Jarrod Washburn Rumors

Does anybody know why Washburn was removed after 5 innings and only 75 pitches? He only allowed one run (on a home run).

He wasn't removed - gone 6 so far, coming back out to start the 7th.

Washburn's ERA+ the last three seasons:

2006 95
2007 100
2008 84

I don't see his ERA getting better in the best division in baseball. So if the sad and pathetic Mariners wish to ship him to the Bronx they'd better quit hoping they're going to get a decent prospect.

I have to say that the Mariners fans I have encountered online are some of the most ignorant fans I've ever seen.

***Last year tons of their fans told me that run differentials are meaningless (and they found out I was right).

***This year there's some idiot named Guru saying the Mariners have the best minor league system (Even though from 2006-2008 they've been ranked significantly lower than the Yankees.

I have never seen a dumber group of people; they deserve to root for a crap team like Seattle that's never been to a world series in their history.

So, I say "YAWN" as to Mr. Washburn. I'll take him for money and that's about it.

Jeb, you are an ignorant ass..

Making generalizations about other fans just shows how ignorant you are.....maybe you should stick with your day job as GM (You obviously hold your knowledge in high regard).

you might not know as much as you think you know, and evidently don't watch many mariner games......if the Mariner pitchers had even a league average defense behind them, they would have much better numbers.

I also like how you guys cherry pick stats to support an argument......talking about Washburn's near 5.00 ERA.....when its at 4.6 and dropping, he has had a very good season outside of the first 6 weeks (not that he's a CY candidate, but a solid #3-4)......using your rationale, Verlander, CC, and several others are crap judging by their earlyt season and overall numbers.
Again, i'll just say you, and a few others are pretty ignorant asses, having watched little or no Seattle baseball and then jumping to conclusions.....they actually have some talent that other teams want and need, but they just don't fit well together as a team.

Some of you guys are complete idiots.

Move on, don't ask for washburn....go grab someone else and try to pass off your minor league crap. maybe someone else will agree with you that Melky's fat ass, no speed and no power game is valuable. Maybe someone will agree that Gardner is more than a AAAA player.....maybe the Bucs will have another brain fart and take on some of your career minor leaguers for decent players.
Bavasi is gone, and hopefully Armstrong and Lincoln will follow soon.

Capper -

You're comment about Mussina is just plain stupid. Mussina has outpitched almost everyone in the AL this year. Washburn is a 4-5 starter on almost any contending team.

You look at Moose's numbers and tell me that Washburn is having a better year? Defensive errors do not go against a pitchers ERA or WHIP, or Homeruns allowed....

You comparing him to Moose this year is just as stupid as comparing him to Wang.

Whoa, I'm still shocked and mad the Yanks have no problem giving up Melky. Okay Melky is about a .270 hitter 10 homeruns 50-65 RBIs. Ok he's not such a great hitter but make no doubt he is only goin to get better. He's just 22 and I think is capable of hittin .290 with 15-20 homers a year. Maybe I'm overhyping him but I think its possible. Besides he has great defense and a cannon for an arm. So, to me his defense helps replace his numbers. you can't overlook that part of the game.

According to capper washburn's era is dropping as we speak. It is dropping at a rate of .15 run per hour. Eventually it will drop to a negative era. Washburn for CY Young!!!! This is Jarrod washburn guys! He is a serviceable #5. He is not Wang and I'm not sure what musina being old has to do with anything. So if mussina is old does that mean washburn will have a 2.00 era the rest of the year? Oh I see it now I didn't put two and two together. Mariners suck!! Their farm system is terrible. Their whole organization is in shambles and the best you guys can hope for is to cut salary. I am not a yankees fan but if this even requires melky I say walk away let te mariners have their ace washburn because having him seems to have helped them a lot. Mariner fans get real!!!

Capper: "...if the Mariner pitchers had even a league average defense behind them, they would have much better numbers."

*add some offense and you're absolutely right*

Jeb & JoeMorgan: You'd be ignorant to say the Mariners haven't had, at least, one of the top few core farm/scout systems in recent years: A-Rod, Felix H., Jose Cruz Jr., Adam Jones, Jeff Clement, c'mon guys... .

