Offseason Outlook: Atlanta Braves

Matt Diaz seems like a decent candidate to be non-tendered. He has health issues, is going to get a sizeable raise, won't be starting, is limited defensively, and just isn't that great.

The Braves have guys in Anderson and Blanco who seem to be just as useful as Diaz. The Braves will almost certainly get a left fielder and with his defensive limitations, it just doesn't make sense to spend a couple mil on him.

"The Braves would be selling low on Francoeur. Would swapping him for Brian Bannister make sense?"

Was this a serious comment? Really?

Bannister will be 28 next year, and this year has a 5.77 ERA with a 108/55 K/BB ratio in 171 innings. He's basically an inning eating five starter.

Jeff Francoeur was one of the best prospects in baseball and had two solid years with the Braves before crashing this year. He's still an extremely talented player with an upside that far exceeds that of Bannister. Banny sucks. Just no.

On the other hand though, the Edwin Jackson suggestion could have some legs to it. You know the Rays wouldn't mind getting their hands on Francoeur, a young and extremely talented RF with some good power potential. An outfield of Crawford/Upton/Francoeur would be quite good on defense, and it would give the Rays potentially another impact bat in their order.

The Rays can afford to give up Jackson, who is just 25 and finally has his performance beginning to catch up to his stuff. He's still a little wild, but he's managed to harness his stuff enough to be a solid 4 starter in the AL. With continued improvement and a move to an easier league/division, he could easily post some damn good numbers in Atlanta. The Rays probably wouldn't miss him too much, since they got that David Price guy..

Just what the Royals need. Another right fielder with a sub .300 OBP. And it's not like they're an organization that has any sort of track record with improving their players plate discipline.

If the Braves trade Kelly Johnson and keep Francoeur, they'll officially be the Pirates of the NL East in my eyes.

Francoeur's ceiling, with his lack of walking ability, is pretty much the same area of OPS that Johnson has put up in 2007 and this season. What's it say when your right fielder is a worse offensive player than your second baseman?

Prado and Infante are not viable everyday players.

Fire Omar Minaya. Bannister for Burgos was the worst trade ever... oh wait.

I would be thrilled if the Braves traded Frenchie for Brian Bannister.

The Braves are weak at a lot of positions. I wouldn't rule out them trading Kotchman either, as he hasn't been the jewel they expected so far. I can see Kotchman, Kelly Johnson, and Francouer all be tossed around, considering how weak they've performed this season. I'm expecting, and hoping, that they keep their quality backup/bench players, b/c they're very good bench players - they've just had to start so often this season (Infante, Norton, etc).

I think that a good chunk of that $40 million should go to revamping the infield as opposed to starting pitching, although they do need some pitching help too.

Hm, this is interesting, Braves actually have a very solid core and are close to contending next year. Their infield is set. I dont think Dunn is the right player to go after, Abreu + Ibanez would be better imo. The main focus has to be SP though, Smoltz should be back and Im sure they will target Garland, Lowe as well.

The Braves look headed for a steep fall, in my opinion. Francoeur just hasn't cut it. I don't think he'll ever have a good enough batting eye to come near his potential. Chipper & McCann are first rate, of course, though Chipper's health is always an open question. But the other regulars are only decent or worse. The pitching doesn't excite in any way. If the Orioles had this team in the A.L. East, they'd finish 45 games out of first (okay, I exaggerate). It be the National League, the Braves could manage with a few shrewd acquisitions to be a .510 team, but I don't see them being anything really competitive at all.

Carl Crawford is not a free agent...the Rays have options the next two years: 2009: $8.25M ($2.5M buyout). 2010: $10M ($1.25M buyout). In essence...to avoid buying him out, the Rays would pay him an extra $5.75M for 2009 and 8.75 in 2010...a guy like him should definitely have those options picked up. Honestly i think they should look at Brian Giles as a possible left fielder (in a trade), but that's my opinion.

#1.
Sign Michael Barrett to be our backup catcher. Just a couple years ago this guy was an all-star caliber starting catcher, hitting over .300 with pop. He obviously struggled in 2007 with the Cubs, and they traded him away because of his tiff with Zambrano. He's struggled badly in limited playing time this year. I say we offer him a job to come here and restablish his value playing behind McCann. From his point of view, this makes sense as it could lead to him getting a starting role elsewhere in 2010. For us, Barrett should at worst be better than Sammons and Corky Miller. I'd also hate to see a young player like Sammons sit on the bench 140 games a year. He should be playing everyday in AAA to hopefully keep improving his hitting, which is pretty weak.

