Cubs-Orioles Roberts Talks Getting Serious

i like that Aduncaroo

I have been posting the O's will more than likely go 3 for Roberts or 4 for Roberts ever since Bedard was delt. The O's have roster spot issues. Gallagher and whomever (Cedeno maybe) and 1-2 non roster guys I would think. If I were to bet, Veal is one of those guys.

Ceda/Veal/Marshall/Cedeno
FOR
Roberts/Sherrill

We could add Marquis for Payton

Where is darkstar to shoot it all down? Sshh. Must be taking a nap.

Playwright, if the O's have roster trouble than a smaller deal might be better -- and a smaller deal would mean a better prospect, I would think. To me, Ceda makes sense in this scenario. I pointed out earlier that the Cubs actually have a surplus of huge, hard-throwing right handed relievers. With Lahey, Smardzija and Petrick all looking impressive, you can probably afford to give up Ceda. And something must have happened to kick start this deal...meaning Hendry may have given in on his reluctance to include Ceda. It may be something like Gallagher, Ceda, Cedeno for Roberts. I would think even most O's fans would be satisfied with that return.

I was reading a few posts listing their thoughts on the new lineups with Roberts and Crisp. Not sure if I believe that Crisp would bat 2nd. That is why I am not sure that he is an upgrade at all over Pie.

Roberts
Soriano
Fukudome
Lee
Ramirez
Soto
Crisp
Theriot

Again, why would the O's want Marquis? They're rebuilding. So pick up a pitcher with 16 mill left on his contract? Personally, I don't think he sucks as much as everyone wants him to but the O's wouldn't want him. They're trying to dump MORE salary by throwing Payton in there.

coryaj20

I'm not sure Hendry is going to give Gallagher, Ceda, and Veal up. Maybe if you are lucky you get

Gallagher
Ceda
Cedeno\Patterson
Murton

for

Roberts
Payton

I dont think we are giving up Ceda/Veal/Gallagher in the same deal for Roberts. And payton prolly has negative value for you. The only way we give you those 3 is if Sherrill is in the deal. And you must know MacPhail because you say "sherrill will NOT leave baltimore". CORYAJ I wish I had your inside information.

I would give up Ceda/Veal (or Gallagher) and one of Patterson/Cedeno. But that is my guess. I dont know Hendry or MacPhail personally. In fact, Maybe this is Andy MacPhail. Can you tell us more inside informtion?

HA How about this.

Cubs get Roberts

O's get Wrigley Field, Murphy's and the Cubbie Bear

A lawyer! Great source!

that's what the guy told me and he said the lawyer drew up the legal papers.

The deal had been held up because the Cubs didn't want to give up Marmol, but when the O's agreed to eat Marquis' salary, apparently the Cub's went for it.

Ok, say your trade is right. Who catches for us? Blanco everyday? No. Fox? No way. It makes no sense for many reasons.

Cory,

Before you start saying that Cubs fans are showing their ignorance, make sure you have a sensible trade worked out 1st. You must have your head so high up your own backside that you can see your throat.

Sure, I think it makes a ton of sense for a club, any club, to give up 3 of it's top 5 pitching prospects for a 30 year old admitted drug user who has 2 solid years on his resume. Great effort pal!

I am not sure who is dumber, you or the guy with the lawyer friend. Right now I think it's neck and neck.

uww1,

including sherrill in the deal would not make sense. the orioles would be trading a guy who has the potential to bring in 2 additional prospects at the trade deadline. and the argument that they are a rebuilding franchise without the need for a closer is flawed because we already have him, its not like they are giving up any of their building blocks to get him. the last thing you want when trying to build a team is blowing games in the final innings. that sort of thing kills the confidence of your players. you need to lose the hard-on you have for sherrill and forget about him. at least until the trade deadline that is, then the orioles will gladly let you have him and they'll finish the draining of your farm system they started last season with the trachsel trade. here's to another century of titleless baseball at wrigley.

Don't know why you think I'm an O's fan?? No way???

Studio , The Hernandez in the deal is Ramon Hernandez, the O's catcher. The guy said he was in the deal to help offset the Marquis salary hit.

The guy did say it wasn't 100% sure as Angelos thought they should get another prospect, but he didn't know the name. He thought he'd sign off anyway though.

I am not saying you are giving him up. I was saying we give you a great prospect for him along with Roberts and that gets you almost everything that MacPhail has asked for.

