Francoeur-Greinke Rumor Shot Down

IFiredScottBoras,

haha. First off this trade of Francoeur for Greinke is pure speculation and BAD speculation at that. Secondly the Yanks are likely going to outbid the Braves for Burnett. Braves fans need to calm down and think logically as to why would the Royals ever do this deal. Are they searching for outfielders with sub .300 OBP?

"WOW the guy has not finished outside the top 3 rightfielders in assists since he came in the league. He also has more assists than any other major league outfielder since 2005 and thats fact not guessing."

Because assists is the only important stat defensively, am I right? Alfonso Soriano is right up there every year leading in assists as well, he's just rockin the glove. I can't believe he didn't win a GG this year!

He has a bad RF, a bad ZF and there were 14 RFs rated higher on defense alone in 2008. And THAT is a fact.

HAHAHAHAHA YA right... ill throw everything i own in the river if dayton did that.. he already stated that it would take a boat load of guys to get greinke, not for some pos that has never reached his potential and cant take a walk...

im actually a little surprised that you decided to post this on here tim. its complete and utter BS from some dumb$hit boston guy

"11 is decent?"

You're taking that quote out of context. I was talking about 2006-2007. 48 HRs over 2 years is, in fact, decent.

Greinke may very well cost more than Peavy, even though the Padres seem desperate to trade Peavy. Greinke is only now arb-eligible, and won't hit the open market for three years. Peavy IS locked up through 2013, but at salaries of 8, 15, 16, 17, and 22 per year. Over the next three years, Greinke should be at least 20M cheaper than Peavy. That alons could make Greinke more expensive to acquire. The Braves are sure doing a great job to remodel their rotation.

Yeah, when Miguel Olivo is one of your better hitters, you might consider a deal like this. We all know that more prospects would be involved. A deal like this happening isn't too hard to believe. Royals want a few guys who can play everyday for a guy who pitches every 5 days. Sometimes the team with the need to sell tickets, will lose in a deal for someone who plays everyday.

"Yeah, when Miguel Olivo is one of your better hitters, you might consider a deal like this."

David Dejesus?, Billy Butler, Alex Gordon, Mike Aviles, Mike Jacobs, and etc..

they are all worse than olivo... your a moron

"your a moron"
Oxymoron?

Wow like 2 guys out of a group of 5 who are better. Um Alex Gordon is a bust.

"1. RBIs and RISP average don’t matter? Wow.
2. “Not an important stat as it relies on team performance more than personal performance”. Gee, I’d rather have something that ties in with team performance. Call me crazy.
3. Not at all in love with Francouer. I think he’s a good young player who’s getting a lot of crap for one bad year. One bad year in which he still had 33 doubles and 71 RBI. And 14 assists.
4. How is 73 HRs and 324 RBIs, with 59 OF assists vs. 23 errors in 3 ½ season by age 24 crap? Oh, right. Those things don’t matter. I just don’t get it. Sure, he hasn’t lived up to the hype, but how many do?
5. Francouer, again, is by no means elite. But he's certainly not horrible.

Look, Greinke is very good. You're using one bad year to enhance your argument that Francouer is no good. Greinke had 76 ERA+ in 2005 and a WHIP of 1.56. Is that fair?"

Daslied, im going to only type this to you one time, because if you don't comprehend where Im coming from then you just dont view these stats the way I do. You can look at stats any way you want, but it's not a traditional way most serious baseball fans or FOs would grade a player.

1. RBIs depend a great deal on placement in the lineup. You can take an average hitter and put him in the 5 hole, and if the front of the line up gets on base he gets RBIs. Yes, it's good to be a team player, but we're grading an individual here, and RBIs are not a reflection of someones skill.

2. Francoeur has has more than 1 bad year, he's had 2 very bad years and 1 average year as a full time player. Greinke has had one bad year, I already stated that, but he's had three season with #1 type of numbers. Franceour has never seen anything like that.

3. You're using stats picking and choosing to try and make your point. The fact is he's a bad defender. This is proven by his Range Factor and his Zone Factor. He has a phenominal arm, hence the number of assists. Like I said before, Soriano is in the same boat (but Francoeur isn't near that bad in range).

4. Francoeur is not horrible, but at this point he's been below average in his career. He had one great half year, and people fell in love with him. He has done nothing to show that he can replicate those numbers again. Yes, he's 24, but he isn't progressing. His OBP and OPS+ continue to fall and he's just not getting it so far. Can this change? Of course, but right now it doesnt look like it.

