Schilling Has Serious Shoulder Injury

6:51pm: Schilling has opted for rehab rather than surgery, as decided by a third party doctor.  Boston's doctor advised rehab, while one of Schilling's advised surgery.  It's a partial rotator cuff tear, and it'll keep Schilling out until at least the All-Star break.

1:05pm: According to the Boston Herald, Curt Schilling has a possibly season-ending shoulder injury (perhaps a torn rotator cuff or labrum).  Schilling's career in general seems in jeopardy, in my opinion.

The Herald report says the Red Sox have already explored whether they can void Schilling's $8MM contract.  That's created a conflict with the team and Schilling, and they're also at odds over him needing surgery.  It's unknown whether the Red Sox missed the injury in his physical (seems unlikely) or if it happened since then.

With Beckett, Matsuzaka, Lester, Wakefield, and Buchholz, the Red Sox do have the depth to sustain this injury.  But a solid sixth man other than Julian Tavarez would be nice.  I don't see the free agent market offering much in terms of a mid-rotation addition.

Comments

[peterherman]

Well, NOW I wish the Sox had gotten more aggressive on the Santana front.

[fitz]

PLEASE do not panic and sign Lohse unless he'll take a 1 year deal.

[peterherman]

I wouldn't worry too much about Lohse coming up here to play "arena baseball".

[FineHamAbounds]

Eh, Schilling's had a good career, but he's not nearly what he once was. The Sox aren't faced with a giant setback here.

And, no. Lohse won't be in the AL if he can help it, but maybe the idea of pitching for a playoff team and a possible ring would sweetend the deal for him?

[Papelboner]

Yeah, I don't think Theo is going to panic here. They'll probably just go with what they have, unless Schill is going to be out for the year. But there really isn't much out there unless you consider Roger*. Maybe Blanton? We've got the prospects and Coco has interested Billy Beane in the past, so we've got some pieces (Lowrie, Masterson, Coco, Bowden, etc.) to put together an offer. While I'm not a huge Blanton fan (esp. in the AL East), I can't see him being much worse than what Schill would've been able to give us. Actually, he'd probably be a better bet, esp. as a workhorse 3/4 type.

[WestCoastBias]

Joe Blanton for Jacoby Ellsbury & Jed Lowrie?

[erbacaine]

Come on red sox... Chris Cappuano, Dave Bush, and Claudio Vargas... you can have anyone of them... just give us maybe a prospect or 2...a nice catching prospect. Thats it...

[peterherman]

Papelboner--

I was thinking something similar. Crisp and a decent prospect for Blanton would be fine by me. I'd hate to see Buchholz get rushed.

[erbacaine]

Blanton was terrible outside of the HUGE park in oakland... the last 2 years he had a 5.11 ERA and 5.12 ERa on the Road in 16 starts each year...

[ksesxe]

"Joe Blanton for Jacoby Ellsbury & Jed Lowrie?"

You are out of your mind for even suggesting that.

Lowrie & Coco could work. Maybe a third.

[erbacaine]

By the way cant wait to see Fenway Park...I am making the trip over to Boston to see the May 17th and 18th Brewer-sox games..

[zito4cyyoung]

Jonathon Sanchez for Jed Lowrie

[Aduncaroo]

They would be dumb not to take vargas out of that group. The others would get crushed in two innings...

[Sqweeek]

The Red Sox aren't going after Blanton. How about a more reasonable trade:

Jason Marquis and Matt Murton for Coco Crisp?

[gfulla]

I definitely would rather start Tavarez a bit than trade away Lowrie (much less Ellsbury) for Blanton. I'm not saying Tavarez>Blanton obviously; just that I don't want to see Lowrie involved in a trade unless it's for someone better than Blanton. Blanton may fit immediate needs, but I think we'd be on the wrong side of any deal for him, ESPECIALLY if it was made in response to this revelation.

Besides I like Lowrie's head. I think he stands a good chance of pacifying some of his detractors this year. In other words i mean I'd rather take my chances with him.

[Lockie]

I was convinced he was headed for a poor year anyway.