Gallagher/Ceda/Cedeno
/Veal

The word I hear at the water cooler is Zell will not allow a Roberts deal until Angelos agrees to buy naming rights.

Heck with these trade rumors. I would like to know what Andy McPhail's maid looks like!! Mabe the Cubs could take her for Marquis?

INOK, sorry but you'll have to wait for an update on the maid situation. I'm playing polo with the guy again on Thursday. I'll ask him for a photo that Tim can include in his next video.

oh goody ... sorry i couldn't resist ;)

Studio, is it really true about Marquis sitting in street clothes in the locker room during game 3? If so, then I cant defend him anymore.

ha

I'll have to admit, that ridiculous lawyer concoction lightened up the mood for me a bit. It's too bad Playwright left. His posts seemed pretty plausible. The Orioles are undoubtedly seeking pitching because 1) that's how McPhail operates, by stockpiling young pitchers and 2) Patton is out for the year and they're going to want to replace him -- and they wanted to add pitching even before he got hurt. So I have to think there are multiple pitchers involved. And if he's correct about the roster space, then it likely involves guys like Ceda or Veal, but both would seem to be too much. 3 of the Cubs top 6 prospects? I don't think Hendry is THAT desperate for Roberts.

uww1, I don't agree with your Sherrill theory but it would be great if you proved us all wrong. I'll be the first to eat crow if that day ever comes. ;)

Ya we will see. I just feel that why did they ask for him, when they could have maybe asked for another prospect, even a decent one? Maybe they did and Sherrill was the best they could get, but maybe not. Why would you include a 30 some year old pitcher (Relief Pitcher by the way) in a blockbuster trade? We all know that Hendry and MacPhail know each other well and have been talking about Roberts before the Bedard trade went down. So that is kind of how I came to this Theory. I dont believe the O's got him to trade him at the deadline or to close games for probably the weakest team in baseball. I dont know if anyone watched the spring training games over the weekend but it was either Saturday or Sunday that they were interviewing Pinella or Hendry. And one of them was saying that they are looking for a LHP for the Pen and going to be making some moves.

That's an interesting thought. My gut says Hendry gets another year so he may not want to back up the truck yet. I think Hendry was prepared to trade some prospects this year but not the entire farm. It's been said that he would have traded for Swisher had he not signed Fukudome. And you know Beane would have run off with a couple of our best prospects, along with Hendry's watch and the shirt off his back. I think the fact that he did sign Fukudome allows him to use the prospects he saved to make a run at Roberts and possibly another player. But Hendry's the old farm director. He helped scout and draft these guys. It probably hurts to trade them. I don't think he'll give up a lot.

Ceda/Veal/Gallagher/(Patterson or Cedeno)

For

Roberts/Sherrill

Maybe we dont want to give that much? Why not right?

Like I said, uww1, I hope you prove me wrong. Sherrill would be a nice addition. But you know, my wife is friends with Carmen Pignatello's family -- and he looked very good the last time out. He's the sentimental pick to be the second lefty in our household.

I like Hart also. I think he should get a shot at a Starting spot. He has looked really good.

Hart's potential to start is the only reason I can give up Gallagher.

uww1, to help back up your theory, don't you think it's strange that Sherrill is a lefty? If it was really a plan to "construct" a closer and move him along, then why not pick a righty? Many teams wouldn't put a lefty in as closer on principle, so how much can you increase his value? And if you trade him to a contender for a non-closer role, have you changed his value at all?

That said, I don't buy it.

I never thought of it that way. Good point. Lefty as a closer is scarey. Glad someone is on my side. HA

Stdio I met Marquis a year ago at the Cubs convention. Got my picture taken with him and he was a**hole. I thought maybe it was just me but I heard a ton of people say the same thing. He hardly smiled in the picture. He never said HI to anyone. Sat there with Ted Lilly and didnt thank anyone for coming out to see him. He really seems like he has a bad attitude and ever since then I have not been a fan. I am with you because he can with games 5-0 to start the season? Wins 10 games. Its hard to say lets get rid of him but I feel its time to go even if we have to eat his contract. We dont need that on the team.

ya I agree, He can really pitch well when he is on. But after everything I have heard, cut the cord.

