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Wow. Charley Walters must smoke a lot of crack. "It wouldn't be surprising if the Twins have trade talks about moving outfielder Delmon Young to the San Francisco Giants, from whom they acquired pitchers Joe Nathan and Francisco Liriano. The Giants' leading home run hitter this season was catcher Bengie Molina with 16."
And Delmon Young hit all of 10 homeruns this season, so I don't see how adding him is a big step up from Fred Lewis (9), Randy Winn (10) and Aaron Rowand (13). The Giants already have a crowded outfield with 4 legitimate starters and Dave Roberts who is signed for another year. Also, the last thing the Giants need is a non-slugging outfielder with an attitude problem.
Walters's whole sentiment seems to be based on the fact that the Twins raped the Giants before, so why not rape them again. Is Sabean wearing a slutty outfit?
Please! Do some actual research on team needs (other than the Twins' need to steal the Giants' young pitching) before GUESSING on possible trade scenarios. Jeez.
Posted by: nostocksjustbonds | October 15, 2008 at 11:53 AM
Wasn't this expected when signing Castillo. Look at 2006-2007. Injuries, dropping OPS, low SLG, etc. Only thing that looks too different from his Twins time was his BA. Omar knew what was coming.
Giants shouldn't trade for Delmon Young. He has great potential, but the Giants NEED INFIELD POWER. Delmon won't be playing the IF anytime soon.
Posted by: melonis rex | October 15, 2008 at 11:54 AM
nostocks, it appears that Walters assumes the Giants have a "kick me" sign around their necks and the Twins will want to oblige. As you said, just because the Twins nailed them before doesn't mean the Giants want a replay.
If Young had shown flashes that he would be a better long term option in LF than Lewis, then perhaps a trade and then moving Lewis or Rowand elsewhere would make sense. For all we know, he is a better option, but until the Giants deal with the IF and clear that logjam in the OF, getting Young doesn't make sense.
Posted by: Buck Henry | October 15, 2008 at 12:01 PM
"Mets GM Omar Minaya regrets the Luis Castillo contract."
Re-read it. He doesn't regret signing Castillo. He just wouldn't have given him a 4-year contract judging by how he played this year.
Posted by: icedrake523 | October 15, 2008 at 12:20 PM
“If you had to do it again, would you give Luis Castillo another four-year contract?”
Omar Minaya: Well, no, not the way he played this year - of course not.
To me, saying he would not give the contract if he had a chance to do it again is equal to regretting it. You can split hairs if you like.
Posted by: Tim Dierkes | October 15, 2008 at 12:36 PM
Minaya admitting he sucks....now lets go out and reward him with a contract extention for another 4 years like they did after choking and missing the playoffs the past 2 years.
Posted by: clarknaddison | October 15, 2008 at 12:41 PM
Don't forget Minyana giving Pedro a 4 year contract either. Who knows? castillo might turn out better.
Pedro cost them 53 Mil for 34 victories and -0- post season appearances over his 4 years they got him for and at least
castillo has 3 years left to try and improve upon his 1st dismal year..
Posted by: johns | October 15, 2008 at 12:53 PM
I don't really see why the Giants are so hell bent on keeping Lewis around. He has tons of speed and can hit, but his defense is terrible and he is already nearly 28 years old. Also, I think the infield talent they have is decent, especially if they can play Sandoval at 3B. That would leave 2B as their only position of real need, as Ishikawa proved he can play.
An OF of Schierholtz, Rowand and Young would be a positive.
"And Delmon Young hit all of 10 homeruns this season, so I don't see how adding him is a big step up from Fred Lewis (9), Randy Winn (10) and Aaron Rowand (13)."
There is a big difference working there. Young is just 1 month removed from his 23rd birthday and had a lot of bad luck this year, especially earlier in the season.
"Don't forget Minyana giving Pedro a 4 year contract either. Who knows? castillo might turn out better."
Minaya has been bitten by injuries on both those contracts. Remember that Pedro was dominant in the first year of his contract. It was only later that he was hurt.
Posted by: AA | October 15, 2008 at 01:18 PM
They would want at least Sanchez for Delmon Young...
Don't like it!
Posted by: 55saveslives | October 15, 2008 at 01:20 PM
"Wasn't this expected when signing Castillo."
Not really....The belief was that the contract was 2 years too long, but that had little to no bearing on what people expected out of him in 2008-2009.
