Cubs Rumors: Ibanez, Abreu, Teahen

"Teahen for Marshall and Fontenot! yes, that is a trade that helps both teams"

Both Marshall and Fontenot are better than Teahen by themselves.

Jake Fox for Teahen is about as far as I would go. Wouldn't mind Teahen in a platoon role...but it is not my top choice. Same with Ibanez.

Teetz said it before I could.
Both Fontenot and Marshall are better then Teahan. Mark DeRosa is better than Teahan. DeRosa in right and Fontenot at 2nd costs nothing. While Marshall is probably expendable, Teahan makes no sense.

The Cubs might as well keep Fukudome in RF as opposed to Teahen. That way they could use Fontenot and Marshall as well.

Lou will erase thoughts of Fonteno at SS in ST I would think. His range is more limited than Theriot's. I understand Lou's thinking. He wants Mike to get more ABs.

I do agree they need another veteran BP arm...*cough-woody-cough*...but that one is over.

The truth is there might not be much in the way of splashes coming to Chicago. I think resigning Dempster was it. Hendry will try to trade for a bat, but it will not be the stud some envision.

I don't understand why the Cubs need a "leadoff" hitter in order to move Soriano out of the #1 spot. They have Theriot who posted a .390 OBP last season who doesn't K and is learning to take BBs

"• • Piniella isn't ruling out dropping Alfonso Soriano out of the leadoff spot, considering his .213 career postseason average with a .263 on-base percentage and 53 strikeouts in 174 at-bats. But that's going to require Hendry acquiring somebody else who can do that job.

''There's nobody else that we have on this team that leads off,'' Piniella said. ''We'll see. Right now our focus is to get a big [middle-of-the-order] bat. If we did nothing [to add a leadoff man], I'd be very happy to have Soriano leading off.''

I just dont understand how a middle of the order, free swinging, strikout artist and low obp machine can leadoff for a contending team like the cubs. Theriot would be a better option. This is driving me crazy.

Remember last spring. The last two weeks of spring training Lou had Soriano batting 2nd to ease him out of the lead off spot. Everyone thought a Roberts trade was coming. When it did not, Lou stuck Soriano back in his lead off role. It appears the only way Lou will move Soriano is if a true lead off guy was acquired. It is slim that Hendry gets one this offseason, too.

Damn, the Royals are a dumb organization. What do they want with the garbage that is Marshall and Fontenot?

Bleeds, I am with you. It's sad (on my part) when I am hoping no one offers Woody a multi year deal when Hendry offers Kerry arbitration and he accepts. Then we have Wood back for one more year. The chances are slim for this to happen, yet I still hope for this to happen. Yeah, I need to get over it and move on.

Not a single person I have talked to can explain to me why the team can not come up with the money for Wood for 1 year, which he was willing to sign. My thought is if we spend the money on Wood for 1 year and keep Fukudome in RF and Pie/Johnson in CF, our bull pen and defense would be solid. As opposed to weakening both areas by letting Wood go and moving Fukudome to CF with Johnson. It's not like there is a young Vlad or big RF stud on the market. The Cubs are weakening two areas for Ibanez or Teahen types of rumored players. Just because they happen to bat lefty when the team needs a lefty stick.

"Fontenot at short would hurt the defense, I agree he needs to play more but it has to be at second with DeRosa in right. As far as a lefthanded hitting power guy, we need to trade Lee and get that guy as a first baseman! Or, sit Fukudome and get a LH center field that can hit, but we all know Fuku makes too much to do that. We alerady have a leadoff hitter in Theriot but Lou doesn't want to confront Soriano."

I agree, Theriot is by far a better opt at leadoff. And we could trade Lee for Winn and then we got a switch hitting leadoff guy. Then sign Dunn for 1B, then we have the lefty power bat. All needs are taken care of.

I guess my point to my above post about Lou willing to move Soriano if Jim gets him a true lead off guy stems from the point others are saying as well. Lou won't confront or move Soriano unless there is a career lead off type of guy on the team.

When Jim and Lou met with Soriano before he signed, someone told Soriano he would bat lead off as part of the wooing to Chicago. I remember reading that somewhere. I'm guessing Lou told Alfonso himself and does not want to go back on his word. Unless a baseball noted lead off man is on the team, Soriano leads off. Theriot is not a 'name' or associated with lead off, like Roberts or Furcal are noted doing. Those names don't appear to be happening. I agree Theriot should be given the chance with this current team.

Sheets scares me. Too much injury risk for the money he will get. The Cubs cant afford either Sheets or Peavy w/o a 3rd team to trade with or shedding salary ie Marquis. I think RFer is more important.

"I would LOVE to see him play well this year and take over the job after D-Ro leaves and nets us two draft picks."

Meaning take over 2nd base after this year.

I believe I read somewhere that Soriano told Lou that he would move in the lineup to help the team. He would do anything that would make the team better. I wouldnt mind Furcal leading off and Theriot hitting 2nd. With Lee, Ramirez and Soriano hitting behind them.

The Cubs should give up whatever to get Peavy. He is a proven #1, go get him.

uww, there are a couple of important factors here:

Peavy makes a good amount of money. we can't afford him without trading Marquis, even if the Pads would accept an offer from the Cubs.

Furcal will cost too much money. Do you want to offer a 4/50 contract to him? I sure don't. I don't want to pay a guy the last little bit of money we have (if we have it, which I don't think we do) that played thirty some games last year. The year before he played 138, and had an OPS+ of 76.

Furcal is a pretty decent player...he isn't a player that I want my team breaking their budget for though, thats for sure.