Greinke on the other hand has improved each year, posting incredible numbers for such a young age.

None of those guys are substantially more valuable than Olivo. Sure he is garbage, but so are the majority of their hitters.

Speculation is great but...
We don't have any idea all the players in such a trade, I do believe that since the Braves are waiting for Burnett,it would involve either Escobar or key pitching.
Cobra

Jreezy, you're an idiot.

IFiredScottBoras, he makes a great point...

one more thing

Royals 75-87 in the AL
Braves 72-90 in the NL

I could see this being an expanded deal:

Greinke and Guillen for Francoeur, Reyes, and Gorkys Hernandez?

The Braves get Greinke and Guillen gives them a power bat that can replace Frenchy.

The Royals dump Guillen's contract, land Francoeur, and get a desperately needed athletic CF prospect.

ya thats what im going to do now.. it amazes how dumb a human being can possibly be.. its truly sad

Bdlugz, I appreciate you being not completely condescending this time. :) That's said in a light tone, by the way.

No, I don't know stats like you. I know stats like the ones on the cards I bought when I was 8. I've watched the Braves since 1982, when I played little league. I believe I can tell when someone's crap. Francouer is not crap. Greinke is more valuable right now.

I'm not saying a swap would be fair. It certainly wouldn't. I don't agree that Greinke has had #1 numbers for three years. I don't agree that Francouer has had 2 very bad years. And please don't call me out for "using stats picking and choosing to try and make" my point. What exactly are you doing?

IFiredScottBoras --

Have you ever heard of On-Base Percentage? It's pretty neat.

Yeah, well the Braves dominated in the 90s if I recall, so who is the more storied franchise? Where were the Royals in the 90s? I don't recall. I was being sarcastic about Olivo anyways. Two of the guys you named, they acquired this off season.

"OBP is not the be-all end-all of player evaluation."

No, but barely anything you stated means anything. Offensively you can view OBP as one of the more important stats to scoring runs. He is horrible...so should have no value. You can hit .300 all you want like Juan Pierre, but if your OBP is only .320 then your not very good at helping your team win games.

this is a rumor that began during last winter, and keeps resurfacing as people talk about things in the lobby (i.e. Cano to the Dodgers, Jack Wilson to the Pirates - another eight-month-old rumot) - for one, I see any greinke deal bringing back talent just less than whatever it takes to land Peavy. 3 young players (inc. either Escobar or Kelly Johnson) and a ML pitcher like a JoJo, etc... minimum

Dierkes, please tell me this report is garbage.

I have a better idea --

Braves get Tony Pena Jr., Ross Gload

Royals get Jair Jurrjens

.351 last year, actually. Interestingly enough, .351 is nearly 15 points above average.

Maybe you were talking about "sub-par" in the golf sense?

Please advise.

Wow. Does anybody hear the sound of something flying over someone's head?

Oh Wikipedia must be lying then. Nearly "above-average" for a guy who was supposed to be a "5 tool player". So he is an average hitter. Wow. What a waste of the 2nd pick in 05.

scribbletone.. i agree it doesnt make sense... thats why greinke to the braves will never happen. and im fine with that

IFiredScottBoras, do you give people chances ?? or you expect everyone to just be ryan braun and hit as soon as they get to the bigs.. do you understand that most people from Gordons draft class like braun had an extra year in the minors. triple A to be exact.. gordon went straight from double A to the bigs..

give him time..

Hey, I have a crazy idea -- I will take a claim that you never made and disprove it!

I'll have to check the record, but I'm not sure I was ever making Gordon out to be a great player yet. He just finished his second year after being rushed to the majors. I think I'll be a little more patient with a guy with a 110 OPS+ last year who will be only 25 in the spring.

How is Alex Gordon a bust when he hit .261 16 homers 59 rbi's and a .351 obp and missed around 30 games...If he would have played all 162 he would have been at .260 20 homers 80 rbi's and .350 obp.

Gordon will be a great player before its all said and done

We'll see. I hope so. I thought he was going to be great.

Bravenewworld... jesus.. im outta here. you braves fans are so dumb.. thats the worse deal ever

I think Francoer will be a good player but you put Gordon in atlanta against nl pitching and a hitters ballpark like that and his numbers would be off the charts. The thing about Gordon he's still improving at the major league level if he was regressing I would be worried

Personally I think Francouer a change of scenary would do him good. Just like Mark Teahen

Yes Grover, that is the best trade scenario possible. Let's get that deal done!!