Washburn is worth it. So what if he has an "above average" contract for his numbers. The fact is it would be no skin off the Mariners' nards to keep Washburn this season and the Yanks are the ones hurting to replace Kei Igawa. I think the trade hasn't happened yet because NYY are too unwilling to get real themselves. If you want a #4 or #5 starter, why don't you use Igawa???

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/royals/story/722113.html

*sorry, Tim. this was worth sticking up in this thread, too.

Capper, you're wasting your time... This site is flooded with Yankee arrogance, go to the other thread and look at the combined numbers by Washburn this year vs. AL East and then look at Wang...

Technically Washburn hasn't had a bad start against the AL East. Jeb and his genius will tell you that, "I don't see his ERA staying down in the (as he calls it) superior division." However Washburn has had better success against the AL East than just about every other division in baseball, to the point that Wang has worse numbers this year against division foes on the whole.

Since most games are against their division AND all roads to World Series will go through TB or Bos, he's a better pitcher than Wang this year. Wang can't even pitch for the rest of the year, which gives Washburn an advantage obviously, but the fact that he has pitched better against division rivals Bos, TB, Bal, Tor, as a whole is HUGE, since those starts add or subtract a full game for your team!

Plus they're probably trading to save themselves a loss when they play the Mariners in a month as Jarrod has dominated their $200MM payroll, would that mean that Washburn's better than all the dumb Yankee fans are giving him credit for being, or does that mean the Yankees are really that bad?!

I mean domination by a soft tosser like Washburn has to signal skill on one person's part (Washburn) or failure by a team (Yankees). I think that today's 8 IP, 4H, 1 ER, 2 BB, 2 SO... ERA is no longer 4.75, it's 4.50, so he dropped his ERA another quarter run in one start and his higest was 6.99, and in 10 starts he's been able to -2.50 ERA with already almost 2 month gone when he started to turn his season around. That's more than a fluke... In his last 11 starts, Washburn has 7 QS, 3 NQS (near quality starts = either he met the 6+ IP, but gave up 4 ER instead of 3 OR he went 5, 5.1, 5.2, and gave up 3 ER or less). His worst start out of the 11, the only one that shouldn't be considered a great outing is 4 ER in 5.1 IP, which is 1 ER and 2 outs from being a quality start as well. Funny thing is that he had 1 out with runners at 1st and 2nd, when they pulled him in the 6th inning and then a walk and two singles led to those runs crossing, but he could've just as easily got out of that with only 2 ER scoring... He's truly been one of the best pitchers in baseball over the last 10 weeks of the season, which is a full 1/3 of a year, no fluke numbers there...

2.81 ERA over the last 11 starts

10 QS/6 NQS since the beginning of season.

Only been hammered three times, once by CLE, once by DET, and once by CWS.

The rest have all been 4 ER or less.

11 of his starts he's surrendered 2 ER or less.

3 ER in 3 more of his starts.

4 ER in 3 starts as well.
(IP total for those three starts at 5.1, 6, and 8)

He's failed to pitch into the 5th inning ONCE in 20 starts

He's completed the 5th inning in 18 of 20 starts.

Washburn has also been one of the most durable starters in the major leagues.

Short of an injury, Jarrod will reach 25 starts for the 8th season in a row and 29 or more starts for the 7th year in the last 8.

Also, the Mariners don't believe they'll be competing next year or they'll do it with youth... They have Rowland-Smith ready to dive into the rotation and he's been relatively dominant as a lefty, they have Bedard and Felix next season, include Silva who we DEFINITELY can't move before some point next season, and Morrow converting to the rotation and Dickey as the swingman out of the pen who can spot start with his knuckler, they don't have a use for Washburn... The Yankees are trying to get into the playoffs with the worst rotation in the AL outside of Baltimore, Kansas City, and Texas. If the Mariners weren't REBUILDING, they would keep him, speaks nothing about his value as a starter that they are trading him... In fact one writer made the comment about trading Ichiro and all the other veterans... That's how you get better, trade established veterans in 3 for 1 deals, so you get atleast 2 pieces for one for rainy day next year or further along, or you get salary relief so you can address a more pressing need if your farm system/team can fill the whole left by the traded player, in this case, it's more than obvious we can, not to meantion that Feierabend was dominating AAA before his injury with a 2.15 ERA. So there's another starter on the edge of being ready!

