Jon Heyman notes that Pat Burrell only wanted to go to the Yankees or Red Sox when the Phillies tried to trade him a few years ago. They're not great fits, but perhaps Burrell will have those two clubs at the top of his list when he hits free agency.
Ross Newhan looks at the Dodgers' trade of Pedro Martinez for Delino DeShields. He rates it the worst in franchise history. He also names the Brad Penny acquisition as the fourth-worst.
Burrell's going to follow the dollar signs. Had he been traded, he wouldn't have gotten a raise to go do San Diego or Texas ... so all things equal, of course he would want to go to a surefire contender. In free agency, though, all things are not equal. Somebody is going to give him stupid money, and they're going to be disappointed ... until, that is, his next contract year.
I understand why this writer calls the Penny/LoDuca deal a bad one and maybe there is something to the chemistry vacuum created in the wake of LoDuca's departure, but...c'mon. I think you make that deal even WITH historical foresight. A legit No. 1 starter for LoDuca?! Every day and twice on Sunday. There's just no question. You can play up chemistry all you want, but great pitching wins games and LoDuca hardly instills fear into the hearts of pitchers. Good leader? I'm sure, but if you want to lay the blame somewhere, lay it at the feet of someone- anyone- other than Penny (or whoever made the move to bring him over). It's simply poor reasoning. There are plenty of factors that go into success or lack thereof. I refuse to believe the Dodgers would have been better off having not made the LoDuca/Penny trade and, for all of the talk about LA's impatience and unwillingness to develop or play promising youngsters (generally true), here's an example of youth being served...and it's being criticized! Ridiculous.
I don't think the Yankees would be a bad fit for Burrell. If he can play some 1B, and/or if the Yankees are able to deal Matsui in the offseason, Burrell would make sense as a LF/1B/DH.
I don't see him making much sense in Boston, though, with Ramirez/Youkilis/Ortiz pretty firmly entrenched at their respective spots.
I don't see how the trade of Juan Encarnacion, Paul Lo Duca and Guillermo Mota for Brad Penny, Hee Sop Choi, and Bill Murphy (still a viable prospect with the Diamondbacks) was anything other than outstanding for the Dodgers. The LA media hated DePodesta so much that they immediately declared it a terrible deal, even though at the time, a year from then, now, and for all time it is clear that it was a great trade. They are just in denial.
Why would the Red Sox want Pat Burrell? They already are stocked in the outfield and have a gold glove first baseman plus a good backup in Sean Casey. Burrell to the Red Sox makes no sense at all.
“for all of the talk about LA's impatience and unwillingness to develop or play promising youngsters (generally true), here's an example of youth being served...and it's being criticized! Ridiculous.”
…Youth being served? Not quite following you on that one…
Overall, the Dodgers made 4 trades over that 24Hour deadline span, three after the Fla move to get the roster correct. All in all, they traded away their: (w/ages)
Starting Catcher (LoDuca – 32), Setup Man (Mota - 30), 5th OF (Juan E. - 28) ~ to Fla
4th OFer (Dave Roberts - 32) ~ to Boston
And another often-used BP arm (Tom Martin - 34) ~ to Atlanta
3 minor league guys (Koyie Hill, Bill Murphy & Reggie Abercrombie) ~ to Arz
What they got:
3 starts and a DL trip (Penny - 26), a laughingstock (Choi – 25) ~ from Fla
A Salary-Dump (Steve Finley – 39), and career back-up C (Brent Mayne) ~ Arz
2 non-factor minor leaguers (Matt Merricks and Henri Stanley) ~ from Atl and Bos respectively
Which the replacements for everyones roster spots looked like:
LoDuca – Brent Mayne (who was older)
Roberts – Steve Finley (who was older)
G.Mota – Yhency Brazoban (called up. Only real youngster to benefit from moves)
Juan E. – Choi
Martin – It just became a revolving door of a spot… TJ Mathews (purchased, never played), Mike Venafro (30 – Rcd from KC on Aug10), S.Sterwart (28 – Rcd from Cle on Aug18), Elmer Dessens (33 – Rcd from Arz on Aug19).
