Evaluating Michael Young Suitors

good post apb...im getting a little annoyed myself hahaha

Ha! Jim Hendry would be run out of town if he made that trade. trust me on this one, I've watched nearly evry mariners game for the past 8 years and have seen a lot of Michael Young, he's a tough out, don't get me wrong. (The guy can foul off perfect pitches on the black better than anyone) But he's not worth what he's gettin paid, period. And definitely not worth trading a prospect the Caliber of Josh Vitters. Young is a singles hitter with a below average glove, trust me. Once he's out of Arlington he's gonna look even worse. Stay away.

Posted by: Gord | January 12, 2009 at 11:15 AM

This makes no sense b/c the Cubs are becoming the Yankees of the NL. The Cubs have proven that they don't care about how much money they spend. If the trade itself makes sense, they would do it Im sure of it.

I would love to have Michael Young in my team, the Braves. But what would the Rangers ask in return? Martin Prado, Charlie Morton, Blaine Boyer, and Jeff Locke for Michael Young and cash(around 10 million to pay for that huge contract). If they really were serious about having 45-48 million this offseason. He would play 2B, and be a great dp combo with Yunel, and they could move Kelly to left field. But first thing is they need to sign Derek Lowe, then they could go after Young, Hudson, Abreu, or Dunn, depending on their amount of money left.

"This makes no sense b/c the Cubs are becoming the Yankees of the NL. The Cubs have proven that they don't care about how much money they spend. If the trade itself makes sense, they would do it Im sure of it."

That's why they landed Peavy, Furcal, Wood, and Bradley to stack their team this winter!

They traded TWO key contributors to save money (DeRosa and Marquis), let another one go in order to save money (Wood), and traded a key prospect to replace the guy they couldn't afford (Ceda for Gregg).

This team is clearly working on a payroll, and aren't spending wildly.

Way to have a basis for your argument.

i like what Dan said, I think the Cubs would be a great match, especially if they are able to keep Theriot, move him to second, has a little bit better range there, especially with D-Lee on that side of the field, Vitter unfortunately is kind of stuck with A-Ram at 3rd now. Maybe Vitters and Vizcaino for Young, the Rangers don't have much leaverage, but they do have a little, I think Young could hit very well in Wrigley and the Rangers could fill their need for a 3B with Vitters.

As a Twins fan, I'd like to see us add Young at 2B and move Casilla to short. Happy to give up Perkins, Brendan Harris (decent 3B option), and a solid prospect. However, we'd need Rangers to eat some of the salary- say the Twins pick up $40 million over the 5 years.

The cubs aren't giving up vitters to get michael young, I promise.

I think the White Sox are probably the best fit. They need a guy like Young for the top of their lineup, can give him a spot in the middle infield long term, and have the players to fix up a deal.

I could see something like Fields, Lillibridge and Shelby for Young.

They get a young 3B, a potential stopgap SS until Andrus is ready, and a decent OF prospect, while shedding all of Young's salary.

And I know the Cubs landed Bradley. They did it thanks to shedding the salary of DeRosa and Marquis. Point made.

"I would give Bartlett, Aybar and Niemann for Young if they ate A LOT of his salary.

I'm not so sure this makes the Rays a better team, even in 2009. Bartlett is a FAR better defensive player, and the upgrade offensively from Young to Bartlett may not be as much as the downgrade defensively.

And you'd be giving up a great guy to have on your bench in Aybar, as well as an interesting arm in Niemann.

The Rays are totally set with Navarro, Pena, Iwamura, Longoria, Bartlett, Crawford, Upton, Joyce and Burrell.

APB,

Woah buddy, calm down. You really pride your self on trying to be the "Cool Red Sox Fan".

I think that person was being sarcastic when they said Cain for Lugo because obviously that makes no sense at all.

What does make sense though is Young is in the same position as Lugo. Both are paid too much for their production.

Trading Lugo for Young is more than fair. This would be a salary dump for the Rangers, nothing more. Like I said before Young and Lowrie had the same OPS last year so there is really no incentive for the Sox to take him.

A lot of idiotic things are said here but I believe you are the one bringing up this Bowden and Buchholz for Pujols thing. Most still project Buchholz to be a front of the rotation pitcher. So yes, he is going to be highly regarded, it has nothing to do with being a homer.

The only real trade actually rumored was Salty for Buch, if you are implying this is where we should send him then you are also crazy my friend.

Scribbletone, the Cubs didn't get Peavy b/c the Pads decided that they didn't want the package being offered. The Cubs would have taken Peavy if they could have made the deal work and I doubt money would have stopped them.

