Giants Will Listen To Proposals Involving Sanchez

I think what Sabean means by "will listen" is he's hoping someone will blow him away with an offer. Some team that secretly values Sanchez as much as the Giants do.

Trading Sanchez now is a sell-low time. He bounced between the minors and majors,and relief and spot starts for all of 2006 & 2007. Last season was his first full season and he more than doubled his innings total from 2007. Sanchez's late season injury was contributed to a tired arm and his second half performance reflected that.

Sabean is not going to trade him for guys like Matsui, Blaylock, Encarnacion, Cantu, Nady, Kelly Johnson, etc.

Why do that when he can just sign players out of FA like Burrell, Dunn, Crede, Abreu who are all similar players in the production they would bring and positions they play, with the exception being Johnson who just doesn't fit as the Giants have 3 internal 2B options and an even better prospect a few years away.

Swisher makes sense in a trade, but even then I don't think Sanchez wold be involved. I think the Giants can fill the yankee's needs without including Sanchez.

In the end, Sabean will probably hold onto him because he won't get the deal he wants

Sabean has said on mulple occasions that defense at 1B is his number 1 priority. Basically ruling out Giambi, Dunn, Burrell, Blaylock, Encarnacion

"If he doesn't show any improvement in 2009, then I think that you can really believe that he'll never become a stud. But I think 2009 could very well be a breakout season for Jonathan Sanchez."

Agreed. this is then his make or break year especially with Alderson and Bumgarner on the horizon. To that end any GM worth his salt will realize that and not overvalue Sanchez. He is what he is, a prospect that has yet to develop any consistency and is 26 years old. If i were them I'd hold onto him too, hope he did well (but realize its against the NL West' offenses) and then try to sell a bit higher.

But then again, doesn't everyone want one of those? That's why the trade probably doesn't happen.

I like Sanchez a lot, but the reality is he still has much to prove and is not worth, alone, what the Giants want/need

I can totally see a trade working out between the Yankees and Giants regarding Jonathan Sanchez and Nick Swisher. I don't quite see Xavier Nady involved since he is a free agent after the year is over. Swisher would make more sense for the Giants since he would fit in nicely at 1B and help the club out ( i expect him to have a bounce back season) in the outfield if needed. Sanchez would provide a young lefty arm to the back end of the Yankees rotation. His name for me fits nicely with Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy, in my opinion. Here is how i see the trade breaking down:

Yankees:
Jonathan Sanchez LHP

Giants:
Nick Swisher 1B/OF
Alan Horne RHP
(Mid-Low level Prospect)

Hey ROlling: Happy holidays.

Why would the Yanks trade Swisher for something we don't really need? Why not hold to him and only trade him if for young of or SS prospect? We can sign Pettitte or have an open comp between HUghes, etc for the 5th spot. Sanchez is still an unknown quantity, just as HUghes is.

YanksFanSince78: Happy Holidays to you to! I do agree with you that Swisher for a SS or OF prospect makes a lot more since since the Yankees have a lot of pitchers "waiting in the wings" as you like to put it lol. What players would you or anyone who reads this comment suggest be a fair enough bounty for Swisher? Anyway i do feel like Jonathan Sanchez still hasn't reached his prime and if he can reach his potential he would be devastating in the Yankees rotation. He also frees up a little space to maybe involve Ian Kennedy in a trade without worrying that he might blossom with another team. You can't disagree that this rotation is nasty...
CC Sabathia, AJ Burnett, Chien Ming Wang, Joba Chamberlain, Jonathan Sanchez. In my opinion its a young rotation that if healthy would allow the Yankees to win 95-100 games.

PSKIP13 the Giants need a 1B badly because their offense right now isn't cutting it. Maybe a one on one deal of Jeff Larish 1B for Jonathan Sanchez LHP?

Bravesrockmysocks...
"The only pitcher on the Giants that I want on the Braves is Cain, and maybe Wilson."

Are you drunk???? You really wouldn't want Tim Lincecum?

You should watch a Giants game before you start commenting on our pitching, or maybe look at this years Cy Young trophy.

And...yep...he did have a forearm injury late in the year that resulted in his numbers being inflated...he's a strikeout pitcher...this guy's not just another lefty some team can get for a prospect stuck behind a veteran or a guy in the walk year of a contract. Giants fans like me know what we have in the guy and...if Sabean trades him, it better be for a proven good glove, big bat at third base or first base. (Sandoval's the third baseman because...they don't have anybody and they think Travis Ishikawa's at least a potentially great fielding, adequate hitter at first base. Sandoval's a first baseman or catcher over the long haul.)

midtown, I don't know what offseason you have been paying attention to, Saeban has done a great job this offseason, one of the better ones so far.

