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Let's kick things off with a link roundup.
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i think two HOF pitchers are goign to retire soon: Schilling and Glavine. Hope they get into the HALL first try!
Posted by: cubs land | August 19, 2008 at 09:26 AM
Tim,
I'm pretty sure the Rays would be on the list of teams Curt would be willing to go to. There was quite a bit of talk last year before he re-signed with the Sox that he was strongly considering signing with Tampa because he considered them a contender. Im sure this year has done little to change his mind on that.
Posted by: UConnHuskies | August 19, 2008 at 09:31 AM
derek jeter is a ny yankee for life I can't picture him on any other team ever ....
Posted by: BaseballFanatic40 | August 19, 2008 at 09:39 AM
this is stupid we all knnow that Jeter is going to retire as a Yankee!!!! Why are we even having this conversation
Posted by: Chris | August 19, 2008 at 09:40 AM
Mets should sign Al Reyes. They need all the relief they can get and he has had success as a closer.
Posted by: icedrake523 | August 19, 2008 at 09:42 AM
If Curt Schilling does opt to come back, he would make sense for the Brewers if they are unable to retain CC Sabathia and Ben Sheets. A rotation featuring Yovani Gallardo, Manny Parra, and the collection of Carlos Villenuava/Dave Bush/Seth McClung/Jeff Suppan would look a lot stronger with a veteran like Curt with many seasons of big league experience and certainly age up that rotation.
Posted by: SWish | August 19, 2008 at 09:51 AM
"this is stupid we all knnow that Jeter is going to retire as a Yankee!!!! Why are we even having this conversation"
Because it's still a valid question, especially with his eyebrow-raising drop in production this season.
Posted by: kermit | August 19, 2008 at 09:56 AM
Seriously, Jeter is a yankee for life, just like Favre is a Pac.... oh wait
Posted by: bs | August 19, 2008 at 10:01 AM
I second the Reyes to the Mets comment. They need all the help they can get, and he has experience as a back of the bullpen guy.
And if Favre can leave Green Bay to play for the Jets, then Jeter could definately leave Yanks, as weird and awkward as it would be. Considering the fact that his defense is poor, and his hitting has taken a step back this year, I wouldn't be shocked if they let him go. Well I'd be a little shocked
Posted by: scribbletone | August 19, 2008 at 01:01 PM
Jeter will stay a Yankee. I doubt they will have a shortstop to take over for him in 2 years.
Posted by: icedrake523 | August 19, 2008 at 01:54 PM
"Because it's still a valid question, especially with his eyebrow-raising drop in production this season".
"Eyebrow raising" is quite severe. He's hitting .295 this year and has played half the year with a hand injury. He's a lifetime .316 hitter.
Derek Jeter is a Yankee, a first ballot HOF'er and the captain. He's going nowhere.
Posted by: jjyankeesfan2 | August 19, 2008 at 03:33 PM
.295 is still a 30 point drop from last season.
It goes along nicely with his 30 point drop in OBP and 50 point drop in Slugging.
That's significant.
Posted by: kermit | August 19, 2008 at 04:03 PM
Yeah there is NO way in he'll that you can argue that Jeter hasn't dropped off. He's now one of the worst defensive starting shortstops in baseball, arguably the worst. Every single one of his hitting numbers has declined a good deal, and a he gets older his skills will continue I decline. He doesn't belong at shortstop now, so by 2010 if he's still in there I would expect him to really struggle.
He's still a good player, but he's undoubtedly one of the most overpaid players in baseball. It seems like a lot of his value to Yankee fans is nostalgic.
Posted by: scribbletone | August 19, 2008 at 04:24 PM
First....Jeter has been playing with a broken bone in his hand since he got hit by that Cabrera pitch. He's just kept his mouth shut about it.
Second...even with that hand injury, he's hitting:
.295 overall
.344 close and late
.311 RISP
.321 RISP w/2 outs
His overall BA is down from .316 to .295 SO FAR, but the rest of his numbers are fine.