And I know the Cubs landed Bradley. They did it thanks to shedding the salary of DeRosa and Marquis. Point made.

They may have shredded some salary, but still spend $30 million for a fourth OF type that is better as a DH? To me not wise at all.

This is just off the top of my head but would the Rangers be interested in Ankiel? He and Hamilton would be a nice power combo from the left side. Imagine Ricky's umbers in Arlington..

Something like a Ankiel/Wallace or Ankiel/Freese or Ankiel/Craig for Young and salary relief?

JP

When did you see anywhere posted that the Padres rejected the offer because of the deal on the table? Or that the Cubs would have taken that salary on with no issues? They still needed to get the new ownership approval, and everything i have read on various sites was that they had the principal players agreed on but Hendry had to clear more salary first.

Also in your post that we are set at OF, where do you see our 3rd OF at before Bradley was inked? I see Soriano in LF, Fuke/Johnson in CF and no one in RF.

Bradley's contract is structured so that he stays on the field and actually plays. If we get his prodcution for 130 games this season it is a good contract. if he can't stay healthy it is not that long of a deal.

Who would you have rather had in RF that is still on the open market? Abreu who wants 16+ for 3 years? Dunn would would be just another 200+ hitter in our lineup? They are not going to trade for an outfielder that is worth a darn.

Will people please stop throwing out the names of top prospects in potential Young trades.

Unless the Rangers are adding something else OF VALUE besides Young into the trade, they WILL NOT be receiving any top prospects.

And partial salary relief does not count. I mean prospects.

let us not forget the NTC...

Why on earth would the Rockies trade Atkins for Young. Atkins is monumentally cheaper and simply a better player. And they need him because Helton is a giant question mark right now.

Also, I bet Baker and Barmes are better 2nd basemen than Young is, an 1/16th of the salary.

Why even relate the Fukudome and Bradley signings?

Just because one was a bust, the other will be too?

Bradley was arguably the most productive hitter in the AL when healthy. He's also a plus defender with a good arm.

Where do people keep getting this info that he's a 4th OF type? When healthy, he's among the better outfielders in all of baseball.

They were set in the infield and at catcher, so outfield was the only place where we could address our need for a LH impact bat.

Scribbletone. I don't know if you've seen Bradley in the field at all in the past few years, but he's pretty awful out there. He's got a decent arm, but his knee injuries have left his range downright awful. He's a minus outfielder, trust me.

His bat will make up for it, but he's gonna be an adventure out in the field.

Reds could send EE and a mid-range starter prospect like Maloney or Thompson along with Alex Gonzalez (if healthy) to make up some of the cash.

EE isn't a 3B, but Young really isn't a SS either. EE has some offensive upside and I think he'd actually achieve it with a change of scenery. Gonzalez is probably done but I don't see the Reds taking on that kind of salary with him still on the payroll, and they have pitching depth so they can part with a arm like Thompson or Maloney fairly easily.

In the end it would be EE for Young with Thompson going just to get them to take Gonzalez.

I think Michael Young to the Reds makes GREAT sense. Here is why;

Contrary to what Jockitchy has said, I think the main reason Jerry Hairston Jr was signed was to play Short Stop this year. I think the Reds Front Office knows that A Gon is NOT going to be ready by Spring Training and, even if he is, they are not confident about what type of player he is going to be. I also think they (well, Toothpick Baker, at least) have no confidence in Keppinger and think JHJ will be a better option. THis, even though, he is injury prone and opnly played Short STop 40 Games in his !! YEAR CAREER!!!

Again, on a side note, how smart is THAT?? An injury prone guy who has mostly played the Outfield his whole career gets moved to SS, a position where guys are running at him full speed.

Anyway, MY IS a Short Stop and HAS played through injuries. He supposedly played the last two months of 2008 with two broken fingers. So, look at what he was hitting BEFORE thsoe last two months.

Also, he is a perfect number two hitter since he makes decent contact and takes pitches. This is IMPORTANT if the Reds ARE going to try and play "small ball" in 2009.

Finally, if he is willing to move to Second Base, then the Reds could play him there and move Phillips to Short Stop. Thus the Defense at SS would be improved while NOT having a drop off of Offense at Second Base.

For those bitching about MY not wanting to move to Third Base, he said it himself. He agreed to switch to Short Stop, for the betterment of the team, after A Rod was traded away and he worked hard to improve his Defense there. After agreeing to an extension, WHY should he now have to agree to move to ANOTHER position and learn to play it?

