Odds and Ends: Perez, Lowe, Garland, Swisher, Neshek

Bud Selig needs to do something with this Yankee crap, this is total BS. Or he needs to get fired. Why should the Yankees spend $200+ million on payroll? Not all teams can afford that payroll. And Yankees fans can type trash on me all they want, cause frankly, I could careless.

If the Braves miss out on CC, Lowe, Dempster, Burnett, and Peavy I would have to say they failed their assignment for off-season. The Braves need to get one of those fives (four of whom are available) guys and its possible.

BravesRed I agree. One thing I hate about MLB is the fact that there is no Salary Cap. I dont understand how Selig and company expect teams like that Braves that operate with a "reasonable" payroll to compete with teams like the Yankees who will overpay everybody.

Great points, everyone! The lack of a salary cap really is screwing over baseball...I mean, how are the Rays supposed to compete when they're paying guys $44 million and the Yankees are paying over 200 million?

Oh...

i love all these salary cap crap. Just seeing u ppl whine and argue (haters) is like music To my ears. america Just relax sit back and watch the Yankees Do magic this off-season

Stephen Peele wrote:

The Braves can't compete in the free agent market because teams like the Yankees insist on driving up the prices on any free agent, even on high-talent/high-risk players like AJ Burnett.

_________________________

Ummmmm see:

Rockies: Mike Hampton
Dodgers: Kevin Brown
Rangers: Chan Ho Park
Giants: Barry Zito
Cubs: Carlos Zambrano
Mets: Johan Santana

What big name FA pitchers have the Yanks signed to deals of 5 yrs or better lately?

MIke Mussina w/ 6 yrs/88 mil back in 2001? Even then that wasn't the most expensive contract for a pitcher. it's the smaller market teams that drove prices up.

The ONLY way I would be interested in signing Lowe is if Wren gets Peavy too. Lowe by himself, imo is not the main solution for the Brave's offseason needs.

Yankees do magic this "off-season." Just the offseason, even with cc and aj your still 3rd in the division.

Fine, a second year player.

"Ummmmm see:

Rockies: Mike Hampton
Dodgers: Kevin Brown
Rangers: Chan Ho Park
Giants: Barry Zito
Cubs: Carlos Zambrano
Mets: Johan Santana

What big name FA pitchers have the Yanks signed to deals of 5 yrs or better lately?

MIke Mussina w/ 6 yrs/88 mil back in 2001? Even then that wasn't the most expensive contract for a pitcher. it's the smaller market teams that drove prices up."

Why would you include Zambrano, who signed an extension and never reached free agency, and Santana, who signed a new deal and also didn't reach free agency?

When it comes to free agents, pointing to other teams' big-money signings doesn't refute the fact that the Yankees drive up prices. What those other absurd contracts suggest is that the smaller-market teams had to throw obscene amounts of money at mediocre free agents just to compete for their services.

it's not a Yankee problem and it's not a baseball problem
This is just capitalism at it's finest!
Just good ol' Social Darwinism, my friends

Cardsfan who are you kidding? Most of these FA's are not looking to give a team a hometown discount, have no ties with team all they are saying is "show me the money!" Whoever offers them the most they will accept! Welcome to Modern MLB!

I agree a little with everyone. There needs to be some kind of cap to keep it semi-fair, but "defense" is also right; with revenue sharing, smaller market teams are actually getting money from the big market teams. Don't blame the Yankees, they are not breaking any rules. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

defense,

The belief "you can't buy a championship", and the argument that "small markets can't compete with the 200 million dollar payroll team" are not mutually exclusive. You can believe, on one hand, that the Yankees mismanage their funds, and yet, at the same time, bemoan the fact that the Yankees corner the market for free agent talent and make the cost prohibitive for other teams.

I think the real gripe is that the small-market teams would not be able to keep up with the Yankees if the Yankees weren't so adept at shooting themselves in the foot with their free spending.

Also, it's disingenuous to simply paint the picture of Steinbrenner (and sons) as passionate owners who charitably put their own money back into the team as a thank you to the fans. Were the Yankees to liquidate, Steinbrenner's $10M investment in 1973 would be worth over $1B. The YES network is now worth considerably more than the franchise itself (even though it wouldn't exist without the Yankees). So even though Steinbrenner may have created an empire with his passion to win, he's not really reaching into his own pockets to win... he's tapping the corporate coffers and reinvesting in the product so that the product will continue to grow.

To ask other owners to raid their corporate holdings outside of baseball to try to make small-market teams viable competitors in the market for players is silly. Steinbrenner doesn't actually take a hit in the wallet, so why should others be called on to follow an example that Steinbrenner isn't actually setting?