Wow,
I have no idea where to start. I think I'm glad to hear that the deal is moving forward, but, considering the chatter on this site...it's just too hard to know what's legit and what's fan speculation. uww1, I'm with you brother...keep on speculating. That's what this site is all about! I'm a diehard O's fan and really question the proposals being made by most of you Cubbie crazies, but whatever... Ndano more than made up for the nuttiness with his 'inside info.' Again, I'm a lifelong O's fan and would love to see his deal go down, but then again, I'd also like to send Jay Gibbons, Melvin Mora, Aubrey Huff, and Kevin Millar to Tampa Bay for thier Top 10 prospects...and Scott Kazmir, but I don't think that'll happen either. What was it? Colvin, Gallagher, Ceda, Soto, Marmol, Cedeno, Patterson, Ernie Banks circa 1958, and Jesus Christ for Brian Roberts and Ramon Hernandez?! Sorry, Ndano, but...you're boy is a big bleeping liar. I actually dug uww1's theory about Sherrill- at least it would explain why we decided to go after a 30 year old reliever when the idea is to build for the future. Ceda, Gallagher, Veal, and Cedeno/Patterson might work, but- and I'm just guessing here; no lawyer friends- I think Angelos/McPhail will demand a bigger name position prospect. I know he's all about the young pitching, but how many middle-of-the-rotation-ceiling guys do we need? I'd love to see Colvin, Gallagher, Cedeno, and either Veal or a player to be named (who turns out to be Tony Thomas) for Roberts, Payton, and Sherrill. I'd even be willing to pick up Marquis (what a misnomer) and his fat contract. We're going to stink anyway; at least Marquis can eat innings- poorly- while we wait on some kids with actual upside. But who knows...maybe McPhail is still a Cubbie at heart and we'll end up with Cedeno, Murton, and Ernie Banks...circa 2008. He'd probably hit better than our current SS (Luis Hernandez)!

Cheers, milehigh, I don't think you're far off...

I said 'Cubs fans' but I was actually just referring to a few of the more zealous and less objective (we're all biased, but some of the fans here are more stubborn and single-minded than others) posters. I've found the bulk of the Cubs fans on this site to be intelligent and impassioned, even if I disagree with some of their opinions/proposals.

I'm so glad he didn't end up in Atlanta like people thought might happen earlier this winter. He's an athletic guy who never figured out what kind of hitter he is, and his OBP has been dismal because of it. I guess it makes some sense for the Reds when Griffey will hurt himself tying his shoes and Freel will make a balls-to-the-wall dive right into the outfield wall and get a concussion (Freel's awesome, by the way). But that's the only capacity Patterson should be allowed to play--as a backup defensive OF. Unless he learns he's not a power hitter, that's all he's good for.

milehigh78 has some good points. Both team's fans like to speculate and the deals range from one extreme to the other. I remember the Bedard trade. It was highly rumored for much of the trade that Jones and Tillman were part of the deal. That turned out to be true. The remain pieces were though to be Clement, Triunfel, and/or Morrow by the O's fans while the Mariners fans felt that Jones and Tillman by themselves was a more than fair offer. Well, it turned out to be somewhere in between. The O's got some nice players but not the caliber of Triunfel, Clement or Morrow. I suspect the same will happen here. Gallagher and Cedeno (with Patterson as a sub in some rumors) seem to be the guys certainly involved in the deal. The other one or two players is where the biggest disagreements come in. The other players likely won't be Pie or Colvin and maybe not even Ceda. They also may not be what the most optimistic Cub fans have proposed either. I found it curious on the day that the O's scouts came to Mesa that none of the rumored players in the deal played that day. I'm assuming they stayed in Mesa and watched them a couple of days later but... Is it possible that the O's scouts went to the Cubs minor league complex instead? Maybe to watch players like Veal? Maybe Huseby? Guys with higher ceilings that project as possible top of the rotation guys but have a ways to go -- but that, at the same time, don't need to be put on the 40 man roster until the O's get rid of their Paytons, Gibbons, Moras, and Millars?

Maybe Gallagher, Veal, Huseby, and Cedeno or Patterson makes the most sense.

Crunch,

I definitely think that trade proposal works. Even add in Murton and Payton and I think the O's have got to be happy about that haul, while the Cubs would be satisfied as well, even though losing Veal would hurt.

I agree Adun, I'm really suprised he never bacame a manager. I always thought he would have made a great one!

Brett Favre is retiring. Unbelievable, going out on top (almost on top.)

