OF whatsoever.

I really believe in Pie, and I have enjoyed watching his shortened swing in practice this spring. That being said, I would feel a hell of a lot more comfy with a veteran CF who can play once or twice a week over some idea of putting Murton or Cedeno there.

And which ever one of you is suggesting that Soriano is still hurting, where in Gods name did you get that information? It wasnt from him, for sure. He feels great, and is excited to use his speed again this year after dealing with a couple of different leg injuries.

Oh, and I do not like him as a prototypical leadoff hitter, but he leads off only once again, in theory. I like him there a hell of a lot better than Theriot.

Sorry, I meant to say he leads off only once a game, not once again.

I'm SO TIRED of this trade idea. Offering Matt Murton for broken down Marlon Byrd is a joke. Why would you make that trade straight up? It's the Rangers that should be offering more.

Boy, Hendry sure keeps getting fleeced on trades in the past few years. It appears that after trading Clay Rapada, Rocky Cherry, and Scott Moore for nothing he hasn't learned anything.

I say again...GIVE THERIOT an outfielder's glove and see how he does out there in spring training. I'm positive he could handle center field. He's fast and is an excellent athlete.

If you traded for Roberts, you could also see how DeRosa played at shortstop. Sorry, this makes too much sense for some of you. Let the crying begin.

To me if the Rangers want to much Hendry should move on quickly .That's why I suggested Remko . He's not a veteran , but for what they need him for he would do fine if he has recovered from his injuries .

"Last year, he didn't run nearly as much, especially in the second half of the year with the leg problem," Piniella said. "You look at the year he put together for the Nationals, home run-wise and stolen base-wise and RBI-wise, and those were pretty good numbers out of the one hole. We'll keep talking about this and having a little fun with it, but we'll do the right thing, what's best for the baseball team and what's best for the players."

No , putting Theriot in center does make sense . I thought so myself , but with Lou set on having him at short there's really no point in wishing .To me ,Theriot would make a better super sub over Derosa .

Cub4life,
I'll bet you what's left of the value tickets for this season that Fonzie doesn't steal more than Theriot (assuming they both actually play all season, of course).

Derosa cant play SS regularily...fill in at best.

From what I saw Cintron can play 3b , ss , 2b but from what I saw of his stats , he should stay away from 3b .

Either way , no matter what happens , I think you won't be seeing Fontenot in the majors this year .Unless Cintron stinks up the place , Cintron will be taking Fontenot's spot on the 25 man roster .

That looks like what Lou would do Clarknaddison , but do ya think batting Pie behind Soto might slow down Pie down from stretching singles into doubles and doubles into triples ?

NOT saying my idea is better , but would Roberts ,Soriano ,Lee ,Ramirez ,Fukudome , Pie , Soto ,Theriot maximize the chance of Pie getting better pitches to hit and also have someone a little faster in front of him ?

So do you have any idea what the Cubs should do if Roberts isn't a Cub ? Do you still trade for a right handed cf?

ok...if not roberts...any suggestions for transactions? i know its a byrd post but lets talk a realistic addition. how about Greene and Maddux for Theriot, murton, Demp and marshall?? I think cedeno is an opt in cf. it would be interesting in spring training...

Fukudome signed because he could play right. He isn't playing cf.

Also, I was reading anarticle on the cubs website...do u know hendry was going to go after swisher if we didn't get fukudome?? It said he already had a package of young players put together...I thought that was interesting.

Clark-
Ok now I know I am a Brewers Fan, but I would like to think I know enough about the Cubs since I have basically watched or listened to every game on the radio since June of last year...

But Soriano would be a TERRIBLE #2 hitter...he would hurt Roberts who leads off in front of him and hurt the team by being in the 2 hole.

First he is a first pitch free swinger...not good to have one of those behind a 30+ SB guy like Roberts.
Two, he strikes out alot so if Roberts does steal 2nd base and Sori strikes out, then you just gave up a golden opportunity. Third he does not run as fast anymore which means it will be harder to beat out Double play grounders..

Also the talk of moving down Soriano so that he hits with people on base... Do you realize how many chances he had with Runners on from the #1 spot.. you guys actually had your bottom half get on at a decent rate last year and he very rarely came up big with men on... and only did hit the Solo Hrs to usually start off the game.

To me if Soriano gets moved out of the leadoff spot and you have roberts there... then Theriot is the PERFECT guy to "hide" in the #2 spot..