Posted by: B3NG4L | December 27, 2008 at 08:00 PM

Sabean is one of the worst GMs in all of baseball. Aside from his past blunders (e.g., trading Nathan, Liriano and Bonser for Pierzynski), this offseason he signed Renteria for 2 years / $18 million with an option. Add to that the fact that the Giants farm system hasn't developed a single respectable position player in almost a decade and, yes, Sabean qualifies as a moron.

i think it would depend on what he does in 09. if he has a nother good year then i'd say he'd be a type A. matsui on the other hand, even with a huge 09, probably will suffer because of the injuries in 08 and end up like giambi did, a non-compensation FA.

i dont get it, cantu was productive as a cleanup hitter, his defensive suck, but it is improving.
and you cant tell me honestly that cantu willnt be a upgrade at cleanup or at 1st and 3rd. his OB is distort by his lack of walks. but that improves in time.

man you guys make it look like cantu is a bum (haha bum and SF). he had 29 homers and i remember one shot he hit the top of a car sign in AT&T that keep him from 30 hrs

Midtown

"Sabean is one of the worst GMs in all of baseball. Aside from his past blunders (e.g., trading Nathan, Liriano and Bonser for Pierzynski), this offseason he signed Renteria for 2 years / $18 million with an option. Add to that the fact that the Giants farm system hasn't developed a single respectable position player in almost a decade and, yes, Sabean qualifies as a moron."

Statements like these crack me up. Sabean has made some excellent trades. Let's see he traded for Kent, Snow, Nen, Burks, and Schmit. The only guy noteworthy he gave up on those trades was Matt William and Kent smokes him!! Unfornately the 04 offseason was a disaster. Bonds knee never healed and all the veterans they signed to make one last run fell apart. They were in a win now mode and had 7 consecitive winning seasons until Bonds knee injury. Anybody who's paying attention can see by 2010 this team has a shot to be very young and competing at a very high level.

What SS do you want them to sign? Renteria is decent pick up on a team with zero veterans in the infield. He's proven to be an excellent hitting NL SS and if we get average glove work from him the team and fans will be take it over last years mess at SS.

The only Nady trade I see the Giants making is straight up for Randy Winn. Yes, Randy's a bit more expensive ($8M - but the Yankees don't care about money. Then again, Nady's getting a raise this year, so it could be equal.) The Yanks would get a .300 hitter who can play a respectable CF and the Giants would get a starting OF (to replace the one they'd be giving up) who can hit a 20-25 homers. Nady's a right handed batter, so his power wouldn't be sapped by the dimensions of AT&T Park. The Giants could kick in a middling prospect (if it mattered) just to "cover" the extra dough.

They'd both be FAs after the season.

But Nady's not a 3B, which is what the Giants would be interested in for Sanchez. Nady for Sanchez straight up would never happen, let alone even be discussed.

Defeats the purpose of the trade as we are trying to unload a OF and make space. Plus the Yanks are trying to get younger so Winn wouldn't be attractive to them.

that rob the marlins from having the first infield with 30 hrs

It would end up being more than a one-for one, but, still, I'm surprised the name Jermaine Dye hasn't yet come up. Consider Sanchez and another high level prospect (maybe someone who has done well at Double-A) for JD. Again, JD has more homers and RBI than any other AL outfielder since 2005 (including Manny) and there is a club option for 2010.

midtown you want a more recent good trade?
trade for randy winn who has hit over .300 past 2 years and has played gold glove caliber RF
he also traded away the bad contracts of matt morris and ray durham to get some of that money back
are you sayin SF will not be good in 2010 ?

do you know how many prospects will be up by then?
Posey, Villalona,Gillaspie
i can name alot more and all of them will be studs
Bumgarner,Alderson

you obviously know nothing about the giants by saying lincecum cain and molina are the only good players

Brian Wilson= all star closer 2nd in NL saves
pablo sandoval= .340 avg. last year
randy johnson can still get it done
barry zito had pretty solid 2nd half
jonathan sanchez was pitching very well until he tried to pitch through injuries
we've also added some good bullpen arms

and renteria hit well over .300 2 years ago (which was last time he was in NL )
he is still an upgrade over the circus we had at SS last year

"We're going to have to be open-minded," Sabean said, although he repeated that he wouldn't obtain a player who's eligible for free agency after 2009.

Waiting until Spring Training also could be an option for the Giants, who'll know by then whether left-hander Noah Lowry will have sufficiently recovered from two forearm surgeries. If Lowry's fit, Sanchez would be bumped from the rotation into the bullpen and could be expendable.