…Oh, and Penny was the replacement for Nomo (35) who was making spot starts and Edwin Jackson (20) who they just didn’t want to use no matter what. But he of course lasted only 3 starts, so those two had to be used anyway…
It wasn’t a bad trade in the sense of LoDuca & Mota for Penny ~ but only in the aftermath. But 6 of 25 roster spots changed over because of the move though, and a team which had come together and were dominating (they were 21–6 in July before the trade) had to go back into “who are we” mode. Althought they continued with a winning record after the move, 33-27 (.550) isnt quite the .777 that the team was on before it took place…
Long-term, it was a good deal ~ That year though; well it might have cost them a championship, and nearly cost them the playoffs! They finished the season against the team that was chasing them, the Giants. Well, they lost 2 of the 3 games, and had they also dropped the other one then it would have gone into a one-game playoff. It took Brett Tomko pitching the game of his life (7.1 IP, 4 H, 2 BB 0 Runs) for them to make it into the playoffs, by 1 game really… And once in the playoffs? Lost 3 of 4 to the Cards team which went to 7 with the Stros and got swept by the BoSox.
“Somebody is going to give him stupid money, and they're going to be disappointed ... until, that is, his next contract year.”
Pat Burell:
07 ~ 155 G, 598 PA, .256/.400/.502 – 127 OPS+
06 ~ 144 G, 567 PA, .258/.388/.502 – 122 OPS+
05 ~ 154 G, 669 PA, .281/.389/.504 – 128 OPS+
…You make it sound like they will get something bad… How can you be disappointed with that? That’s about as consistant as consistency gets, and its consistently really good…
His ability to hit consistently for power and his batting eye is not questioned. If anything he is too patient. That said, he isn't even THAT much of a liability defensively. I mean, at least he can throw. Plus, you send him to the AL and he can DH at least part time.
On the LoDuca/Penny deal:
Anyone who doesn't think the Dodgers got the best of that knows absolutely nothing about baseball. LoDuca was and is a middle tier starting catcher who had one good year and was already 32 years old when traded. Penny was already a World Series hero. Penny's injury sucked, but he turned into the Dodgers' ace and a Cy Young candidate. LoDoca, on the other hand, has shown that his 2001 year was an outlier, and that he is pretty much Jason Kendall without as much speed or batting average. Meanwhile, Russell Martin has turned into the best all-around catcher in baseball.
Burrell's going to follow the dollar signs. Had he been traded, he wouldn't have gotten a raise to go do San Diego or Texas ... so all things equal, of course he would want to go to a surefire contender. In free agency, though, all things are not equal. Somebody is going to give him stupid money, and they're going to be disappointed ... until, that is, his next contract year.
Posted by: AJ | April 23, 2008 at 10:54 AM
I understand why this writer calls the Penny/LoDuca deal a bad one and maybe there is something to the chemistry vacuum created in the wake of LoDuca's departure, but...c'mon. I think you make that deal even WITH historical foresight. A legit No. 1 starter for LoDuca?! Every day and twice on Sunday. There's just no question. You can play up chemistry all you want, but great pitching wins games and LoDuca hardly instills fear into the hearts of pitchers. Good leader? I'm sure, but if you want to lay the blame somewhere, lay it at the feet of someone- anyone- other than Penny (or whoever made the move to bring him over). It's simply poor reasoning. There are plenty of factors that go into success or lack thereof. I refuse to believe the Dodgers would have been better off having not made the LoDuca/Penny trade and, for all of the talk about LA's impatience and unwillingness to develop or play promising youngsters (generally true), here's an example of youth being served...and it's being criticized! Ridiculous.
Posted by: milehigh78 | April 23, 2008 at 10:54 AM
I don't think the Yankees would be a bad fit for Burrell. If he can play some 1B, and/or if the Yankees are able to deal Matsui in the offseason, Burrell would make sense as a LF/1B/DH.
I don't see him making much sense in Boston, though, with Ramirez/Youkilis/Ortiz pretty firmly entrenched at their respective spots.
Posted by: sciorsci | April 23, 2008 at 11:13 AM
I don't see how the trade of Juan Encarnacion, Paul Lo Duca and Guillermo Mota for Brad Penny, Hee Sop Choi, and Bill Murphy (still a viable prospect with the Diamondbacks) was anything other than outstanding for the Dodgers. The LA media hated DePodesta so much that they immediately declared it a terrible deal, even though at the time, a year from then, now, and for all time it is clear that it was a great trade. They are just in denial.
Posted by: John Peterson | April 23, 2008 at 12:22 PM
This guy (who apparently would rather have LoDuca than Penny) is insane.
That's worse than Konerko for Shaw?
Posted by: bobo | April 23, 2008 at 12:31 PM
Why would the Red Sox want Pat Burrell? They already are stocked in the outfield and have a gold glove first baseman plus a good backup in Sean Casey. Burrell to the Red Sox makes no sense at all.