Just responding to the Yankee fan comment. I am a sox fan through and through and hate the Yankees more than just about anything. But Wang is not that similar to Washburn and is the far elite pitcher. Sorry, just really dislike being labeled a Yankees fan *shudders*

Coming into this season Mussina has had a worse ERA than Washburn in 3 out of the last 7 seasons, by the way, what about last years 5.15 ERA for Mussina?! Washburn has NEVER had a 5.XX ERA except for the 2nd year in the league when he was both a starter and a reliever and was shuttled between AAA and the majors! So last year Mussina was almost a run worse, but we forget those hiccups statistically and that aside from a 4.67, 4.64, and his current 4.50 (and dropping), ERA, Washburn has never posted higher than a 4.43 ERA in any season as a full-time starter... He's more than salary dump and just because the Yankees put a label on the transaction doesn't make them right. Sexson would've been salary dump, Vidro would be salary dump (pointless at less than 2.5MM), but Washburn clearly is not salary dump!

Jeo Morgan #1, Washburn's ERA has dropped 2.50 runs over 11 starts, which would be .23 points per start not .15, again under valueing Washburn. Moron.

I think we have some very good prospects in the lower levels, since gillick left our farm system has improved greatly.

Our farm system was actually rated much higher before the Bedard trade, which gutted our team of almost every MLB ready talent.

The Self Proclaimed "Guru" (aka - The Village IDIOT) says - "The Yankees are trying to get into the playoffs with the worst rotation in the AL outside of Baltimore, Kansas City, and Texas.

Joba - 3-3 2.30
Moose - 13-6 3.26
Andy - 12-7 3.76
Wang - 8-2 4.07 (will be back in 5 weeks)
Ponson - 6-1 4.02
Rasner - 5-7 4.83

Also, Hughes, Kennedy, Horne, Aceves in the wings.

Not only is NOT the third WORST....it's become one the BETTER ones and the reason the Yanks are winning.

Guru...you have proven to EVERYONE on here that you are infact, the Village Idiot. Please stop making a fool of yourself hourly with the 65 paragraph posts....saying that Jojhima has better stats than Jorge this year....saying that Washburn and Wang are similar...or any other absolutely ridiculous claim that even a 12 year old girl knows is total BS.

"Guru, saying that Washburn isn't a salary dump, totally disagrees with Ken Rosethal and Buster Olney. And those guys are GODS at what they do."

I wouldn't go around bragging about Olney or Rosenthal......talk about Village Idiots.

Jeb, actually, Jose Cruz Jr is still playing..

Yeah, I'm an idiot (rolls eyes).....you are the one here not quoting facts, using ERA and wins to judge pitching talent, and saying that errors and homeruns tell us about defense.....uh, ok.

you want to start tossing around isnults, that fine....we can talk about your $10 whore of a mother.......wanna talk baseball, thats fine too......problem is you don't seem to know anything about either one.

"Capper is just stupid - ignore him. He can continue to root for a team that's not committed to winning."

Sorry, we can't all be bandwagon fans!

Every team is committed to winning, the Mariner front office picked a poor GM, and several of us called them on that and have pointed out the problems over Bavidiot's term as GM.

As to quality of fans, head over to USSM.com and tell me Seattle has stupid fans.....I'll even spell it for you "USSM".

Again guys I'm not a yankee fan in the slightest. I'm a baltimore and atlanta fan! Just people disagree with you does not mean we all love the yankees!

Why would the mariners give away wash. If he's good enough to help the yankees then he's good enough to keep for next year. Melky's not much of an improvement over what the M's currently have.

Another thing for Capper,
"Defensive errors do not go against a pitchers ERA or WHIP, or Homeruns allowed...."

