Union Pressuring Sabathia?

i think he means one of the three options, not that CC is from Milwaukee.

He may mean that, but he didn't write that. There were grammatical issues in another post yesterday. "Joel Sherman of the New York Post offers a dream rotation for the New York Yankees that includes CC Sabathia, Derek Lowe or A.J. Burnett, Chien-Ming Wang, Joba Chamberlain and Andy Pettitte." Pretty soon, a genuine trade rumor might develop out of this confusion.

"I would rather have the Yankees start rebuilding. So they can be good four years from now."

The Yankees won't rebuild. They're the Yankees.

I fail to see how signing CC would prevent the Yankees from rebuilding. It's not like they'd be trading away prospects.

the Yankees have to stop making the same mistakes. Like pavano and igawa I wont say a rod but come on we can't win with this team so we should rebuild. We cant waste money like this. I'm fine with the Yankees rebuilding. I want to see the Yankees win a world series and this is the best way to win one fast. Look at the rays with there rebuilding.

mynameborat: While what you say its true, you also need to understand that a team like the Yankees can't take the same approach the Twins or the A's take. People expect this team to compete every year. When you see a team like the Rays, most of their players came because of good drafting not cuz they were 1st rounders. Shields was selected in the 18th rd. So the Yank can sign big FA and at the same time still developed good prospects by drafting well.

bwit43 Go stick a finger up there, that way you can whine with some pleasure.

mynameborat:

I want to see the Yanks rebuild with youth as much as anyone but realistically speaking teams like the Yanks, Mets, Bosox and ANgels can't chuck away a season and NOT compete. It's just the way it is. What we have to do and the Red Sucks have done a good job with is to infuse youth as you go along. Cash has also done a very admirable and often overlooked job of inserting youth each year.

2005- w/ Cano/23, Wang/25

2006- w/ Melky/22, Bruney/24

2007- w/ Joba/22, Hughes/21, Kennedy 23, Ramirez/26, Duncan/27

2008- w/ Nady (29), Coke/26, Robertson/23, Veras/28 (debuted in 06)

2009- Swisher/28

That's the way to go. And honestly speaking, I would love the Yanks to go after CC and Oliver Perez strong. I know Perez is not as polished as Burnett or Lowe but the guys has had success in the majors, can play in NY and has nasty stuff. I think once he can command his control he will be a 18 game winner. Mayve or pitching coaches can bring that out of him. If we were lucky enough to sign those two guys look at this:

CC (age 28)
Wang (age 29)
Perez (age 27)
Joba (age 23)
Hughes (age 22)

And maybe we sign Pettite for 1 year and have Hughes as a long relief-spot starter for one year and then make him a starter in 2010. This way there's less pressure, less inning on him and he can transition easier but still get 80-100 innings in. With that staff we are set for another 3 to 4 years and can allow guys like Betaneces, Brackman, Kennedy, Sanchez to come along at their own pace or use guys like Kennedy or Sanchez as trade bait for young position players/prospects.

I think a plan like that better serves the Yanks and I would take a guy like CC as a FA rather than trying to trade for Peavy which will absolutely cost you 2 or 3 of your best prospects.

Signing a guy like CC or Burnett/Perez actually wll help guys like Joba and Hughes because then the pressure is not all on them.

CC, Wang and Burnett/Perez will take away pressure and spotlight on Hughes and Joba. The mistake last year was that we were expecting Wang to be Wang and Pettite to be Pettite, and Joba, Hughes and Kennedy to perform like they did in 07. Mussina saved us last year but no one expected it and sholdn't expect it again next year. The Yanks can be the Yanks and still infuse talent. I like the fact that for Nady and Swisher we didn't give up anything of signifigance with the exception of Tabata who is still very young and can turn into a great player.

they are plenty of people who go in the first round and panout. I love what the yanks are doing 200m payroll missing the playoffs. You are so impatient that u can't wait a year so the yanks can win a world series. Let your talent develop. CC may be 28 but he thrown so many pitches he has the arm or a 35 year old man. If he doesn't get tommy john that would be a surprise. The Rays now have a great team for a fourth of the payroll.

I was wondering if the union played a similar role in the Kerry Wood situation. Wood said he would have been willing to take a 1-year deal to stay with the Cubs, but I'll bet he would have gotten all kinds of grief from the union for not taking a multi-year deal. Since he and Hendry are pals, Hendry probably wanted to spare Wood the grief and just cut him loose.

As a Yankee fan I would hate to see them strugle but is worth it for the end result. Becket was a high draft pick. Hanly was a high draft pick look at the people drafted in the supplemental round. David wright we should get young prospects. By offering arbitration and not signing type A

mynameborat:

You just don't get it do you? What makes you think we can win in 2010 with just Wang, Joba and Hughes? Your comments are stupid. The Yanks miss the playoffs once in 15 years and this is what you bring to the table?

