Red Sox Still Eyeing Miguel Montero

I think that a trade will go through and i hope it does. After watching videos of this guy, he seems to have some real natural power with a little bit of speed for his size. I say make a deal for him and let him start. Sign Tek for 1 year and put him in once a week to give montero a break. that or just keep bard and do a Montero/Bard plattoon til 2010 then sign Mauer and keep Montero for a Mauer/Montero Platoon :)

Montero is garbage? .765 OPS in limited playing time with potential to improve as a catcher? Cant please everyone.

Theo Epstein-

As much of a brilliant man the real Theo is, your about 10 times that with stupidity. Every post i have read of yours is completely stupid. For One.) why worry about the short stop postion. we have Lowrie and your anology was completely useless. We dont need a SS. The reason why they are thinking about trading a pitcher for Montero is simply for the fact that the red sox need a catcher. If they had someone like mauer at catcher then there would be no question that they wouldnt make this trade. However they need a catcher and its going to take a pitcher regardless of weather or not they trade with Texas or with Arizona.

Comparing the SS position to the C position (a position extremely needed by the red sox) is completely stupid. Plain and simple, if the nessisity for a catcher was not there, the red sox would not be talking to the dimondbacks. However since they do need a catcher, a pitcher will have to be part of the deal.

My guess: Bard

Im not sold on Montero at all. Id rather give up a couple decent minor leaguers for salty who i think is going to have a breakout year. I wouldnt give up bucholtz or bowden but i would give them 2-3 lesser prospects

.

Dirty Water and Kulaid,

I WANT MONTERO BONE HEADS!

Let me analyze what you said because you obviously don't get what I was saying AT ALL...

"Montero had a better OPS than Young last year."

Montero had a BETTER OPS! Therefore I would prefer him over Young.

"Everyone is sweating over Young and his 80 million he is owed but Montero is garbage."

Everyone is sweating over Young, meaning everyone is drooling over him and in love with him even though he is overpaid. This is obvious sarcasm.

I was referring to Montero as garbage to be the opposite of Young (sarcasm).

"Both of them are around the same OPS as Lowrie. If we just had Lugo would you trade Buchholz, Masterson, Bowden or Bard to bring in Lowrie??"

I am all set with Lowrie, he is a good player. If you read the other posts you will see I have said many times I wouldn't trade Lowrie for Young straight up because they had identical OPS' last year.

...and the final point of this post was to say Lowrie, Young, and Montero all have the same value to me. I don't think any of us would give up the prospects I mentioned for him, so why would we give them up for Montero or Young.

Every post you have read of mine must be the one that you didn't comprehend.

Agree Theo,
No need to get crazy at catcher position right at this moment, Sox will do alright. Paplebon throws hard but he has control, Bard throws harder and cannot control it as much. Still young. Koufax one year pitched 158 innings but walked 105 batters, live arms usually take time to get it under control.

I dont believe this rumor Sox have the prospects to get this done immediately. If not to their satifaction I doubt , it will get done.

You go Theo dont get rid of those young arms!!!

Montero's stock is down after putting up decent mlb numbers as a 24 year old. That seems strange.

Montero should be worth at least Bowden and the DBacks shouldn't cave in. Bard/Ramirez/Delcarmen won't get it done. Judge other teams prospects with the same barometer as your own and you should be okay.

As for the 2-3 lesser prospects for Salty/Teagarden/Montero? Wow. A young, cost controlled catcher that has a decent bat will not be going to the Redsox without giving up something. Bard won't even get it done, relief prospects grow on trees.

Theo your right i shouldnt have called you stupid. however it frusterated me that you put a shortstop at the same par of nessitity for the red sox when you havent even given lowrie a chance. the point im trying to make is that Josh Bard will not do it behind the plate. He has already shown that he cracks under the pressure of Boston andcant catch wake which is what he was brought there to do. I feel as tho dealing for montero would be better then having Tek for 2 years. Ill have you know that i am a catcher myself and for years jason varitek has been my favorite player on the red sox..i idolize him in everything i do. i have the same catching equiptment as him...have 20 jason varitek cards including a mint condition rookie card and 4 jeresys...but i think its time for him to go. He had a terrible offensive season last year and even though he adds a lot to the team and is the captain i dont think he can produce the way he used to. Montero has had limited playing time and the time he has had looks actually pretty decent. I was watching some videos of him on mlb.com and it shows some of his homeruns and key at bats for the dimondbacks. From the very little that i saw i felt as though he had great natural power. when he swung, it looked as though he wasnt even trying and he hit it out of the park. Who knows how much this kid could produce if given the chance to really show what he is made of.

Once again i am sorry for saying that you were stupid. it just got me steamed when i saw your trade proposals in another thread as well as the comment about lowrie and other prospects. as much as it might have been sarcasism it certainly sounded like you were serious to me.

AZ might be "looking for relief" pitchers, but that doesnt mean they are going to trade Montero for relief. Incredible. AZ really has no reason to trade him other than he is a luxury as a backup.