Yeah..Yanks are horrible (yawn). We're trash (sigh). Posada sucks (why because he was hurt). Damon can't play (only hit .300, obp around .370, stole 29 bases and scored close to 100 runs). Jeter sucks (yeah just another .300 hitting HOF short stop). Wow...at least you guys were a little more on point talking about how we buy championships. Now you guys are just biased haters. You people do remember that Posada had a bum shoulder which required surgery right. The year b4 he was just a .330 hitting C with power numbers and a good glove. Yeah he sucks now...wow. We still won 89 games last year despite not having our 19 game winner, our starting C and 30 hr 100 rbi hitting LF. Sigh....whatever..blah..blah blah. Yanks are evil...blah blah blah. I wish my team spent money...blah blah blah.

Wahhhh payrolls, wahhhh Scott Boras, wahhhh MFY.

STFU.

Jeter does suck though. League average bat with horrible defense for 21 million last year.

"it's that their approach to managing their financial leverage over the rest of baseball is deeply flawed."

I disagree. I think what's flawed is people constantly looking at the Yankees payroll as if its somehow relevant. Do you not believe the Yankees knew they were overpaying for Jeter and Posada and Rivera? Of course they were. So if you take the straight number, you can easily say "with this much in salary, they should win or else they suck" but its ignoring the economics of marginal value. There is a lot of known dead money on the roster that was thrown out, much like the offer to Burnett, knowing that a $20MM overpay is worth it given the downside of a guy like Garland filling that slot instead. To read the Yankees payroll as a straight number above another team's is dumb; no team can have 7 good starting pitchers and no team can have 2 top 5 hitting catchers. Injuries will kill any team, regardless of payroll, and that's what happened in 2008. Maybe it happens again in 2009, but odds are they don't lose 3 of their 5 projected starters plus a super-replacement-level-shattering catcher plus a better than average LF. Internet bluster aside, I doubt there are many people here who would actually bet good money on the Yankees finishing 3rd in the AL East again next year.

"Jeter does suck though. League average bat with horrible defense for 21 million last year."

League average OBP was not .363, babe. Especially not at SS.

I believe it was Minnesota's call, which seems really weird given the fact that he's under their control through 2012.

Twinkies kept wanting to play him

League avg bat?

How many SS had a higher bat avg than Jeter (500 at bat min) in the majors?

Theirot, Guzman and Hanley Ramirez. All NL.

Better OBP?

Theroit, Ramirez and Escobar. All NL.

Hits?

Reyes, Cabrera, Young and Guzman.

The only thing he lacked was power (ranked 8th) and speed.

Yankee girl is 100% right. I lived in ATL from 99-01 and when the Yankees played the Braves in the WS...I bought tickets at the GATE. That is freakin pathetic!

It's really simple people...the Yankees SELL OUT. Doesn't matter if they're playing KC on a Tues night...it's a sell out. The owner then uses that money and money from a multitude of other areas and dumps it back into the team. Spend money and the fans will come. Dump money into your team and you have a better chance to win.

You wanna be pi$$ed off at someone? Be pi$$ed at your own fans and your owner. Then pick up an econ 101 book and stop your crying.

Steinbrenner: You want answers?

Pohlad: I think I'm entitled to them.

Steinbrenner: You want answers?!

Pohlad: I want the truth!

Steinbrenner: You can't handle the truth!

Steinbrenner: Son, Yankee fans support the greatest franchise in baseball history, and we have to field a team of highly paid all-stars every year. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Jeffrey Loria? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for the small market team, and you curse the Yankees. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that a Yankee payroll over $200M, while tragic, probably drives up league revenue; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, drives up league revenue.

You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want to hate me for it, you need to hate me for it. We use words like "no-trade", "8 years", "$160 million". We use these words as the backbone of an organization dedicated to winning championships. You use them as a punch line.

I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to an owner whose team is supported by revenue I share, and then questions the amount I'm willing to share. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you write a big fat check to CC Sabathia and put him on the mound for opening day. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think you're entitled to!

Pohlad: Did you order the "sign everybody?"

Steinbrenner: I did the job I was --

Pohlad: -- Did you order the "sign everybody?!"

Steinbrenner: You're god damn right I did!!!

"It was a wambam about the 102 OPS+ sweetness.

Lugo had a .355 OBP lover. "

Your first point directly contradicts your second (and I'll spell it out just in case you didn't know that). If you believe that OPS doesn't properly weight OBP, a contention with which I'd fully agree with, then you're saying Jeter's OPS+ is too low despite being above average (and thus well above average for a SS). If you think OPS+ is a really good stat as is, you're indicting yourself by comparing Jeter (102) to Lugo (78). Of course, you also know that Jeter ranked 3rd in OPS+ among regular AL shortstops. Right? Darlin'?