Not surprised he's trying to get $8 million for nothing. I'm only surprised he hasn't been attention seeking about it. Yet.

[touchmymonkey]

Perhaps Livian Hernandez takes 1 yr to play for a contender?

[millenniumphalcon]

Beckett
Dice-K
Lester
Wakefield
Buchholz

vs.

Wang
Pettitte
Hughes
Joba
Mussina/Kennedy

Without Schilling I think the Yankees and Red Sox rotations are almost consistently matched. I highly doubt that Beckett will reproduce his 2007 stats. Wang may not be a true #1, but he has proven himself to be consistent.

Dice-K will probably improve some in 2008., but last year he and Pettitte were pretty even.

I highly doubt Wakefield will reproduce his 2007 numbers either. I would take Hughes, Joba, and Moose over Wakefield, Clay Bucholz, and Lester.

[joemorgan=#1]

How fun will it be to watch these rotations
lester vs hughes
joba vs bucholtz
it's going to be fun to see what these guys can do over full seasons.

[walkoffblast]

"I highly doubt Wakefield will reproduce his 2007 numbers either."

Care to at least provide some reasoning for a comment that appears to have no basis other than opinion. You can keep measuring rotations by projecting bottom 3 and keep being wrong. Stop pretending your wishful thinking is fact.

"it's going to be fun to see what these guys can do over full seasons."

Agreed, but that is at least a year away and this fact is going to hurt the yankees much worse down the stretch than the Red Sox.

[Ryan]

Wakefield is old as dirt and injury prone. That is a reason to think he won't put up his 2007 numbers.

[JakeOD21]

I don't think there's any reason for the Red Sox FO to panic if Schilling's shoulder prevents him from pitching again. They have internal options at the moment, if everyone else is healthy I think it might be beneficial to use Tavarez in the rotation in April and May and keep Buchholz in Pawtucket to keep his innings down a la Lester last season. They can take a flier on someone like Freddy Garcia or Josh Fogg as insurance in spring training, but I really think they could solve this internally.

Wakefield is a big "if" for this season but from everything I've heard he's fully recovered from his own shoulder woes from the end of last season. I'd hate to see them deal for Blanton or sign Kyle Lohse, I just don't think its necessary. Hell, I'd rather see them bring up Justin Masterson than see either of those guys in the Sox rotation.

[millenniumphalcon]

It's highly unlikely Wakefield will make it through 2008 uninjured. I'm not saying he won't be a decent starter, but he's unlikely to to win 17 games again.

Beckett had a great year last year, and I personally think he should have won the Cy Young over CC. However, to say he will reproduce those numbers agin in 2008 is unrealistic. I think he'll have a very good year, but not another Cy Young worthy year.

[Santana/Beckett FTW]

WHOA WHOA WHOA! lets put a stop to this talk right here right now. wang is no beckett for starters. Wang may put up good numbers but he does not dominate a game the way beckett does. Becketts a competitor. the fact he lost the cy young is going to make him even better. hes first reaching his prime now! so all this "he won't produce the same numbers" talk can be laid to rest. Second off we are talking about the world series mvp with the marlins and the rightful cy young winner for last season. every single espn analyst said the same thing. no one could believe CC got it. dice-k has the potential to be a cy young candidate. thats why the red sox paid what they did for him. dont be surprised to see a 3.00 era and 220+ k's. pettite meanwhile is on the back 9 of his career and probably will get injured at some point next season. edge again to the red sox. lester and hughes i agree are similar caliber pitchers. both posted similar numbers last season in shortened seasons. joba has proven NOTHING as a starter in 24 innings as a releiver pitching one inning every two days. we'll see how he does as a starter but the man hes against bucholz threw a no hitter! gotta give bucholz the respect he deserves and the edge in this comparison. and i would happily take tim wakefield for one more year over an ian kennedy or a kei igawa or a mike mussina.
This schilling business is not a huge loss but i'm upset that the sox are handling it the way they are.

[Ryan]

I don't think it will be a serious issue for Boston unless Tavarez is not able to be a suitable spot starter to keep Buchholz and possibly Lester under their innings caps.

