White Sox Interested In Figgins?

Here's an idea-how 'bout the Indians go after a leadoff hitter who can play second base instead of letting another player who could help us go to a division rival?

No. Two GOOD prospects would be fine. I'm saying that THE WHITE SOX couldn't put FIVE eligible prospects together to entice me.

Let's look at it this way. I think Roberts' value is greater than Swisher's, but I'm guessing you'll think the opposite. So, for agrument's sake, I'll say Roberts' value is less than Swisher's, greater than Renteria's. I'd take Gio Gonzalez & Fautino de los Santos for Roberts minus Sweeney, so less than the Swisher bounty). Or I'll take Jair Jurrgens & Gorkys Hernandez for Roberts (the Renteria bounty). But the Sox don't have two eligible prospects to trade of such value.

Unless it's a Figgins for Crede deal (Angels would probably have to throw something else in there considering Crede's value has skyrocketted) where the Angels instantly turn around and sign Crede long term (doubt Boras will allow that) I don't see Figgins in a ChiSox uniform this year. Really, what incentive do the Angels have to trade Figgins? The Angels, while no lock to win the West, are in the best position to win the West are probably will run away with the division by August at the latest.

It comes down to this, the Angels real weaknesses as stated above are 2nd and 3rd. One resolution is when (or if) Kendrick is healthy and the other is Figgins, so unless the Angels get bowled over with an offer, why would they part with Figgins?

I still think they should at least try Alexei Ramirez at leadoff.

HA! Figgins for Crede is idiotic. I happen to be somewhat close with a person atop the Angels front office and their is ZERO chance that Figgins gets traded. Additionally, unless Brandon Wood goes in a trade the Angels are not looking to sign a Crede or any other high profile 3b. This is writing to rile up the blood.

BK, that was kinda the point I was making. I don't see how the Angels could make a deal like that and get better, or for that matter deal Figgins at all and get better. I only really suggested that because Cowley is suggesting the Angles want Crede at 3rd. Personally I'd keep Figgins at 3rd and remember the team phillosphy is speed.

I disagree with a lot of you hear... the Angels wanted Paul Konerko in 05, and he almost signed with them. yes, hes having a down year thus far, but i still think hes a really good fit with the Angels. A trade built around Chone Figgins for Paul Konerko has merit. There would be other pieces involved, but swapping those two players would makes sense for both teams looking to improve immediately.

Figgins is a terribly underrated player. He doesn't have the power like Crede, but in any given year he can hit over .300 and steal at least 50 bases. Plus he's a good 3B. The White Sox should pursue Chone.

"What team WOULDN'T be interested in Figgins????

Does kenny Williams like K-Rod, Weaver, and Vlad too?"

Not to mention Torii Hunter, Casey Kotchman and Mike Napoli?

Funny stuff.

"In 2008 I take Kotchman over Konerko any day of the week."

The numbers even say that 2007 Kotchman is better than 2007 Konerko, and that doesn't even account for the defensive differences.

"start_wearing_purple - to quote you, "... Unless it's a Figgins for Crede deal (Angels would probably have to throw something else in there considering Crede's value has skyrocketted) ... The Angels wouldn't be throwing anything else period. Crede is not even close to being as valuable as Figgins."

It would be the White Sox that would have to throw something in, and they don't really have anything in the way of reasonable trade chips. Besides, the loss of speed would really hurt the Angels' game.

Wow, this topic is flooded with Angels bias and Chone Figgins is being incredibly overrated. As for bjguess' comment about me, I'll call bullshit because a .348 OBP isn't exactly bad.

come on gogopalehose ... admit your mistake and move on. Are you really telling the world that you think Joe Crede is a solid OBP guy?

Career OBP: .307
Best Ever (full year): .323

Figgins OBP 2008: .421
Career OBP: .357
Best Ever (full year): .393 (last year)

Look - if Crede continues his pace he is projected to hit 275/348/507 w/ 30 bombs. That's not a bad line. I just don't buy it for one second that he can sustain this.

Of course, if you are going to project Crede just based off these numbers then please extend the same courtesy to Figgins. Figgins is projected to steal 50+ bases and hold a 420 OBP. If that were true he would be much more valuable than a 350OBP guy with 30 home runs.

"I will respectfully disagree with your opinion that Figgins is more valuable. You can make a case for either. If Joe can stop being so lax in the field and making careless errors he would be even more valuable."