#2.
Sign Edgar Renteria, under the provision that he move over and play 2nd base for us. Edgar has struggled greatly in Detroit this year. He was arguably never better and (from what I remember) never happier than when he was here in Atlanta. With his poor 2008 season, there's little reason to believe Detroit will pick up his 2009 option, which is $12million. We could probably sign Edgar at a very reasonable contract, and he is still only 33 years old next year. As far as I'm concerned, that should mean he's by no means over the hill and should have several more years of top-tier production left in him, this season not-withstanding. Edgar is also a mentor for Yunel Escobar, and was very influential to him when they were together. Yunel spent the entire offseason working out with Renteria, despite the fact that he had just taken Renteria's job away from him. That shows you the classiness and leadership Edgar possesses. I'd love to get him back on the team to help turn us around and be there to help lead Yunel back on track.

#3.
Trade Kelly Johnson for a guy already mentioned in this thread, Ian Snell. Problem is the Pirates have Freddy Sanchez at second base, although he's struggled this year and they might be looking for an upgrade in Johnson. If they're plan is to hang on to Sanchez at second base, this could easily become a 3-way trade, sending Johnson elsewhere and someone else to Pittsburgh. Could Colorado work? I'm not sure about their prospect depth at 2B, but right now it looks like they could take an interest in Kelly Johnson. The Cardinals and Brewers could both definitely be involved as well.

#4.
Resign Will Ohman. He said he wants to stay, and we have lots of money. Lets not play games here.

#5.
Sign Adam Dunn to bat 5th and protect McCann in the lineup. This will also take less pressure of Kotchman and Francoeur, who are going to need to come around and be strong for us in the bottom of the order.

#6.
Sign Derek Lowe if possible. He should be a cheap SP alternative with younger front-line guys hitting the market in Sabathia, Sheets, Burnett, Oliver Perez and Dempster. He'll be 36 years old next year, but has been the measure of consistancy, posting ERA's right around 3.50 in each of the last 4 seasons, while being right at 200 or more innings in 2005-2007 (this year he's at 201.1) so far. His WHIP this season (1.14) is also the lowest it's been in the big leagues since 2002, which should indicate he's far from slowing down.

Ideally, I'd love to drop big money on a Sabathia or a Sheets. But I'm not at all convinced we'll be able to get them. Also, even with them, I'm not at all convinced we'd be winners with them on the club in 2009. It's tough to be better than Hudson was for us this year, and we weren't winning when we had both Hudson and Jurrjens at the top of the rotation (plus a Mark Teixeira). So why should we expect to win with Sabathia and Jurrjens? I doubt we would. So lets not waste the money on big-time FA just because. Lets get quality guys who are cheaper, use the money to resign Jurrjens, and Gonzalez and possibly others long-term.

#7.
Sign Darryle Ward to be our bench first baseman and primary power pinch hitter.

#8
Sign Mike Hampton to an incentive based contract, roughly $1-2 million as a base, up to $5-6 million should he give us 200 innings.

---------------------------

Projected roster:

Lineup:

1. CF - Gregor Blanco / Josh Anderson (one could be traded during ST)
2. 2B - Edgar Renteria
3. 3B - Chipper Jones
4. Ca - Brian McCann
5. LF - Adam Dunn
6. SS - Yunel Escobar
7. 1B - Casey Kotchman
8. RF - Jeff Francoeur

(I'd like to see Jordan Schafer on the team and in center, but without a legitimate leadoff man outside of Blanco, and I don't know if Schafer could leadoff or not, but I'm more comfortable with Blanco. He does his job and gets on base a ton, and has the speed to steal when Bobby lets him and at the very least he puts pressure on the pitcher and the catcher with every pitch they make to not bounce anything.