"You are correct, but when you take into account the defense behind him....and consider things like range, speed, etc....defense plays a huge part into those stats...which is why ERA and wins are awful statistics to judge a pitchers value by."

Washburn is a fly ball pitcher, not a groundball one like Wang. So a lot of his plays are going to be outfield ones, and at least Ichiro is a sick outfielder by defensive purposes. So the range and speed argument is not such a good one dude.

I love how seattle suddenly has the worst defense in the majors and Washburn would turn into Sandy Koufax in the bronx. Let's just send our entire farm system for him.

I really can't quit laughing over Jose Cruz, Jr. He's fine evidence of Seattle's current farm system (the one that's been consistently Ranked well below the Yanks for the last 3 years).

Guru and Capper
Sitting in a tree

Don't know baseball
just as dumb as can be

First off, I'm a diehard Mariners fan.

While the Yankees farm system is not one of the stronger ones in baseball because they have often traded away much talent (something they are trying to get away from), the M's farm system is one of the two or three worst in all of baseball. It's absolutely abysmal. We suffer from terrible front office leadership by Howard Lincoln and Chuck Armstrong. Until they go, our farm system will never be good and the M's likely won't as well.

Also Wang>Washburn; Dumping Washburn and Vidro on the Yanks would be great for the M's.

Yeah, I looked at the USS mariner website yesterday and today and the people on that site not only do not know baseball but insisted that washburn is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Also, they had CONFIRMED the deal yesterday (only of course there was no deal to cofirm). Bunch of know-it-all dummies.

Let's take John Sickels pre 2008 rankings
Joba-now in majors
Tabata-now with Pirates
Kennedy-injured, back now, value down a bit
Horne-down year for him (4.35 ERA, 1.6 WHIP)
Jackson-slightly down (.295/.375/.451)
Suttle-he's having a good year
Betances-(3.97 ERA, 1.35 WHIP)
Romine-decent year, little power yet
Montero-this is a rising star
McCutcheon-now with Pirates

That's ALL they've got though Know ID, that and the 1995 ALDS. We've won 4 WS titles since then and have never looked back.

The Bronx Bombers utterly dominated the M's in 2001. Yeah, they won 116 games, but we won 125 in 1998!!!

Yanks in the minors who can/have/or will contribute:

AAA - Bruney, Albaladejo, Britton, Kennedy, Hughes, Aceves, Horne, Cox, Carson, Miranda, Gardner, Gonzales

AA - Clagett, Melancon, Coke, Jones, Hacker, Wright, Whelan, A Jackson, Russo

A - Montero, Suttle, Romine, Laird, Cervelli, Ortiz, DeLaRosa, Betances (has a 3.62 NOT a 3.95 as misquoted)

Start with those studs and then get back to any Yankee fan on here. This list does not include anything below Charleston or guys injured like Brackman, H Sanchez or Grienke.

Yankees system is rated as #5 for a REASON....there is PLENTY of talent.

It's a good thing there isn't much generalization going on here. One person (stupidly) claiming the Mariners system is strong because they produced Jose Cruz, Jr. DOESN'T mean (Jeb) that ALL fans feel that way. Being a Mariners fan I couldn't disagree more with that the original poster said.

Claiming that the Mariners have the most unintelligent fan base based on two fans opinions is stupid. Because your team has had the most success in history doesn't reflect on your knowledge of baseball, so stop with your weak arguments over who is a bigger/smarter fan.

1. The recent posts on Washburn have been satirical meant to "pump up" his trade value.

2. W/L is pretty terrible, but ERA and WHIP, while flawed, are not terrible. Also, I would assumer most of the crowd here hasn't heard of WPA/Li or FIP.

3. Yes

5. Yes

7. Maybe

Let's not let this deteriorate into a steriods issue. That's all heresay.

Its all hearsay when it's guys on your team that are the accused.

Really? Arguing over what fanbase is smarter only dumbs us all down. Let the Yankees have Wash but not for free make them take Vidro. That's a good deal for the M's.