[quote]Look at 2006-2007. Injuries, dropping OPS, low SLG, etc.[/quote]
2006 142 G, 728 OPS
2007 135 G, 721 OPS
2008 87 G, 660 OPS
(He has a Career 722 OPS, and averaged 138 Games/Year since 1999 for comparisons sake)
Those aspects were not dropping off in the least.....and he always had a low SLG, so I'm not sure how that's relevant.
Unless your Nostradamus, that's a pretty hard drop-off to predict for 2008.
Posted by: AdropOFvenom | October 15, 2008 at 01:27 PM
AdropOFvenom - Using OPS for a guy like Castillo isn't a good measure. The S part will always hurt him. With him, you have to look at OBP, which has always been strong and was a very respectable .355 this year as well. The issue with Castillo's contract is that he doesn't run like he used to, so those walks and singles don't turn into a RISP on the next pitch. Also, his injury issues last year had to be a red flag for this year, where he only played half the year. If Castillo were healthy and can run like he does when healthy, he would be ideal to lead off and allow Reyes to slot into the number 2 slot to drive him in and set up for Wright.
Posted by: AA | October 15, 2008 at 01:41 PM
I agree with AA...Castillo hit pretty much as expected this year, though not in the WAY we would've expected. That is, he bumped his walk rate significantly and his batting average fell. If he keeps walking but the AVG comes back up he could put up some real nice OBPs.
It's his defense that dropped off this year somewhat unexpectedly.
Posted by: Tim Dierkes | October 15, 2008 at 01:43 PM
The Giants going after Delmon makes sense, but it also blocks one of their better performers and prospects in Nate Schierholtz. For some reason Giants fans neglect to give Nate a fair shot, but in every level, and every MLB opportunity he has performed.
Nate may not have the superstar potential that Delmon possesses, but he could certainly establish himself as a MLB regular who turns in solid years of production. His biggest flaw is his ability to take a BB, and consistently get on base, but that may improve with experience.
Posted by: The Juice | October 15, 2008 at 02:04 PM
Giants fans neglect to give Nate a fair shot? Its not us that decides...
Giants fans have been calling for Winn's trade all season to get Nate in...
Posted by: 55saveslives | October 15, 2008 at 02:39 PM
I would have given Pedro every dollar of that money even knowing what I know now. It was not a mistake at all. In fact, one could argue it was Minaya's best signing. Much like Pudge going to Detroit, Pedro coming to NY changed EVERYTHING. This was an instant change to what, at that moment, was the worst franchise in baseball. The NY Mets turned their entire franchise around by signing Pedro. Sure, he was old, and sure, he didn't work out for 4 years. I don't regret that signing one bit.
I feel bad for Clarknaddison. The guy has been embarrasing himself for a couple of days now and he doesn't even realize it. I know he is bitter about the Cubs choke job (is this really that different then the Mets? Sure , Cubs have been in the playoffs the last 2 years, but they have the same amount of playoff wins as the Mets over that period. Does that give you some kind of street credit up in Chi-Town Clark?), but to embarrass himself on purpose because he is upset over the Cubs seems like a stretch. But who am I to judge. I am annoyed over my Mets, just like Clark is over his Cubs, but atleast I am not a bigoted racist, not to mention extremely unintelligent, both in a baseball, and in real world situations, while Clark has more then proved he is all of these things over the last 72 hours.
Posted by: nrmax88 | October 15, 2008 at 03:41 PM
This might be a totally stupid idea, but hear me out....
Castillo won't get the Mets anything worthwhile in the trade market and eating his contract is just plain dumb IMO. Hudson is also coming off of injuries. Why don't we sign Hudson, and let both Castillo and him rehab during the off season? Next year, we can have them both platoon at 2nd base. Here's some potential outcomes:
Awesome: Both of them are productive = you have a decent trade chip for the trade deadline next year
Not too bad: One of them ends up sucking = you have one good 2nd baseman and a crappy trade chip at the deadline next year.
If this happened I would bang my head on the corner of my desk repeatedly: Both end up sucking, and Mets fans drink themselves to oblivion for a third straight year while struggling to come up with retorts to insults from Philly fans.
Posted by: Paulio, Male Gigalo | October 15, 2008 at 03:41 PM
The Mets were the best team in the NL in 06, and the best team in the NL East for 150 games of 07 and of 08. Is it really Minaya's fault that these guys couldn't hold together their biggest lead of the season with 17 to play 2 seasons in a row? I don't know about any of you, but if I am told my team will have their largest division lead of the season on sometime around September 15, I am signing up for that all day. I still don't think the Phillies are a better team then the Mets. People can argue/ cry all they want, but it is how I feel. Those of you who have been around all year I am sure will remember me saying on numerous occasions, no team can stop the Mets, besides the Mets. They continue to beat themselves. Maybe this makes the Phillies a better "team", but I will say that I will take the Mets talent over the Phils talent. Something is definitely wrong, but it isn't that the Phillies are just to good and the Mets can't compete.
