Mariners Rumors: Ibanez, Beltre, Ichiro

"Ichiro Suzuki is not well-liked in the clubhouse. Is he a selfish player, or is he being treated unfairly because of the language barrier?"

It was interesting reading that part of the article. First, from all reports that I have heard, Ichiro speaks very good English and only uses his translator for interviews because he worries about screwing up on an odd question. Second, are they really complaining about Ichiro playing through pain? What the hell has the world come to if that is the case?

I don't see the Yankee's getting Ichiro without someone like Joba, Hughes, or Cano being included...and that being said, every team in baseball would take a look at Ichiro. Let's face it, Ichiro could help every team in the majors.

Yea, he speaks Fluent English...
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AhhPSY36Q8mQvILMBNE6olSFCLcF?slug=jp-ichirospeech071508&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Ichiro is also a huge rap/hip hop fan...He speaks English. Maybe the other players don't like him, because he's better than them?

The Mariners are a train wreck. Who cares what his team-mates think of him, if Ichiro can be swapped for 2 or 3 quality prospects it would be irresponsible for the M's front office not to do it. Bedard may be a non-tender candidate for crissake. This franchise is crying for a total rebuild.

Geoff Baker is looking more and more like a moron.

Isn't this the same guy that "defended" Carlos Silva when he called out the M's as stat-padders.

And, Dave Cameron's response is awesome. To both the Ichiro debacle and Silva calling out players as being "stat-padders".

melonis rex

Beltre is arguably the most undervalued player in the MLB. There isn't a better defensive 3rd baseman in the American League, with really only David Wright in the same defensive level. Beltre is stuck in Safeco field, which eats any attempt at right handed power. Beltre's splits home/away are insane; his away hitting is far superior.

Also, there is no language barrier. Ichiro is fluent in English, but avoids speaking it because of the insanity of the media. He speaks Japanese to the media to keep them away from lengthy translations.

Let Ibanez walk, keep Beltre, keep Ichiro unless you get an insane package back.

Redbirdfan: I'm sure the M's would listen if the Cards offered Rasmus with a lower prospect or two...I'm just not sure what the package would have to include. Tony would love to have Ichiro hit leadoff or second; scratch that, Tony would probably bat him cleanup. Personally, I would love to see Ichiro wearing the birds on the bat.

"Beltre is arguably the most undervalued player in the MLB. There isn't a better defensive 3rd baseman in the American League, with really only David Wright in the same defensive level."

I like Beltre, but Rolen and Lowell have to be considered better defensively... and thats only in the AL alone.

"Beltre is arguably the most undervalued player in the MLB. There isn't a better defensive 3rd baseman in the American League, with really only David Wright in the same defensive level. Beltre is stuck in Safeco field, which eats any attempt at right handed power. Beltre's splits home/away are insane; his away hitting is far superior."

Beltre is FAR from undervalued. His offensive numbers scream Joe Crede with a better health record. That doesn't justify being the third highest paid 3B in the game. Further, his defense is excellent, but is certainly not the best in baseball and the numbers say he gets creamed by Rolen. Hell, Blake DeWitt had better numbers than Beltre this year. As for Lowell, he and Beltre have a similar +/- and RF while Lowell makes fewer errors. Who is the better defender?

As for the home/away stuff, Beltre's splits don't suggest that power is his issue. His problem has been flat out poor hitting.

"You do realize Lowell has often been compared to Brooks Robinson in terms of defensive capabilities."

That is a bit extreme, but Lowell is indeed one of the best in baseball today at his position.

"As for Ichiro, whether its true or not, I'll I've ever heard is he's a selfish player because he refuses to sacrifice when necessary."

When you think about it, does that really matter? Ichiro, given how much of his game is mental, probably feels he is better off using his bat control to hit a swinging bunt to move guys over than laying down an actual bunt.

"When you think about it, does that really matter? Ichiro, given how much of his game is mental, probably feels he is better off using his bat control to hit a swinging bunt to move guys over than laying down an actual bunt."

I didn't mean sacrifice as in sacrifice bunt, more in placement of hitting and accepting the tradition role of lead-off hitter, which is less about getting on base and more about forcing the starter to show most of their arsenal on the first hitter. Then again, the way he treats being a lead off hitter theoretically gets good results. In any case here's an interesting article on the matter: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3609799

"That is a bit extreme, but Lowell is indeed one of the best in baseball today at his position."

Not my words, I've heard it before. Either could be true, I never saw Robinson play. I believe Lowell is the only active player with a higher fielding percentage than Robinson (who holds the record). He also has a great zone rating. But I consider him great mostly from watching him play. I've seen him make plays that no one in the league should make.

The fact that you just said Troy Glaus is in the discussion kind of kills your point. Fielding percentage doesn't mean a thing.

Anyway, without having seen the metrics in a while (which aren't perfect, and no one will admit they are) I'm inclined to put Beltre and Longoria at the top (in any order) as far as AL third basemen go. Lowell seems like he's tailed off a bit, but he used to be as good as it gets. I want to say the same for Rolen, but honestly I haven't seen him play much this season so I'm not sure.

Either way, I agree with the sentiment that Beltre's contract is reasonable, and most of the people following the Mariners (besides Homers) agree. He's a very good hitter and has been extrememly unlucky this season (whether you're looking at the advanced stats or if you've just watched him this year). He's been terribly injured throughout most of his Mariners career, especially this season, but has played despite the pain. This season he had bone spurs in the ankels, horrible shoulder problems that barked at him with every swing of the bat, and a torn ligament in his thumb that also hindered him. And those probably aren't the only injuries, as he rarely lets management or the media know. That he plays at the level he does despite the pain and despite Safeco Field dragging down his stats (look at the home/away splits.. he's an all-star on the road) plus the top notch defense make him worth every penny. Add on to that that if Seattle did the whole team captain thin he would be the unanimous choice for it.

baseballismyly4e-

Beltre is amazing and a GREAT defender signed to a VERY reasonable contract. I'm not arguing that. Keeping Beltre would be in the M's best interest ONLY if they have a good chance of resigning him. Beltre being represented by Boras doesn't help either. Offer him a contract this offseason. If he doesn't accept, trade him for prospects. The M's farm system NEEDS it, especially with guys like Adam Jones and Chris Tillman gone. Face it, the M's aren't contending in '09.

"Beltre is amazing and a GREAT defender signed to a VERY reasonable contract."

Dude, there is nothing reasonable about Beltre's contrat. Beltre is paid $13 million a year to be a less injury prone version of Joe Crede. Brandon Inge's numbers, aside from this year, are not that far off and he makes significantly less money.

"The fact that you just said Troy Glaus is in the discussion kind of kills your point."

Glaus had a better +/- than Beltre last year. Their RF/9 this year is roughly the same, yet Glaus has made fewer errors. That means Glaus gets to more balls and boots fewer of them.

"fukudome works on one level (japanese market)"

Fukudome and Ichiro are not interchangeable. The marketability is kind of like swapping Philip Seymour Hoffman for George Clooney

actually i said I wanted a piece of felix pie (i know it's not pronounced that way but who can resist a cheezy pun)
but that's also my point: this is is a tricky mess for the sub-mariners

and hey – phillip seymour hofman is an excellent actor!