Man, it is like a dagger in the heart to hear that Steve Stone is going to be doing games for the White Sox. The guy is flat-out, bar-none the best color commentator in sports. It's funny that he's being paired with flat-out, bar-none the WORST play-by-play man in sports in Ken Harrelson. White Sox fans are in for a treat...Stoney is a baseball genius and an eloquent speaker with a dry and subtle yet razor-sharp sense of humor. Bob Brenly does a very nice job, but every time I watch a Cubs telecast I wish it was still Stoney in that booth. I really would love to see him teamed up with Pat Hughes and Ron Santo in the Cubs radio booth. Hughes is really the best radio man in the game and a pair of analysts with Ronnie as the heart and Stoney as the brains would be a dream come true. Alas...

I think you Cub fans are going to be very disappointed and outraged when the deal is finally announced. Certainly I understand that every fan has there bias for the team they root for, and the same is true with me as an O's fan. But ultimately, you have to realize this, the trade is not going to made for what you "think" is fair, even if you are being impartial and it truly is fair.

Why? Because the Cubs want Roberts and want him bad, and the O's are in no hurry or rush to make a deal. They (MacPhail and Angelos) will sit on Roberts until they are blown away with a deal that looks one-sided (to the Orioles benefit). I know that many of you will be upset, but that is just the way it is right now. MacPhail will not just "get rid" of Roberts. If a killer deal doesn't develop that would make him have to trade Roberts, he will sit on him until July. Although there is some risk that Roberts will be injured, he is a very durable player and I think the O's will take this risk.

Bottom line, it is not what you or I think is fair as fans of our respective teams, it is only if the Cubs FO is willing to give up the King's ransom that MacPhail will demand.

Guy, that sounds a little like wishful thinking on your part. We'll see. We've had McPhail and we know how he operates. We heard the same bravado from Oriole fans during the Bedard talks and you wound up with just 2 top 100 prospects -- for a #1 starter. And it was a considered a great deal by most experts. That you think you'll get more for Roberts, a 2nd baseman, is irrational.

I like Roberts + Payton for Gallagher, Cedeno, Patterson, and Murton.

Roberts + Payton?
I think maybe
Gallagher / Veal / Colvin / Patterson or Cedeno / Huseby

Cubs get:
Roberts ~ Top-5 2B, LO hitter with ++speed, who will have a dramatic trickle-down effect on the overall depth of the team.
Payton ~ fills the Vet Back-Up CF they desire.

O’s get:
Gallagher ~ 3 star prospect with little risk to become a back of rotation type in AL-E
Veal ~ 3 star prospect who is a rather large risk. (didn’t adjust well to the move to AA)
Colvin ~ 3 star prospect with the normal slugger risks (power upside, but absolutely horrible plate discipline)
Patterson or Cedeno ~ flyer type for immediate help with possible upside
Huesby ~ 2 star low minors guy with quite a bit of learning to go through still.

Balt eats most of the Payton cash…

The Cubs then probably send Murton + Cotts to SanDiego for a couple BP arms ~ maybe Ledezma and Zarate.

Dark, your offer sounds fair and reasonable to me.
It really doesn't take anything that the cubs needed this year. It gives the O's possibly some players for the future and doesn't overload their 40 man roster. I'm sold!

This would be a great deal if it gets done. Imagine a lineup like this
roberts
d lee
fuku
aramis
soriano
soto
pie
theriot
but knowing the cubs it would probably be this
soriano
roberts
d lee
aramis
fuku
soto
pie
theriot

you know i have always said that soriano should be further in the order but if he can get his leg healthy and put up a few more steals it might not be bad to bat him lead off for at least one or two more season's. Especially if we have Roberts in the 2 hole. All i know is that the cubs are going to be a fun team to watch this year no matter what happens.

I usually check the the Baltimore Sun. It's pretty reasonable and they mention the Roberts deal once or twice a week.

Dark, rating by assigning stars has always seemed an arbitrary process to me - regardless of who writes it, that professional writers did it doesn’t it give it more credence in my eyes. But I don't think you're proposal is that bad. I wouldn't give up another prospect to get Payton at a low cost, though. I'd just as soon give up the 4 for Roberts -- a high price but a chance the Cubs should take – and forget Payton. And the Cubs don't have money issues, so someone paying Payton's salary isn't an incentive. The O's are rebuilding and should shed salary. Substitute Murton for Colvin and the deal makes sense for me. The Orioles can save the money on Payton, a fourth OF’er, and get a young 4th OF’er in Murton who’s his equal – if not his superior – as a hitter. The O’s already have backup CF options so losing Payton doesn’t hurt them in that respect.