[Devlsh]

Look, I don't have a dog in this fight but the loss of Schilling makes the Red Sox rotation vulnerable. To rely on two young hurlers with little track record and an aging Wakefield who's had shoulder issues is anything but a sure thing. And if Tavarez is the answer in terms of depth, someone needs to ask a different question.

Neither the Red Sox or the Yankees appear to have dominant pitching which, given their payrolls, is pretty surprising.

[bobo]

Anyone who thinks Beckett deserved the Cy Young award last year is a fool.

You're aware that postseason numbers don't count, right?

Sabathia was as good or better in just about every meaningful pitching category you can think of, and he threw 40 MORE INNINGS.

Please, please, please - provide some justification for Beckett winning the award.

This is as cut and dry as picking the tallest basketball player, or the player with the most homeruns, or deciding which number is larger - 13 or 11.

Santana/Beckett FTW - this is directed mostly at you, but anyone's welcome to reply.

[bobo]

Anyway - to stay on topic, you've now got only 5 viable roation candidates.

How do you limit the kids' innings now?

[Jack]

If the new rotation doesn't work I know of a pitcher who is known for pitching half to three quarters of a year. He may also be willing to work for cheap to clear his name. Not to name names ogerra lemensca

[millenniumphalcon]

I wasn't trying to bash Beckett in any way. I think he's a great pitcher, probably one of the best in baseball (especially after those playoff starts). My main point was that the Yankees and Red Sox each now have certifiable aces (Beckett and Wang), very good number twos (Dice-K and Pettitte), aging and possibly/probably unreliable veterans (Wakefield and Mussina), and two unproven kids(Buchholz/Lester and Hughes/Joba).

[walkoffblast]

Even most reasonable Red Sox fans, myself included agree Sabathia was the right choice. Just throwing that out there so he does not take the whole fanbase down with him.

I think your toughest sell is that you keep calling Wang an ace or a #1. He is a good pitcher but that is overkill. Everyone go ahead and keep selling Wakefield short. This is not like an aging fireballer. The knuckleball creates a unique situation. I do not see why he is a given to have a significant injury. It is possible obviously but you guys are taking it over the top.

Yes the Schilling thing is a setback but people are acting like every team is 7+ deep in above average pitching which is ridiculous considering that no teams are like that.

[04Forever]

well bobo, to answer your second question, i think the yankees are going to have the same problem.

This really isnt a large problem for the sox though like it is for the yankees. Lester has major league experience, but his numbers suffered because of his cancer, now that he had time to recover and practice, he wont be a problem and hes not a rookie. Bucholz is going to be the tough one, but his concerns are way down now that he has gone on a very strict diet, he is getting some muscle, hes about 200 pounds now, up from about 180, so hes getting some power build up

http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080115&content_id=2346661&vkey=news_bos&fext=.jsp&c_id=bos

As long as wakefield doesnt get hurt, innings shouldnt be a huge concern yet. besides we are jumping the gun, we arent really sure to the extent of schillings injury.

We also have Tavarez, whos rubber arm got us out of alot of jams last year. If matters really deteriorate, then we could use devern hansack or maybe david pauley to fill in the blanks, we did that in 06 with some positive results.

Theres not problems yet, lets getting to spring training before we predict the end of the world

[Santana/Beckett FTW]

Justify?... i don't need to. but since u ask

More wins
Less home runs given up
basically same era
basically same bb/k per 9
yes sabathia had 40 more innings. beckett also missed two starts with a finger injury.
bottom line is 20 wins = cy young. many pitchers (such as mike mussina) will never be considered anything better than decent because they never had a 20 win season. look in previous years tho and compare lines. almost always goes to person with most wins. Also sabathia had a much easier division last season than beckett did which = lower ERA and should = more wins. red sox and yankees met (19?) times last season. sabathias competitors was the white sox, tigers and twins. and both last year were pathetic. read up on your pitchers and you'll see what i'm talking about. based on ERA and strikeouts there were many pitchers in the same range. bedard, santana and lackey to name 3.

giving the cy young to sabathia is like giving the MVP to Magglio instead of ARod last year because he had a higher batting avg., but couldn't carry his team to victory.