How can you disagree? I guess if you are a Crede fan, I can understand, but still, Crede is not nearly the offensive producer Figgins is, and he is less valuable in field as well, both at 3B and because of Figgins' versatility.

Crede's only strength over Figgins is his pure home run power. Figgins is a better hitter overall, a better fielder, faster, more versatile and more patient. The guy has a RF arm and SS agility (his original position when drafted).

"Crede, all other years, is a better fielder than Figgins. He is an elite fielder but has made some bad plays this year. He has the capacity to drive in a lot of runs and he is a great clutch hitter. They both have their various intangibles, both very valuable."

What are you talking about? One, Figgins hasn't yet spent 2 consecutive seasons as a regular at a position in his entire career. He is just that versatile. That versatility means he is a more valuable defensive player than Crede. Further, he gets to a lot more balls than Crede because of his quickness, which means more chance of making errors (nevermind that he has never had more than 13 errors in a year at 3B). Add to that, he has a better arm.

As for the offensive side, again, the only place Crede wins is that he will hit more homers. Figgins has game changing speed and has matured into a switch-hitting Tony Gwynn style hitter, mashing line drives to the opposite field. Crede will always likely have more RBI because Figgins is a leadoff hitter, which means fewer RBI chances. As for clutch hitting, Figgins is a career .320 hitter with RISP, which is a full 26 points more than Crede.

^should be 150 points of OPS on Figgins in late and close situations.

AnteaterPadre, were you the one that said the Padres didn't need Willits because they had a great team?! I could've sworn you were talking about how Edmonds and Giles were the answer in the outfield and that they had a GREAT leadoff hitter... Now you want Figgins to what, bat cleanup or MAYBE, JUST MAYBE bat LEADOFF?! Hmmm, what about your beloved Giles?!

Where are you going to play him on the Padres, the infield is full of the only players that are worth a crap on the team besides a couple pitchers... Of course you could play him at 3B, but wait you have Kouzmanoff there who was the perenial cleanup guy that was going to put San Diego on the map, he's on course for what 14-15 HR, 60 RBI, has a .269 AVG and .300 OBP?! Wow, good call on not needing to bat him 6th like I said... I wore up and down that you needed a legitimate bat behind Gonzalez who could protect him and you scoffed at that too! Funny stuff...

Oh and as far as the Padres being interested in the very talented Figgins, of course they would, after reading an article on CBS Sportsline where they said "the Padres have the ultra rare combination of no power and no speed"... After that assessment, I would be surprised if they would turn down a 60 year old with two good hips, recent Lasik eye surgery, and the ability to swing a 2.5 lb. stick!

You have no proof on Figgins defense. You just have opinion. Just cause he can play 6 positions it doesn't make him a good third basemen. There is a reason he has almost as many outfield games as at third. He's adequate, but he wouldn't ever be great at it. And he isn't better than Crede.

Figgins has a .260s BA in late and close so it isn't like he's hitting a lot of singles either. Crede not only hits singles but he drives in runs in late innings with his power. He beat the Angels with his power in the clutch in the 05 ALCS.

And late and close stats mean little? You're losing credibility. The fact of the matter is that anyone would rather have Crede late and close. The power hitter beats the slap hitter with speed. Crede is homering and doubling when Figgins is worse than normal in clutch situations. You aren't going to change my mind because Crede is the more valuable hitter. Save us both time.

By the way, FIGGINS is under control through 2009, Crede is a free agent and they either trade him or get nothing... If they offer arbitration, Crede will snag it up and they know it... Figgins if for nothing else represents a return for this season and next with the ability to offer arbitration in his walk year when he enters FA if he does... If Figgins accepts arb, he'll still be under paid, if he doesn't accept it, then you get two picks... Sometimes it's more than on the field production and I'm sorry to say, from a Mariner fan's perspective, I am far more worried to see Figgins in there than Crede... Even if it's Bedard or Felix, I get a little sketchy, but you put Crede in and I'll check how the figure skating competition is going and then go back to the game when he's done striking out...

Okay so strikeout was a little much, he does only have 1 SO career against those guys but then again he's also 1 out of 15 with three walks against two of the top pitchers in the AL, a good way to judge ability, how do you do against some of the best... His numbers equal out to a .067 AVG with a .222 OBP.