If the Rangers want a Third Baseman, why not just sign Joe Crede?

So, as a trade to the Reds, I propose Homer Bailey, JHJ and one of the young Short Stop prospects in the Minors. The Reds have messed Bailey up and Bailey doesn't really seem to want to be in the Reds organization anymore. So, trade him and let him go back to his home state and be the Rangers head case. They NEED pitching and have dealt with had cases before (Milton Bradley).

Hairston Jr could be used as a stop gap at SS or Third Base (plus by getting rid of him Toothpick Baker wont have one of his play things to use NO MATTER WHAT).

Finally, I have read that the guys the Reds have in the Minor Leagues now at Short Stop don't really project to be Short Stops once they get to the Majors. So, trading for Young and having him play SS or moving Phillips to SS gives the Reds a couple of more years to either sign or trade for a young Short Stop.

Gord-

I would trust you, but other sources disagree.

Metrics say he was a plus RF before 2008, when he hardly played the field. The reason he didn't was his lack of durability, not because he was poor in the field.

Keith Law described him as above-average defender that can play a plus right and an adequate center.

Indications are that Bradley was chosen over Abreu, Dunn, and Ibanez as their prime target because of defense.

I just believe you may be mistaken..

And as much as I'd want to trade Fukudome, I think were stuck with him..

Who says no to a Fukudome for Young swap?

There would have to be other pieces included on both sides, but it would give the Cubs a legit lead off man and allow Pie to get time in CF since he is out of options this year.

Posted by: laxtonto | January 12, 2009 at 12:11 PM

Are you out of your Damn mind? Pie has proven he can't hit at the next level yet. Keep him on the 40 man roster and play him in the minors and continue to build his skills. Fukudome is a professional and will make the transition to CF. If Bradley can stay healthy, and that is a big if, then this lineup will be very productive. No way you trade off Fukudome to get Young. It would be nice to have him but sending off Fukudome is not the way to go about it!

I like Young for The Reds. Hes a little pricey..but I think if the Reds want a good defensive, solid hitting shortstop.

Young might be expensive, but might be worth it

"Keep him on the 40 man roster and play him in the minors and continue to build his skills."

Pie is out of options...he isn't going to the minors.

PS Young hasn't had a positive UZR/150 since 2003.

"Bill Hall/or Ricky Weeks, i think a JJ Hardy Young middle infield would be great, and give the Crew a lead off hitting upgrade over Ricky."

Weeks is a good leadoff hitter. He posted OBP's of .363 and .374 before 2008, but he still posted a .370 OBP after the all star break.

He has good speed and is a solid baserunner.

If he can improve his defense and make more contact, he'll be a star.

I know it hasn't happened yet, but it's not worth giving up on when it's unclear that Young will be significantly better.

Stick with Rickie.

"I like Young for The Reds. Hes a little pricey..but I think if the Reds want a good defensive, solid hitting shortstop."

Once again, Michael Young is not a good defensive shortstop. He's a below-average defensive shortstop according to every metric I've seen.

He won that Gold Glove based off of reputation and the stupidity of voters, not because he's actually a good defensive player.

Scribble. While that may be Keith Law's opinion, I just remember watching Bradley play RF last year with Texas, and he misplayed a lot of balls for only playing 20 games there. I'm just sayin, from what I saw, he's not very good in the field anymore. He used to be quite good, I remember when he was with Oakland he was, but last year he didn't resemble that guy.
It might've been because he didn't get to play the field that often, and if he gets to play it everyday with Chicago he might be better, but I'm just givin some fair warning.

Gord-

He also had some issues with his knees last season, so I would expect that his range was affected by that as well.

If he's healthy, he should be a plus in the field.

No offense to you, but I have more faith in the evaluations of complex defensive metrics and educated scouts.

"Why are all of these Cubs fans saying that Vitters is blocked by A-Ram? Isn't Vitters still blocked by High A ball, AA, and AAA?"

Vitters isn't blocked by Ramirez, not even remotely.

Vitters likely won't be ready until after Ramirez's 5/75 contract runs out. Even if the Cubs want to resign him, Vitters' bat projects to be quite prolific, and would be able to easily play in left field, or even at first base.

It's not like Vitters is a great defensive third baseman, all of his value lies in his bat.

If A-Ram is still here when Vitters is knocking on the door, then Vitters will likely end up playing first, taking over for Derrek Lee.

scribble.

Young might be bad defensively at Short Stop BUT would you take Alex Gonzalez, who is coming off a severe leg injury and who hasn't played a Major League Game in 1 1/2 years over him?

