Rosenthal's Latest: Sabathia, Bay, Wolf

its funny how things can change so quickly, beckett and sabathia were a hair away from each other in Cy Young awards last year and now only a couple months into this season they are sub par so far. talk about a chance of a lifetime for the yankees though, they REALLY need to consider this if this comes to life. the yankees need another super starter very badly, even more then they did last year. this time though should trade kennedy and see if they can sneak by without losing hughes. if the indians wanted a hitter, id have to say a kennedy/matsui/gonzalez/plus 1 should really be something the yankees go after, if the indians would take it

plus the yanks get first dibs on extensions with, now that santana is in the nl, the third best starter in the AL, in my opinion of course

Sabathia to the Cubs? They could out a good package together I think. Could this work out? Just a thought.

All mindless speculation. C.C. is not going anywhere as long as the Indians stay close. But if he were traded, the Indians would be stupid to trade him to an AL team like the Yanks. Just like the Ywins sent Santana to the NL where at best, they face him once every three years. Since the Cubs put together packages of garbage in trades, I think you can eliminate them too.

The Cubs have a lot of Prospects they could put together to get Sabathia. I would never count them out of anything.

Just playing devil's advocate: Like the Yanks, the Cubs never put together a serious package for Santana, who was a better package. Why would they put together a good package for a lesser pitcher? It's not as thought Hill, Gallagher, and Cedeno are going to be all the Indians want from the Cubs. I don't think those 3 plus Pie would do it either.

When Santana was for sale the Cubs didnt need a pitcher. And they did call on Santana but he only wanted a Easy coast team. I disagree that Santana is a better pitcher. But thats only an opinion. If the Cubs get serious in Sabathia, and I hope they do, they could put together a package that intrigues the Indians.

I was thinking of Hill/Pie/Ceda/Veal/Patterson or Cedeno

Would that do it?

Omega, I think those three plus Pie would do it. The Indians have to feel that their chances of signing CC would be about 1:3, at best. If they fell off the pennant race they would snap at it. The only problem might be fitting those four players on the 40 man roster. I don't follow the Indians close enough to know if that would be a problem.

“its funny how things can change so quickly, beckett and sabathia were a hair away from each other in Cy Young awards last year and now only a couple months into this season they are sub par so far”

…Over his last 7 starts he has 50.1 IP, 56 K, 11 BB, 41 H (1.03 WHIP) and a 1.61 ERA. I don’t know if I would consider a couple miserable games in the first week enough to call him “sub par” when he has been rather unhittable otherwise…

…anyway, there is no point to trade CC. What positions would they trade for when the team is not sure what next years holes will be? And they wont know for sure if they will lose Sabathia till after the season, and there is a strong possibility he resigns. If he does walk, you get two 1st rounders and have the cash to spend of another FA at that time. Trading Sabathia is almost guaranteed not to happen unless the Tribe receives a package that’s just impossible to turn down…

Horatio, I just don't think any of those 4 are anything but mid-level guys. Nothing really sexy about any of them.

Pie ~ Indians have no use for, they already have 5 CFers between AAA & the majors (Sizemore, Choo, Gutierrez, Francisco and Snyder)

Cedeno or Patterson ~ Again, no use. The 2009 2B spot comes from one of AsCab, Barfield or Josh Rodriguez. One of Cabrera/Rodriguez might also end up at SS if Peralta is moved to third… 2B is only brought in if it’s a true upgrade to the lineup, ie Roberts…

Youre then left with a group of pitchers who would be fighting it out with Laffey, Sowers, Miller (when healthy), Lofgren, Slocum, Huff and Smith for I guess 2 rotation spots behind Carmona, Lee and Westbrook. But that’s if the team doesn’t sign another upper-rotation guy off the FA market as a replacement for Sabathia; there could only be one open rotation spot for the 9-10 guys to fight for…

Cleveland would be much better off trying to resign him or in a worst case taking the DPs and getting something they can actually use…

Like I said, they don’t really know what next years holes will be, the package would have to be one of those “offers you cant refuse” types if they somehow decided to actually trade him for whatever reason…

i'd rather keep all of my prospects as a cubs fan, c.c. hasn't looked good this year and he definitely didnt in the playoffs last year. maybe this is a result of him pitching 65 more innings last year than the year before. thats a crazy increase. the cubs have plenty of starters in the minors, i still haven't given up on rich hill.