Sea - who exactly on the Yankees was accused?

4 players? Clemens, Giambi, Knoblauch and Pettite.

Pettite admittingly took is how many times? Besides HGH does next to nothing - now steroids are completly different.

But for you to be niave in thinking that 80% of baseball wasn't juicing/or on hgh is laughable. Canseco probably was right, which is sad...

The reason why the Yankees get to include their post season wins was because the 125 games is the most wins in a season/playoffs in baseball history; like the Mariners have the record for most regular season wins. The yankee record is a little bit more impressive because we were able to actually do something with it - not get pounced out in the first round when we did it.

SOME of you guys are just really i don't know.. maybe just jealous? Who knows.

YES. Let the Yankees take Washburn for free, and make them take Vidro as well. That would be a great trade for the Mariners, cause the Yankees are trying to make a great trade for the Mariners.

Keep it coming Mariner fans.

I love how guys on here use strictly opinion with ZERO basis in fact.

Scottiedawg says, "I think you'd be hard pressed to find a scout who think Bruney, Albaladejo, Britton, Aceves, Cox, Carson, Miranda, or Gonzales are much more than replacement level major leaguers"

Britton - 1.29 era with the Yankees this year. 3.19 career MLB era

Bruney - 1.59 era with the Yankees this year before getting hurt. 0.87 in 06'. Down year last year. Throws 96. Would be the 8th inning guy ahead of Fartsworth if healthy.

Albaladejo - 3.95 era with the Yankees this year. 2.89 in MLB Career (21 games) Was the longman before injury.

Aceves - 6-3 1.92 era this year. A Mexican league star. Maybe replace Rasner AHEAD of Kennedy. They like him that much.

Do any of them sound like "replacement level players"?? Ahhhh....NO.

I'm out for the night. Scottie, you're ok...but there are just waaaaaay too many flippin morons on here acting like they have ANY clue whatsoever.

Sorry my bad maybe M's should include Ichiro and offer to pay the remainder of A-rods contract

"However, it’s not uncommon for bad pitchers to have flukily high strand rates that significantly lower than ERAs, and vice versa. Jarrod Washburn’s 2005 ERA was almost completely due to his high strand rate, as he posted the highest LOB% in the American League. That hasn’t held true in 2006, and we’ve seen his ERA rise a full run because of it. So, when you find a pitcher who is stranding runners at an unexpected rate when compared to his talent derived by BB%, K%, and GB%, it is prudent to expect that rate to regress back towards a more normal rate in the future."

from USSM-- guru and rest of you, go read the post and maybe you will now understand why wang is so much better.

http://ussmariner.com/2006/08/29/evaluating-pitcher-talent/

The M's are not hurting for money no need to do a salary dump. They may not have Yankee money but they're well above average hence their recent payrolls

"How bad do the Yankees want Wash? The way he's pitching right now someone will step up and take a chance Philly? Tampa? or even Mets"

You could probably take Tampa off this list. They rotation is fine and don't room for Wash. They'll have to get rid of one of their starters to make a spot for David Price.

I agree with the Phils and Mets though.

Just saying no need for the M's to give him away. They have room for him next year

I thought the whole issue with the clubhouse chemistry earlier in the season was centered on Washburn though? Wasn't he the one who threw Johjima under the bus for his supposed bad game calling and how it was difficult to communicate with him.

What Yankees fans don't seem to understand about the Mariners is that we are not a poor team so it is not vital for us to dump Wash's salary. So it is only worth it for us if we get something in a trade. If Yankees don't want to get any thing fine. That's their call. I do think Wash can help the Yankees since he would be an upgrade over Rasner and probably Posnon.