Would you take Jerry Hairston Jr, who has ONLY played 40 Games at Short Stop during his whole 11 year career (32 of which came jsut last year) over Young?

Would you take Jeff Keppinger over Young?

Personally, out of the three current guys the Reds have to play SS, I would take Keppinger. He HAS played there more than JHJ and his injury was a freak one (broke his knee cap by hitting a ball off of it) so, compared to JHJ I do NOT think Keppinger is injury prone.

As far as A Gon goes, he was NOT all that special defensively in 2007 even when he WAS healthy. Then when you add his streaky, Strike Out prone, Home Run hitting wannabe tendencies, he and Keppinger were pretty close as far as a total ball player goes.

Now, add all of that together, along with the fact that Young has said he would be willing to move back to Second Base (which would allow Brandon Phillips to move to Short Stop) and he is a good fit for the Reds.

The REds dumped payroll when they got rid of the two loafing losers KGJ and Dunn and also received moeny in the Freel - Hernandez trades.

So, even after taking into account that Harang, Arroyo, Cordero and Phillips all receive raises this year, that the Reds have signed Taveras and JHJ and that Weathers and Edwin E will receive raises via Salary Arbitration, the Reds should still ahve the money available to pay Young.

This is especially true if grumpy Bob Ca$htellini lives up to his word that the Reds payroll in 2009 will be more than what it was in 2008 (which he has NOT done yet) and if JHJ is included in the deal.

I hate Lugo too but he is just our utility guy now.

Lowrie and Young both had hand injuries last year so they were both playing hurt.

They put up an almost identical OPS.

Lowrie was a rookie, I see him improving over the next 5 years.

Young is 32, has a decling OPS for the past 4 years, I don't see him turning it around.

Young will make about $75 million more than Lowrie over the next 5 years.

Posted by: Theo Epstein | January 12, 2009 at 10:30 AM

Theo, Theo, Theo-

I hate posts like this. Someone argued with me yester that Ben Sheets hasnt had a 200 IP season in "a whileeeee" when he pitched 198.3 innings LAST YEAR.

Michael Youngs OPS+ in the four years previous to last year.

2007- 108
2006- 109
2005- 131
2004- 109

Basically OPS+ wise, he just had one good year and one bad year and you should expect ~109 OPS+. Its that simply. He is a good hitting 2b, not so great for a SS. Thats it and thats all. I think he makes sense for the sox if they can rid themselves of Lugo.

Similarly I think it makes sense for the mets in a Castillo Murphy trade. only because your moving castillo's salary. Now that being said, I am not pushing for that to happen. I mean in 3 years we would be looking at possibly the same situation. I think is good for the short term however.

And to the poster that said "why trade castillo for a worse contract and similar production" you must have no clue how bad Castillo is. Young's OPS+ is above.
Castillo:

2008- 77
2007- 91
2006- 93

even last year Young's OPS+ was 96, or 19 points higher than Castillo!

ok first of all cards fans are idiots here, y would are u thinking post greene already, we don't even know what he can do, he's only one year removed from hitting .280-.290 27hr 97rbi,and we do have kozma and niko vasquez in the waiting, and y would anyone think of trading wallace when he has the potential to be a howard or fielder type hitter. the only deal for young that would make sense is brad thompson, freese, and kennedy for young and the cards getting a window to restructure that contract, and that means young taking a pay cut to be able to play for a different team that is able to win, and the guy who was going for a 7 for 1 trade ur an idiot

The Rangers would be stupid to take Kennedy and his 4 mill a year. He's at best a back up behind Kinsler.

Being that Young isn't so young, I think his best bet would be to move him to 2b for the Cardinals.

Ctown -

Your... Your kidding, right? Reds would trade for Michael Young and his 5 year 62 million dollar salary so that they could move Phillips to SS and Young to 2B? Why change to players' positions?

The reason Young said he'd move to second is probably because a team on his short-short list has an All-Star SS and has 2B open or is willing to move a 2B - HELLOOOO Yankees.

As for the Reds, why move Phillips for a hefty contract? Why not just sign Orlando Hudson for two years at a bargain? Hudson's win value according to fangraphs is 2.1. Michael Young was at 1.7. So you get the better value for less money without giving up prospects.

The biggest problem is that Young is 32 and signed for five more years. How productive is he going to be at 37 when the Reds are still eating contracts. What about the Reds' prospects like Valiaka or Frazier?

To the Red Sox? Sure, for Lugo and Hansack. Sox take on the bigger contract, Rangers take on the worse SS.