That lineup, while I wouldn't say "stacked," is also very well balanced top to bottom. The last 3 guys in the order "Escobar, Kotchman, Francoeur" all have the ability to be very good hitters, and could easily hit in the top 5 spots in many batting orders. Obviously, Francoeur is a bit of a wild card, as we can't have him endure another season like this one. But it's also quite possible all three of these guys could hit .300 with some reasonable pop (about 10-15 HRs for Esco and Kotch, 15-20 for Jeff, although maybe a .300 season with 15-20 HR's is asking for too much of a bounce-back after his horrible 2008).

Bench:

1. Ca - Michael Barrett
2. IF - Martin Prado
3. UT - Omar Infante
4. LF - Matt Diaz
5. 1B - Darryle Ward

Rotation:

1. SP - Derek Lowe
2. SP - Jair Jurrjens
3. SP - Ian Snell
4. SP - Mike Hampton
5. SP - Morton / Reyes / Campillo (whoever wins it in ST)

Yes, on paper this rotation ain't exactly all-star caliber. But our rotation was supposed to be all-star caliber this year and look how that turned out. Besides, both Jo Jo and Charlie have shown they have the capability to doinate at the MLB level. The only way they can do that more consistently is if they keep getting opportunities. We can't just expect everyone to be Jurrjens and become great right away. The top 3-4 should be plenty dependable. None are true aces, but both Lowe and Jurrjens are as solid #2 pitchers as you'll find, and they can win in duels against another team's ace any day of the week. Ian Snell has fallen from grace this year, but he has the stuff (and success in 2007) to make me believe he can come back to form. Mike Hampton has shown plenty of flashes of his old self, and should be a very good #4 pitcher if he can only stay healthy, something that he finally looks capable of doing. A 3.50 to 4.00 ERA for him seems reasonable to me if he stays healthy. If Reyes or Morton can tap into their frontline potential, then our rotation could be stacked. If not, it will likely be a revolving door between those three. Campillo I honestly thought would stick as a great pitcher for us, but it appears his pinpoint control is fading just a touch, and the big-league hitters are no longer baffled by his straight 87 mph heater. In a bright spot, Tommy Hanson and Todd Redmond should be knocking on the door at some point next year, if not right away.

Bullpen:

1. CL - LHP - Mike Gonzalez
2. SU - RHP - Rafael Soriano
3. SU - RHP - Peter Moylan
4. TR - RHP - John Smoltz
5. MR - LHP - Will Ohman
6. LR - RHP - Blaine Boyer
7. LR - RHP - Jeff Bennett

Moylan will be back sometime around May-June, but Gonzo and Soriano will be good out of the gate, and Smoltz has made every indication that's he's going to pitch for us next year, so I think he'll be good out of the gate. How nice will it be to bring Smoltz into those critical situations where the game is on the line in the 7th, 8th, or 9th inning? Use him when we need him the most, let Gonzo get the glory of racking up the typical 9th inning save.

I'd doubt that a package not centered around Heyward, Hanson, or Freeman would even start the discussions. I'm not trying to argue, but you have to be a little more reasonable when considering a frontline starter who is locked up for about $2/yr for the next 3 years. He could command a ridiculous bounty.

1) Burnett/Sabathia/Sheets are too expensive for Atlanta. They'll make a deal or two, but not one including those.

2) Why are Giants fans so willing to part with Matt Cain? I mean, I haven't seen him pitch this year, but he's got an ERA of 3.81 with 176 K's in 204 innings... sure he's 8-13 right now, but he pitches for the Giants, and it's hard to have a winning record when you have no one hitting for you... I'd think you get a slugger in your lineup and his pitching stats get a lot better! Why part with him?

Andy, The rotation I mentioned is still quite young. Lowe is 36, yes, but he's not mid-40's *coughGlavineSmoltzcough* Garland is 29, and the other three are pretty young as well.

ytBrady, do you think Atlanta's seriously going to spend the kind of money you're suggesting? Barrett will cost us around $3mm per, if I had to guess. Renteria would be in the $6-7mm per range. Dunn's salary is expected to be astronomical, and do you really think he's gonna be happy "protecting" McCann? He wants to be the star wherever he goes, and if you put him second fiddle to McCann, he'll become the same hitter he was when he was protecting Griffey. And anyone wanting to sign Hampton to any kind of deal is flat out moronic. Hey, why don't we go ahead and round out the rotation with Carl Pavano and Mark Prior? We can spend $50mm on each and they'll never throw a pitch for us!!

cycub, thanks for pointing out that Crawford isn't a FA. I'd forgotten about the options. Helluva thought, though.