By the way, yes, there are equally talented or better pitchers, but these are two that he's faced a fair amount. I'm just doing it to be quick, plus Figgins has seen these guys regularly enough that you can get a feel for his stats against them even though he's had a short career than Crede... Figgins hits 7 for 35 with 4 walks, so he's on 11 out of 39 times for a .200 AVG and a .282 OBP.

As for the ".348 OBP, he's a .307 OBP guy career with a .259 AVG... That's 4 points lower career than Mark McGwire had and that's a guy that hit a lot more taters and couldn't do much else besides that. I mean he was Dunn-esque in his earlier years, there were a few years he batted 7th because of his inability to hit for average, yet he's in front of Crede... As for career comparisons... Figgins, has a .293 AVG, .357 OBP split with only a 51 points lower SLG., then you add in the fact he's scored 101 more runs than crede with only 63 more ABs, it tells you that he crosses the plate 4 times for every 3 that Crede does, that's valuable... Oh and Crede only has 92 more RBIs and that's while he's batted 5th or 6th... Figgins used as a leadoff hitter suffers in that category because of the bottom of the order being before him, so add 20 per season to his total if he's in the middle of the lineup and that's not even an advantage for Crede... Crede just isn't a better player in ANY way and if you don't see that then you my friend are far more biased than any other person on here, including me... Since everyone thinks I wipe my ass with Angels jerseys, and have an Oakland A's footmat outside my house, it says something when you look biased compared to me...

"AA those points were made for you not against you that you started with... you merged the two posts under one author"

I wasn't disagreeing with your post, just fleshing it out.

"in fact I'd say he's more untouchable than Vlad and Lackey... "

I would say that, at this point, no one is more untouchable than Vlad, simply because of he absolute star power. Still, I do think Figgins is a player they would have a very difficult time justifying moving, simply because he has a rather unique skill set.

I highly doubt that Figgins has been made available by the Angels. However, if somehow this rumor is true and the Angels are considering dealing Figgins, if the ChiSox can get him for just a couple prospects or some good deal like that they should not pass that up!!

I wouldn't say that Figgins is a better 3B than Crede. Crede has been a stellar defensive 3rd baseman for years.

However, Figgins is the better defensive player because of his versatility. He is more valuable as a guy who can play any role.

This year is a good example. Crede is blocking Fields. A guy that was ranked as the 2nd best prospect in the WS organization and an overall top 50 prospect (in 2007). If it was Figgins in Chicago instead of Crede he could slide over 2B or play in the OF to open a spot for Fields.

I've always liked Crede. Think he is a great guy and has provided some very clutch moments against my team. However, there is no way a guy with a career OBP right around 300, coming off major back surgery is anywhere near as valuable as Figgins.

"There is no arguing that. The Sox need a 2nd basemen much more than they need a 3rd basemen...and Figgins would be perfect for that. Not to mention his offensive production coming from 2nd looks a whole lot better when compared to being at 3rd."

Second is probably Figgins' worst defensive position, though he still plays well there. It also wastes his arm strength. Also, what is with the "slotting" of certain types of offensive production from certain positions. Who cares if Figgins isn't a feast or famine HR mashing plod? The Angels get power instead from all 3 OF positions, C, 1B and 2B when Kendrick gets back. That is like saying Keith Hernandez wasn't a great player because he never hit more than 18 HR in a year playing 1B, or saying Gwynn was a crap RF because he didn't mash homers like Vlad. Production is production, no matter how it comes.

Would something along the lines of Lance Broadway and Danny Richar be good enough to get Freddy Sanchez?

Sanchez batted .344 a couple years back, and over .300 again last year, he hardly sucks.

Re: Crede’s BB totals ~ don’t get too excited. He’s currently compiling all those walks from the 7&8 spots in the lineup, constantly hitting in front of guys like Uribe, Ramirez, Anderson, etc. When you have some of the worst hitters in the league behind you, you will see everyone trying to nibble the plate and eventually unintentionally intentionally walking you quite often... Specifically, the BB totals break down like this:

Batting 8th – 6 BB in 85 PA
Batting 7th – 6 BB in 39 PA
vs
Batting 1-6 – 2 BB in 40 PA

