Twins Still Exploring Shortstop Options

I just don't see any quality options out there at shortstop on a short deal that are decently young.

Two teams I could definitely see Minnesota talking to are the LA teams. They both have multiple young shortstops that are near MLB-ready, and most teams aren't in that position.

Considering that the Dodgers just signed Furcal for three seasons, possibly four, it seems likely that they could deal Chin Lung Hu or Ivan DeJesus Jr. in order to add some pitching.

As for the Angels, you could say the same thing, with Erick Aybar and Sean Rodriguez.

I'm sure the Twins could land one of those guys for a reasonable price, and any of them are potential long term solutions at short with solid potential in the bat and a good glove.

Would something like Mulvey for Hu work? Maybe a different pitcher like Swarzak or Robertson instead? Maybe with the Twins throwing in an additional low level prospect?

""What if a situation arose where the Braves could acquire Lirano in a Escobar deal..."

Wouldn't happen in a billion years. Maybe a trillion."

I have to agree with you. It would take more than Liriano to get Wren to bite.

So does this mean that the front office is looking past the buddy-buddy relationship of Punto and Gardenhire?

The Punto contract was bad enough, but it looks even worse if he gets that much to come off the bench...

Now that Furcal and Lillibridge are gone there is absolutely no way Escobar is going to be traded to anyone. If we trade him we have absolutely noone to play short. We have logjams at 2B and OF but not short.

"How about Ronny Cedeno and Felix Pie from the Cubs for Denard Span? Pie and Span are close in age. Both do the left handed thing. Both highly touted, but Span has a year of success in the MLB so the addition of Cedeno for SS would probably make this an even deal."

I don't think the Twins would even consider this deal, and I'm a Cubs fan.

Pie's value lies primarily in his defense and speed. But the Twins already have arguably the best defensive CF in baseball in Carlos Gomez, who may be the fastest player in baseball as well. Pie is basically Gomez with slightly more polish and less tools. I doubt they'd be interested.

Span would look freaking awesome in right field in Wrigley next season though, especially with that OBP and lefthandedness.

"Span is a top of the order mainstay. Try DeRosa + ?"

I agree. Span is a good contact hitter with a little power, and plus speed and plate discipline. I'd love to have him be the guy that pushes Soriano down in the order.

And I'd definitely be willing to deal DeRosa for him. Go ahead. We'll offer them like DeRosa, Hart and maybe Cedeno for Span.

Put Fontenot at second and Span in right and the top of the order. Use the extra cash to add someone at second base to face lefties, maybe like Ray Durham or David Eckstein.

My reasoning was that the Twins were looking for a Shortstop. I do believe that Cedeno could start for a lot of teams. Defensively he is very good, not bad on offense, sometimes boneheaded on the bases. I threw in Pie to try to even out the scenario for Span. Just spitting into the wind here. Obviously the Twins and Cubs could care less what I think.

Jim Crane-

I just think you're overvaluing Cedeno. The guy is going to be 26 next season, and while his defense is solid, he's shown little reason to think he can be an everyday shortstop with the bat. He hit pretty well in the minors, but in 2006-2007 he was just awful for the Cubs, and in 2008 he only improved to the point of a .328 OBP and a 75 OPS+. His plate discipline isn't great, he doesn't have much power, and he doesn't make enough hard contact to make up for that.

He's a fine stopgap for a non-contending team, but for a contender like Minnesota, I don't think Cedeno can quite make it.

Hey Bill Smith - Zoilo Versalles has been dead since '95. Thought I'd save you a phone call.

I agree that Liriano is good, but I wouldn't trade Escobar straight up for Liriano. He only made 14 appearances last season with a 3.91 ERA. He averaged 1 run every two innings, which is about 3 to 5 runs a game. I doubt that makes hm worth more than Escobar. He had a .254 OBA, a .327 OOBP, and a .392 OSLG%. He averaged more than two walks a game. He has a 1.10 RF, which is probably one of the worst on the Twinkies of pitchers. I totally disagree that he is worth Escobar, let alone Robrbough.

