Braves Not Interested In Lowe, Peavy?

I think we should sign Hideki Irabu and call it a winter

cole hamels thinks the braves are off season choke artists

Well it doesn't make much sense to come out and say "We really really want Peavy!"

Despite the fact they could really use him.

That's unacceptable. Wren needs to get back in there and give Towers one more shot, and/or call up Boras and listen to what he has to say, then undercut him and hope it works. Adding Kawakami and Vazquez does not a starting rotation make.

because of this i say he is going to be a met.

think

the phillies re sign moyer and sin ibanez

braves have no interest

the yankees have signed cc and aj and shifted to offense

the only suitors are the met for 15 per year bargain

I think FW needs to take all of that Peavy energy and direct it towards Oswalt, Greinke, Cain, Arroyo, Harang or anybody else even rumored to be available.

Daslied,
Where are you hearing that Arroyo and Harang are available? If the REDS move anyone, I'd expect to be Arroyo but haven't heard that anywhere.

The talk I've heard from the front office is that the REDS rotation is one of the few areas that won't be messed with this offseason.

I'd be fine with an Arroyo deal, but think it'd be foolish to trade Harang right now. He's signed to a good contract and is coming of a very bad year. Please Walt, don't sell low on Harang.

JS mentions in his book that he has would avoid dealing with certain GMs because of the way they would handle negotiations. I'm sure if the right situation arose they would consider dealing with KT again, but they'll avoid him if possible. Honestly, I don't think the Braves are a good match for Peavy anymore. The Braves aren't comfortable trading Escobar given the current SS market and I just don't see a deal working without Hanson, Heyward, or Escobar as a part of it and the Braves clearly aren't interested in that.

I am hoping Wren has something up his sleve to get us a young high end SP. I need something here hell sign a power outfielder give me something to be positive about.

Wren wanted two studs going into the offseason. Javier Vazquez and Kenshin Kawakami? Sign me up for season tickets next year!

Having the names leaked is probably one thing that has Wren upset. Especially when one was Yunel. He is still young and emotional so that might mess with his head. But some of this I think is for something else. Towers could be thinking the Braves are desperate right now and will come crawling back. Maybe Wren is saying what he is saying to counter that potential feeling and level the playing ground. Also I think going after a Kawakami and a Garland?Perez?Cabrera wouldn't be the worse thing. No there aren't any one true ace (unless the legend John Smoltz comes back to Atlanta) but that would be a very solid pitching staff from top to bottom that would eat innings and not post that bad of numbers. It could lead to a more solid team because there would be more money to fill other holes (left field, bench, and lefty reliever). Plus with the second tier guys you could get them on shorter deals so when Huddy, Hanson, and the rest of the young arms are ready there aren't a lot of contracts in the way

That was my worry too but I would be happy with him eating 160-170 innings for us...Campillo can't make it the long haul of the season and we don't need to overwork Jair, all we have to eat innings are Vazquez at this point, I'd say anyone that can eat 160-170 consistently for a fair rate for us is a good pick up at this point...

on kind of a related note, looks like the padres might be up for sale soon...

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/sns-ap-bbn-padres-goldman-sachs,0,1599710.story

maybe this changes things as far as peavy goes??

well we really can't afford Lowe or Peavy now. We dont have anymore players to offer. We would have to give up Yunel to either one and if we do that we wont have a shortstop unless we get in on the running with Furcal. Then we would have to fork out another big contract and wont be able to get the outfielder we need.
I understand the Vaquez deal bc we need a pitcher but we could have held out for something better than a +4 ERA and a career losing record.
I think now the braves need to look harder into signing smoltz back before we end up losing him to the red sox. Theres no telling how good hes gonna be when he gets back. A guy throwing 94 with a hurt arm all season and having surgery to make it stronger. Theres a chance hes gonna be throwing some gas this year.
The braves need to start rebuilding their team. We need to get a solid left fielder and get a good backup first baseman which would have been better than signing a backup catcher.

