Reds Sign Willy Taveras To Two-Year Deal

Corey Patterson, Part Deux!!!!!! Dusty Baker's Fantasy Fulfilled.

Who's ABs is Taveras going to take???

But, umm, why a 2 year deal? Ridiculous.

lol dusty

Dickerson, Taveras, Bruce is a pretty interesting outfield..

YOu can still sign Baldelli, considering that even though he was misdaignosed you still don't know how if he could play everday. Maybe a Baldelli as a 4th OF?

Baldelli can now become a White Sox.

I think the Reds can still land Baldelli. A lot of people are pounding this deal, but don't forget Taveras hit .320 when in 07' when the Rockies went to the World Series. This gives the Reds a lead off man that they have desperately needed. I'm not sure about two years though. If they can land Baldelli or Wiggington along with him, not a bad at all.

YFS78, Why would the Yanks have wanted to sign Taveras? They don't NEED a guy who can steal 60 bases, have too many outfielders as it is, and Taveras hit .250 in the NL West. Even if last year was a bad fluke, imagine what he would be like in the unltra-competitive AL East.

Yeah I'm not happy with Dickerson, Taveras, and Bruce starting everyday. While I'm ok with this signing, I'd still like a better option in LF. Dickerson needs to platoon with Taveras, not be an everyday starter until he can put together a full season of what he did at the end of last year. We still need that Power bat from the Right side of the plate. The reds need to open the pocket book and land Manny lol. I don't think they should over pay for Pat Burrell

Gardner, according to most "outsiders", is the Yanks designated "can't hit but can run like a beast" player. Taveras would've been redundant..but thanks anyway. lol.

charliescrabbles: No good? You can still sign another OF bat ya know?

Unless the Reds were planing on winning in 09 there is no reason not to give Dickerson the starting slot in CF till he proves he isn't deserving of it.

Dusty isn't comfortable with it, tell that toothpick chewing moron to deal with it.

WHEW! Thanks for saving Kenny from himself, Walt!

Is it wrong for me to be extremely happy about this signing simply because it means Kenny Williams can't be tricked by his grinderness and attempt to sign him?

Only if you send the Reds Dye and Lillibridge for Bailey and another minor leaguer.

time for an OBP showdown b/w Gathright and Taveras, first to get theirs 40 points higher than their average is playing PS3....

YanksFanSince78: I don't think it is. Despite his crappy numbers, Bailey still registers very high in the minds of the Reds. They still think he can succeed.

no way i trade Bailey for Matsui or Nady or Swisher or anybody the Yanks are offering. the Reds want a righty, so i'd be more inclined to trade for Nady, but frankly i dont think he's worth anything more than a few middling prospects. he's an average LF defensively with an .800 OPS. while there is value in that, it isnt really that much. i'd much rather get Swisher, as the Reds sorely need OBP. and i would imagine Nady would cost more than Swisher, as Swisher had a career low year last year and Nady had a career high year. give us Swisher for Josh Roenicke and youve got a deal.

check the stats grizzlyfox. Willy Taveras = Norris Hopper.

"Baldelli can now become a White Sox.

Posted by: ChiSoxKilla23 | December 27, 2008 at 12:18 PM"

Don't jinx it!

Oh god, please Baldelli to the White Sox. That would be phenomenal.

"The Reds desperately need guys that can get on base, Taveras is so not one of these guys."

True, but...

"Dude, guys that get on base only clog the bases."

-Dusty

Gvelta, I have no problem agreeing that the NL West is the weakest division, but a low batting average in that division doesn't necessarily mean much in comparison to the rest of baseball. After all, with the unbalanced schedule, all year Taveras had to deal with Lincecum and Cain on the Giants; Billingsley and Lowe on the Dodgers; Webb, Haren, and Big Unit on the D-Backs; and Peavy on the Padres. Those are tough battles for any hitter...

Huge downgrade to Hairston? Hairston is a lifetime .260 hitter and is not known for stealing bases throughout his career.

Taveras is an upgrade for defense in CF and if he returns to 2007 form, will be worth every penny we're paying him.