If you want to see what Lirisno's capable of, just look at his rookie numbers.

As said above, Liriano wasn't totally healthy for his first like 4-5 starts, then came back up and pitched great.

I'm sorry but a LH power ace is more valuable than a top defensive shortstop that can get on base a whole lot

This Liriano talk has to stop. He is not even arbitration eligible yet and still has 4 years before Free Agency.

If the Twins wanted to trade Liriano for a SS they could probably swap him for Hanley Ramirez given Ramirez is going to cost the Marlins too much shortly.

Still, if the Twins even considered trading Liriano there might be riots on the street.

This is just absurd to talk about trading a cost controlled power arm like this kid for an average SS and some prospects. Ridiculous.

What isn't so ridiculous is the Twins trading Michael Cuddyer for Julio Lugo.

Cuddyer has $15 Million remaining on his contract for 2 more years. Lugo has $18 million for 2 more years. Cuddyer also has a club option in 2011 with a $1million buyout.

Assuming the buyout would happen. Cuddyer is owed $16 million over the next 2 years as compared to Lugo's $18.

If the Red Sox picked up $1 million per year this deal is a good wash for both clubs.

The Twins get a potential SS while the Sox get a potential 4th OF that is Right Handed.

Both teams fill needs without spending any more money then they were already going to and both teams clear space for their younger guys to move into.

"This is just absurd to talk about trading a cost controlled power arm like this kid for an average SS and some prospects. Ridiculous."

Average SS? Ha. Escobar can own probably any SS that BoSox can offer anyone. I assume you are a BoSox fan. Esocbar most likely can out perform any SS in the AL, including the "defensively sucky" Jeter. Looking through a list of SS's in the AL, I agree with my statement. If Rohrbough would go to the Twinkies, he would easily be the top pitcher in their farm system.

"I know this is a stupid question, but would the Twins take on a reclamation project like Julio Lugo? And what would they give in return?"

That artificial turn at the Metrodome would eat Lugo alive, but I do like the idea of unloading him to the Twins for any kind of fair (at best) reclamation project OF like Cuddyer with a likewise bad contract, only Lugo would probably have an even worse defensive year for the twins next season having to play 1/2 his games + on artificial turf, just remember all those boots he made in Toronto (to cost the Sox games, like 3 in 1 alone) and 1 he cost them in Minnesota as well.

If it did happen, would have to be a REAL "no deposit, no return" stamped on his forehead.

KangarooBoxer,

I never wrote that Escobar was Hanley, I know Hanley is better than Escobar. Escobar is would be thee best, not one of the best, THEE BEST. The only person that comes even close to Escobar in the AL is Michael Young, I still wouldn't put Young in the same category as Escobar.

There is no proof that Liriano can have a good year. But, I will make you a promise, if Liriano has a sub 3.50 ERA, more than 200 Ks, and more than 200 innings. I will come on here, and admit I was wrong, until than, I stick by my word that Escobar IS BETTER THAN Liriano.

How is having a 3.91 ERA in 14 starts an ace? He had an 11.32 ERA in April, 1.23 ERA in August, and a 4.66 ERA in September. Show me where that says anything about an "ACE?"

WHo are these people who think Liriano is not better than an average SS? My GOD if Escobar is that good I would hate to say Babe Ruth was the best baseball player ever around him, because I'm sure Escobar's name would be brought up!

BravesRed how about his 06 season before he was injured he was 12-2 with a 1.95 ERA. Or in 14 Starts he was 11-1 had an era of 1.65 his two losses whas when he gave up more than 2 runs.

Call me crazy but that sounds like an ace to me! Also he had tommy john and was rushed back, he was on fire before being called up from AAA, he had some sick numbers in his last 10 AAA starts (was 5-0 with a 0.26 ERA in 5 Starts in that span) and then had a Ace like August. You think a 4.66 ERA at the end of the year in your first year back from Tommy John is bad?