I think a lot of you are severely underestimating how much payroll the Braves will have to use this upcoming offseason. Somewhere in the neighborhood of $40 million, plus promises from ownership to increase payroll, and a deep farm system to trade. The Braves are looking to contend next year, not continue to rebuild.

They are set to acquire several quality players, both through trades and free agency. They need to take a serious look at Manny Rameriz, as he will greatly benefit the Braves in a number of ways (power, merchandise, etc), they'll be able to afford him, he won't command a long enough contract to block any of the prospects, nor will it take prospects to acquire him. Our first round draft pick is protected, so now is the time to sign an A-type free agent.

As for the pitching, I'd love to be able to say they'll sign Sabathia, Sheets, or Burnett. But the Braves don't like giving long deals to pitchers, so unless they sign for around 4 years, I expect them to sign a mediocre innings eater like Lowe or Garland - who won't command lengthy contracts.

Bobby Cox said two quality starting pitchers, and the Braves definitely have the means to acquire another which ever way. The Braves can package a deal around several prospects, even though many Braves homers forbid trading Heyward, Hanson, Freeman, Schafer. Sorry fellas, but it takes talent to get talent and we're priveledged to have several top prospects. We can afford to give up one to get proven Major League talent. I agree with Heyward though, he's about as untouchable as you can get. The Braves need pitching depth in Hanson, so I think he'll stay around longer, so that leaves Schafer. We have Gorkys Hernandez right behind him in the depth chart, so he's the most expendable. Packaged with other blocked prospects, Brandon Jones and Brent Lillibridge, and that's a serious package that can acquire a quality player.

As for trading Jeff Francoeur, get real. Didn't you guys ever take a single business class? You don't sell low. Francoeur's upside far outweighs his trade value - he won't be traded.

Kelly Johnson had a decent year, but the Braves expected more. He still has good upside, and he hits very well for a second baseman - that's value on the trade market. Many teams would want him, but if he's traded by himself, he'll only be traded for prospects. I don't see another team giving up a quality Major Leaguer for him, but that doesn't mean he can't be packaged with a Brandon Jones to acquire someone.

Let's not forget, that even after all that projected signing and trading, the Braves still have plenty of prospects and money to spend. It should be an exciting offseason for Braves fans.

Juice,
Of course Cain would be great, thus my point about me wanting to see him on the Braves, but the point remains that the Giants front office can and will ask a lot for him. Its very telling that Cain has not once been actually made "available". The Braves have some untouchable prospects, and they will remain untouchable. Thats just the way it is, the Braves won't be looking to fill many spots, especially a key spot in the rotation, when they can do so by spending just money and not prospects.

C - Clint Sammons - $400K (should be in AAA for abs)
2B - Kelly Johnson - $430K+ (Young, cheap, hopefully getting better. Only trade for #4 or #5 starter)
IF - Martin Prado -$400K (trade bait)
IF/OF - Omar Infante - $1.4MM+ (love him as utility player)
LF - Matt Diaz - $1.225MM+ (trade or dump)
CF - Josh Anderson - $400K (battle for center)
RF - Jeff Francoeur - $460K+ (2 out of 3 ain't bad, deserves another year)
OF - Gregor Blanco - $400K (battle for center)
OF - Brandon Jones - $400K (trade or AAA)

SP - Jair Jurrjens - $400K (Lock)
SP - Jorge Campillo - $400K (Lock)
SP - Jo-Jo Reyes - $400K (The next 3 will be fighting for last spot)
SP - Charlie Morton - $400K
SP - James Parr - $400K

RP - Rafael Soriano - $6.1MM
RP - Mike Gonzalez - $2.3625MM+
RP - Blaine Boyer - $400K (trade or dump, or limit to 60 innings)
RP - Jeff Bennett - $400K (long relief)
RP - Manny Acosta - $400K (decent when healthy)
RP - Buddy Carlyle - $400K (long relief)
RP - Jeff Ridgway - $400K (trade or dump)

Would love to see Smoltz as SP, but really should be in the pen fighting for closer role (same goes for Glavine minus closer role if they choose). Echo the suggestions to get Lowe and Garland. I am warming up to the idea of Dunn in LF, downside is he bats left. Thus SP and LF are filled, those are the only true holes. Blanco has been ok in center, but if Anderson can hit close to .300 I'd like to see it. Schafer should get a look as well. Very competitive team if they acquire two SP and get power in LF. With the braves filling these 3 spots with veteran players it will eat into that $50 mil quick, thus Sheet, Burnett and CC will get big bucks from NY.