--------------------------------

That last part Haft is wrong. Sanchez wouldn't be sent to the 'pen, Lowry's the one going to the bullpen.

Any ways Lowry is an non factor as his arm is toast.

That should be enough to extend Lincecum and sign free agent Matt Holliday. A true middle of the order bat.

Schierholtz can step right in for Randy Winn in right. Maybe Buster Posey files through the system and takes over for Bengie Molina.

bleacherbum,

you make some good points but don't go acting like Wilson is ALL THAT. He's an average closer at best. his all star game appearnce was ridiculous. Closers that were better in the NL last year in no particular order were:

1-Lidge
2-Valverde
3-Wagner
4-Wood
5-Capps
6-Cordero
7-Fuentes
8-Gregg
9-Broxton or Saito
10-I'd also rather have Carlos Marmol.

So don't go acting like Wilson is all that because he's absolutely not.

You do make some other good valid points, ie Sandoval. I like the Zito one, haha except they play two halves in baseball not one.

Why should the Yankees want a guy with a 5+ ERA in the National League West?

Lets be real here guys. I don't care if Sanchez can throw 189 mph with his brashole...he has a 5.18 career era in the worst division in MLB and is 26 now...not 22 like Hughes or Kennedy. At THIS point in his career...to say he = Ollie Perez is being KIND. He has the tools to put it together, but not the numbers to fetch a top player...so stop grossly over-valuing. Also, if you or the Yankees really felt somehow that he DID = Ollie...the Yankees would just sign Ollie!!

As for "not needing a pitcher"...that is incorrect!! Burnett, Joba and Hughes are all quality arms...but all three are an injury waiting to happen. Furthermore, the Yankees (except for Coke...and he may be kept in the pen) have no ML ready lefty starters...so he does make some sense. However, I have said on here many times already that unless the Yankees are looking to dump Matsui to get Manny...they have NO need to trade ANY OF. Matsui is the DH, Damon in LF, Gardner in CF, Nady in RF, Swish backing up all three plus Tex.

For those of you saying that Matsui has "no trade value" you are nit wits. The guy is .290 22 100 every year and has ONE year left on his contract. Budget conscience teams would LOVE to have one year of him at DH vs sign Burrell, Dunn, etc to a huge multi. He needs to stay in the AL due to his knees, but he obviously HAS value.

Midtown

All MLB is overpaid!!!

We know Renteria's best years are behind him but, you never answered my question about which SS you wanted the Giants to sign instead of Renteria. Fural? We all know he got what he wanted. If we go with Burriss that's 4 rookies on the infield. No thanks.

philsWS

what's the job of the closer? To me it's closing the game and Wilson was top 5 in the NL at save rate. That's what I'm looking for in a closer. Slam the the door please. Also Wilson did look nasty in the allstar game.

I'd like to see the Giants give Sanchez another year to develope. No reason to sell now.

Everyone keeps bringing up Sanchez's ERA when trying to convince others that he's no good. Give it up. If you really still feel that one stat, especially ERA and ERA alone, is the deciding factor of what makes a good pitcher or what proves (or disproves) upside, then you should just stop talking about stats all together. Seriously. Just stop.

This from Sunday's SF Chronicle story by Giants beat writer Henry Schulman:
---
"Sabean acknowledged he might have to be more open minded about trading a pitcher for a hitter now that he has Johnson. On the other hand, Johnson's presence allows Jonathan Sanchez to drop to the fifth spot in the rotation, a better fit.

"Sabean also sounded reluctant to move a starter until he sees if Noah Lowry is healthy and able to compete in spring training.

"Sabean said a "late-developing" free-agent market could help the Giants land a hitter but reiterated he will be "very selective." Adam Dunn, Ty Wigginton and Joe Crede remain available.

"Our dilemma is there are seemingly more outfield choices than infield choices, and we prefer an infield choice," he said. "We just have to have patience. If it takes through the month of January, or even the start of spring training, let's let the thing play out and be nimble enough if something happens."

--
I love Hot Stove talk more than anybody. But, let's be fair...Yankees' fans see "potential" in Hughes and Kennedy and wouldn't deal them for a Swisher-like guy...or for a prospect hitter. But, they figure Sanchez is ALL "potential" and that the Giants haven't gotten enough from him to merit getting a 3B/1B hitter for the guy.

Hughes, Sanchez, Kennedy ... the list goes on and on...and it's all about potential. There are few Lincecums to come along...fewer Matt Cain types...so, the Giants can be patient with Sanchez because...um...Lowry's a .500 fluff-baller with nerve damage and Zito and Johnson are huge question marks.