He takes enough pitches to give Roberts a chance to steal... does not strike out that often...usually makes decent contact(works for hit and runs). Can bunt and has plenty of speed to beat out a double play ball. Plus he would get a lot of great pitches with Lee after him and Roberts on base.

Best lineup for the Cubs
Roberts
Theriot
DLEE
Aram
Soriano
Fukudome
Soto
Pie

But thats just my opinion...

anyway I hope Soriano stays at leadoff... and you dont replace Pie or Theriot because those are your biggest holes... along with Fukudome and Soto production...

But hey Good Luck cant wait till March 31st with Sheets vs Zambrano in Wrigley

So Adun-
You are saying that a Guy who is 25 years old and only finally had his first good offensive year in the minors...in his THIRD year in Triple A to boot, will not be a question mark.

I agree that Kendall is a question mark...but what he does well is all that the Brewers need....they dont need Power from Kendall, they need the fact that he is one of the best Game Managers behind the plate(which is what most of the A's pitchers have said and Zito gave him a lot of credit for his success)..

Also Kendall was playing with Bad eyes...he had Lasik eye surgery in October and said that it makes a world of difference... You had to figure something was wrong you dont drop that far off in one year like he did..
2006-.290BA/.360OBP/ 30% Throw out rate

2007-.240BA/.309OBP/ 15% throw out rate

Hell the reason Kendall is on the Brewers is because Estrada was so bad at getting on Base last year and was awful as a Game Manager and actually had a worse throw out rate then kendall did...so Kendall is still an upgrade at his Worst.

Plus Kendall did have a .270/.350 2nd half with the Cubs last year and thats the line I am expecting for the Brewers this year.... with the Power and Offense the Brewers have in their lineup they just need a guy like Kendall to get on Base.

Soto has a good arm and decent defense the problem is a lot of the Cubs starters have no decent moves to keep runners at bay... I think Soto only throws out around 22% this year... and I think you will see Kendall throw out around that as well.

I am sure the eye problems threw off his aim a little bit as well....like I said consistant guys like Kendall do not fall that far off the bus that fast..

So Kendall has Lasik eye surgery. Tim, add Kendall to the "Vision Improvement" section of the "Spring Training Cliches"! He'll be primed for a comeback just like Mark Hendrickson!

So is this the same translation from Triple A to the Majors that has made Pie, Murton, and Cedeno so good at the Majors when they rake in the Minors?

Oh wait I know Soto had a Great 54 ABs in the Majors last year right? Oh wait didn't Fontenot have a Month and a Half stretch(65 ABs) where he was a .400 Batting Average guy...how did that turn out.

Oh and look at Soto's "power"
2001-150Abs/ 1 HR .260/.327
2002-161ABs/ 3 HR .273/.328
2003-297ABs/ 2 HR .242/.314
2004-332ABs/ 9 HR .271/.349
2005-292ABs/ 4 HR .253/.357
2006-342ABs/ 6 HR .272/.353
2007-385ABs/26 HR .353/.424

Soto has only had a batting average OVER .275 one time..
Only had an OBP over .350 3 times(all in Triple A which is where a lot AAAA pitchers are)

And had more HRs in 2007 than his Minor league career combined

Oh and in his Minor League career only had an OPS of over .750 ONE time.

You do realize that Most of the good pitchers stay in Triple A about 2 months at the Longest... he did that against wanna-be Pitchers.

He is STILL a question mark

He does have decent Defense but that does not give him a chance in hell to throw out a runner when in Hill, Marquis, Dumpster, and Marshall are on the mound..

Soto will give you .265BA/.320OBP/16Hrs
Which will be an OPS of about .730

Adun-
He did wear contact lenses last year but lasik eye surgery gets the eyes very close to perfect vision where as Contacts do not.

I did not say that Kendall would be GOOD... he will be better and if he gives us what he gave the Cubs in the 2nd half then thats all I care about....270/.350

Plus his value is still and always will be his Game Managment with the Pitchers...one of the Best in the game at that.

and having a guy that can beat out double plays and get On Base instead of Estrada will easily give the Offense a much needed boost...and who cares about Power when the Brewers have 7 guys in the Lineup that can hit 20+ HomeRuns....
Oh and 4 guys that can steal 20+ bases

Relax, erbacaine. We all get excited around spring training time. Hell, I quit smoking and I'm in the best shape of my life!