[04Forever]

besides, the red sox were ready for life without him since he wanted to retire last year, but decided he wanted to pitch, so theo will just have to pretend he retired now, if hi injuries are year/career ending

[Ryan]

Santana/Beckett FTW,

So basically everything that can go right for Boston will and everything that can go wrong for the Yankees will? Give me a break.

[04Forever]

The yankees certainly have alot to adjust to this year, anyone who doesnt think new management from the manger up to the president, except for cashman, isnt going to affect performance of the team, is dreaming. Joe Giradi is a great guy and did win manager of the year, but we have to remember is was with a losing team.

nevermind next year in the new stadium.

[metafrantic]

"Dice-K will probably improve some in 2008., but last year he and Pettitte were pretty even."

Say what?

Matsuzaka: 204.2 IP, 201 SO, 4.40 ERA, 2.51 K/BB, 8.84 K/9, 1.32 WHIP, .246 BAA
Pettitte : 215.1 IP, 141 SO, 4.05 ERA, 2.04 K/BB, 5.89 K/9, 1.43 WHIP, .286 BAA

Pettitte had a better ERA, but otherwise Matsuzaka outperformed him in every possible way. And that was despite having to deal with culture shock, not speaking the language, etc. Pettitte had a better record (15-9 to 15-12), but he also got an entire run more of run support per start (6.77 to 5.72).

Not to mention Pettitte will be 36 in June; Matsuzaka just turned 27 in September.

[Santana/Beckett FTW]

and back on topic, i dont think that lesters innings are a concern. i think they are willing to let him go 7-8 innings per start if he proves he can stay in that long. Bucholz is bulking up and is eager to get in the rotation from all the interviews i've read. i don't think they are gonna have any joba rules type deal for him where they want him pitching every other start. however they may pull him after 6 in some starts where perhaps he could go further. I think bucholz is bulking up for that reason. i think he's ready and wants to go strong this year. I would project 150-180 innings at seasons end for him.

[Santana/Beckett FTW]

nothing needs to go wrong for the yanks. they have no depth. pettite or wang goes down and i would say their season is over. pettites 36 with shoulder and back problems

[Santana/Beckett FTW]

red sox already had pretty much worst thing that was projected to happen happen. i'd rather schilling go down now then midseason and readjust the whole rotation.

[millenniumphalcon]

Santana/Beckett FTW:
And what happens now if Beckett or Dice-K goes down midseason? Would you really want Tavarez in your rotation when you're fighting for a playoff spot? Realistically speaking, you cannot now say that the Red Sox have more pitching depth than the Yankees do if someone gets hurt. If either one suffers a midseason starter injury, they will be in trouble.

[millenniumphalcon]

As for Wang and Pettitte, Wang did miss a few starts at the beginning of last season. The Yankees had to platoon about a dozen rookies, but they survived.

metafrantic:
Looking at Pettitte's stat line really isn't fair. He was victimized by the bullpen in several low-scoring games in april and ended up with no-decisions. If the offence and bullpen had pulled through for him, he could have had 10 wins.

[04Forever]

realistically speaking, they both probably will run into problems, someone is bound to hit the DL eventually. i hope the jays or the rays dont get there act together, they could makes this interesting...

[Santana/Beckett FTW]

diss tavarez all you want. when it came down to it, the man got the job done. and he was called upon quite often. usually he let up 2-3 runs in 5.5-6.5 innings pitched, which keeps us in the game long enough for okajima/papelbon to close the deal. which is more than anyone can say about any of the yankees 5th men (kennedy igawa mussina). it was very rare to see him have a game where he let up 5+ runs and got blown out of the water the way mussina and kennedy did at times last season. but when it comes down to it I would call up a craig hansen and have him and tavarez split the 5 spot. let tavarez start (hes almost always great till the 3rd-4th inning). then bring in hansen in the 4th or 5th and get to the bullpen to finish the job. the sox have a much more potent and healthier offense this season with ellsbury in the lineup and pedroia and youkilis with a full mlb season under their belts. if drew regains form i would call it in the top 3 best offenses in the AL with the tigers and of course the yankees.

