Jason Giambi Reaches Agreement With A's

If he goes back to the A's, will the fans cheer or keep up the boos?

No one can top the Rangers signing of Turnblow though.

no f'ing way! wow, talk about free agent constipation relief!

If Giambi goes for under $10M a year, A's should make a good run at Dunn to play 1B next year and LF after Holliday leaves.

Is Balco still a sponsor? Will Matt Holiday throw on a thong as a slump buster? Questions, questions, questions.

"Is Balco still a sponsor? Will Matt Holiday throw on a thong as a slump buster? Questions, questions, questions."

Just think about Holliday's kids!!!

Dunn @ 1B
Giambi @ DH
Cust in RF
Holliday in LF

Murderers row style.

No care ever about G-man's stigma, dude OPS's like Babe Ruth in Oakland. There's only a handful of players who can hit as well or better in that giant park and few are available (funnily Manny is one of them).

This is going to be a team that has a lot of guys that strikeout over 100 times in the season. Barton, Hannahan, Crosby, Cust, Holliday, and now Giambi. I don't consider this a good lineup.

"This is going to be a team that has a lot of guys that strikeout over 100 times in the season. Barton, Hannahan, Crosby, Cust, Holliday, and now Giambi. I don't consider this a good lineup."

If Giambi is in the lineup, Barton is not in the lineup. Giambi plays 1B, as does Barton.

Hannahan's a backup to Chavez. He probably won't get many starts this season, especially if the A's are planning to go for it. If the A's are contending midseason and Chavez gets hurt mid-season, you can anticipate a trade for a 3B at the deadline. The A's have the ammo.

And, you also have 3 very good mashers in Holliday, Cust, and Giambi.

Also, you're taking out Emil Brown and Carlos Gonzalez (who was weak with the bat last year), and inserting in Holliday and Buck (Cunningham starts in AAA as Buck insurance).

You also see plenty of room for improvement from Ellis (2008 was a down year for him), Suzuki, Sweeney, and Buck (all young hitters).

Yes, you are all welcome for all the free agents signing.

Gotta admit, I thought the Rays would sit back and wait for someone to fall to them but they actually started all the signings.

Leland11-

I think they come up in '09, but they won't be in the opening day rotation.

Cahill did not fully dominate AA (4.6 BB/9), and will probably start the season in AA, with a promotion to AAA early in the season.

Anderson will probably start in AAA, and is the most likely to see a mid-season callup.

Gio Gonzalez will probably start in AAA as well, and also is a candidate for midseason callup.

Mazarro was getting lit up in AAA last year, and will probably start in AAA.

Simmons probably starts in AAA.

Which is why signing an injury prone ace (read: Sheets) is a good idea for the A's. If someone in the rotation gets hurt, there's plenty of guys behind them to take the place. We'll definitely see some of these guys in '09, but the A's really shouldn't be relying on any of them opening day. Some of them might be up as relievers, ala David Price/Adam Wainwright.

I think 2 years gets Sheets.

When I meant long term deal, I meant 3+ years.

Will Cust hit 3rd or Giambi? I'd think Holliday being the Righty of the bunch gets sandwiched in the middle of Cust/Giambi.

The K's for Giambi/Cust are obvious but their HR/OBP abilities are enough to ruin a pitchers night in a hurry.

While its not an ideal way to look at things, Cust did walk 100+ times last year. Next year that will translate into 100+ times that Holliday comes to the plate with a man on base.

Sure Cust K's a lot, but to me that is acceptable for guys with poor speed because I'd rather see them K then ground into a double play because they couldn't run it out. Especially Cust/Giambi because the infield is usually shifted and odds are if they put it on the ground against the shift its going for 2 outs.

I expect Cahill to begin in AAA in 2009. While his walk rate was a little high in Midland he was pretty dominant in all other areas. The A's were impressed with the way he handled himself in China and I expect they will keep him and Anderson together. I also wouldn't be surprised to see Gio start 2009 in the Oakland rotation.

I think that you put Cust in front of Holliday. Cust will get better pitches to hit, because they won't want to go after Holliday.

Giambi is already a veteran and should be able to handle himself without the protection of someone like Holliday hitting behind him.

Cust should be a better hitter next year with some protection. He really didn't have that last year.

If the A's sign Sheets, I like their chances at winning the division. Without him, its a crap shoot.

The Angels lost K-Rod and Tex, while only adding Fuentes and re-signing Rivera. Edge to Angles pitching, with veteran presence, but I think the edge should go to the A's in offense if Giambi is signed.

PL, I know it's the standard stat geek line that strikeouts aren't worse than any other out, but is that really true? It seems to me that it really depends on the situation. First of all, a GIDP total of over 20 in a season is very high, so maybe that stat is a bit overrated, as damaging as GIDPs are when they happen.