Ugh... All of you guys wanting the Braves to sign Sheets/Burnett/CC are scaring me. CC wants too many years and too much money, and does anyone remember that Sheets and Burnett are constantly on and off the DL? After Mike Hampton and our whole rotation this year, I don't want another pitcher who has ever even had a hangnail.

Repeat after me: Lowe and Dunn, Lowe and Dunn, Lowe and Dunn... then just sign a CF who can work like Kotsay was supposed to this season, to fill the hole until Shafer is ready.

There is no need to trade Kelly Johnson, and why would they? He's a good hitter for a 2B, gets on base well, and his D finally came along this year. They should hang on to him as long as they can.

"I just think Bannister has shown what he is and it's not terribly impressive. He won't walk a lot of guys but he still gets hit pretty hard and seem like a 5.00 ERA kind of pitcher. If Francoeur can even get back to what he was in 06-07 he would be more valuable than Bannister, and considering his age and tools he should bounce back somewhat."

I actually think both of those guys have performed nowhere near their potential, and for completely opposite reasons.

Bannister over thinks everything about his game. While being educated about hitters and situations is great, going over every single twitch over and over again has really hurt him.

On the other hand, Francoeur has not figured out that he can't rely on his natural ability alone. The guy is naturally so talented, he gets incredibly sloppy and impatient. He needs to develop a better eye and cleaner mechanics with his swing and think more about what he is doing.

"How about Mark Kotsay?"

How about a Mark Kotsay-type? :-P

Francouer is not a good hitter and has never been. Talented hitter? Yes. Good bat speed? Yes.

But he has a long swing, terrible pitch recognition, and no approach. Even when he hit 28 HRs or whatever he still had this

I'm a firm believer that pitch recognition/selection for a hitter is almost a 6th tool. It's hard to develop for guys that are complete hackers early in their career

Anyone else notice that Hampton is quietly putting together some nice numbers? I think we can safely assume Jair, Jorge, and Hampton have rotation spots next year. Not a bad 3-4-5.

think that Atlanta should consider trading for Andrew Jones, paying 1/3 of his contract and 2/3 by the dodgers who the dodgers would be certainly ? willing to part with. Think that Andrew's return to atlanta would be a more relaxing environment for him. could give atlanta some stabililty in the outfield if andrew returns to form.

"I'd doubt that a package not centered around Heyward, Hanson, or Freeman would even start the discussions"

I already stated that I'm sure you would want more than my offered package, but from a Braves perspective, I couldn't afford to give more away. If we let Hanson, Freeman or Heyward go, we'd really be hurting our future interests in a big way. And after dumping Salty and many more last year, that's something we just can't afford to do.

AA- Why did you just quote everybody and follow it with a remark only for the final quote?

I'm having a hard time keying up the value for kelly. can any of the braves fans put together an imaginary package out of the cardinals system which would be adequate?

Andy, I've already given you a reason.
"It would be stupid of Atlanta to throw all of that money at one free agent signing thinking that is what will turn the team around (See Jose Guillen in KC)"

No team in their right mind (yes, that includes the Yankees) will throw money at Sabathia and Dunn. No team can be fixed with one free agent signing. And I'm sorry, but Atlanta doesn't stand a chance against the big market teams on Japanese players. The only reason Seattle gets them is so they can be closer to home. Other than that, where do they go? New York, Boston, Chicago.

And until CC can pitch twice every five days, you will not sell me on this idea.

Hammondsbird: How about Chris Perez and Jess Todd

Wait, what? Renteria? Why in the bloody heck would the Braves pay to bring Renteria back? That is insane.