Posted by: nrmax88 | October 15, 2008 at 03:49 PM
I love how people think Luis Castillo is somehow the reason the Mets didn't make the playoffs. It is a laughable theory. Sure, he stunk, but he hardly cost us anything. This can be said for any team, but the Mets gave away a ricidulous number of games, both bullpen and offense. A ton. Scrape one more win out of the 20 or so you gave away and you are in a play-in game. Scrape 2 and you are the NLE winner. Win a minsicule 5 out of 20 that you gave away, and we are not having this conversation.
Posted by: nrmax88 | October 15, 2008 at 03:51 PM
Hudson's injury, like last year, was of the freak variety, not chronic like Castillo's legs. Even though the injury did repeat, it is hard to call that a "history". Hudson's value over Castillo is power and that he has more range than the 2008 version of Castillo. If Castillo could still run like he used to, he would instantly be the more valuable player because he is the better overall hitter and base runner.
Posted by: AA | October 15, 2008 at 04:13 PM
I admit I exaggerated a bit above. However, while Castillo was not THE factor, he was definitely A factor in the lost race this year. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I know that the Mets winning percentage was way down during the periods of time this season that he was active. Coincidence? Maybe....but from what I saw from his at-bats, the (clutch?) double-plays he hit should make him an MVP contender for some of those opposing teams.
As for the bullpen, I think we've exhausted how much they blew it....not to mention the lack of late-game run production for a decent majority of the season.
Posted by: Paulio, Male Gigalo | October 15, 2008 at 04:16 PM
Moving Jonathan Sanchez straight up for Delmon Young would be an awesome move for San Francisco, regardless of whether they have a spot for him.
Delmon Young will be 23 for the majority of next season, and showed improved power and patience over the course of the season. He seems really close to breaking out and showing off all of his talent.
Jonathan Sanchez will be 26 next season and had an ERA over 5 this year in the NL West. He's not exactly a young stud. Obviously his peripheral stats suggest that he's a far better pitcher than he was in 2008, but honestly how is this guy any better than a #3 with that control?
Delmon Young has a far higher ceiling, is younger, and could potentially fit the Giants' need for a cornerstone position player.
To me at least, Sanchez for Young is a no brainer for the Giants.
And to say that Luis Castillo is the reason the Mets' failed again this year is just silly. I mean, yeah, Castillo didn't exactly perform great. But then again he did have a reasonable OBP, and it's not like the Mets were actually depending on him to be a major contributor. Really, Luis Castillo gave the Mets exactly what they should've expected. I mean yeah, if they had Utley or Roberts in there, they probably make the playoffs. But then again very few teams have second baseman like that. I think we can all agree it was the bullpen's fault.
Posted by: scribbletone | October 15, 2008 at 04:24 PM
Paulio, I wasn't even necesarrily singling you out. I have heard a lot of people blame Castillo for the whole season. It just annoys me, because it isn't really like you expect big production out of the second base position. The bullpen stunk, yeah, but I still think with some LF type production out of LF the Mets easily make the playoffs. Which is why I love signing Ramirez. I think that move alone makes the Mets the team to beat, even without making any bullpen moves. Some of the current Mets bullpen guys will rebound, some won't. Parnell or Kunz could step up. You could invite some guys to spring training and see who sticks. Look through the rule 5 draft. But I would rather sign Manny then K-Rod if I can only have one. Bring back the same group of guys plus a bunch of invitees and minor league pickups.
I am not saying that is the way to go, but I think doing that, along with signing Manny gets the Mets into the playoffs next year, which is all I want. There is no reason that they couldn't sign Manny and make some lower cost bullpen moves, I was just trying to make a point that Manny alone, in 2008, would have made the Mets a playoff team. Probably pretty easily too.
Posted by: nrmax88 | October 15, 2008 at 04:33 PM
Manny would have probably pushed the Mets into the playoffs, but there's no reason why with a 1-3 run lead that fans of a high budget team should be throwing things at or turning off the tv as soon as certain relievers hit the mound. I'm not one of those over emotional get-rid-of-everyone-in-the-bullpen guys, but we can definitely use at least 2 new relievers and DEFINITELY (caps necessary) a closer.