A groundout with a runner on first moves the runner to second, which is just as valuable as a sacrifice bunt. A groundout with a runner on third scores a run, while a strikeout does nothing positive.

Saying that strikeouts aren't worse than any other out has just always seemed a bit too simplistic to me, as it really depends on the situation...

jay: I think 100-150 K's are acceptable if the hitter is trying to hit the ball over the fence, and does indeed do that more than 30 times a year.

also this new breed of apparently hateable (see: Mike SChmidt re: Burrell) "3 true outsomes" sluggers have to be treated as the full experience that they are: they are simply waiting around to hit a ball over the fence, which is the best thing a hitter can do. These hitters (Cust, Dunn etc) will wait around all day and challenge pitchers constantly, either leading to walks, K's or dingers. One extremely important thing they do is drive up pitch counts, and in this day and age where managers are being very strict with those, makes pitch watching a really undervalued talent. A .230 BA with 40 HR and a .400 OBP means the hitter is outstanding, and shouldnt be frowned upon as much as it is.

Im not saying they are in the league of Bonds, Pujols etc, but these kinds of hitters are absolutely amongst the top 2 tiers of hitters in the game.

"if theres one thing the a's dont need: its pitching. The offense was an insult to watch last year, its the main thing that needs fixing....which Holliday+G-Man will play a part in doing."

Yeah, but take into account the park the A's pitch in and the A's defense. Their pitchers may have appeared good, but they were mediocre in talent level.

With the way the A's current rotation is built, if Duke goes down, the entire rotation will be built on BOR types and prospects with no MLB experience. And, if Duke goes down, the A's don't have a frontline starter. Rotations of purely #4s and #5s (and high ceiling unprovens) will not get you into the playoffs.

Projected payroll is at 50-65MM. Current payroll is at 44MM. Looking at the high payroll figures from 2006-2007, I think the A's assume the higher end of that payroll curve.

Giambi won't get more than Burrell. If Giambi signs for 1/8 with an option, the A's have the cash to go after both Giambi and Sheets. Sheets' price is dropping by the minute.

Dana Eveland will surprise you this year. His ceiling is a little higher than what scouts originally thought. He was very good when he came back from the minors last year, whatever was holding him back got worked out down there.

I agree though about suring up the rotation, I feel Eveland+Gallagher are good for 30 starts, Duke is a wild card as is Braden, and I actually think Anderson might be here on opening day. While bringing in Sheets would certainly be nice, I think the A's have enough to cover their lack of experience.

Plus if you keep signing mashers and the offense is scoring 6 a game, then the pitchers can afford to have learning curves while still winning :)

PL, good points. Over the course of a season, the Ks can be worth it if they're accompanied by a high amount of BBs and HRs. As a Giants fan, I wanted to see Burrell signed (or Dunn, but I doubt he'd have any interest).

It just seems to me that sometimes people talk about Ks and GIDPs without thinking of the relative rate of each. The worst GIDP guys will only ground into double plays around once every 30 at-bats, while guys like Dunn will K once every four at-bats...

A .230 BA with 40 HR and a .400 OBP means the hitter is outstanding, and shouldnt be frowned upon as much as it is.

______________

Is this really where we've come to?

Are guys who whiff 190 times considered great hitters? I don't know....as a guy who watched Giambi for the last 7 years I'll take a guy w/ a bat avg, obp and contact over an "all or nothing" guy anyday. Just my opinion.

YanksFanSince78:

You'd rather have a 1B who gets on base but doesnt have power? Um, ok you can have Mark Grace and I'll take Mark McGwire lets see who creates more runs.

Home Runs are still the ultimate thing a hitter can do, and making an out is the worst thing they can do. 100 ground outs or 100 K's, its still an out.

I like bringing Giambi back to Oakland for a year or two. A's fans have to remember that he is A very slow starter and picks it up after may.
I believe they still need another hitter in the lineup.
I also think giving Sheets a two year deal would be perfect too, the A's need another veteren pitcher in the rotation to go with Duke.
Sheets does make me nervous with his history of injuries but he is awesome when he is healthy and Derek Lowe is going to cost too much.
I'm very excited to see which one of the young pitchers (Cahill,Anderson,Simmons,Mazzaro,Gallagher,Gonzalez)stand out this year.

Hey Melonis rex, if the A's can't sign Sheets what do you think of getting Smoltz on a 1 year deal?

PL: It's not an absolute rule, but I think a hitter who strikes out 190+ and fails to hit 50+ hrs is a horrible ballplayer. A good pitcher will breeze thru a strikeout heavy line-up.