[millenniumphalcon]

I personally hope the Rays do well. I could envision them actually finishing in third this year. If they played in the NL Central, they'd be fighting for a wild card spot for sure.

[Santana/Beckett FTW]

and falcon, that fact about pettite is very true. but that doesn't effect his ERA/whip/k's per 9 or bb per 9.

[Santana/Beckett FTW]

the rays are not finishing above 4th unless you think the yankees will. the blue jays will be a tough match for the second place spot whether it be the yanks or sox fighting for it. one of them will get 3rd. rays 4th next year, orioles 5th.

[walkoffblast]

I doubt the Rays finish better than 4th this year but they could start making things interesting next year.

Wins are not a great measure of pitcher quality. I would think people understood this by now.

[Ryan]

I can't take the amount of Red Sox homerism that is going on right now. Its too much. Some of these comments are down right stupid.

[metafrantic]

millenniumphalcon, I have no idea what you're talking about. First of all, both Pettitte AND Matsuzaka won 15 games, so what do you mean by "...he could have had 10 wins"?

Second, what the bullpen does after Pettitte leaves the game doesn't effect ANY of the numbers I mentioned... EXCEPT for ERA, the one thing Pettitte was better in. Looking at the stats I mentioned is completely fair.

[millenniumphalcon]

metafrantic:
My apologies, I meant to say 18, not 10.

walkoffblast:
I'm aware that wins don't mean as much as they used to. I'm definately turning into a stat junkie. However, I believe that there are different types of ptchers. I don't think Chien-Ming Wang should be judged as much by his K/BB or K/9 ratios, because he is not a strike pitcher. He's strictly a ground-ball pitcher, and he is very effective at it. When someone invents a stat system that factors in the type of pitchers, send him/her my way.

[millenniumphalcon]

And getting back to Pettitte, he's also not a strikeout pitcher. He gives up a lot of hits, and is very much a contact pitcher. However, he's still extremely effective pitching the way he does, and always has been.

[millenniumphalcon]

Anyways, I never intended to make this a Beckett vs. Wang debate, or a Dice-K vs. Pettitte debate. My original point was that both the Yankees and Red Sox are going to have to put a lot of faith in their unproven youngsters this season. No matter what anyone says, Lester is still unproven. I agree Buchholz's no-hitter was incredible, but he is still unproven. Hughes is unproven. Joba is unproven. I don't think this point can be argues with.

[hmmmmm]

As a Twins fan all have to say about this is....ha ha

[metafrantic]

millenniumphalcon,

Okay, fine, but that still doesn't prove anything because the same arguement can be made for Matsuzaka. Dice-K had 5 starts where he gave up 3 runs or fewer in 5 innings or more and still got the loss. He had another where he got a no-decision. Almost ALL pitchers have outings like that over a full season.

[Santana/Beckett FTW]

Bottom line is while beckett and dice-k are projected to get better. wang is going to stay steady and pettites only going downhill from here. the reason the yankees signed pettite is for his experience. he is there more to help the young pitchers than return to his old form. Pettite is a HUGE injury risk. he's had what like 5 drastically shortened seasons 1 of which he really didn't pitch many innings (astros). the yanks if he goes down literally have no one to take that 2 spot in the rotation. even if joba ends up being amazing (which i think he will not do nearly as well his first year as a starter), they dont want him at number 2 being expected to throw 180-200+ innings

[04Forever]

the sox are probably pissed that the doctors passing him in his physical now, theres no way a torn rotator cuff should be missed, certainly when he was having shoulder problems during the year and at his age. i bet the sox are trying to find a way to weasel out of this deal, and imagine, this man had the NERVE to almost walk after we didnt want to cough up a 13million dollar deal, this is EXACTLY why theo is a genius

[Santana/Beckett FTW]

i agree 100% 04forever. theo epstein is the best thing to happen to the red sox organization, maybe in the history of the franchise. he treats his players very well and has strung together multiple good years in a row. cant count 06 because that was an injury ridden season. pitchers that are in their 40s are going to have to learn (clemens, johnson, schilling) that they are not worth the same now that they were at 28-35. clemens got his biggest contract of his career for a half season last year. get the hell out of here. right now i project that the sox will win at least the AL '08 and '09. if the yanks pick up Sabathia as i believe they will next off-season, that might help them. I dont even see the tigers or indians with a real strong chance against the depth of the sox. both have strong teams but not as deep as having JD drew or coco crisp as your backup outfielder, allowing manny to rest often. this is why manny is still in a red sox uniform. as much as he has bitched (besides this offseason where he "Loves boston"), no team would have the depth to give him a deal where he can have every 4th or 5th day off.