As a Giants fan for life...I'd propose they offer Manny a respectable (in his eyes) face-saving contract ... put him in left field, sign a corner infielder, keep Sanchez and ...maybe enable me to enjoy a sterling pennant run after 40 years waiting for a
World Series for my guys.

They did offer Zito over-the-moon money...to be the face of the franchise...so, don't let the fact that Sabean never negotiates publicly fool you into the thinking the Giants can't swoop in and make Manny feel loved, respected and compensated for 3 years...you know?

Other Giants fans are way off...on the "prospects." I'm blown away by the prospects other fans are mentioning...kids with you big upsides. The Giants "kids" are 26, 27, 28...etc. That makes them journeyman. Sandoval and Burris are position prospects. Posey could be down the line. Young fans can wait. I'm 52. I can't wait 5, 6 years to maybe build a winner.

So...keep Sanchez..sign Manny...or, at least Burrell...trade Fred Lewis to give some team speed an a little pop...win now for tomorrow I might die...probably lamenting another 3-2 loss at AT&T Park!

I admire the Yankees ownership...they pay to build winners.

"Everyone keeps bringing up Sanchez's ERA when trying to convince others that he's no good. Give it up. If you really still feel that one stat, especially ERA and ERA alone, is the deciding factor of what makes a good pitcher or what proves (or disproves) upside, then you should just stop talking about stats all together. Seriously. Just stop".

Posted by: lrs77 | December 28, 2008 at 02:50 PM

Not sure what on earth your argument is. You say, "just stop"...but have no reason why. Reason? There IS none! We're not talking about a relief pitcher who had one or two bad outings that inflated his ERA. We're talking about a starter...so ERA is VERY relevant...and the bottom line is that Sanzchez' sucked this year in worst division in MLB, PERIOD.

no we need a cf and the guy can run catch and throw thats beter then what we have now

You would have been better off listing guys like K-Rod and Papelbon. Wilson may not have a sexy ERA, but a closer's job is to get the save.

Posted by: mtzxc | December 28, 2008 at 03:20 PM

Do you understand the concept of the save? It's not a reflection of a closer's ability, unless he has a ton of blown saves, but rather shows us how many close games a team wins. A journeyman relief pitcher could have had 30 saves or so with the angels last year due to all the chances he would have gotten, that wouldn't make him a good closer. It's not quantity when it comes to saves that makes a good closer. And if you look at Wilson's other numbers, he is not overly impressive. To wrap it up, saves are a reflection of a team not of a player even though they are a player stat

Sanchez is ready to break out with a good year. Cards trade one of their excess outfielders (take your pick among Duncan, Mather, Schumaker) plus 3rd base prospect that major league ready (Freeze) plus young pitcher (Mortensen/Todd) for Sanchez.

We should also ask about Velez to play 2nd base but that's asking too much!

williemaysfield, i was just trying to point out that saves are not a good indictator of a pitcher's value

kuyote

Setting the record straight... The Giants cut Rajai Davis 8 months ago.

Is Crede the answer at 3B with a career OPS+ of 93 in a hitter's park and back to back years of not playing 100 games?

Soto

I'm on board for Wigginton.

1-Lidge - Yes
2-Valverde -Yes
3-Wagner - No, only 27 saves to Wilson's 45.
4-Wood - Yes
5-Capps - No, only 21 saves
6-Cordero - Francisco? No, only 34.
7-Fuentes - No, only 30
8-Gregg - No, only 29
9-Broxton or Saito - Combined they only had 32.
10-I'd also rather have Carlos Marmol. - And I would rather have Chris Perez.

You would have been better off listing guys like K-Rod and Papelbon. Wilson may not have a sexy ERA, but a closer's job is to get the save.

Posted by: mtzxc | December 28, 2008 at 03:20 PM

Well by your logic Wilson is as good as Lidge. He did have the same amount of saves. Wagner got injured. He is WAYYY better than Wilson. And if you could see i left it to NL only.

As said Saves are VERY overrated. check out BAA, OBP and OPS. In those categories Wilson is LAST in BAA. his is .263 while the next closest to him is Francisco Cordero at .235

You want someone comparable to Wilson, try Salomon Torres. Oh and Wilson isn't close to Wagner.

Wagner's line .185 baa, .228 OBP, .517 OPS

while Wilson is .263 baa, .342 OBP, .732 OPS.

Salomon Torres' line is .253 BAA, .332 OBP, .680 OPS.