I mean Gallagher was above league average for the first half of the year. Not the whole year.

melonis rex- Thanks for the info. But regarding the pitching, I don't know if I agree with you. Sheets seems more to me like the type of guy a win-now team would want, cause he'll give you great starts when he's healthy. But for a team that's kind of rebuilding/transitioning phase (no offense, but I think the A's have a better chance in 2010 than they do this year), I'd rather have a guy who will eat innings and give the prospects the time they need in the minors. No? But maybe we just disagree about where the A's stand for this year. I think everyone lost faith in the Angels with Teixeira and K-Rod leaving, but Fuentes will replace K-Rod pretty nicely and, frankly, the Angels were seemingly going to win the division without him anyway. Granted, the A's were right in it until they traded away their guys (which, in the long run, was obviously a good move), but still. I think the A's will come up just a bit short this year, even though I hope they don't.

YanksFanSince78- I have to disagree there. Just because a guy strikes out a lot doesn't mean he's an easy out, especially if it's a guy like Cust or Dunn with an OBP over .370. It just means a larger proportion of his outs are K's instead of grounders. Granted, K's are usually the least productive kind of out (after DPs and pop-ups), but it doesn't mean a pitcher will breeze through the lineup, especially since strikeouts tend to take a lot of pitches.

scatterbrian- I like the originality. I've thought about that too, although making the switch seems like it would only work in the AL. A lot of AL teams use that "double leadoff" strategy where they put a fast guy 9th, so why not push everyone up a spot so that 3-4-5 are batting 1-2-3? The problem with that is then you have your 1-2 hitters (who should be pretty good too) getting very few PAs. If you put them after the 5 guy, then your worst hitters come up right before the heart of the order. It's an interesting thought, but it depends very strictly on the makeup of the team. Your idea could work for the A's though, if they have one good OBP (not contact) guy.

call me crazy but ive never thought ryan howard is that great of a ball player. sure he can mash with the best but if he doesnt cut down on 200+ K years his career will be over quickly. those will only go up with time as he cant get around on the fastballs heloves tocrush

Oliver Perez make sense for Oak?

NYYanksCaptain-

Initially, I'd say the A's are in a retooling stage. However, that becomes confusing when the A's traded for Holliday, even if what they traded was quintessentially spare parts (If Sweeney/Cunningham can't man CF well, trading Gonzalez could bite the A's in the a$$--that guy has the highest ceiling out of all the A's OF prospects).

If a rebuilding club wants someone to eat innings, just grab an AAAA guy or someone on the cheap and stick him in the rotation. It's called rebuilding.

The A's do have a better chance in 2010 than they do in 2009, but if they've acquired Holliday and Giambi, that shows an aptitude to go for it in '09, since both these guys force a near-MLB ready prospect to AAA for more seasoning(Cunningham and Barton) and rebuilding is all about playing the prospects. With the addition of Giambi, the division is wide open. Sheets is a "win-now" move, but the A's aren't sacrificing a large chunk of the future, as Holliday (and maybe Giambi) are gone after the '09 season and the A's aren't trading prospects to get Sheets. And, since the A's aren't sacrificing a large chunk of the future, it is ideal.

Wow.

The cost of no defense, no speed, sluggers is officially down.

Giambi, coming off a year when posted a 128 OPS+ with 32 HR, his third year at 128+ in the last four seasons, gets just $5.25M over a single season?

Gotta like this move for the Athletics though.

The lineup is pretty much set now, unless they add someone to the left side of their infield (which sucks!!).

One idea would be to trade Daric Barton for a third baseman possibly, although I'm not sure what teams would be interested in that kind of move.

And once again, hopefully this deal is cheap enough that the A's can afford to go after Sheets. He'd transform that rotation in the short term and make that team a very legitimate contender in the AL West.

A lineup that includes Holliday, Giambi, Cust, Ellis, Suzuki, Sweeney, Buck, Crosby and possibly Chavez, with a rotation of Sheets, Duke, Eveland, Gallagher and Braden?

Honestly, the Angels are probably getting a little scared. They'll probably end up landing a bat or a fifth starter, because right now they aren't such clearcut favorites.

Tim---

The Olney article says that he's got a 5.25MM salary for 2009, and the 1.25 MM buyout for 2010, so wouldn't that be 6.5MM guaranteed?

My math is a smidge incorrect then, the A's would be at about 50MM if the buyout counts towards '09 payroll (which buyouts usually count towards the next year, not that year)

Mark Mulder back to the As, that's funny. Thats what happens when you trade your best arms and have zip in the rotation the following. The A's will have a good lineup and the Angels will have some competition this year. But the Angels have more pitching, the A's have a lot of young/rookie starters. Should be interesting with Holliday and Giamti, Chavez & Cust in the middle of the lineup

"Personally, I don't do that. First of all, there are questions with both Carter and Doolittle, one being that Carter might have to move to DH. And, they're both far from the bigs and anything can happen.