N. Punto 08
.284 avg, 2 HR, 28 RBI, 43 R, 15 SB in 99 G 338 AB's

Y. Escobar 07
.326 avg, 5 HR, 28 RBI, 54 R, 5 SB in 94 G 316 AB's

Maybe the Twins should get Lincecum for Punto strait up since Escobar can get Liriano plus some.

LMFAO

"I agree that Liriano is good, but I wouldn't trade Escobar straight up for Liriano. He only made 14 appearances last season with a 3.91 ERA. He averaged 1 run every two innings, which is about 3 to 5 runs a game. I doubt that makes hm worth more than Escobar. He had a .254 OBA, a .327 OOBP, and a .392 OSLG%. He averaged more than two walks a game. He has a 1.10 RF, which is probably one of the worst on the Twinkies of pitchers. I totally disagree that he is worth Escobar, let alone Robrbough."

Posted by: BravesRed | December 18, 2008 at 01:56 PM

That don't prove I wrote that Escobar is better than Liriano.

The reason I wouldn't trade Escobar straight up is because Braves don't have another SS that is wihin 3 years of the majors. Orlando Hudson isn't worth half of the money he wants.

Glad to see there is some sanity around here. Thanks Twins fans for bringing some clarity to the situation.

Scribble....the words "if they wanted to" does not imply a trade suggestion it implies in a hypothetical world that "if they wanted to" this is where they would start.

As for this comment: "The Marlins would never ever trade Hanley"..., check back in 2 years when he is coming up on Free Agency.

As for Liriano, if the only thing that is leading to your opinion is the stat sheet then I suggest you look up the stat sheets on some pretty good pitchers from early in their careers.

Tom Glavine 4.57 ERA 2nd season

Greg Maddux 5.62 2nd season

The list goes on. Imagine if their teams bailed on them because when they were extremely young they concerned themselves more with stats then with the talent their scouts saw in them.

"As for this comment: "The Marlins would never ever trade Hanley"..., check back in 2 years when he is coming up on Free Agency."

Ahh, but that's what I was getting at: The Marlins have Ramirez locked up already, through 2014. That deal takes Ramirez through the first two seasons of his free agency, at a total price of $31.5M. I doubt that the Marlins even begin to consider dealing him until 2012 or 2013.

In terms of the next couple years though, Ramirez simply isn't in consideration to be dealt, unless the other team offers something ludicrous.

FireGMBillSmith-

That's a poor use of statistics, the playing field on your comparisons is extremely uneven.

And, Escobar was not the worst shortstop in his division. He was fourth. Guzman can't touch him with the glove, and Esco still gets on at a far higher rate.

Escobar is one of the best defensive shortstop in baseball, and you can't use fielding percentage to prove anything, it's not a good statistic.

Aviles can't touch Escobar with the glove, and Escobar is probably going to the better hitter going forward as well, he's shown better plate discipline. As for Guzman, Cabrera and Renteria, none of those guys were better than Escobar last season, and won't be next year either. They're all worst, both offensively and defensively.

If Escobar moved to the American League, he could very well be the best player at his position. Who's better than Escobar? Peralta is a better hitter, but he's not even close to Escobar in the field. Aviles isn't proven enough and isn't close in the field either. Alexei needs to show he can take a walk, and same with Betancourt. Michael Young is poor at SS as well, and similar to Esco at the plate. Jeter is a similar case to Young, but Jeter has speed. Izturis sucks at hitting. Lowrie is unproven.

I'll flat out say it:

Yunel Escobar would be the best shortstop in the AL in 2009, barring a great year from Jeter, Young, Peralta or Alexei.

Why aren't the twins looking at Crede for 3b? Yes, he had injurie problems last year, but not much difference with the lamb and batista that couldnt play up to ball and had to resort to the bench.

PuntoBlows:

Crede can't even stay healthy for a 3-game series on turf. How would he play 81 games there?