I honestly think Reds fans WANT something to complain about and WANT to lose every year. Just like Cubs fans, Reds fans LIKE to lose.

This should open up the Juan Pierre Sweepstakes now that we have a winner for Willy Taveras

Posted by: MikeClarke | December 27, 2008 at 02:20 PM

Actually, I think this pretty much ends the Juan Pierre sweepstakes. This was the worst signing if you're a Dodgers fan. Who else is going to take Pierre off our hands? The Mets for Castillo? We resigned Blake ending that. The White Sox for Mike MacDougal? Maybe if the Dodgers kicked in half the difference between their salaries. In other words... Pierre remains a highly paid 4th OF for the Dodgers.

Its not Hopper's fault that the Reds were managed by the leagues worst manager last year who couldn't understand that Patterson was/is horrible.

The difference between Hopper/Taveras is rather simple. Taveras got a starting gig and turned that into people thinking that he was a starting CF, while Hopper never got the shot and people think he's a AAAA/bench player.

They have similar skills, Hopper however is the better offensive player because of his OBP and actually more power. Which isn't a compliment to Hopper. Taveras just stinks.

This pisses me off, I wanted Willy on the White Sox, regardless of his sporadic numbers throughout his YOUNG career, the KID has speed, he's shown that he can hit for a decent average, it may not be silver slugger type but it manages well and he can flash some leather.

This is what I see in Willy IMO

schellis,

I'd have to check the game logs, but if I recall correctly, the Rockies made their late season run largely without Taveras, who missed a lot of time with a bad hammy.

Ryan Spilborghs and Cory Sullivan played CF when Willy was hurt. Spilly doesn't have the defensive range or the speed, but he's an on-base machine. Sullivan's a mediocre on-base guy but that's better than Willy!

Wow, I Like Baseball, I'm glad you're not running the White Sox. Didn't you get enough of the same with Jerry Owens? It's the same thing - speed, range on defense, no pop or OBP. As someone said earlier, you can't steal first. Baldelli, if he can get past his injury issues, is really intriguing - I think he's the kind of guy that's worth a flier for the Sox.

Even if Hopper is horrible, is Taveras really that much better then him? Isn't it close enough that there is a fairly decent chance that Hopper if given a full year could put up similar numbers.

Its not like Taveras is Jose Reyes or anything.

If the Reds are to get better then need to stop throwing millions at mediocre players and give the jobs to guys making the minimum. More times then not you'll find a cheap guy in your organization that can do the job just as well as someone that is right around the replacement player level.

I give the CF job to Dickerson/Hopper and don't look back. I'm more then willing to bet that some combination of the two will be superior to Taveras.

"WOW," Kswissreject, you can't compare Taveras to someone like Owens when first of all Owens has never stolen 68 bases before, and don't pull the "oh, well he can with his speed," cause it's not just about speed secondly Owens has never had a full season in the Bigs and pop? didn't the White Sox get enough pop with Konerko, Thome, Dye, Swisher(last year), healthy Crede not to mention Alexei and Quentin, the White Sox need someone that could steal them bases, when you say that Orlando Cabrera was your source of speed last year with a whopping 19 SB....you ain't doin' too well, if the sox were to get Taveras, it's a chance to take, a good one, caues for one he isn't gonna cost millions and two i don't know if you read or looked up his stats but he's capable of having a mid to upper .300 OBP

again
-- IMO!

Taveras has played four years and in only one of those four years (when he played the least amount of games and had his least amount of ABs) did he post anything close to a .350 average.

The only way Taveras would sniff a near .400 (upper .300) OBP would be if he were to hit around say .375-.380

There is also the fact that up till last year Taveras was near the break even point with his steals. Meaning that he was very close to the point with his sucess rate that it was actually hurting his club. I think this number is around 73%. If you percentage is lower then that you are actually hurting your club more then helping in the long run.

I don't think he could sustain the numbers that he had in his good year, which honestly still wasn't all that great.

He's not good unless he can hit .300 minimum.