Giant Deric,

alright I'm not being ignorant. I said i wouldn't base it on saves. Look above and i state what i base it on. Every team in my list would rather have who they have as their closer than Wilson. Enough said. Many of them may not have as many saves but opportunities have something to do with that. His baa, OBP and OPS are horrible compared to the list i put together. He is AT BEST the 11th best closer in the NL.

Phils,
For some reason, you really hate the Giants. From that list you put up of closers you believe are "better" than Brian Wilson, how many of them just completed their first full year in the bigs? That's right...none. Any team would want a reliever who touches 100mph on the gun and was second in the league in saves. Would you put money on it that his era is in the 4+ range this year? I'm sure you wouldn't. Cuz I would take that bet in a second (his era being under 4, that is).

Not a terrible offer, but...never gonna happen. Don't know why anyone thinks Lincecum could be had, but as an impartial observer (I couldn't care less about the Giants, either way), I really don't think San Fran would even consider moving their young ace. I really don't care who the Yanks- or anyone, for that matter- offered. Cain, maybe; but Lincecum is off limits...or at least he should be.

Personally, I'm not crazy about Brackman, but even if I DID like him- and I DO like Hughes- you don't trade cost-controlled young superstar pitching for prospects, no matter how highly touted. Cano and Nady can't make up the difference either.

I'm not saying it's a stupid proposition, because it isn't; it's just not realistic IMO.

"Every team in my list would rather have who they have as their closer than Wilson. Enough said. "

unless you're a general manager for one of these teams don't make assumptions, it's just dumb... it was his 1st year in the job no closer is instantly good except rare exceptions like papelbon. I doubt a team would rather have wood, fuentes, gregg, saito.. you know why cus they're not on that team anymore hah you're dumb man. Enough said.

Philswschamps-

Brian Wilson is not as bad as you think.

In 47 the games where Wilson pitched in a save situation, he had 41 Saves.
He pitched 47 innings and had 54 K's against 19 BB's, 1 HBP, and 42 Hits. That's a WHIP of 1.31, K/BB ratio of 2.84, and K/9 of 10.34.

He also gave up 20 ER in those 47 innings for an ERA of 3.82. He also saw 16 inherited runners and only 1 scored.

Hardly a closer who is unreliable or middle of the road. The fact that he is only 26 years old, just finished his first full season in the majors, can hit 100MPH, and is believed to have developed a solid thrid pitch now, I'd say almost every team in the league would like him. Of the guys you named, probably only Carlos Marmol is more highly regarded.

just in case you were wondering, comparing the stats you used. In those 47 games, the BAA was .230, OB% was .340, and the Slugging% was .329. That's only a .649 OPS...

if any of you cared to pay attention to it i was prompted to speak up when a giants fan spoke up and was defending the teams current players and referenced 5 players and mentioned that Wilson was an all star and 2nd in the league in saves. I basically said that was misleading.

Yes for almost every player you could pull out a set number of stats and it would look better, but you can't do that. You go with what they actually did. Could he be better than he was last year yes, but there's no guarantee of that and to think he's the 2nd best closer in the NL is ridiculous and I never said he couldn't be good, but just because he throws 100 means absolutely nothing if its not over the plate, hence the walks. If he harnessed it and DID develop a third pitch that was effective then yes he could be good, but don't go saying he's all that yet because of 41 saves because AS I"VE MENTIONED, his periphery stats (when you don't pull out the bad ones) are below average for NL closers.

And Jimmie for the 5th time i believe I have given reasons, (BAA, OBP and OPS). THey were all below average for NL Closers. Do you honestly believe if they held the All Star game at the end of the year he'd be on the team?

And yes Lidge could fall back next year and most certainly won't replicate his 2008 season but even if he did, I expect he'll be better than Wilson. that's just my opinion and last i checked i was allowed one.

I also think Linceum is the best pitcher in MLB along with Halladay. Do you have a problem with that?

If the Giants really want to do add a hitter without giving up any pitching, they should just go after 1B Adam Dunn. He would make a nice 2-3 year guy until top prospect Angel Villalona is ready. Giants haven't spent much this off-season and they need a proven hitter who can hit clean-up and drive in runs, not another year of Bengie Molina as clean-up, who should be hitting 5th or 6th. I think a 3 year $36 million deal should get it done. Or maybe the Giants will let prospects Travis Ishikawa and John Bowker battle it out, and they also have that new killer guy named Jesus Guzman they just signed from the A's. He just set a new winter league RBI mark yesterday with 67.

bleacherbum,

ok wait, you want me to be impressed by his performance in an EXHIBITION? really? I'd rather see how he did down the stretch or in crucial situations or against better competition.