Sorry, I don't buy the eye surgery thing. I agree with your lineup, however...

FukudomeJr-
Its cool I actually love messing with Cub fans you guys are very passionate about your team so its fun when you say even the slightest thing about holes or question marks with your team and you get the fans "What We have no holes....Blah blah blah"

I just feel that Soto is a question mark, STILL an upgrade from last year, but a question mark all the same...

Same with Fukudome... I think his OBP will mostly translate probably a .370 OBP... but I think his power takes a big dive like Hideki's did when he came to the Majors..
.280 BA/15 HRs/.370 OBP

But your main holes are Theriot and Pie there offense needs to be better for you guys...

Actually all Theriot needs to do is not even raise the batting average but actually become a .350 OBP guy then that REALLY helps your team out

Pie needs to do everything better on Offense.

anyway it will be fun a year...Brewers just need to keep it close the first 25 games while Yovanni is out the first 2 weeks and while Cameron is Suspended.

Erbacaine, if I am not mistaken, it wasnt the Cubs that had the rug tore out from underneath them last year, it was the Brewers.

I am aware that 54 AB's does not make a season, or a career for that matter. The kid turned a major corner last year. The Brewers have a handful of players that produced in the minors and it stretched to the majors too. I guess that's acceptable, but for him to do it isnt?

The fact of the matter is, you would rather have him in your Brewer lineup than the 2 trash heaps you currently have. Thank you again for accepting Cubs fans passion, now I will be more than happy to accept your envy.

Good luck.

Not the right forum, and I apologize. I just got word from a very good source that the Roberts trade will most likely happen 2 weeks into ST if it is going to happen at all. Gallagher, Cedeno, Murton and Veal are rumored on the Cubs side.

Too much if you ask me. (Which they arent, but I like to throw that out there!!)

Awe, you look so cute getting all fired up. A couple things that do or dont matter. 1) I can give 2 shiits if you beat us out at every position, except the standings. Dumbass! 2)Don't hate on the payroll, you go right back to my point about "envy". 3)Is this a football or basketball thread? Nope. 4)Great job being proud of an organization that continues to produce All-Stars for other teams. Must feel great!

I agree that theriot is a hole offensively, unless u look at his season minus sept, where he fell off the planet. He is fine on defense though. Same with pie, u are right about offense, he sucked. However he is going to be playing crazy good defense and really only needs to be hitting like .250 to be veryu valuable to us. I think Soto is our answer, and my favorite cubs prospect to come up since hill, who I was mocked for loving this time last year. But we are a very good defensive team with good pitching and our offense will be good without roberts, and great with him! We are sound all around, while the brewers will be below average defensively, with an average at best rotation and absolute crap for a bullpen. Its about more than just an offense, which is why our all around team is better.

Theriot is not a good defender he is AVERAGE at best...

Derosa and Roberts both are the same at Defense...slightly above average..

ARAM-while he got better over the years on Defense his range is still not good.

Soriano- has a Great arm, but he is brutal at reading the flight of the ball, and with his leg may not have the range he had for most of the year last year.

Pie and Fukudome both will be very good out there..

Cameron is a GG Cfer coming from the huge park in PETCO to a smaller park in Miller...

Hart has very good range and a gun for an arm

Braun will make mistakes, but he is very fast should have decent range and also has a very good arm(plus Robin Yount will be workign with him during ST)

Hall- is average to slightly above average range at 3rd and has a good arm..he is a HUGE upgrade over Braun who was historically bad

JJ hardy- was always a plus defender in the Minors and his first 2 years in the Majors, had some problems last year(might have been the back that was bugging him..I dont know)

Weeks- His glove has gotten better every year and has good range...just still throws the ball away at times when he hurrys

Fielder- Most of his errors came on throws to 2nd... he does not have the arm length that Lee has to be able to scoop bad throws, but he is still an average defender

kendall- is still an improvement over Estrada and thats all that matters

Hall is average in his best dreams, he won't sniff above average defense. Soriano's leg will be just fine, and won't affect his range. All three of for the cubs have range and cannons. Look at ramirez' defensive stats last year...they were gg type of stats. Feliz was the only one better. Lee is lee, enough said. His range is obviously better, all u have to do is look at them to figure that out. Roberts is bettere than derosa, which would be awesome. I never said theriot was good, I said he was fine, id like to have better, someone with the range and cannon that ronny cedeno has would be nice...