The Rays were able to accumulate that talent becuase every year they were among the worst teams. Do you realize that the Yanks have had a #1 draft pick in EVERY SINGLE DRAFT IN THE LAST 15 YEARS W/ THE EXCEPTION OF 2002? Your draft slot is determined by your win/loss record. The Yanks haven't had a top 10 pick since the year they drafted Jeter at #6 overall. Meanwhile, I will give the Rays credit for picking the right players but please understand it's hardly rocket science. Every year the top 10 players are rated and scrutinized over and over and over. The Rays have picked Longoria, Delmon Young, Rocco baldelli, BJ Upton, David Price and Josh hamilton were all seclected 1-6 overall. It's not like the Yanks would've passed on them if they were selected there. Do you know how long it took them to amass the team they have??? 8 years of horrible losing seasons. Why are people acting like they did this overnight? I'll give them credit for the Delmon Young for Matt Garza deal, the Dioneer Navarro for garbage w/ the Dodgers and again with the Dodgers getting Edwin jackson for Danny Baez, for robbing the Mets of Scott Kazmir for Victor Zambrano. They did a good job of finding Sonnastine and Shields in the late rounds. But understand that the studs that form the core of their team (BJ Upton, Longoria, Delmon Young (Matt Garza) were all a product of having losing records and being in a position to draft that high.

Oh and I'll give them props for signing Pena as a FA.

mynameborat yeah like the White Sox when the won and the Tigers a few years ago and Colorado last year. Not every team is as consistent as the Yanks. what the Yanks miss the playoffs one year? big freaking deal. The tigers were supposed to in it all after their super trade. How about the Indians also supposed to win and did worse than the Yanks. Reality is, the Yanks won 89 games with a busted rotation, injuries, and under performing players.

We seen teams like the Rays before and usually don't win consistently alike the Yanks

mynameisborat:

You should change your name to "mynameisIKNOWNADA".

Beckett was a #2 overall pick by the Marlinz. Hanley Ramirez was an undrafted FA signed by the Red Sucks. They Sucks traded Ramirez, Annibal Sanchez and others for Beckett and Lowell.

The only way a team will ever get a chance to sign a highly regarded college/high school player is if they slip down because of issue pertaining to signing ability (in the case of HS players who they think will go to college like Garret Cole this years Yank #1 pick) or for injury concerns (last years #1 pick Andrew Brackman).

But you won't sign CC who has never had any arm trouble and has never been on the DL but you want us to put ALL of our chips hoping that HUghes and Joba, who both HAVE been on the injured list, WILL NOT GET HURT AGAIN???

Dude...I want the Yanks to hold on to our young players. We can sign guys like CC, Perez/Burnett, Tex and it would in NO WAY, SHAPE OR FORM, intefere with Hughes and Joba getting playing time.
If we sign guys like the ones mentioned above then that means we DONT have to resign guys like Mussina, Pettite or Lowe and can allow Job and Hughesto grow into their positions as the #4 or #5 guys or in the case of Hughs as I sugested long releife/spot starter for a year.

Borat, I have never heard anyone talk so much bull' in my life. You know nothing of CC's durability or of his mechanics. One of the great things about Sabathia is that he is a workhorse, as he showed in Milwaukee. He isnt an injury risk like Burnette. To say he is going to need Tommy John makes no sense and is an unsupported statement.

And in response to everyone who thinks signing Sabathia hurts our young talent like Hughes and Joba, that is just ignorant. Were not trading for Sabathia, we're just signing him. Hughes is 21 years old and should still be developing in the minors. We shouldnt be relying on him like we did this year. Some of you guys have to wake up and look at things objectively.

Wait, borat, did you just mention Scott Proctor? Please stop commenting on this subject because you dont even know what your talking about. PRCOTOR PLAYS FOR THE DODGERS NOW!

dude stop talking about this "rebuild" WE ARNT TRADING ANYONE! Hughes is not ready to pitch in the majors and neither is kennedy. The best thing to do would be to sign MLB ready players and let them develop in the Minors. That is the deffinition of rebuilding.

Hes Talking about Scott Proctor who we traded 2 years ago.

ok meant ponson not procter I was typing to fast

MyNameBorat your an @sshole get off these message boards you really look dumb... get a life try to find a sport thats less complicated to understand because baseball isnt working for you...

HE WON THE F*CK!N CY YOUNG AWARD IN THE AMERICAN LEAGUE A YEAR AGO!!!!! WHERE DOES THAT INDICATE HE CANT PITCH IN THE AMERICAN LEAGUE!!!!

CC won a CY young in the AL! What are you talking about he cant pitch in the AL?!?!?!

CC had a bad start to the season with a 11.3 ERA yet somehow managed to get it down to a 3.8 before being traded to the NL. Borat you are withot a doubt the worst poster I have seen this site or any other.