Crede vs Figgins ~ no comparison… Even if Crede continues production similar to his 2006 lines, what does that mean? The 280-ish BA and 330-ish OBP would be a miserable line for Figgins. Oh, and that OBP difference means about an extra 50+ times on base over the 180-ish Crede had in 2006... The 500-ish SLG is kinda nice, but that’s about 60-ish XBH to Figgins generally being worth 40-45 with 40-60 SB on top of it. Figgins is on base more, gets past 1st more, is a difference maker on the bases, is more versatile in the lineup and on the field and costs nearly half as much. Again, just no comparison…

Crede just doesn’t really bring anything to the table other than that HR power ~ and there is nothing worse then the “sit and wait for the 3Run homer” mentality that his game best suits. Oh, and because of his injury history, questions regarding sustaining this play and his 30+ Age being one which is not generally favorable to big-slow-HR-hitters… well, his value really cant be much higher than it was when no one wanted him 1.5 months ago…

WhiteSox fans, enjoy his recent hitting but please don’t tell everyone else it somehow means something more than it is. He’s serviceable, but that’s really it…

"For what it is worth, he has a 1.20ish OPS in late and close situations this year."

And that is one stat you can point to. Since you apparently think that is what makes a player, how about the fact that Figgins is hitting .429/.613/.429 with RISP? With RISP and 2 out, .545/.706/.545. Those absolutely smash Crede's numbers, especially with 2 out where Crede is hitting only .222.

Even by your "clutch" measure, Figgins is dominating Crede.

Gload and Mackowiak had 400 ABs between them, I won't put much stock into it. I get your point, but does that mean Crede will stop getting pitched around? If that happens, will he hit the ball harder?

You watchin the Sox-Tribe tonight?

I agree with darkstar's evaluation of Crede. He is essentially a poor man's Tim Wallach, without quite the glove.

I actually think that Crede is a rich man's Pedro Feliz. Little worse defender, little better hitter. Little younger, with a little more upside.

In fact, isn't he like a better fielding Brandon Inge?

Thats not to rip on Crede in any way, he is what he is. His very good overall(despite a couple bad plays this year) defense makes him a pretty decent option if you don't have anyone in house with very good upside...but he is hardly a 3rd basemen that you want to build around for the future.

By the way, Figgins is known to be genuinely not very good at defense at either 2nd or 3rd base...which is where Crede closes the gap at least a little bit. But, when you add the fact that you can put Chone at like 5 positions...maybe 4, its not really that close.

Please don't tell me Chone is a good defender until you can look up his range and defensive metrics though...I will believe it if its there, but I'll go by reputation until then.

Okay Crede is a better defender is complete crap...

NAME RF (Range Factor) ZR(Zone Rating)
Crede 2.81 .780
Figgins 2.72 .887

What are we to deduce because of this, well for starters, my guess would be that since Figgins kicks the sh*t out of Crede, like Joe is a one-legged man in an ass kicking competition, when it comes to Zone Rating, it's pretty clear Crede doesn't have that "first step quickness" over Figgins that some dude was throwing around...

What do you think gets Figgins so many steals every year, I'd love to know if it's not his first two steps. Stupid. I mean why do you think the hardest area to defend is 2B and SS(ball gets there faster and they are routinely expected to cover the 2nd and 3rd most amount of area beside CF and so it's a position that through the years is dominated by guys like Jackie Robinson who was a football great in college or Eddie Collins, Honus Wagner, and Joe Morgan, who steal bases like a poor man steals bread!

Figgins game translates to the infield better than the outfield, personally I want my slowest guy at 1B, then RF, then LF, in that order. The right side gets less play than Michael Jackson since Neverland Ranch closed and LF is my preference over the other infielders or CF, but if you can get them behind the plate, sign me up!

As for RF (Range Factor) PO+A/Innings Played is the equation... Let's see how many holes are in this logic, variables that can skew the stats... GO/AO pitching stats (Chicago with a 1.23 to 1.12 advantage over LAA in this stat means Crede gets many more chances on average), the defensive prowess or lack there of in the SS, how hard the pitchers throw, lefty or righty pitchers creating lineup changes, etc.

The point is that any number of stats could sway something as vague as PO+A/Innings played... I mean let's be real here, you're going to tell me that because Crede gets 10 chances and makes three errors in a 9 inning game yet Figgins is 4 for 4 on fielding chances in the same game that Crede is better?! That's how stupid Range Factor is...