In 2010, I move Cust back to LF and give Giambi the DH position, assuming his option gets picked up. That makes one of Sweeney/Buck/Cunningham trade bait, which would've probably been necessary. That isn't a defensive sacrifice, as Giambi is worse at 1B than Cust is at LF."

That is probably the best solution. Especially considering that outside of Holliday, they're depending on all young guys in their outfield (Sweeney, Cunningham, Buck).

I just hate the idea of watching Bobby Crosby and Jack Hannahan playing side by side everyday again, and that team really has nothing in terms of good 3B/SS prospects with the exception of Adrian Cardenas, but he projects more as a second baseman and it's pretty unlikely that he ever could become an adequate defensive shortstop.

If they could land a Chin Lung Hu type player in a deal, then I really think that's something they should look it.

That doesn't necessarily mean that Barton would be dealt though.

The Angels better be careful.

If the A's sign Giambi and a decent pitcher, they could be trouble.

PL-

Good call on Pettitte as another guy the A's should go after.

I thought Johnson was the ideal fit, but if the A's can get a quality veteran pitching on a short deal, then they really should.

Going into the season with one good veteran starter and a bunch of young 4/5's isn't really good plan when your offense isn't exactly stacked.

Adding Sheets or Pettitte would really help to solidify that whole rotation and make the team a very legit contender.

And yes, we all know how great Oakland's pitching will be in a few years. It really won't be any different than it was five years ago, except with different names.

"Id make a run at Jason Donald of the Phillies, he's blocked by Rollins but is absolutely an everyday SS who will be ready by late 09. The Phillies brass is trying to turn him into a 3B, but he has infinite more value at SS in this diluted SS talent pool."

I agree. I don't want Hu at all. If the A's are going to trade with the Dodgers, go for DeJesus.

Gleaning at the Phillies' organizational depth, they really need SP who are ready around 2010-2011 (depth/bullpen for 2010, full time rotation in 2011)

Let's assume '09 rotation is
Hamels-Myers-Blanton-Moyer-Happ

Myers walks as a FA in '09, and Carrasco takes his spot. However, after 2010, both Blanton and Moyer are FA. So, a high-ceiling SP prospect who is projected to be ready around 2010-2011 is ideal. He could work in the pen for 2010, and move to the rotation for 2011.

I can easily see Duchscherer for Donald going down if the Phils need a front line starter and Duke is healthy. Maybe a couple of other peripheral prospects going from either side too to even out that Duke is in a walk year.

Youre right about Donald subbing for Utley adding to his value, but if he doesnt hit well it might do the opposite.

Fantastic, signing of the offseason.

Melonis-

I assumed that the Dodgers wouldn't deal Ivan DeJesus, because he can play multiple positions, also has a plus glove, and is much better with the bat.

I assumed Hu would be gone long before DeJesus.

And also,

I could see a Vin Mazzaro and a low level guy for Donald deal.

Plus, if you strikeout then you can't hit into a double play. Strikeouts mean little to hitters.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3813273

Olney's changed his info again.

ESPN is now saying the deal is for 1yr/4MM with a 6.5MM base option, and 1.25MM buyout.

This is weird. It was definitely reporting that it was a 5.25MM '09 salary with a 1.25MM buyout for 2010. But the option year money was lower though. Did they just restructure the contract.

"Kind of funny to see all of these players crawling back to Oakland though after Beane was ripped for trading them in the first place by a lot of mainstream media guys."

2 out of 3 Big Three members and arguably the A's best position player of the era are on Bay Area teams.

That's if Mulder is signed by the A's.

"You have to think Giambi invested his Yankees money wisely that he doesnt need any more. I was thinking he'd sign for $7-10M, $4M is such a discount its ridiculous. He could play 1B or even SS (lol) and still be worth more than that $4M!"

He gets to grow his hair out in Oaktown. That must count for something.

Giambi will easily be worth that 4MM. Hell, if Giambino performs like he did in '08 or even close to that level, he's also bringing the A's two draft picks.

Thats a great deal for Giambi. 30 HR's could come from a few places. Hopefully the extra money goes to an offer toward a pitcher...i'd say shortstop but offering up extra cash for Cabrera's potential production doesn't seem worth it. Maybe Crosby will see the Furcal attempt as a kick in the rear.

The Phillies just signed Giles to back up Utley. Does this mean that Oakland can go after Donald now?

Then bat him second, so when he walks or k's Holliday can do the job that Cust fails to do when runners are on 2nd or 3rd.