SEAMARINERS85 I'm a big M's fan also but dont you see giving away the few players that are decent and signing slugs like Joh, Vidro,Sexson,Weaver,Silva,and then extending average players like lopez,and Yuni are why we are were we are. The best free agent this offseason would be to fire lincoln and bring back Gillick

As for Washburn, if he can hold on to what he's doing for two more months, we could trade him in the offseason and it would be anything but a salary dump, especially since teams like Milwaukee will be in a different position with FA leaving. Options will come that aren't there now and to feel obligated to make a move is just silly... To act like the Mariners are in the corner on this only illuminates your lack of knowledge if you think this... Washburn would offer salary relief, but he's far from being in Silva's situation. In fact with what Washburn makes, he becomes a strong possibility for an August trade as he'd probably clear waivers, and we aren't looking to get a player on the 40-man roster anyways...

Know ID yuh, definitely fits your intelligence. You do realize that even English speaking battery mates have communication errors, to think that it wouldn't be more pronounced without a common language to work from is just stupid as are most of your posts since they are I am great, you are stupid, without research, without founded fact, and your premiss for baseball knowledge is Mariners fans don't act like a bunch of asses in the stands?!

Brilliant, so because we don't throw our glove down after an inning like Reyes or give a dirty look at the catcher when we our self make a mistake in not catching a foul ball like Shelley, we must not be passionate players?!

Johjima is a great defensive catcher and is constantly improving, his issue started with Bedard because Erik has a different set of signs that he uses for whatever reason, maybe he has issues with his vision or something, who knows, but Felix has used Joh as his catcher and is one of the best pitchers in the league... Joh also is a .289 career hitter coming into the season and I think three years is a little long for it to be an exposing of his weaknesses as a hitter... More likely he's not dealing well with his extension and the backlash from the teammates as stated in articles about the clubhouse chemistry, plus with his defense being called into question, he's probably not as focused on his offense.

Finally, Jose Lopez is one of the best 2B in the AL, behind Kinsler, Cano, and Pedroia at this point. He's only hitting .300 on course for just shy of 100 RBI, and he's a good clutch hitter who plays solid defense and works harder than anyone else on the field in his spare time... He felt his defense was needing work earlier this year and went to the field for a few hours without being asked and took groundballs at 2B to get better. He has an insane work ethic, when was the last time a player chose to work on his defense when they had a free day to screw off?!

A fair trade would be Austin Jackson, who I don't see as being much different than Alex Rios on the high side and probably Jose Cruz Jr on the low side.

If they want to hold onto Jackson then it should be Gardner and a low level pitching prospect.

If they want to move Melky to make room on the MLB roster, than we'll take Melky with no salary obligation towards Washburn.

If it's one of the first two trades, than we cover 2MM from this season and 2MM from next season.

If the Yankees are so flush with prospects why do you care if they give up a promising prospect vs. a fringe prospect?! Exactly. Something doesn't pass the sniff test here, either there is a depth issue on the farm or NY is trying to steal a player for nothing.

BASEBALLGURU I hope your right about Joh Totally agree about Wash,to be honest jury is still out on Lopez and Yuni

It's not that the 2009 season is looking good, but we have August where he'll probably clear waivers. The winter when he'll have more value at the rate he's pitching. Next season at the deadline and again next August. We have 5 chances to get something better than nothing and money really isn't an issue, we aren't KC, FLA, TB, WSH, or OAK, we don't need to do anything... If it doesn't make us better than we should hold onto him and give fans a reason to come to games... He gives us a better chance to win than not getting someone who truly has a chance to help us at some point and that's still worth something... Remember when Abreu went to the Yankees and the Phillies almost won the east?! What was supposed to be a rebuilding effort has turned into them being the leader of the NL East for the last couple years. Nobody gave Baltimore a chance to do anything and they aren't exactly getting their sh*t kicked in, how about Florida?! Maybe a few moves change the chemistry of team and we do compete next year and we could have used Washburn, then what?! We gave him away for nothing?! This is just common sense, we need to get something that even resembles future prospect, not somebody that collects a minor league paycheck for three years and then is out of baseball... A pitch like Washburn deserves atleast that, especially considering it's not like we couldn't hold onto him and get two prospects next season since his ability to avoid injury guarantees Type B status and if he pitches low 4s, that makes him a Type A. Most pitchers don't accumulate the starts in two seasons he does as routinely they are injured from year to year, so he's going to get us more than what NY is offering whether through trade or arb.