As for the "worst defensive SS in MLB"...are you serious? lol Have you seen a game or are you just reading other Yankee hating posters? He's not Ozzy Smith, but he has only 9 errors the whole year. That's third BEST in ALL OF MLB behind only Rollins & Kalil Green & tied for the BEST in the AL with Young. He may get his 4th gold glove because of it.
Posted by: jjyankeesfan2 | August 19, 2008 at 04:55 PM
Kermit - Whether there is a drop or not wasn't the question. It was your "eye popping" comment that is not correct.
Don't know what team you are a fan of...but if every team's SS has an "eye poppingly off year" by hitting .295 and .344 close and late, I'm sure they'd take that. Eye popping would be if he was hitting .240 or doing what Cano did the first half of this year...swinging like Stevie Wonder.
Posted by: jjyankeesfan2 | August 19, 2008 at 04:59 PM
If you guys notice my username....you're going to have to shoot me to win this discussion!! LOL!!
Posted by: jjyankeesfan2 | August 19, 2008 at 05:01 PM
I third the Reyes to the Mets sentiment. Being 38, he's probably a tad craftier and sneakier than, say, Joe Smith.
Posted by: metssincekindergarten | August 19, 2008 at 05:35 PM
Jeter is fine as a shortstop. A 760 OPS is in the upper 3rd for his position. Ignoring his contract he would be an upgrade at SS for approximately 50% of ML ball clubs.
The problem is that he posted a 900 OPS in 2006, a 840 OPS in 2007, and now a 760 OPS. That's not the trend you want to see.
Now, throw in the fact that he is making $20m/year and you have one of the worst values in the game (compared to performance).
BTW - watching Jeter perform is not the only way to evaluate his defensive prowess. That's probably only slightly better than using errors as a way to gauge effectiveness. You can read Bill James as he goes over 4 independent measurements that review Jeter's defense. His conclusion is that Jeter is one of the worst fielding shortstops OF ALL TIME. Does he make flashy plays? Sure. However, that doesn't come close to offsetting the number of balls he doesn't get to.
You can read the article here:
http://www.billjamesonline.net/fieldingbible/jeter.asp
Posted by: bjsguess | August 19, 2008 at 06:02 PM
thanks for beating me to the punch on the whole Jeter's fielding thing. Glad someone came to my defense, Yankee fans will never back down on Jeter.
Using errors is one of the worst ways possible to judge fielding. What if I jus stood there and let a grounder three feet from me go right by? It's not an error, but it's still very poor fielding. The reason Jeter only has 9 errors is because his range is AWFUL, and he just simply isn't close to getting to a lot of balls. I believe more in the numbers that a baseball genius like James gives than what a guy sees through extremely pro-Yankee eyes.
Nobody ever questioned whether Jeter was "clutch", he is, but you cannot deny that his overall performance has declined. It doesn't matter what team you root for.
Posted by: scribbletone | August 19, 2008 at 06:35 PM
As I said, he's not going to be confused with Ozzy Smith...and yes, his range in not the greatest...however, he makes the plays he is supposed to make and will make the clutch super play when needed.
To say he's the "worst in baseball" is totally ridiculous whether you like him, the Yankees or not. I don't care about stat nerds, "range analysis" or any other BS geek ratings by some mathmatician with nothing better to do. The Yankees win 95 games a year with him at SS and it's surely not in SPITE of him. He has 3 Gold Gloves and one of the highest fielding percentages in the AL.
Is he the best defensive SS?? NO. However, saying he's "the worst" is plain F'ing stupid. You want the worst, look at Lugo who has 16 errors in 80 games and looks like Ray Charles out there half the time.
Posted by: jjyankeesfan2 | August 19, 2008 at 07:02 PM
"I believe more in the numbers that a baseball genius like James gives than what a guy sees through extremely pro-Yankee eyes".