LOL - I meant to say above:

(At least not in my opinion - which doesnt mean much).

lol

Theo,

Look, I agree with the majority of your points. I don't want to see the Sox part with any of their young pitchers either, especially since there are so many question marks with the rotation after this season. I don't want Young either, but to say he is the same offensive player as Lowrie strictly due to their OPS isn't accurate. Would you also say with the players position aside, that Giambi .876 OPS is the same offensive player as Pedroia .869? There are a lot of other categories to take into consideration. And 200 hits is a big stat, especially when 3-5 MLB players accomplish it a season.

for those of you that dont know a lot about red sox prospects but would like to learn some stuff i would like to point out a reallllly good site that breaks the players down.

www.soxprospects.com

Kulaid,

Why don't you go read the first Michael Young thread of the day? I was saying I WOULD NOT trade Lowrie for Young straight up. I have no idea why you keep saying I don't want to give him a chance.

I want the Red Sox to trade for Montero BUT I rather have Varitek and Bard/Bowden than JUST Montero.

...and I have never seen you post anywhere on here so I think you are making up the reasoning for why think I'm stupid. You just don't know how to read the entire context of a longer posting.

You two should meet in the Dunkin Dugout and give each other a hug :)

HERE IS YOUR COMPLETE STUPIDITY:

"LA Angels get:
David Ortiz (Bos)
Jarrod Saltalamacchia (Tex)

Red Sox get:
Michael Young (Tex)
Josh Hamilton (Tex)
Mike Napoli (LAA)

Texas Rangers get:
Clay Buchholz (Bos)
Argeniz Diaz (Bos)
Trevor Reckling (LAA)
Peter Borjous (LAA)
Maicer Izturis (LAA)"

I was just comparing the Red Sox and Rangers players.

Posted by: Theo Epstein | January 12, 2009 at 09:32 AM

__________________________

If you think that Declining David Ortiz, Diaz, and Buchholtz...is going to get you Hamilton,Young and Napoli.... You are seriously on crack and should go get checked out. Posts like that make me think you have no knowledge of the game. Throwing in $50 million bucks from the red sox STILL wouldnt get that deal done.

...

Pimento, Pimental, its all the same. Your trying to peddle an 18 year old as someone i care about.

Best of luck in your search.

Theo,

I already said I agree with you on the fact that Young is overpaid and on the decline. Lets just admit we both agree we don't want him and forget about it. I think we both misunderstood each others arguments.

Yeah the guy would just be a log jam of salary, unless we dumped Lugo and picked up Saltalamacchia in return. i will stick with Jed.

So now that we have that straight please explain why I am a "r-tard"? Just look at the numbers ($ and stats) and tell me why that trade wouldn't make sense if the Rangers were looking to rebuild and cut salary (Young).

Huh? Who said he wouldnt or couldnt be a full time catcher?

He wouldnt be one with AZ, but that doesnt mean he couldnt somewhere else.

Im not sure what to expect, but i know what a good hitting catcher means to a team, and i woulndnt give him up for a high risk high reward AA reliever and a prospect that is like 5 years away.

BraunHolio: "relief prospects grow on trees"

That's why there's such a glut of great relievers in baseball these days.

There are lost of relief prospects out there - guys who throw hard, and yet like you say, there arent that many dominant relievers.

Relief prospects are a crap-shoot. Another reason not to trade a catcher for one.

"""So why is Bard a crap shoot and not Montero. He hasn't proven amything yet either. I realize you are a Dbacks fan, but Montero isn't the golden ticket either."""

Montero had a pretty nice offensive year last year in limited playing time. While not a sure thing (who is, really?), he's is 1000x more of a sure thing than a AA reliever.

How hard is that to see - that a guy who has had some success at the major league level isnt as much of a risk as a guy in AA.

Theo Epstein-

You keep harping on and on about how the Sox could get Hamilton for Ortiz and some, but that is among the most illogical ideas I've ever heard.

Hamilton is under control for longer, is cheaper, plays center and is younger. The Rangers already have a glut of 1B/DH types in Davis, Ramirez, Blalock, Salty and Smoak.

Ortiz has no value to Texas, and they would have no interest in him.

Texas won't deal Hamilton, and if they do it'll be for a Teixeira-like haul of prospects.

You yourself even said the deal would never happen, and yet you continue to delve into it and discuss it.

So why even type it up in the first place?

And by the way, you're making Theo Epstein look bad..

Are they looking for someone that is majors ready, or someone that is a few years out. IMO all prospects and even most new ml players are crapshoots (a good rookie or sophomore year does not equeal a great career)but if they are looking for a guy thta is maybe one or two years away from the bigs then Bards potential is probably worth Montero's current value, but no one knows for sure how he will pan out in a few years.

I think AZ wont want to make thier major league team weaker with such a trade. They have no reason to trade a guy on their big squad who is still cheap for a guy who is years away - and could be a total bust.

It just doesnt make alot of sense for AZ at all.

Looks like Alex Speier got it right with this last update. Bard will not be enough.