Hopefully they get rid of that crap soon because unless it's Beltre at 3B it's a very misleading number... Then again Beltre is a monster at the third bag, look it up only Chipper is better. Oh and one more thing how does Crede has a hard time focusing mean he's a better defender?! Sounds to me like he's a liability waiting to happen even when he's feeling healthy. That means he's got a bad back and he can't focus, there's two reasons to not want him. Oh and a .927 (9 errors in 124 chances) fielding percentage is not serviceable especially with a ground ball pitching-staff, then you look at Figgins who has managed a .986 (1 error in 72 chances) fielding percentage. Also Inge kicks the crap out of Crede in fielding pick your stat 3.72 RF or .921 ZR to go with 0 errors in 48 chances. Sorry but Crede is a poor man's Inge, not the other way around...

http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/rings/discussion/2006_defensive_ratings_through_june_22/

In Crede's last healthy year, he kicked the crap out of the below average Figgins defensively.

You must be using this year's very small sample size to get your data. That is fine, and definitely relevant as well, considering this year is well...happening right now. I'm just trying to say that historically, Crede is the better defender. He might have lost some of that with his back surgery...who knows? it would prove your point even more though...

Inge is very good by the way...I didn't realize he was that good. Makes you think Miggy should be at 1st right now...

I definitely think that Chone is the more "valuable" player so to speak...but I think its unfair to only use this year's small sample size to judge Crede's defense, which historically, has been very good. I haven't looked at Figgins' for awhile, and maybe he really is better, but at least as of a year ago, he was below average.

Crede and Swisher for Matthews? Two players that are better than him for less the cost? This man is on crack. At least AA tried.

ZR-Zone rating. The percentage of balls fielded by a player in his typical defensive "zone," as measured by STATS, Inc.

2006-
Crede- .790
Figgins- .704

2007-
Crede- .831 (not a huge sample size here, about how many innings they both have in 2008 so far)
Figgins- .734(he had over 800 innings here, a large sample size)

This is NOT counting anything against him for not having played as many innings, and NOT counting anything against him for having fly ball pitchers. Its simply the amount of balls that were within the 3rd base "zone" that he got to.

So one way to look at it is saying 1-ZR= % of plays they should have made, and didn't....right?

So with that formula, you have:

% of balls hit into their zone that they did NOT field:

2006
Figgins - 29.6%
Crede - 22%

2007-
Figgins - 26.6%
Crede - 16.9%

So like I said...I'm not really on either side here, just trying to present the data. If we are measuring how good these two have historically been, I think you have to say Crede has been the better defender.

I should also say that those are PECOTA's projections for them this year.

Their measures 2007 were:

Crede- In 44 games, saved 9 runs

Figgins - in 95 games, cost the team 7 runs

Their measures of 2006 were:

Crede - In 141 games, saved 24 runs.

Figgins - no data...for whatever reason

So all I'm trying to say here, again, is that Crede has historically been the better fielder, no matter how you really look at it here. Figgins is overall more valuable, but Crede is the better defensive 3rd basemen...or at least has been, and needs to prove he still is after back surgery.

I didn't say the quickest reaction spot because God knows 3B is called the hot corner for a reason, but if you drew an imaginary line 40% of the way from third base to second base and then a line 10% of the way to first base from second base that's parallel to the bsepath between 2nd and 3rd, you would have the area needing to be covered by th SS, flip it over and it's the same for 2B, your range area is always assumed to overlap.

When you also include foul territory and first right of refusal over the corner infielder on all pop-ups, plus the amount of outfield they have to cover, their area is FAR MORE VAST than that of 3B or 1B and technically, the ball comes back quicker to the pitcher if I was really talking about reaction time... 60'6" minus stride is definitely less reaction time than 85 feet when playing in on the corners.

The middle infielders have only 20-30 more feet to react, but they have probably four times the area to cover, so they do have to be very FLEET footed and that was the point I attempted to make, I thought that was clear when I talked about J-Rob and his football days alone with THREE of the BEST BASE STEALERS of ALL TIME. I was more referencing that everyone thinks of CF as your quickest player on the team, but it's not always the case... You would never see HALF the major league CF play middle infield, regardless of throwing arm(left or right).