YT... Don't question my baseball intellect. I am a huge baseball fan. Greatest sport ever. HOWEVER... I am also looking at this from a business standpoint, because let's face it- owning and operating a team is a business. So, from a business standpoint...
Would you hire a guy who is going to bring you 35+ home runs while increasing your strikeout total by God knows what, put him in a position where he's not going to be happy (I believe it was you saying he should protect McCann in the lineup) and OVERPAY him for all of these things? No. In fact, if you know all of these things in advance (which we do) you don't offer him the job to begin with.
In this next passage, the "clients" are referring to starting pitchers.
You are looking at one client (CC) who is going to cost you $25 million per year. He's young and one of the best, but he's only good to you every fifth day. Then you have two clients (Lowe/Garland), together costing you no more than $25 million per year. One of the two clients will be around for a few years, but the second is young and has only begun to shine, and he's the kind of guy you could build your company (rotation) around for years. You can buy one, or you can buy two. Same price. You decide.
Now enough with the business metaphors as I have started to bore everyone, including myself. You mentioned Teixeira. I have no problem bringing him back, even at the amount that he'll more than likely request. HOWEVER, as down as I am on Kotchman, we have bigger problems than first base.
Offer a 4yr/$40million deal on Burrell or a Burrell-type for LF.
Offer a 3yr/$36million deal for Lowe (throw in an option that vests based on innings pitched in the 3rd year.)
Offer Garland 4yr/$28mil, and for the sake of doing so, Barrett as you suggested at 1yr/$1mil. Maybe try again for a Coco Crisp trade to get some speed at the top of the lineup. Offer Smoltz a 1yr/$1mil with incentives. Offer Glavine Roger McDowell's job as pitching coach. And throw $5mil per year for Ohman.
ALL OF THOSE DEALS add up to a shade over $36 million. This gives wiggle room in the negotiations. Trade KJ and/or Diaz and/or Mike Gonzalez to patch any holes you may have.
Your opening day roster looks like:
C McCann
1B Kotchman
2B Lillibridge
3B Chipper
SS Escobar
LF Burrell
CF Crisp
RF Francouer
Bench: Blanco, Anderson, Infante, Barrett
SP Lowe
SP Garland
SP Jurrens
SP Reyes
SP Smoltz/Campillo
Bullpen: Ohman, Soriano, Boyer, Carlyle, Acosta, and Campillo/Smoltz (whoever isn’t the 5th starter)

So who would be our long-term 2B if we trade Kelly and sign Renteria? Not saying I don't like the idea, maybe we could work out a package for Magglio and Renteria.

I think FW will surprise everyone this offseason.

I'm going to guess that odds of the Braves trading Mike Gonzalez are about the same as their odds of trading Brian McCann this offseason....less than zero.

I disagree on Gonzalez, I think he's expendable if the braves keep Ohman. Although if they go anywhere near the 5mil mentioned above then they're nuts. I'd like to see them keep both, but if Gonzo can bring a good return then I think he's gone.

I also hate the Renteria idea, would rather see Prado out there anyway. Renteria is getting older and more injury prone, and I think atl has had there fill of that this year.

And to everyone that thinks Francoeur sucks because he's got bad plate discipline: I guess Vladamir Guerrero sucks too, because his plate discipline is worse than Francoeurs.

whoa, vtbrady
kelly johnson for matt cain?
kelly johnson for ian snell?
how about kelly johnson for cano and a-rod.
and phil hughes.
dude, he's KELLY johnson not magic johnson

"but if Gonzo can bring a good return then I think he's gone."

I don't. I really don't. The Braves shot down every Gonzo rumor at the July trading deadline. They seemed pretty adament about liking Gonzalez and keeping him as their closer of the future. And who do they have to replace him? Ohman? Please. Soriano? Health is an issue...same with Smoltz.

I think it is way more likely that the Braves sign him to a two-year deal like they did with Soriano last season than trade him. I really do.

All the debate over 2b if my options were Kelly, Martin, or Edgar..I choose Kelly.

He was bad in 2006, average right fielder in 2007 and awful this year.
Pat Burrell '08 .252avg,32HR, 81RBI
Jeff '06 (when he sucked) .260avg.,29HR,103RBI
Does this mean Jeff is worth $10 mil if he returns to his sucky form?? Or does that Burrell is overpaid, for those that want him.