I agree that the Red Sox will likely go crazy in the 2010 offseason trying to sign Joe Mauer.

The guy is the ideal catcher, plays great defense, is athletic, he's a great hitter with great plate discipline, and he's a good leader.

The Sox will likely offer Mauer the largest contract ever given to a catcher (5/90? 6/100?) if they ever got the opportunity.

If not traded wont bother me, I said before saw him last year, but beside his good hard fatsball, they got him working on a good slider, and cut fastball. Real nice motion very smooth.When I saw him Wagner was catching, and I like him too. Wonder why Theo is intense on going elsewhere to other clubs on catchers? Anybody?

I think the sox are ok at catcher..They have some good prospects in the minors with Louis exposito and Tim Federowicz doing very good and about 2-3 years out...montero is good and potentially great but dont think hes worth a ton right now..Sox hold out til trade deadline,let the AAA guys platoon with Bard and make a decision then..

qudjy1, overlooking two important points. First is that monteros value may never be higher. It seems like the Dbacks are more committed to developing snyder. If he comes out next season and puts up a .740 ops over 60 games the suitors might not be there anymore. Second is that while bard is probably not the right deal by itself there is a big jump up to the sox main pitching prospects. They are all pretty clearly worth more than just montero at this point. Just because the red sox could arguably afford to trade one away does not mean that they should at a lower value.

.247 .307 .556 .863

Montero's 2nd half in 80 ABs.

Yeah - small sample size, i know...

Scribbletone,

I am not harping on going after Hamilton. You choose not to read all posts.

You say Hamilton is cheap, under team control and the rangers won't part with him unless it's a great package in return.

Buchholz, is young, cheap and projects as a front of the rotation starter.

My entire point is why would I give away a potential ace for a catcher that may end up at first base or in the outfield (saltalamacchia). If the rangers really wanted buchholz then young or salty wouldn't cut it.

Oh yah, I didn't even bring back up that trade, someoe else did and I have never mentioned David ortiz on the rangers.

Read the whole convo before you run your mouth.

You mentioned him going to Texas, and then I think to LA in a three way deal.

And Buchholz stock has fallen some, he's no longer the big time sure thing ace prospect he once was, he's now just a very good prospect with ace upside.

Ortiz/Buchholz for Hamilton still doesn't make much sense. Ortiz is overpaid, and all of his value lies in his bat, which showed signs of decline.

And at no point did I mention moving Buchholz. He shouldnt go anywhere unless it's for an established star.

"I would argue his value might be at a low."

That runs contradictory to your endless peddling of his ops last year. I also said might. It seems to me it is pretty hard for a young catcher to develop playing so few games a season. Especially if you really think he has full-time potential. Just like you do not want bard plus a throw in obviously sox do not want to give up something good simply because of a throw in. My main point is that if you are not going to play him you could very well be better off trading him now.

"""That runs contradictory to your endless peddling of his ops last year."""

huh? Not at all. I think last year represents the low end of what he can do - being hurt for part of it hampered his year end #s.

"""so few games"""

I think he will get plenty of ABs splitting time with Snyder. How many catchers are really full time anyway.

"""throw in"""

Yeah, i agree - i was kidding about that.. thus the ;) at the end.

"""My main point is that if you are not going to play him you could very well be better off trading him now.""

first - who said he wouldnt play? Second - thats a dumb reason to trade someone unless you are making your team better - and for AZ, that means getting starting pitching.

Let me rephrase that. AZ SHOULD HAVE no interest in Bard. I have no idea why they would.

Scribbletone,

Never mentioned him going to Texas. Texas was part of a 3 team deal. Never said it was realistic. Once again all I was saying is if buchholz is moved it would have to be a top player and need in return.

If buchholz stock is low it is another reason not to trade him right now.

Never said to trade ortiz and buchholz directly for Hamilton. I was saying if you add ortiz' value to the angels and buchholz's value to Texas, you get Hamilton's value to the sox.

Never said you wanted to move buchholz. Some people are saying to move him for salty. This would be a terrible idea.

Please read the whole convo before you make nasty comments about me.

Thanks.

Okay fine.

You just don't have a good idea of how to reflect your ideas in a logical and cohesive manner.

Because I agree with nearly everything you said, I just think you presented it in a very odd way.

"""Then there is the always present will send you Julio Lugo. Nah I think D'Backs are fine young team, cant hold up their progress."""

Am i the only one who has NO idea what that means?

Scribbletone, You hit it right on the head with your assessment of why a deal with Arizona cannot happen if they are wanting a starting pitcher. Boston is not going to give up Buch or Bowden when they can get a much better Salty or Teagarden for them and the upside for Hagedone, whom is expected to be 100% health by the begining of May is moreso than that of Bowden, so they are probably not going to swap him either and the rest of the top starters at higher levels that they have, namely Kris Johnson and Dustin Richardsen, regressed this past season and will have to reassert themselves before being desirable again.

The Sox still have other top starters, but they are all either 2008 picks, or at low A ball.