darkstar, i really like your analysis of why the indians wouldn't trade with the cubs--at least for those players. i would agree that they will most likely hold on to him and that will be the case with many of the big names around the league as the trade deadline approaches. it would take an offer the indians couldn't refuse. one that i can't think of at the moment, but would almost certainly have to include some power at one of the corner positions--infield or outfield. could the cardinals put together an offer involving chris duncan and others? i doubt it. how about the angels involving kendry morales? would they need sabathia and be able to put together enough talent to acquire him?

That angels idea is interesting. if they lose a SP between now and the deadline and the indians fallout that could work. the indians might be able to pull something out of a package around wood/kendrick/adenhart, not all of them, but at least 1 with some prospects.

Darkstar, just to keep you updated, your group of Indians pitchers include Sean Smith who went to the Rockies as the player to be named later for Jamey Carroll. But I agree the Cubs names being tossed around are not only not exciting but couldn't be accomodated on a crowded Tribe roster. Fans think quantity counts but I think Shapiro would rather have a couple of impact guys than a big group of organizational types.

...and if the Reds added a power lefty like Sabathia to their rotation, the rest of the NL Central could have reason to be concerned. How about Darryl Thompson, Todd Frazier, Travis Wood and maybe one more prospect?

MickS- The Reds would make an interesting trade partner if they could put together the scratch to give CC a long term deal. You're underestimating the prospects they'd need to send to Cleveland, but I wonder if, perhaps, the Indians wouldn't take something like Adam Dunn, Homer Bailey and Todd Frazier for CC (maybe a sign-and-trade?). Or Bailey, Thompson, Frazier, Valaika, and Roenicke or Scott Carroll. Whaddya think darkstar?

“Darkstar, just to keep you updated, your group of Indians pitchers include Sean Smith who went to the Rockies as the player to be named later for Jamey Carroll.”

…I was actually thinking more along the lines of Christopher. He seems to be on the same learning program as Carmona, Laffey, etc… IE, keep him in lower minors to learn his stuff for a couple years before speeding him through the system once he figures it out… Figure he will probably see Akron sometime in the next month or two… I mean, maybe not, his ratios arent that hot afterall ~ but the team has gotten more out of less and I just have my eye on him…

"but I wonder if, perhaps, the Indians wouldn't take something like Adam Dunn, Homer Bailey and Todd Frazier for CC (maybe a sign-and-trade?). Or Bailey, Thompson, Frazier, Valaika, and Roenicke or Scott Carroll. Whaddya think darkstar?"

...I think he isnt going anywhere...

A deal involving Dunn of course is intriguing, but it would mean a rather complete makeover of the club would be in order to accommodate the SP to OF change. I mean, FrankieG and Choo are out of options, so even if DavidD was DFAed, Francisco would have to be sent to the minors to keep Goot and Choo around. A new pitcher would be needed, and that doesnt include Laffey who is already filling in for Carmona... It would mean a lot of moves for a team still in a race...

Some of the Reds infield depth would be very attractive to the Tribe. Valaika, Frazier, Waring, Juan Francisco. Frankly, I'd rather have Tompson than Bailey. People I talk to who should know say that Homer is a bit of an a**hole and won't listen to coaches. He's not looking that great in AAA. Who knows though. Castellini says he'll spend money and the reds rotation desperatley needs a left hander.

“Some of the Reds infield depth would be very attractive to the Tribe. Valaika, Frazier, Waring, Juan Francisco. Frankly, I'd rather have Tompson than Bailey.”

…But that would take throwing in the towel on 08 and taking the risk you cant resign him. You think the Indians would really do it?

I see it as the Reds probably being asked to give up something similar to what they wouldnt give up for Bedard; then it gets to the point where the question turns to whether you think they would do it as well…

At the deadline if the Tribe is still struggling and Jay Bruce gives the Reds the lift that I expect (they could be on the heels of the Cubs by then) then a deal is a possiblity. A remote possiblity.