Maybe the Braves don't plan on contending in 2009? Perhaps Braves fans will have to wait for that glut of untouchable prospects to mature in the next few years? Then again, maybe Frank Wren will get his act together and concede to give up some talent for a top 5 ace. Go Mariners!

First no one knows that smoltz will be able to start again. So before we put him as the #1 we have to find out if he will start and if he does it may not even be for the braves. Second I am pissed the Phils and Mets are killing us this offseason. Look at the mets pen alone. We have not done anything that will help us beat these teams this offseason. I dont know what Wren is waiting for but it is not looking good for the Bravos right now.

EC28, So many things that don't make sense. First we have plenty of players that could be offered and Lowe is a free agent so he wouldn't cost any players. Vazquez was not brought in to be an ace he was brought in to eat innings and be a veteran presance. Smoltz didn't pitch anywhere near a full season only 6 games and 28 innings. A backup catcher is really important because McCann can't sit back there for 162 games.

"Who's gonna wanna buy a sucky team that can't even win a division title in the NL West?"

i was talking more about selling off the highest paid player on a team potentially for sale, but good job on completely missing the point

and ..Oliver Perez is still out there..the Braves should sign him (if for no other reason, just so they won't have to face him..he owns the Braves)

"Maybe Wren isn't willing to mortgage the future just in the hopes that we can compete with the Mets and Phils next year. Even if everything breaks right, the Braves still might not make the playoffs next year. Sure, they should do what they can within reason to improve the team, but emptying the farm for a few extra wins in 2009 makes no sense."

I agree. People really need to look at the young guys that are coming up through this system right now. They already have the core of McCann, Escobar, Johnson, and Kotchman on the ML roster, as well as other guys like Schafer, Heyward, Hernandez, Freeman, Jones and Hicks. The pitching has Jurrjens, Hanson, Rohrbrough, Locke, Reyes, Morton, Teheran, Medlen and Marek.

This organization has a lot of very interesting players coming up through the system, and some good pieces already on the team. The Teixeira trade costed them big time with Salty, Andrus, Feliz and Harrison, which is a simply astounding haul, and they basically threw away Joey Devine, but the Renteria trade was huge by landing Jurrjens and Hernandez.

This team may not be much better than a 80-82 win team in 2009, but they may very well be contenders in a couple of years, with a star studded lineup of Heyward, McCann, Schafer, Freeman, Escobar and Johnson.

The Braves really screwed themselves when they traded Neftali Feliz and Elvis Andrus. Had they kept Feliz, arguably the best pitching prospect in baseball (although I'd put D. Price and Porcello ahead), they could've traded Hanson, and had they kept Andrus, they could've traded Escobar. Anyone think the Padres would've taken Hanson, Escobar, Reyes, and a lower-level prospect?

Baseball America actually just ranked Hanson ahead of Heyward in the Braves top 10. I think he's underrated right now because not everyone doing the rankings has seen him since he added his slider back into the mix. BA just ranked that slider as the best in the Braves system and its been compared to Smoltz's, coming in at 86-89 with sharp downward bite. If he can throw that pitch consistently that gives him 3 pitches that profile as at least plus pitches to go along with an average change. I think that raises his ceiling from a good #2 to borderline ace range.

Yeah I think at this point Tommy Hanson is an untouchable prospect. The guy has near ace potential and seems fairly likely to make it considering his fastball command and the emergence of plus offspeed stuff. At this point, Feliz has the better raw arm and has the higher ceiling, but Hanson is far more likely to reach his potential, and is therefore the guy I would take first at this point.

Andrus does have higher upside than Escobar, but as you put it that's basically Escobar with plus speed, and he probably won't be able to play everyday until 2010 at the earliest.

I think Frank Wren is doing a great job. The absolute worst thing he could do would be to trade away the farm system for injured players. And I don't blame him for giving up on the Peavy deal. Towers leaked every single detail to the media...and probably even embellished a few details to try to make Wren look bad. Who wants to deal with someone like that? Let Peavy stay with the Pads and have his Tommy John surgery on their dime.