[ballyb11]

Not a giant setback here.

It's easy to replace 3.87 ERA / 1.25 WHIP and 150 innings.

Ha, ha, ha, ha.

[04Forever]

ballyb11, curt was going to retire, we were going to have to replace him eventually, will just have to do it sooner. it really is a minor setback, and it happened before the beginning of the season, we have 2 months to properly fill the hole. Atleast schilling was honest and fessed up he wouldnt be able to cut it during the start off the season.

[basemonkey]

It's not an easy thing to replace a mid-3.00 ERA and 150 IP. At the going rate you have to pay better than what carlos Silva got. And, a pitcher who would have posted 3.50 ERAs for that many innings would have been the high man in the Free Agent market. Typical passive Boston arrogance.

This is a serious concern for Schilling lovers. Rotator cuff or torn labrums at Schill's age is a pretty sizable career-ender. Schilling was just beginning to talk about retiring anyways. In a way if this does end the career, it would have been better for the BoSox if Schill just announced retirement a lot earlier. That being said, Boston has plenty of good pitching rotation depth to absorb this.

[minnesotawins]

is that bedard deal final with seattle yet?

[bjsguess]

I feel somewhat vindicated. The Red Sox and Yankees will both regret not going after Santana.

Red Sox:
Beckett - Cy Young type year in 07, over a 5.00 ERA in 06.
Dice-K - Mid 4's ERA - should improve but how much?
Wakefield - Major injury risk at his age - he's just not that good of a pitcher.
Buchholz - A few career starts under his belt.
Lester - 26gs - 4.61era - has never thrown more than 160 innings.

Yankees:
Wang - solid mid to high 3's ERA - good 2nd pitcher on most teams
Pettite - about the same ERA as John Garland over the past 2 years
Hughes - 13 ml starts - 72 ml ip - 4.46era
Chamberlain - 0 ml starts - 24ip
Mussina - 5+ era in 07
Kennedy - 3 ml starts - 19 ml ip

Both teams have tremendous financial resources and could have easily absorbed Johan's $20m+ contract. Both teams have huge payrolls and MAJOR questions in their rotations. I would bet my house that at least one starter will fail miserably from both teams. That's not to say that the young guys won't pan out eventually. It's just asking a whole heck of a lot for ALL of them to pan out IMMEDIATELY.

[grandmasterb]

How about this scenario Sox fans......Coco Crisp and say Jed Lowrie(insert some other Sox prospect if you wish) to the Twins for J. Nathan. C. Gomez is not ready to be the Twins everyday CF'er, so Coco is still a fit. Lowrie could become their everyday SS. The Sox could put Nathan into the Closers role and insert Papelbon into the rotation(like he was suppose to last year). I don't think this is to far fetched. Thoughts?

[quintjs]

No one expected Wakefield to win 17games in 2007 either.

Tavarez was getting his starting stamina up in April (plus going 2 weeks without starting)
In May and June as a starter, Tavarez had an ERA under 4, and this against good hitting teams, and aces no less.

Tavarez isn't a joke as a starter.

on Schilling, a half season would probably actually be a good thing for him and the Sox if he can get healthy, and the Sox still win games, mid season addition.

[gfulla]

"How about this scenario Sox fans......Coco Crisp and say Jed Lowrie(insert some other Sox prospect if you wish) to the Twins for J. Nathan. C. Gomez is not ready to be the Twins everyday CF'er, so Coco is still a fit. Lowrie could become their everyday SS. The Sox could put Nathan into the Closers role and insert Papelbon into the rotation(like he was suppose to last year). I don't think this is to far fetched. Thoughts?"