Bullpen has too many questions from injuries, Gonzo can't go.

OK heres my thinking/wish list

1) sign Lowe
2) sign OLiver Perez
3) once this is done get nuts and get MATT CAIN

Rotation would be outstanding.

4) Lowe and Perez would cost you about 30 mill tops so that leaves you with 10 million Then sign Juan RIvera to play left field for 5 million

1)Blanco/Anderson?schafer
2) escobar
3) jones
4) mccann
5)Rivera
6)cotchman
7) Francouer
8) prado

So your under the 40 million with 5 or so to play with to help bolster the bullpen which COULD be stacked ( potential guys back there in no order

Gonzo
Soriano
Molyan
smoltz

Bama,

Yet again, I have to absolutely disagree. From any perspective, business or otherwise, having guys like Dunn and CC is a good idea because it attracts fans. I believe I mentioned that and the business sense it made in my last post which you obviously didn't read. And if you think the Yankees wouldn't try to sign both of them themselves you are kidding yourself, the Yankees always try to sign the best talent on the market. Every team does, not all teams can afford them. This year the Braves have money to spend.

Furthermore, this makes sense for the Braves because they can get these guys without mortgaging the future (in other words, trading prospects). If you actually read my post and use your head you will see that I am absolutely right.

Juice, again, I know, I would love to have Cain, but the Braves front office highly values the three guys you mentioned and will not part with them. Thats all I am saying.

VT, nostalgia aside it isn't a good business decision to pick up Renteria because he is on the downside of his career.

Whoever it was that said pick up Andruw Jones, I was actually thinking that except that the Braves shouldn't even pay 1/3 of his contract. It won't happen.

"VT, nostalgia aside it isn't a good business decision to pick up Renteria because he is on the downside of his career."

What sense does that make? Just 1 year ago in 2007 he had arguably the best season of his career. He's only 32, he's hardly over the hill. We picked him up after a bad year in Bostn, and look how well that worked out for us. Renteria's not a great defensive SS anymore due to his limited range, but he would do just fine at second base. Outside of that, Edgar's peripherals are still good. He's actually cut back on his strikeouts this year from last year, and his walk totals are on pace to be just about where they were last year.

If anything, his poor 2008 season can be attributed to bad luck more than a declining ability to hit. To give up on him now would be foolish. I think it makes worlds of sense to buy low on Renteria, and sell high on Kelly Johnson, provided he can bring us in a good pitcher with room to grow like Ian Snell. If we can't work something like that out, then it doesn't make much sense to move Johnson. But ... if we can improve our rotation by trading Kelly, it makes worlds of sense to do it, as we already have viable 2B replacements in Prado and Infante, and Renteria would just further establish that.

To the poster who said Prado can't hit ... all he's ever done is be a good hitter. He won the batting title in AAA last year if I'm not mistaken. Just because he's not a HR hitter doesn't mean he can't hit the ball.

Renteria's ground ball ratio isn't any different than it's typically been.
________G/F
2004....1.57
2005....1.58
2006....1.54
2007....1.41
2008....1.59

The only real abberration there was 2007. So while this might suggest he won't be able to repeat 2007 (arguably his best year), Renteria was still a good player in 2004, 2005 and 2006.

And while his walks are down from last year, so are his strikeouts. This completely offsets. His Walks per strikeouts in 2007 was 0.60. It's exactly the same this year, 0.60.

Look at Renteria's BABIP. It's slipped to .291 this year. In 2007 it was .375, and in 2006 it was .324. While that would suggest he was overachieving in 2007, it certainly should also suggest he's been underachieving this year. If Edgar's BABIP raises back up to the .320-.330 range like it should, he'd be posting great stats again I'm certain.

Yes, 2007 was clearly one of his two best years; arguably his best. I'm not saying I expect him to come back and do that. But I don't think a repeat of 2006 performance would be unreasonable to expect. And Renteria was darn good for us in 2006.