My point is that with Figgins quickness and he has IMPROVED HUGE amounts, he could easily play short especially considering as you just said, the ball gets there to 3B sooner and it's typically a longer thrower, albeit shorter doesn't always mean easier. I have watched Figgins this season and his defense is very sound, he doesn't look lost out there like he did last season. Remember also when you compare the two... Crede will only get worse due to injury and age, especially since he played the position for most of his career and probably, speculation is about to follow, since he was in high school or before. Back to facts, Figgins is still learning the position, he came up as a 2B and OF, so it's been a learning process, but he's improved A LOT, and might I add that I say BEGRUDGINGLY because I am a MARINERS fan! His defense is excellent, not Beltre good and that's not biased, he's amazing, feel jealousy that you don't get to watch this guy play 3B every game with the same jealousy that I have for not being able to watch Hanley Ramirez hit and run, Peavy pitch, and see the duo of Wright and Reyes put on a show in NY. Beltre no bias involved is the best 3B, I'VE EVER SEEN PLAY THE GAME! I've been watching games every day for 20 years and look through video highlights on MLB now during the offseason because of seperation anxiety from the game(not really anything that psychologically messed up, but yeah it sucks to see the season end). I REPEAT I'VE NEVER SEEN A BETTER 3B play the game defensively. He has no weakness, he's quick, he's explosive out of the crouch, soft hands, guick release, strong arm, strong instincts, and he's confident. I've watched Carney Lansford and Edgar Martinez first hand, Matt Williams was solid, but I mean he makes these guys look like Chuck Knoblauch/Alfonso Soriano at 2B. Figgins is only a couple notches below Beltre, seriously.

Hey gogopalehoes, I said you could have Izturis and Wood also, be happy that's a great deal on paper, you don't get a solid CF in Matthews that doesn't hit just right handed, yes there is Thome, but let's be real your only other guy who hits lefty is a catcher and a guy who plays out of position in Swisher, at least Matthews steals bases every year, is fast generally, is a MUCH better defender with a MUCH better arm, he makes your team better.

You're just being ridiculous with your White Sox Bias, Swisher and Crede together are like a .255 AVG/.322 OBP combined. That's doing it in my head as I figured 1778 is about 70% of 2586, then I took the difference of .247 and .259 and figured 70% of the way to Credes total since he's got more at bats, which would mean adding 8 points to Swishers AVG meaning they hit a combined .255, check it if you want.

Point being, Matthews is A MUCH BETTER player as he's only a little better offensively, BUT A TON more valuable defensively, since you have ZERO CF and 2 LF along with 2 3B. Crede is also gone after this season and there's no he'll see arbitration and Matthews will still be under control for three more years and he's a good clubhouse guy.

Saying my deal offering is crazy is like saying you wouldn't trade Michael Young and Gerald Laird for Hanley Ramirez. Stop with this Swisher and Crede are great crap already. If they're great then I should be able to send you Vidro and Sexson for Dye! Call up Ken, the paperwork will be there this afternoon, just don't wake me up from a reality where the M's have a capable RF!

I think you are arguing on a different level than me... You are arguing whether they are capable of SOMEDAY being great, good, or even just playable, but I'm saying right now, they are liabilities that could be answered at least to a respectable amount just by moving the guys around and improving 3B offensively. It's not even what Crede brings to the table himself, it's the fact that his ability to hit the 3 Run Homer is significant enough that they would be trying to get Vlad to chase bat pitches. Crede looks more incapable in Chicago with a middle of the order that includes Konerko, Thome, and Dye. The Angels I think will start losing more games because they lack the guy that will force other teams to pitch to Vlad.

“Crede and Swisher for Matthews? Two players that are better than him for less the cost? This man is on crack. At least AA tried.”

…Hehehe, yeah “guru” is an interesting one isnt he?

Well, if you werent aware before, atleast now you now that he’s just a complete tool and its not worth reading his consistent 3+ post/2-thousand+ word rants. I mean, I can sum them all up for you real quick ~ They generally start with something like “youre stupid”; after which he repeats the same sentence you didn’t agree with to begin with, makes some asinine comparison to the Mariners and how they are so much better, goes into a couple paragraphs on the Muppets (or something equally irrelevant) before coming back to a paragraph or two on how you live in your moms basement and proclaiming how smart he is. There will also always be a mention of me mixed in there as well; despite multiple people across multiple threads saying he’s a complete moron, I seem to have become the main object of his desire… “guru” is kinda like Steve Phillips, in grade-schooler form. And much like with Phillips ~ its best to just ignore him…