I guess the baseball men granting him those three Gold Gloves were only looking through "extremely pro-Yankee eyes" too? Ahhh, no.
I guess he has the LEAST amount of errors because he ONLY gets to balls hit diretly at him? Ahhh, no. Ever watch a Yankee game? Ever watch Sportscenter? TWIB? If the answer is "yes" to any of the three, you'd know that he makes all the clutch plays. Last I checked, "clutch" plays aren't little league grounders hit right at you.
Posted by: jjyankeesfan2 | August 19, 2008 at 07:20 PM
Tied for least amount in the AL, sorry. Rollins and Green have less in the NL, although Rollins has only played in 80 games, Jeter 115.
Posted by: jjyankeesfan2 | August 19, 2008 at 07:22 PM
Actually yeah, Jeter won those gold gloves based off of popularity and reputation, rather than actual performance. He was once a good shortstop but he simply isn't close to that now.
Maybe because you only watch Yankee games, you haven't seen what a top defensive SS can do. Ever watched Adam Everett? Now there's some quality defense.
The logic that Jeter has few errors because he doesn't get to a lot of balls that a good shortstop would get to makes complete sense. I have no idea in hell of how you could disprove that without simply using personal opinion. I thought that people had stopped using errors to judge fielding a while ago, but I guess not. Anyone who really studies baseball will tell you that errors are a very poor indicator of ability. This isn't about Jeter, you need to understand how to accurate judge players to have an intelligent baseball conversation.
The thing that Jeter does have is good intangibles. They enable him to make some pretty stunning plays from the field, which would from the eye of a fan make him seem like a good fielder. What you can't tell simply from watching is how many balls he hasn't gotten to that a good shortstop would have.
Posted by: scribbletone | August 19, 2008 at 07:47 PM
Now, you were debating like a gentleman....and then you had to resort to insults for some reason. Keep it respectful if you wanna chat instead of becoming a frustrated little child because someone doesn't share YOUR opinion. That's what you're stating....just your opinion.
"What you can't tell simply from watching is how many balls he hasn't gotten to that a good shortstop would have"
According to whom...you? ANYONE can say, "oh, so and so WOULD have had that ball for sure"...but who the hell really knows???
Since obviously you're not getting my side of this....I NEVER said that Jeter was the BEST defensive SS. He isn't!! I simply am refuting your claim that he is "the worst".
Yes, errors aren't the ONLY way to judge defense, you are correct there. However, someone who consistantly comes up with the clutch plays and has the least amount of errors in the league...along with 3 gold gloves....won't be considered the WORST by anyone but a Yankee hater. It's common sense.
Furthermore, YOU started this discussion by bashing Jeter's D. Why? If I started it by boasting how wonderful his D is and that he's a gold glover again this year...that would make sense. I was suppoting his offense by saying that his .295 average doesn't constitue "an eyepopping dropoff". That's all.
Posted by: jjyankeesfan2 | August 19, 2008 at 08:20 PM
JJ..... if you don't care what the "stat geeks" say, or what "range analysis" means, then you have no business in this debate. You are a Yankee fan, who openly stated that the geek stats mean nothing, while your one stat, errors, means everything.
Also, what is it with your multiple references to blind black musicians?
Posted by: nrmax88 | August 20, 2008 at 05:45 PM
Look, Jeter is an okay shortstop, hes not that good. In every game I watched I see that he can make the hard plays but he sometimes cant make th easy plays. I dont know how many times he just threw the ball away throwing it to first, "it just slipped" they say, my ass. This guy could get away with murder in New York. He's hit into like 15 double plays this year and its always with guys on 2nd and first or first and third. Obviously Im not his biggest fan but hes alright.
Posted by: yankfan1 | August 21, 2008 at 08:06 AM
jeter will always be a yank.
and bs, jeter is more important to the yanks than farve was to the pacs
Posted by: tom | August 21, 2008 at 02:37 PM