Soriano's move down in the lineup is overblown. How many statistical studies about lineups not mattering have to be done before people quit whining about Soriano leading off? The team essentially has to replace Jim Edmonds, who OPS'ed .937 from the Left side in the OF. That won't be easy, but the best solution would be Milton Bradley. If not Bradley, then I would rather them sign Jim Edmonds on a one year deal than sign Abreu or Ibanez on a 3 year deal. Both Abreu and Ibanez will be worse signings than Jim Edmonds.

"So even if you could get Wood at 1/8, you would be paying at LEAST 3 of Marquis contract, making it like giving Wood 1/11."

Aduncaroo, this isn't actually correct. Marquis is set to make (I believe) 9.875M in 2009. Let's use your scenerio and say we signed Wood for 1/8 and traded Marquis and ate 3M of his salary. That 3M doesn't actually add onto Woods agreement, because technically it's 5.875M LESS than we currently have on the books. That would be the equivilant to signing Wood to a 1/2.125M agreement.

Sorry... just wanted to take a moment to clarify that idea.

Aduncaroo I agree that Furcal will get more money then he is worth. But a true leadoff hitter would help the Cubs more then people think. Maybe Furcal is not the right leadoff man but he really is the only one available. Roberts would be 10 times better but he price tag is too much. I diagree that we couldnt afford Peavy. I think our front office would allow Hendry to make this deal. And the Cubs want to get rid of Marquis anyways.

"I DO NOT want Abreu on the cubs. He is basically a left handed DeRosa. Not a middle of the order bat. Not worth 13-15mm per year. Id entertain Ibanez for 2 years. Dunn would be even better."

You are joking, right? Abreu is better than every single one of those three you mentioned. Abreu has more speed than all of them, a better arm than all of them (none are much defensively), as much or more power than all but Dunn... Abreu is ideal for he Cubs in every way except for his defense, and having Fukudome in CF should help that.

"But a true leadoff hitter would help the Cubs more then people think."

And why is Theriot not a true lead-off hitter? The guy posted a .390 OBP last year and has speed. That is the definition of lead off hitter.

"You are joking, right? Abreu is better than every single one of those three you mentioned. Abreu has more speed than all of them, a better arm than all of them (none are much defensively), as much or more power than all but Dunn... Abreu is ideal for he Cubs in every way except for his defense, and having Fukudome in CF should help that."

No, im not joking. Abreu 5 years ago might have been able to help this team. Not the aging Abreu of today. Hes a gap hitter, a nuber 2 in the order guy. Not the middle of the order bat that we need. Im not paying a 2 hitter 15mm a year, sorry. As for his steals, he had 33 attempts and got caught 11 times. He got caught 1 out of 3 times. Thats negative value.

"As for his steals, he had 33 attempts and got caught 11 times."

Clarknaddison, how can you rip on Abreu as a speedy middle of the order bat and then talk so highly of Theriot as a leadoff guy?? Theriot last year had 22 steals and was caught 13 times... same number of bases and a worse ratio than Abreu. Does this mean Theriot (who also has pretty far below average defense) has negative value??

"Aduncaroo, this isn't actually correct. Marquis is set to make (I believe) 9.875M in 2009. Let's use your scenerio and say we signed Wood for 1/8 and traded Marquis and ate 3M of his salary. That 3M doesn't actually add onto Woods agreement, because technically it's 5.875M LESS than we currently have on the books....

Sorry... just wanted to take a moment to clarify that idea."

Yes, but my point is that while you save 6 mil at best, Furcal will likely cost twice that and even if you could afford it, would eliminate any chance of getting a bat.

"That would be the equivilant to signing Wood to a 1/2.125M agreement."

Yes, on top of what we already have on the books right now. Where does the bat come from? Do you want to go into the season with Marshall and Gaudin as your #5 and the other one covering for Harden if he goes down?

I'm trying to just point out that I think Hendry had to pick between getting his plans done in the offseason, or trading Marquis just to sign Wood. He made a decision that I think is the right one...even if I don't like Wood being gone. I completely disagree with the Gregg aquisition though. I like him as a setup guy...but not at the cost our #2 prospect. I am just hoping that he knows something we don't.

"Clarknaddison, how can you rip on Abreu as a speedy middle of the order bat and then talk so highly of Theriot as a leadoff guy?? Theriot last year had 22 steals and was caught 13 times... same number of bases and a worse ratio than Abreu. Does this mean Theriot (who also has pretty far below average defense) has negative value??"

Your putting words in my mouth. My point is, Theriot is a better leadoff hitter than Soriano, he gets on base more. His steal rate was actually at 78% in the second half. So he was improving.

Bobby Abreu has over a 75% steal rate in his career, as well as a career line of .300/.405/.498/.903.

He also averages 40 doubes, over 20 homers and nearly 100 RBIs each year. According to the stats everyone here is using to annoint Theriot a leadoff hitter (.370 OBP and 22 SB, ability to take walks), Abreu is an even better leadoff hitter than Theriot!!

My point is that using 2 stats to justify where someone should hit does not work. You are also trying to twist stats to work with what you prefer, but I can do the same to twist them against what you say.

Theriot is simply not a leadoff hitter, and I'd personally rather see Soriano there than Theriot, and i really don't want to see Soriano there next year.

Also, Aberu may have absolutely horrible defense, but don't discount how effective he would be in Wrigley. He has a career OPS+ of 133 (last year Theriot posted a 93 OPS+), and it was even better in Philly than NY. I think a return to the NL and Wrigley may help him boost his numbers back to all star form (thank god fans don't vote on defense).

Do I think he's going to become a Cub? No, but that's because of his cost, not because he wouldn't work well.

Clarknaddison, my entire point is that Theriot is WORSE at stealing over the course of the year than Abreu. This just proves my point that Theriot is not a good leadoff hitter, and with a 93+ OPS he's not even that good of a batter in general.