I heard that Dusty just hired Nefi Perez and Lenny Harris as spring training advisers...LOL

I'm not sure why you're bringing Swisher into the conversation. To compare one bad season for his BA to what you perceive as one bad year of Taveras' OBP? Taveras was slightly below his career OBP last season, which does not indicate that it was a fluke at all. What was a fluke was 2007, where his BABIP was, I believe, around .370 (which is a completely unsustainable number-average is something like .270, I think). Generally, the ability to take a walk does not fluctuate like a player's ability to get a base hit.

I'd pick the .350 mark... but for the Swisher part, you're right with the inability to get a base hit and not being able to draw a walk as good as someone else, such as Swisher.

The point I was trying to get to is that I really don't think Taveras is gonna be horrible, like people are saying he is or GOING to be
He's young and versatile (IMO)

Willy is 26 gonna be 27 soon, he's still young and he's still a good player to experiment with. He's cheap and he can hit for a good average, despite his .251 mark last season

he can give you 35+ stolen bases each year

I would have preferred Steamin' Willie Beamen personally.

Thank you Ranger Red
...for NOT being ignorant

You are correct that Patterson and Taveras is not a fair comparison.

People who say that are just bashing without thinking.

Clearly every person who thinks that Willy Taveras stinks lives in their mother's basement and has never actually watched a baseball game before. They just look at the numbers the player puts up and base their judgments on those, rather than watching the actual games, and then post their comments regarding those statistics on the interwebs... Anyway, 2 years, $6.25 million. Super!

Taveras' best season was in COLORADO. Eventhough he hit .320, his OPS+ was still well below average. The worst part is he's under a manager who thinks speed is the only pre-requisite to be a leadoff man so you'll likely see Willy get 500-600 at bats next season.

2/$6.25MM?!?!?!

Wow...Reds fans, I'm sorry. Truly, truly sorry. Godspeed.

"Yeah... Corey Patterson hits home runs sometimes. Otherwise, they're the same player."

After reading my post, it does look like I am defending Taveras. I am not saying that Willy is great or nothing more than a 4th outfielder. Still better tahn Corey at this point in their career. Corey was dropped by Boras and had to sign a Minor League contract with the Nats with an invitation to Spring Training. I don't understand a two year deal for Willy. The difference between the two is not great enough to hold much.

"The worst part is he's under a manager who thinks speed is the only pre-requisite to be a leadoff man so you'll likely see Willy get 500-600 at bats next season."

You hit that right on...good old Dusty.

I'll agree that Taveras isn't a good leadoff man but I think he's a valuable centerfielder. Back when he was in Houston, he would make phenominal plays in center and could go 1st to home on a double with ease. I'm not sure if I'm recalling correctly, but I think he may have even done it on a walk-off single. Plus, he's stolen more than 30 bases in every real season he's played in.
If only he could learn to get on base he would be worth at least double that contract.

Hey, Walt, maybe Omar Moreno is available too!

(I'm actually a Reds fan - a VERY frustrated one. This is the worst signing in baseball this offseason. Holy crap. Have we learned nothing in the last 25 years??)

That's a pretty good contract for someone that has just been non-tendered -- this is a good low price pick up for the Reds and I still don't get why fans of baseball are complaining about Taveras can't you see that there aren't too many young ball players that can steal over 45 bases a year
it's not like his BA is horrible either, if he gets on base it'll be because of a base hit, for his .obp isn't too high, but it could get there
he's young

Great move juust get rid of E.E. He SUCKS!!!!!!!!We now need atkins or dye and need pitching. Get Sheets or Penny.

The Reds were right to dump Krivsky. He'd made a few good moves in his tenure with the Reds, getting Brandon Phillips for Jeff Stevens, getting Arroyo for Wily Mo Pena/getting rid of Wily Mo Pena, and getting Jared Burton and Josh Hamilton in the Rule 5 draft. Thus far, the Hamilton trade has been pretty even, but I think Hamilton's a lot more likely to sustain his level of production than Volquez, who has control issues.