And you still havent backed up your claim that CC is a candidate for Tommy John surgery with any evidence.

The CY Young season was a year ago THIS MONTH, you ingorant fool NOT 2! So that marks like the 8th time youve said something compleatly wrong.

there is my evidence 1st In innings pitched

Borat, 1st in innings pitched is what the Yankees need. Right now, they have no one who is a lock for 200 innings. (Wang is a small ? due to injury from last season.) They need a workhorse in his prime. Hello CC

Dude...how old are you and why are wasting time responding to your comments?

Signing CC and Burnett/Perez strengthens the staff and makes it deeper. We can still pitch Joba and Hughes. Hughes and to an extent Kennedy have nothing else to prove in the minors. Keep in mind they have dominated at evey level in the minor. However, the Yanks can't afford to go with Joba, Hughes AND Kennedy next year. I like all three of them but that's too much pressure. I can see a situation like this:

CC
Wang
Perez
Joba
Hughes or Pettite/Mussina

I think it might be a good idea to let Hughes be a spot starter long relief guy for 1 year. let him get 15 starts while you rest Joba here and there. This way Hughes can pitch around 80-100 innings and Joba somewhere around 150 innings.

Have Kennedy and Sanchez in the minors waiting in case of injuries, etc.

If things works out well in 09 and Hughes and Joba are effective and healthy then 2010's rotation can be set with:

CC (age 29)
Wang (age 29)
Perez (age 28)
Joba (age 24)
Hughes (age 23)

A very young staff under contract for another 3-4 years. Then Kennedy would become trade bait because there's no room for him to crack that line up but you still have Betenance, Horne, Sanchez, Brackman knocing on the door (hopefully).

why am I a asshole I dont think we can win with cc you think we can. Everyone that has a dissagrement with you is a inorgant asshole. I think that he will have arm problems because of the massive inning pitched. I would love to see him pitch for the Yankees but we will have to pay for him in ticket prices. A human arm will eventauly give out if you keep on abusing it. They abused his arm. Plus he can't pitch in the playoffs another a rod

How is that evidence to support you???!!!? Sabathia hes excelent mechanics and the bulk of his power comes from his mass not from any excessive strain he puts on the elbow. But why would you know that I doubt you have done any research on these free agents.
If you want to worry about someone I would worry about Joba not CC.

CCs innings count will only be a problem if his teams continue to use him that way. the Yankees have a deep bullpen and are working to get a deep starting rotation so CC doesnt have to carry the load, just a share of it.

You people dont understand. I dont know if any of you have pitching experiance but I do. It isnt about the Innings Pitched. He could go 9 innings every game with his mechanics his technique allows him to do that. Somone that would have a problem with IP is Joba. Just do some research on the topic and you will see! I dont have enough space nor time in this board to explain it to you.

even with his mechanics with three days rest 150 pitch outings he will show wear

Espn was saying how his innings had effected him.

I've lived in Cleveland since 99. Since he came into the league in 2001 and started 33 games he's only pitched more than 200 inning 3 out of his 8 seasons (2002, 2007 and 2008). He pitched a lot of complete games because the Indians had no bullpen (7 complete games each year 06, 07 and 08). I'm positive the Yanks will make sure he doesn't pitch that long into a game if they have the lead. They will probably keep his innings down to around 200-215. But let's keep in mind for a second that arm problems have more to do with delivery and mechanics than it does innings pitched. Joba and Hughes are more of a concern to me than CC because they have shown that they need to be brouight along slowly. With anchors like CC, Perez/Burnett, Wang and maybe Pettite you can allow guys like Hughes and Joba to come along slowly this year. You can hold them to 5 innings and bring in the bullpen. But you would absolutely need guys like CC, Wang, etc to go into the 7th inning and beyond or else your bullpen will be worn out by the all-star game. And did you mention Jon Garland earlier? Please. If you're going to sign a FA why not sign the best available? Money isn't an issue and if we were to sign CC, Perez/Burnett, Texiera and Pettite we would just be using the same $80 mil that we have coming of this year. Our draft picks would be replaced by letting Abreu, Irod and possible Mussina walk. And in winter 09 we'll have another $25 mil off when we let Damon and Matsui leave.

mynameisborat wrote:

he shown wear in the begening of last year
____________________

His first 4 starts were horrible (0-4) and then he went 17-6 with a sub 3.00 era. So what you're saying is that he was tired at the start of the year and then GOT BETTER as the innings racked up? Dude, I apologize for dogging you "raggng" on your name earlier but your arguements make no sense. He just got off to a slow start last year. He pitches in Cleveland in march and April when it's still 50-60 degrees outside and sometimes it even snows in March and April here.