(puke)

The Braves and Rangers are going to be the strongest suitors for Greinke and have the players to get it done. If Francoeur is one of the players received in return Guillen would almost certainly be involved (which is a bonus for KC and the Braves' advantage over Texas packed system if their competing for Greinke). The amount of contract eaten by KC would determine the rest of the return. IT's been rumored that KC wants 3 major league ready players and two prospects for Grienke and Guillen gives additional value.
In that scenario I think Braves would have to part with Heyward or Hanson as the top prospect in the trade and then Teheran/Rohrbough or Hernandez/Schafer depending on the top two.

Greinke
Guillen

for

Escobar
Francoeur
Morton/Soriano
Heyward/Hanson
Schafer/Hernandez or Teheran/Rohrbough

End it with an excerpt from a Bill James interview by Fire Brand on MVN the link is at the bottom.
"You've said that Bret Saberhagen is the closest you've come to seeing a pitcher achieve perfection. Which active pitcher would you say comes the closest?

Another Royal. . .Zack Greinke. At the end of the season he had that same look that Saberhagen did in the 1980s and Catfish Hunter did in the 1970s--that he was doing effortlessly the things that everybody else struggles to do."

http://firebrandal.com/2008/12/08/fire-brand-interviews-bill-james.html

With the Bravos either posturing or being truthful that they're not gonna move Escobar, I actually think Kelly Johnson would be a better fit with KC. Aviles' much-maligned defense proved to be a falsehood (he was actually the #4 SS in MLB last year defensively - thanks, Bill James), so maybe with Hanson, a CF prospect and Francouer...

BraveNewWorld, you are unrealistic, if you value your prospects so much quit wasting your time on this website and email your GM to call them up this season. Greinke is a stud and has proven it at the MLB level. The other guys, not so much. Unless DM is overwhelmed, don't trade Greinke.

Oh yeah, don't forget to clean up that puke before you leave.

This trade would be the stupidest stupid thing in the history of stupidest stupid things.

I think this trade will remind Mets fans of the Kazmir-Wilson steal a few years back. Francoeur does not have what it takes to match Grienke in terms of tradability. If Dayton Moore makes this trade straight up, well, I feel sorry for Royals fans to have someone with that kind of imcompetance in the front office.

cx, sjdurfey, kazmir went for victor zambrano.

"daslied -- Francoeur was a league average player that year. 103 OPS+."

Right - so league average at 23 is certainly not a bust, which is what some people are calling him.

DM is not going to trade Greinke to his old team unless he comes away looking like he stole the deal. It isn't going to happen. Braves fans ought to just shell out the dough for Burnett and wait for Hanson to make it up. Hopefully the Royals can get Greinke signed to an extension. If he can't get Greinke signed to an extension by the trade deadline this year, maybe he will move him, and he'll still get a pretty nice return. With all the questins in the Royals rotation, Greinke isn't going anywhere. These rumors must be to serve another purpose.

Woah Surprise Surprise everybody knew this except for dumb braves fans

People still judge pitchers on W-L records? Do you also believe in the Easter Bunny?

Uh oh. Steve Phillips says there's no chance????

So you're saying there's a chance?

Actually I think Steve Phillips does a great job. Underrated on a team of underqualified Baseball Tonighters

"Woah Surprise Surprise everybody knew this except for dumb braves fans"

I said from the beginning that this was a stupid rumor and had no validity. So not all Braves fans are "dumb".

And Royal fans are just as dumb for thinking that the Braves would have any intentions of trading Jason Heyward or Tommy Hanson....for anyone...even Jake Peavy...much less Greinke.

Royals fans are dumb for valuing a #1 or 2 starter?

Right, unproven prospects definitely hold more value. Our bad.

For those of you trying to say that Greinke isn't all that good, go to a game when he pitches, and sit right behind home plate. Your minds will be changed.

"And Royal fans are just as dumb for thinking that the Braves would have any intentions of trading Jason Heyward or Tommy Hanson....for anyone...even Jake Peavy...much less Greinke."

I wasnt one of those dumb royals fans

all i said was, as highly as dayton moore and the royals think of greinke they would never do that trade unless one of the guys were including in it

If the Braves could ever land this rotation... we're talking a new age trip down memory lane with the team of the 90s:

Burnett, Greinke, Jurrjens, Vazquez, Smoltz/Campillo/Morton

It's a beautiful thought.