Posted by: cole9098 | April 23, 2008 at 01:05 PM
“for all of the talk about LA's impatience and unwillingness to develop or play promising youngsters (generally true), here's an example of youth being served...and it's being criticized! Ridiculous.”
…Youth being served? Not quite following you on that one…
Overall, the Dodgers made 4 trades over that 24Hour deadline span, three after the Fla move to get the roster correct. All in all, they traded away their: (w/ages)
Starting Catcher (LoDuca – 32), Setup Man (Mota - 30), 5th OF (Juan E. - 28) ~ to Fla
4th OFer (Dave Roberts - 32) ~ to Boston
And another often-used BP arm (Tom Martin - 34) ~ to Atlanta
3 minor league guys (Koyie Hill, Bill Murphy & Reggie Abercrombie) ~ to Arz
What they got:
3 starts and a DL trip (Penny - 26), a laughingstock (Choi – 25) ~ from Fla
A Salary-Dump (Steve Finley – 39), and career back-up C (Brent Mayne) ~ Arz
2 non-factor minor leaguers (Matt Merricks and Henri Stanley) ~ from Atl and Bos respectively
Which the replacements for everyones roster spots looked like:
LoDuca – Brent Mayne (who was older)
Roberts – Steve Finley (who was older)
G.Mota – Yhency Brazoban (called up. Only real youngster to benefit from moves)
Juan E. – Choi
Martin – It just became a revolving door of a spot… TJ Mathews (purchased, never played), Mike Venafro (30 – Rcd from KC on Aug10), S.Sterwart (28 – Rcd from Cle on Aug18), Elmer Dessens (33 – Rcd from Arz on Aug19).
…Oh, and Penny was the replacement for Nomo (35) who was making spot starts and Edwin Jackson (20) who they just didn’t want to use no matter what. But he of course lasted only 3 starts, so those two had to be used anyway…
It wasn’t a bad trade in the sense of LoDuca & Mota for Penny ~ but only in the aftermath. But 6 of 25 roster spots changed over because of the move though, and a team which had come together and were dominating (they were 21–6 in July before the trade) had to go back into “who are we” mode. Althought they continued with a winning record after the move, 33-27 (.550) isnt quite the .777 that the team was on before it took place…
Long-term, it was a good deal ~ That year though; well it might have cost them a championship, and nearly cost them the playoffs! They finished the season against the team that was chasing them, the Giants. Well, they lost 2 of the 3 games, and had they also dropped the other one then it would have gone into a one-game playoff. It took Brett Tomko pitching the game of his life (7.1 IP, 4 H, 2 BB 0 Runs) for them to make it into the playoffs, by 1 game really… And once in the playoffs? Lost 3 of 4 to the Cards team which went to 7 with the Stros and got swept by the BoSox.
Posted by: darkstar1661 | April 23, 2008 at 01:11 PM
“Somebody is going to give him stupid money, and they're going to be disappointed ... until, that is, his next contract year.”
Pat Burell:
07 ~ 155 G, 598 PA, .256/.400/.502 – 127 OPS+
06 ~ 144 G, 567 PA, .258/.388/.502 – 122 OPS+
05 ~ 154 G, 669 PA, .281/.389/.504 – 128 OPS+
…You make it sound like they will get something bad… How can you be disappointed with that? That’s about as consistant as consistency gets, and its consistently really good…
Posted by: darkstar1661 | April 23, 2008 at 01:13 PM
Defensive and baserunning liability with a 900 OPS is OK. Just not sure it's worth $15-18m/year.
Posted by: bjsguess | April 23, 2008 at 02:51 PM
On Burrell:
His ability to hit consistently for power and his batting eye is not questioned. If anything he is too patient. That said, he isn't even THAT much of a liability defensively. I mean, at least he can throw. Plus, you send him to the AL and he can DH at least part time.
On the LoDuca/Penny deal:
Anyone who doesn't think the Dodgers got the best of that knows absolutely nothing about baseball. LoDuca was and is a middle tier starting catcher who had one good year and was already 32 years old when traded. Penny was already a World Series hero. Penny's injury sucked, but he turned into the Dodgers' ace and a Cy Young candidate. LoDoca, on the other hand, has shown that his 2001 year was an outlier, and that he is pretty much Jason Kendall without as much speed or batting average. Meanwhile, Russell Martin has turned into the best all-around catcher in baseball.
Posted by: AA | April 23, 2008 at 04:33 PM