GeneseMC2):

I understand that but just because he can pitch a CG every start doesn't mean he should. I am all for the Yanks signing CC and I don't anticipate him having any injuries or anything. I was just stating to "...borat" that CC pitched complete games out of neccesity because Cleveland's bullpen was blowing a lot of games late in innings 7 to 9. In NY where you have Mo and a pretty solip pen he won't be FORCED to go 9 every start. In fact they shouldn't let him go past the 7th unless it's a close game or they need to give the pen a rest which they would probably need. I would like the Yanks to sign CC and another pitcher this year and have Joba and Hughes the mix. Since those two will probably limited to going 5 innings the bullpen would need some rest therefor requiring the 1-3 SP to go deep occasionally.

Your right BaseballFan' his isn’t worth it, let me just leave you with this Borat:

1) CC is not injury prone now nor has he ever been.
2) If you want to worry about someone worry about Joba and Hughes who have both already been injured in there short careers.
3) We need a better first baseman (not swisher)
4) Matsui and Damon are gone next year and Holliday is a free agent.

CC WILL be a Yankee and there is no amount of senseless complaining you can do to stop it. He WONT get injured and if he does you can come right to this website and rub it in my face. I will give you a full apology. You have given no support, except for your "Inning Pitched" argument, which is completely unsupported by anyone.

I wash my hands of you.

Dominican Yanks, if the fans expect the Yanks to win every year, maybe they should change this attitude. Don't get me wrong, I am a Yankee fan since 1981 but I realize that it is no God given right that the Yankees win it all every year. You can't. The fans should be patient and let the management rebuild. The eighties has shown us that spending doesn't bring us anything.

Not only could CC get you 20 wins. He pitches about 220 innings a year. That is so valuable to a Yankee bullpen which is very young and would need the rest coming postseason.

kinda sounds like CC doesnt wanna pitch for the yankees aye?

I dont know, why dont you go ask the devil himself? You might know him, he's the 9th inning pitcher for the red sox.

YanksFan78:

It's incredibly hard to take anything you say seriously when you refer to the Red Sox as the "Red Sucks". It's not clever, it just makes you look foolish.

hmmm, most of us can agree that we can't relate the Rays to the Yankees, they are two VERY different teams. Two good points made are that the Yankees can't go into an ALL rebuilding state because
- Yankees are paying big time contacts to win every year
- and the Yankees are expected to AT LEAST make the playoffs each year
YanksFan is making perfect sense when he says that the Rays didn't get there team over night and Neither would it take the Yankees overnight to build a team from high-draft picks.
That being said, the Yankees can meet their goals quicker than a Rays building model by sign YOUNG free agents AND getting the best of what we got in our farm. I myself find that getting Oliver Perez would a great idea, and yes along with C.C. Sabathia. that would be a young Pitching Rotation
CC- 28
Wang- 28
Chamberlain- 23
Perez-27
Hughes/Garland(or someone else) - 22/30
The Bullpen should be fine next year, so many options.
As for line-up and Def Positioning. here are possibilities
-Texiera, i don't think we'll need him but he'll help obviously as he's good hitter AND Defender. Which we have, at the moment, bad Defense
-We need to be on the look out for a catcher in our farm system to come up soon and then have Posada(who doesn't want to move)to move to 1st base "if" we don't get Tex (& if we get Tex, Posada catches next year as planned with crossed fingers, and the following year Posada would take DH role as Matsui, i believe, contract would be up.)
- and one idea, that may not be a good one, i have not heard about is getting Rafael Furcal at SS and move Jeter (lol who also doesn't want to move) to CF. However, still give A-Jax a shot and squeeze him in games so that in two years, hopefully, A-jax would be in CF and Jeter would take over Damon in LF (Damon's contract ends after next year).
- The rest of the postion players would stay the same for now.

Valentine the catcher you are looking for is Jesus Montero. He is a 19 year old catcher we signed out of Venezuela. He is ranked as having an 80 on the 20-80 scale for power. He hit a homerun in his only atbat during spring training this year. This year he hit .325 with 17 home runs and 84 RBI's with the charleston riverdogs. He is pretty good he just needs time to develop. Probably another 2-3 years.

is CC got injured I wouldn't gloat because I am a Yankee fan and if he signed with us I would cheer for him. He is only human and after bring abused you would have to think he is at risk.

the yanks do have some great prospects though thats why I love cashman. But hank is the every decision he makes it terrible. He got rid of torre.why

if we dont rebuild our team
CC
Wang
Burnett
Dempster/lowe
Hughes
su: joba
closer: mo
Damon
JeterTex
arod
Matsui
nady
cano
posada
swisher

if we rebuild
Wang
garland
Kennedy
Hughes
joba/wolf
joba/marte
mo
Damon
jeter
Matsui
arod
nady
posada
cano
swisher
melky

he is a fa soon