Davidmp,

Orlando Hudson's best year on Offense was two years ago and THAT wasn't as good as Young's "down" year of 2008.

Hudson is 31, which is only one year younger than Young. So, if you signed Hudson to a two year deal, then in two years, the Reds would AGAIN be looking for a player to fill his role.

As far as Frazier and Valaika, I read where some soouts say they are NOT going to be Short Stops at the Major League level but are going to have to be moved to different positions. So, counting on them might turn out to be a waste of time.

Therefor, if the Reds ARE going to be silly and try to be a "small ball" team with Toothpick Baker as their Manager then they are going to NEED GOOD hitters in the line up.

If MY can bat .284 with 180 Hits, 36 Doubles and do so while playing the last two months with broken fingers then I consider THAT being a GOOD hitter.

Honestly I believe theirs no way Mozeliak pulls the trigger on any deal involving taking on that much money.

But I think a deal that would be beneficial for both sides would be Young and cash for Freese Duncan and a low level pitching prospect.

That would give Texas a major league ready 3b, a DH in Duncan (bc the guy can hit but his defense....yea)
And St.Louis would get a solution to their 2b problem relieve some of the logjam in OF

wow.. a lot of odd discussions here. Let me just me put my 2 cents in here.

First MY contract is 5 years 16 per starting this year. He signed it after the 2006 season when he was awesome.

Padres need to shed payroll so that takes them out and Cubs dont need him. They have plenty currently at 2b and SS.

Rangers dont need outfielders. They have a log jam themselves so the ideas of a bunch of outfielders from the Cards doesn't make sense. (this goes for Fukudome too)

Now the Cards do make sense. He would be a great fit. Though as a Cubs fan in the Dallas area I would hate his bat in the lineup. But I don't see it happening.

My guess is that the Rangers make a big public apology and will work something out.

Also remember the Rangers do have Hank Blalock and its reported that he is again healthy. (they just picked up a 6 mil option for him)

Now the Rangers could have traded Blalock to the Twins for a pitcher which may have been the idea, but I think this is just blown up.

Alright. I keep on reading a lot of comments from people that don't get the chance to see MY play everyday. He's a special talent. He has great leadership and could not be a better member of this community. If he got a gold glove last year just because of his reputation then his reputation obviously must be pretty dang good. As for possible suitors. I honestly don't really see a match. If the Rangers wouldn't talk to the Red Sox about Satlamachia without them trading Bucholtz then I can't imagine them talking to anybody about their most prized possession without them getting a big name player or a big name prospect. Maybe the Brewers and the Rangers can work something out since Melvin used to be the gm here but if that happens then i'm sure the rangers would ask for a big name like Fielder or something and that wouldn't happen

How about a deal based around Starting Pitching and maybe a solid player with a little bit of a larger contract?

I would guess that the Rangers would probalby need to add a little bit to the deal, maybe add David Murphy.

I know the team was not listed, but what about the Giants? I think that earlier reports saying that the Rangers were looking at Jonathan Sanchez and Noah Lowry might make a match. I don't think that the Rangers would 100% need to get a 3Bman in return for Young. Why not just better their team overall and go with Davis at 3B and Blalock at 1B?

I propose an idea of a Giants/Rangers trade:

Jonathan Sanchez, Aaron Rowand and Eugenio Velez
for
Michael Young and David Murphy.

The Rangers get a little bit of salary relief, a much better defensive outfield and a young SP with incredible stuff in Jonathan Sanchez.

The Giants get a solid (younger) Veteran at 2B and a guy that can hit towards the top of the order. They also get a good, young 4th outfielder and they clear room for Nate Schierholtz to finally get a shot with the big club.

I think the key question is:
If Michael Young was a Free Agent (not type A) would anyone sign him for 5/65?

My answer here is a definitive No. Consider a better player at this point in their respective careers (Cabrera) is probably looking at a 1/6 type deal.

Ergo, If Texas do not pick up any of Young's contract it would seem unlikely that they get anyone in return. For example if they wanted Fields from the White Sox, they would either eat a good chunk of money or accept a bad contract in return.

The Cardinals also have Travis Hanson as a 3B and Brendan Ryan as a SS to and OF to Trade for SP.
To the Marlins maybe.

Since Michael Young has negative trade value because of his bloated contract:

Pierre and DeWitt

for

Young

DeWitt is an above average defender at 3B and would likely put .280 15-20 HRs in that ballpark

Pierre could play LF and either leadoff or bat last for the Rangers...