Even with Mr. Wonderful Peavy, the Braves would not be contenders next year - not with the Mets and Phils in their way. They are at least a couple of years away from having a solid lineup. My suggestion for the rotation is to sign one more guy (Kawakami or Wolf) and re-sign Smoltz. The 2009 rotation will not be spectacular but will just be a bridge to the next generation.

2009 Rotation:
Vazquez
Jurrjens
Kawakami/Wolf
Campillo/Smoltz
Charlie Morton/Tommy Hanson

2010 Rotation:
Tim Hudson
Vazquez
Jurrjens
Tommy Hanson
Charlie Morton

2011 Rotation:
Tommy Hanson
Tim Hudson
Jair Jurrjens
Charlie Morton
Cole Rohrbough

"i wouldnt quite throw hicks or jones into a ctaegory with shafer, gorky, hanson,heyward, and freeman"

I wasn't, I was just throwing them out there as other position prospects that the Braves have. Obviously the future core of this team is going to be Heyward, McCann, Escobar, Freeman, Schafer, and possibly Kotchman and Hernandez.

The fact that the Braves traded a hot prospect who "plays" a premium position is a good thing. We traded Flowers at what was probably his peak value. There are obviously questions about Flowers' ability to stick behind the plate, and those will only get louder (and drop his value) if he doesn't show improvement this year. He also was never going to play C for the Braves so it would be a waste to not trade him at some point. As good as he looks with the bat, he's probably never going to be anything more than league average for a 1B. Most of his value derives from his ability to play C, so you cash in on that while you can.

You also seriously underrate Vazquez. At worst he's a solid #3/#4 pitcher that will give you 200 IP minimum. On a young staff like the Braves, you don't want to have to rely on young pitchers and injury risks for all your rotation spots. The stability that Vazquez provides is huge and Flowers was the only real valuable prospect we gave up.

Nixa, you are right about Flowers. He is 22 years old and has never played above A ball. The Braves traded him at the perfect time and got just the type of pitcher they needed. Vazquez is nothing but a bridge to the younger guys who aren't ready yet.

Here is the Baseball America listing of the Braves top prospects:

1. Tommy Hanson, rhp
2. Jason Heyward, of
3. Jordan Schafer, of
4. Gorkys Hernandez, of
5. Freddie Freeman, 1b
6. Cole Rohrbough, lhp
7. Jeff Locke, lhp
8. Julio Teheran, rhp
9. Kris Medlen, rhp
10. Craig Kimbrel, rhp

The future looks very bright for the Braves - just maybe not next year.

There is absolutely no comparison between Salty and Flowers. Salty is actually a decent defensive catcher and was one of the top prospects in all of baseball. He also is currently the same age as Flowers. Flowers projects more as a DH at the major league level.

Im not saying right now flowers is anywhere near what salty is im saying if he had a real big year next year at AA, and come on anyone one CAN improve defensivley, not saying he will, but he COULD.
Also its just down right dumb to expect that all these prospects of the braves are going to pann out. Theres a chance that NONE of them will be stars at the major league level.Especially the young pitchers. Even hanson isnt a SURE thing, ya hes about as close as it comes but hes not, especially guys like locke, rohrbough, and teheran.

Right, but he keeps the Braves from giving way too many innings to young pitchers or signing a free agent for too many years just so they don't have to push the youngsters. Besides, I don't think its out the question for the Braves to be competitive if they get Kawakami, Smoltz, and Burrell/Dunn. Obviously it would take some combination of more development from JJ, actual development for Reyes and/or Morton, a rebound for Frenchy, KJ and Escobar circa 2007, and the emergance of Schafer and/or Hanson.

Flowers value would have gone up if he tore it up at AA next year, but there was definitely no guarantee of that. There's just as much of a chance he would have continued to not hit for a ton of power and he'd struggle with Ks against better breaking stuff. Besides, if his catching skills don't get better, even a great offensive season wouldn't raise his value much because the chance of him sticking at C significantly decreases and he has to get better offensively to be a good prospect as a 1B.