2006, he drained the Reds to get guys like Gary Majewski, Royce Clayton, Rheal Cormier, Eddie Guardado, and Todd Hollandsworth. The Reds still missed the playoffs. 2007, they were awful and dumped Jerry Narron (fine), replaced him with Dave Miley #2 in Pete Mackanin, and then hired the worst manager in baseball (the man who induces Corey Patterson/Willy Taveras signings and has a reputation for destroying pitchers) to replace him.

He re-signed Scott Hatteberg when everyone knew Votto was taking over last year, and ended up having to release him at midseason, he gave David Ross a long-term deal, signed Alex Gonzalez to a huge deal, gave Cordero too much money to be marginally better than David Weathers. Krivsky was awful with free agents and did the team a huge disservice with every signing.

That said, while I firmly believe Krivsky is nearly pure evil, Jocketty has been just about as lousy. Dunn for Owings might work out, since the Reds fans seem to hate Adam Dunn and he wouldn't have been brought back. Nick Masset may be decent in the bullpen (Richar is pretty useless), and I hate the Taveras signing and the Hernandez trade to put Ryan Hanigan back on the bench.

Posted by: TheStockholmSyndrome | December 31, 2008 at 10:26 AM

Majewski...Reds win this trade. he was worthless, but so were kearns, lopez, and wagner after being traded. reds got bray and darryl thompson out of the deal.

Dusty was the owners call, not WK. Also, CP and JHJ were in the same boat.

Coco Cordero- Reds went from the worst bullpen in the NL with Weathers as the closer to the 4th best in the NL with Coco as the closer. Good move.

To put it simply, when WK took over, the Reds were shameful with no hope of leaving the basement. In 2008, thanks largely to WK's move, the Reds came in with expectations. This season was more disappointing than usual because they were supposed to be competing for the playoffs.

$3 million/year is BELOW league average, people. And for a guy like Willy Taveras, that is a bargain. I really wish people would quit saying that this is a HUGE deal or other bull crap like this. It doesn't logically make sense.

For someone to sit and say that Corey Patterson and WIlly Taveras are the same player, obviously hasn't looked at the back of a baseball card in ages, let alone watched a MLB baseball game. The statistics aren't even close in comparison. Willy Taveras is the better baseball player.

In 3 of the 4 baseball seasons he has played, he had posted a .291, .278, and .320 BA - had posted progressively BETTER OBP's of .325, .333, and .367.

It's called an "off-year". Players have them. Look at EVERY decent player in major league history, and you will find that a player has a bad year every now and then. It's the nature of the sport. There's not a SINGLE position player in baseball that was consistently SPECTACULAR every year since Ted Williams, and that's comparing stats from year to year for a particular player.

The Reds are a small-market team, so therefore we will get small-market players. Players that can be under team control for 3-5 years, and players that will sign 2-3 years contracts for 3-4 million a year. Sure, we'll have the occasional player like Arroyo or Harang making good money, but the majority of the players we get will be small-market players. That's UNTIL we can start to be a winning ball club. People need to get out of the mindset that we can go out and spend like West Coast teams, Boston, or New York, because it just isn't going to happen.

With that mindset, maybe we should've went out and got Juan Pierre, a VERY similar player to Willy Taveras, for 3x what Mr. Taveras is making. That would be the "smart" choice, right?

Reds fans never cease to amaze me. We sign a DECENT lead-off man (something of which we haven't had in a long, long time) and there's non-stop complaining about one year he was sub-par.

I agree 100% with Rob Dicken, it's like you guys hold grudges against a YOUNG player for having a crappy year, which barely was a sh*tty year cause he did lead all of Major League in stolen bases, you can never have enough speed. It's like everyone acts as if he's 33 or 34 years old
he's JUST turning 27

this is why i wished that Ken Williams would had snagged him after he was stupidly non-tendered by the Rockies....he had to have not gotten along with someone in the front office cause you don't just let the major league leader in stolen bases go like that, especially at his age.

Oh for the record Rob Dicken, Ted Williams wasn't the last one to be consistently good

ahem* Henry Aaron =)