Posted by: Paulio, Male Gigalo | October 15, 2008 at 04:52 PM
And as somebody already mentioned, the Mets got awful defense out of 2B all year, excpet for a handful of games Argenis Reyes played, but he canceled out that defense by providing nothing at all with the stick. If Daniel Murphy can play 2B at any kind of level that isn't just completely embarrasing, then I give him the job and live with his bat over there. I don't care about the rightside of the infield. We have a flyball staff anyway besides Pelfrey, and like I said, if Murphy can just field what he can get too, and make good throws, that is all I want if he can provide a .300/.370/.450 type of line. I know some people don't believe he can provide that. I do. This is not Shane Spencer, or another guy who came up and hit a ton of bombs off pitchers. He came up, had immediate success, and then faltered a bit. But after pitchers adjusted, Murphy did not do as most rookies do, and get down on himself and struggle. After a little while, he made the adjustments and got hot again. He has had some big hits. The one that comes to mind most is coming in and hitting a 2 run double off Brad Lidge as a pinch hitter.
Murphy has a great eye, and approaches every at bat like he is going to war. He is not a typical rookie hitter. He knows what he wants to do when he comes up, and he does not give in to the pitcher. He really battles through every at bat. In 151 PA, he saw 4.3 P/PA. People look at his BABIP of .382 and say he was lucky, but that can be explained by his insane 33.3 LD%. The guy hits a linedrive every 3 at bats. I have not seen a hitter with a better approach at a young age in my life. As a pure hitter, he reminds me of Kevin Youkilis. It is my honest opinion that during the time that Daniel Murphy was playing everyday (or atleast in a platoon with Evans), there was no Met who approached at bats better on a regular basis then Murphy. His only blemish all year is that weird instance where he tried to bunt with 2 strikes, which was certainly strange, but he should never have been nunting in the first place.
I think, as a Met fan, we can NOT trade Daniel Murphy. He is the exact type of hitter this team needs.
Posted by: nrmax88 | October 15, 2008 at 04:53 PM
nrmax, I actually agree that signing Manny would be massive for the Mets. If they could land Manny, a solid starter, and a solid Juan Cruz-like reliever in free agency, this team would be very good. A lineup with Reyes at the top and Wright, Ramirez, Delgado and Beltran in the middle would be simply intimidating and scary. Johan, Maine, Pelfrey, a FA, and Niese/Heilman would be good enough to be great with that offense. The key would be if Maine can bounce back and they can get solid performances from the 5 spot in the rotation. But adding Manny would definitely eliminate any issues this team had offensively.
Posted by: scribbletone | October 15, 2008 at 04:55 PM
Believe me, after watching Delmon all year long for the Twins....he does NOT have a high ceiling. Yes, he is only 23 and will continue to evolve - but there are two main problems:
1) He has an old man's body. In the field he is like a late 30's outfielder, i.e. Ken Griffey or Jermaine Dye. He's stiff, not agile and misjudges balls. Brutal. And he will NOT get better in this regard. He has the frame and genetics (e.g. Dimitri) to get bigger and less agile. He will probably only get worse defensively.
2) Hitting. He is stubborn and has frustrated some of the best and easiest going coaches in MLB (Gardenhire, Vavra, etc). He is very undisciplined at the plate - which yes might improve as he ages. But he seems to purposely not hit for power. He is more influenced by his dad and brother who have encouraged him to hit inside out and hit the ball away. So, he has hit for .280-.290. However, that is inflated on the hard turf in the Metrodome and will change as the Twins go outside after next year. Plus, he was brought in as a power hitting corner outfielder to solve the Twins power problem. No way, maybe he'll hit .280 with 15 home runs and 90 RBI's some day....but most teams want more power out of a corner outfielder. Plus there is the fielding liability - which overall makes him a very average player and not a high potential guy at all.
The best thing the Twins could do is to trade him before other teams realize that his ceiling IS low. If the Twins could trade him for a power hitting, good fielding third basemen (Adrian Beltre - .265 with 25 home runs) it would be great ! I don't care if Adrian is only good for another 2-3 years, I'd pull the trigger today!!!!
Posted by: Fry Dog | October 15, 2008 at 11:04 PM
Fry Dog, wow those may be some of the most unintelligent baseball comments i've seen on this site. Delmon Young was the number one prospect in baseball while in the minor leagues and has loads of potential. I have yet to see where/when Gardenhire and Vavra have been frustrated with Young's hitting style especially since the team encourages opposite field hitting. And lastly as far as your prediction of Young's potential... he's already hit better than 280 15hrs and 90 rbi as a rookie last year so I doubt that a 22 year old has reached his full potential.
Posted by: yrocks2001 | October 17, 2008 at 11:29 AM