Nixa im not trying to be mr. negative here but there are ALOT of ifs in that. It would really be a miracle if we won the division next year. Also I really think that flowers will improve defensivley. Hes a catcher at heart and wants to play the field. The main reason he was even in the AFL was to improve defensivley, but i guess only time willl tell on that. And i agree with u that we needed to get a guy in the rotation with a veteran presense that can eat innings to save the young arms howver wolfe or garland could have done the same thing for the same amount of money but we wouldnt have lost any prospects. IF we dont do anything else to seriously improve our team i will see the vazquez trade as a waste.

I still dont get why braves fans want adam dunn?? He plays horrible D in LF- granted so does burrell- but hes left handed and strikes out wayyyy to much. Id rather see us go after a guy like bradley or even burrell, but if its jus kawakami and a LF id rather march brandon jones out there and save the money till next year... Theres no point in spending money jus to spend it and compete with the marlins for 3rd place....

Lowe fits well with this ballclub cause anytime these strikeout maniacs face him, they make him look like a REAL GOOD pitcher. Wren would be foolish to sit back and not spend that extra cash on a pitcher who will be better than Morton, Reyes and probably Vazquez.

Lowe wants to play for a team that will no doubt be in contention next year. and im glad he doesnt want to come because he wants 5 years and 16+ per season which at his age is ridiculous. also chipperowns people want dunn because he is consistent. you can count on him to hit at least 35 homers next season if healthy probably even more if mccann was behind him. yes the strikeouts are bad and the average is too but with his homers and OBP he more than makes up for his shortcomings. also if we are going to get a left fielder this is the year to do it. the market has multiple strong options so the price is down on guys like burrell and dunn.

Dunn doesn't make as much sense though because he does nothing to solve the Braves problem against LHP. Sure he's not terrible, but that .239/.359/.474 isn't exactly middle of the order caliber and neither are the numbers of any other RH on our team. Even Chipper has very little order from that side of the plate anymore. Burrell might not be as good as Dunn, but he comes quite a bit cheaper and he fills a huge hole against LHP (.276/.410/.540 career). The Braves have enough weapons against RHP without adding Dunn.

Uh, Storm,

Smoltz had reconstructive shoulder surgery this year. Dr. Andrews says Smoltz had the most damage of anyone he's ever repaired. And only one major league starting pitcher has ever come back from surgery to rebuild the labrum.

I'm a huge Smoltz fan, and you can't question his competitiveness or his heart. But if the Braves, who know his medical records inside out, aren't leaping at a chance to re-sign him, then I'm guessing he's a long shot to ever again be an effective pitcher.

nixa37 i agree in that burrell is #1 on my LF wish list but i dont think dunn would be terrible either, doesnt help our hitting against lefties but certainly improves power of team

Personally, I dont think I could ever watch the braves the same way if Smoltz were to leave

If we got vaquez to eat innings and not win games then why dont we stick with chuck james or someone like that. and as far as the veteran presence if we are able to old on smoltz and glavine thats some veteran presence right there. and i agree with the catcher my fault for not lookin in on that. all i'm sayin about first base is that kotchman was pretty much a flop at first base when we got him. he didnt produce like we hoped for and we ended up having to throw someone in for him at the end of the season.

Chuck James struggles to go more than 5 innings. Once he starts going through the order the 3rd time he's in trouble. Unless he makes a ton of improvement, there is no way he can give the Braves more than 170 IP. Vazquez is a solid pitcher that eats innings and he will only help us if we are competing for a playoff spot. He also has the stuff to put up a sub 4 ERA in the NL, which would obviously be a huge help in any playoff push.

As for Kotchman, I was never a big fan in the first place. Still, he's not as bad as he looked in Atlanta last year and we really just have to hope turns it around.

Looks like we can put this one to rest. I sincerely hope you guys do well in 09. Even with Peavy, we won't.

I guess we'll have to wait and see how the season pans out to find out if Wren was right in this case.