I think you're misreading the point of this. The point is not to replace Kelly Johnson with Renteria because I feel Renteria is vastly superior. It's because, despite having a ton of money this year, we have too many holes to fill by simply going the free-agent route. We have to acquire a left fielder with big HR pop (Adam Dunn). Yes, if we had to, we could pick up Dunn and two of the better starting pitching guys at about $15million a piece. However, doing this would wrap up a HUGE portion of our overall payroll in 3 players. That's a mistake we made in the past, and we can't afford to do it again. We need to spend all the money we have, but we need to be smart about it. It needs to be spread amongst the team, not concentraded amongst a few high-priced free agents.

Hence, we trade Kelly Johnson for a starting pitcher (Ian Snell) who is cheap, young, established, and pretty good. Couple this with signings of Derek Lowe and Adam Dunn, and all of a sudden we've added 2 solid arms to our rotation and a big bat to LF, while only spending about $30million or so. Prado I'm very convinced could be our everyday second baseman, but I'd still like to bring back Renteria and leave Prado and Infante in the utility roles, since they've thrived there. Resign Will Ohman for the bullpen, give Hampton a cheap contract to return, and then bring in the other role players I mentioned (Darryle Ward, Michael Barrett) and all of a sudden we've built a very solid all around team without breaking the budget or mortgaging our future by dealing prospects like Hanson, Freeman or Heyward.

Of course if KJ is traded, then Prado becomes your everyday 2b. Unless they sign Edgar!

I have been a Braves fan since I was a little kid and I am surprised that out of all the Braves blogs I have read, no one has mentioned anything about rejuvenating and securing a young rotation for years to come. Why not breathe some life into a dead team by bringing in a couple of young inexpensive starters this off-season? The days of us relying on older oft-injured pitchers are over. We need to get back to the days where our rotation was our strong point and give some young pithers time to grow together for years to come. Under the tutilage of Smoltz next year, why not give up a few prospects to land a guy like Matt Cain who is under contract for next to nothing for a couple years. Let him come over and prove himself and sign him to an extension to be the cornerstone of the braves rotation along with Jurrjens and another younger starter like justin Duchsherer. That would leave room for the growth of other home grown pitchers like Morton, Hanson and Rohrbough. Once we have a younger solid rotation, everything else will fall into place. That will take less pressure off of the offense, which has proved that they cant perform under pressure. That would also leave plenty of cap room for a couple solid bats for LF and maybe at 1B. Maybe a Raul Ibanez and Mark Teixiera? Or a bigger slugger in LF and a cheaper version at 1B? Either way, with a solid and dependable rotation, the only true void we would have is a power hitting RBI producer.
YOUNG STARTERS in 2009!!

The Braves Playoff caliber 2009 roster

ss-Yunel escobar
2nd-edgar renteria
3rd-chipper jones
c-brian mccann
1st- kasey kotchman
cf-baldelli/mike cameron possibly
lf-adam dunn/pat burrell

sp-lowe
sp-sheets
sp-garland
sp-campillo
sp-hampton

cl-john smoltz
su-tom glavine
su-rafael soriano
rp-mike gonzales
rp-kyle farnsworth
rp-will ohman

Bench

Michael barrett c
scott podsednik of
gregor blanco of
omar infante inf
martin prado inf

What about trade Kotchman, Blanco, Jo Jo, and a prospect for Prince Fielder assuming we can get an extension done beforehand. Then trade Johnson or Prado, Lillibridge or Brandon Jones, a mid level prospect(Medlen or Gorkys), and another low level prospect(or whatever gets it done) for a young cheap number two starter(Cain, Greinke, etc). Then go out and sign a FA Pitcher (Sabathia, Lowe, Dempster) and a FA right-handed leftfielder. It would be tight on money but with the money saved on the players you are trading along with the 45 million to spend, it could be done. Plus, you could dip into the insurance money from Hudson this year and next year Hudson is off the books to free up 15 million dollars to help with Fielder's contract. Your lineup would be good but not as much depth.

1. Escobar
2. Prado or Johnson
3. Jones
4. Fielder
5. McCann or FA LF
6. FA LF or McCann
7. Francouer
8. Shaeffer

SP-FA SP (Sabathia, Lowe, Dempster)
SP-Traded For-(Cain, Greinke)
SP-Jurrjens
SP-Campillo
SP-Hampton or Morton

You still have a Infante, Anderson(lineup changes if Anderson over Shaeffer-Anderson to leadoff), and Norton off bench and a pretty good bullpen that is missing a lefty specialist.