Oh and by the way Jeter finished second in the league among shortstops in fielding percentage (.979) and eighth in range (4.05)

Since when are the Rays and BSox guarantee t win 1st and 2nd place. A lot of people expect the Rays to do the same thing, just like Detroit, the Indians and the White Sox.

yeah i think that a salary cap would be a good idea so players would not be so dang on much its crazy much they are payed and all teams would have a chance at getting a player at a lower cost and more people would go 2 all teams games and tickets would not cost so much

So far I have heard defenses of Jeter by using his BA and his fielding% ???

Come on people. Jeter has fine hands but his range is awful. He cheats to position himself better costing more runs than any shortstop in baseball. Don't believe me - fine. Go read Bill James. Bill James then cites about 4 other sources that all come to the same conclusion - Jeter is awful in the field.

I'm sure he is a good guy and many teams would benefit from his play and leadership. It's the little issue of the $20m+ he's paid that people might take exception to.

Shouldn't Jeter be the BEST - by a huge margin - considering his salary? Off the top of my head I can't think of another SS who is even within $7m of Jeter's annual contract.

Oh, and I forgot to say:

Derek Jeter's overrated. Not saying he isn't a good and formerly great player, but he's not the 10 foot-tall ninja baseball god Yankees fans make him out to be.

And when it comes to defense, he's a statue out there. Stop kidding yourselves.

Isn't Odalis Perez the same guy who failed at starting when he was with the Dodgers? The same guy who transferred over to relief? I don't know what he's done in recent years but that history alone make me very skeptical about him deserving a juicy contract.

Braves red u poor thing u have no idea wat u r talkin about santana is 5 times betta then cc that's funny wen the yanks sign cc he will b betta then all those girls on ur startin rotation give me a break john smoltz , galvine , tim hudson lmfao all a bunch of washed up bums ! Santana is the best lefty in the game 2nd is cc by far so get ur facts straight b4 u talk trash

braves red u are a chump and u need 2 put ur money where ur mouth is if not I suggest u take ur head out of ur behind and just admitt that the braves will suck 4 centuries so don't talk about a team like the yankees where the owner got them 2 26 time world series champions

Ah yet another payroll shouting match.

I think the Rays have proved the point about how well small-market teams can compete with large ones.

Interestingly, they ALSO prove the point about how proper management allows teams with low incomes, relying on revenue sharing, to build a good team by doing EXACTLY what was suggested (signing attractive draft picks). The reason the Pirates suck is because they have drafted and negotiated poorly with their amateur players. The whole Pedro Alvarez thing was a bother and was the fault of Scott Boras, but if the Pirates bit the damn bullet and spent their money on their draftees instead of bothering with free agents, they'd be in much better shape. Again, see Rays. They have gotten away from bothering with high-dollar free agents, instead signing affordable role-players and building their team from within.

What people seem to forget is that the reason the Yankees payroll exploded in the 90s/2000s is because the contracts of Jeter/Posada/River/Pettitte/Williams started to pay off. Signing Roger Clemens/David Wells/Mike Mussina didn't help matters, but a lot of the money was tied up in paying the backloaded contracts of the guys who got us there. I am just waiting to see how much more than $200 million the Red Sox will be in 3 or 4 years when Pedroia, Youkilis, Papelbon, Lester, and Ellsbury will be getting their money.

As for the argument against Steinbrenner, the fact is, he DID spend money to build a winner initially. He spent money on the Yankees when he first acquired them and that turned them into the contenders that CBS had not been willing to make them. The fact that that product is now financially successful and the ownership is able to do the same thing they've always done without taking a loss doesn't take away from how they got there. Meanwhile, owners of small-market teams that complain about not being able to compete with the $200 million Yankees while pocketing absurd profits every year have no one to blame but themselves.

BTW, to all the braves fans begging for a salary cap, does anyone realize that the strength of the MLB players' union is why salaries are so high? And that that strength is what EVERY OTHER UNION in the US lacks? While it might not seem like it with guys like ARod making more than a garbageman will make in a decade, the MLB players' union is what other US labor unions should aspire to. Unless of course you're suggesting that people should not be paid fairly for their work.
-JM

I'll admit that I don't hate the players, minus Jeter, and maybe Damon. I just hate the front office. I'll also admit that I do want A-Rod to break the home run record, just because of who holds it.

I thought playing baseball was doing something you love, not about making money? You don't need the $276 million contract, you don't need the $20 million/year contract. I understand players are trying to make a living, but they can do that without being paid by over $20 million/year.

Whoever is typing crap to me, trying to make me mad over the internet just shows how pathetic you really are. By the way, it seems not to be working.