Honestly, the thought of Pap even becoming a starter again had completely left my mind. I really don't think it's worth it though. He's been dominant at his current role. He also isn't actually NEEDED right now, the Sox are just a bit short on depth with Schilling out.

"Tavarez isn't a joke as a starter."

It drives me nuts that everyone acts like Tavarez as a sixth starter is a death sentence. Do they forget that the Red Sox had less runs allowed last year than anyone else in the majors WITH Tavarez starting 23 games?

[04Forever]

can somebody please tell me if anything DOESNT make red sox fans arrogant? almost every person says were arrogant for pretty much everything. it seriously is pathetic that the number one argument to repel red sox fans is how arrogant we are.

"Early in life, I had to choose between honest arrogance and hypocritical humility. I chose honest arrogance and have seen no occasions to change." - Frank Lloyd Wright

so once again, you can file this under the chapter of "stuff happens", if this happened to Beckett or even Matsuzaka, because of his strikeout numbers and age, this would be extremely damaging to the team, almost a sure way to make it hard to compete. But its not, it happened to a guy that was supposed to retire anyway, what are you going to do, cry about it? The problem will be fixed by appropriate means, they wont be as good as schilling itself, but they will be good enough to fill in the blanks. Red Sox will find a way to avert disaster on this one because of the timing, if thats arrogant, then shot me i guess.

grandmasterb
no....just no. How does that solve our problem by taking Papelbon, who is the most dominant closer in the mlb right now and make him a starter? That makes things worse because your giving up a sure thing for a not sure thing. Besides, why should we give you crisp and especially lowrie (and you even consider a third guy?) for a guy that hates you, and for a position thats filled, with authority? That deal helps your needs 10 times more then it would help ours, and theo doesnt like that.

Realistically, this problem will be fixed with an internal solution, it might be a triple A starter like hansack if schilling goes down for the year, or it will be tavarez if schilling will come back mid season, its really just to early to tell. we could also try to shop crisp for a 4th or 5th starter, but like i said, this is REAL early, we have a month before pressure forces us to make a decision.

[grandmasterb]

No 04Forever, I was proposing the idea of another prospect besides Lowrie not adding one to the deal. And how is Nathan not a sure thing exactly? He has been one of the best closers in the game over the last 4 seasons. It will take much less to get a top closer(Nathan is a top 4 closer in MLB) than it would to get a top flight starter, which Papelbon has the ability to become. His numbers are almost identical to Paps last year. And where does this "for a guy that hates you" come from? Nathan hates the Red Sox? I have never seen that before. And by the way, I'm a Red Sox fan from CT so I'm thinking about this from the Sox point of view.

[vandyjeff]

the sox shouldn't give up a top-10 prospect to acquire a 6th starter (7th if schill can return). rather than package coco with lowrie, etc., why not shop him to a team like the braves for one of their excess SPs. Wren claims they'll be sending three MLB-level SPs to AAA. Coco for Chuck James or JoJo Reyes?

[yankfan1]

This is great news as a Yankee fan. I eally do believe our starting rotation is alot similer to the Red Sox. Still, the thing that's going to kill th Yankees is the bullpen. Who agrees with me to make Joba a setup man. When Joba went in to the bullpen 8,9 was locked. Yankees would make a huge mistake if they walk awy from what could be a great 8,9 punch.

[yankfan1]

By the way Bucholtz is going to start the season and take schillings place.

[mac_1103]

"Hughes - 13 ml starts - 72 ml ip - 4.46era"

As a 21 year old. Johan Santana at age 21 -- 5 MLB starts; 86 IP; 6.49 ERA.

Why is it so hard to believe that young guys with excellent college and/or minor league track records -- you know, guys like Hughes and Buchholz and Chamberlain -- could actually turn out to be good? After all, future aces have to start somewhere. And why is it so hard to believe that teams that can score runs like the Yankees and Red Sox don't need their fourth and fifth startes to be Cy Young candidates to win 90+ games?

[mac_1103]

"Who agrees with me to make Joba a setup man."

Mike Celizic. Which pretty much proves that it's a terrible idea.