Mets Confident About Rotation

Yeah I don't see how we don't get one of them...if not Lowe, then Perz for what? 3/30ish? If that can be had I would LOVE to go after Sheets on a 2/16-20 deal. Keep it on the low end with incentives built in there based on appearances and innings pitched.

Many people are scared of Sheets because of injuries. But he has never had major arm injuries right? And Redding would be a good long reliever/spot starter for those 5-10 starts he may miss.

If we aren't going to go after Manny, I would much rather spend more money on a pitcher like Sheets than on a guy like Dunn or Abreu just for the sake of adding an offensive player...

It would be premature to just hand Niese the 5th starter spot and not have him compete for it. He's young, and didn't perform too well in his short stint at the end of last season.

"mets will have no chance against the yanks rotation this year."

Why does that matter? Do the Mets and Yankees play in the same division all of a sudden?

"if not Lowe, then Perz for what? 3/30ish? If that can be had I would LOVE to go after Sheets on a 2/16-20 deal."

If Perez signs for $10M per year, Sheets is almost guaranteed to sign for more. Sheets is MUCH better than Perez, injuries or not.

Of course, if the reports of Sheets having a messed up shoulder/elbow that would require surgery are true, this wouldn't be the case.

"Burnett will kick Maines old fat"

Burnett is older then Maine you make no sense

Marlinsman1120,

Your point does not make any sense. Niese showed last year that he was not ready for the big leagues. Perez (if the Mets sign him) and Redding are not "blocking" Niese. As of now, both of them are better pitchers than Niese. Anyway, AAA is where Niese should be right now. I am sure if Redding struggles and he is pitching well at AAA, then Niese will get a shot to take the #5 spot in the rotation.

Santana is a stud. Last season Pelfrey was slightly above average, with Maine and Perez (if he returns) both league average. Redding was below average. Maybe about the same as the average #5 starter.

Really, with their new end of the game bullpen, the Mets would be better off with Lowe than Perez. But even with Lowe I can't see the Mets winning 90 games next year. Their starters just aren't good enough, unless Pelfrey takes another huge step forward and Lowe or Perez pitch really well too.

o.k the bottom line is that the mets suck and choke every year and the yankees are the team to beat this year.the yankees lineup will crap on the mets lineup with arod and texeria. and especially the rotation. cc is beter than johan burnett is better than anybody else in the mets rotation.. so Yankees>mets

Why is this a Yankees v.s. Mets discussion? Why do people care about these things? Yes, the Yankees are clearly better on paper than the Mets, as they should be after their spending spree.

ERA+

Hamels: 145
Moyer: 118
Myers: 96 (but pitched MUCH better after coming back from the minors)
Blanton: 104 (with Phillies)

Bullpen: best ERA in NL, Lidge perfect in save opportunities.

That's not including the other people the Phillies may have used. Even with Putz/ K-Rod is their bullpen going to move into the top 5 next season in the NL?

"he didnt perform well in the short splint"
it called growing pains, and thatt based on 3 games, and he has show that he can pitch in the majors, one game against the braves, 8inn, 0ers, 7so.

aminaya,
the marlins throw in there young talent, and they work, and knock the mets off of the playoff 2straight year

you welcome philly, and brewers

aminaya, last year niese threw 178inns year minor+major. and he be protected as a 5thstarter and a little seasonal never hurts

The Mets clearly aren't done adding arms - it's not fair to assume that the current rotation a/o January 11th will be the same come opening day.

Posted by: Chris W. | January 11, 2009 at 10:13 AM

Didn't Minaya say that he's being limited on payroll? The signing of Tim Redding is a joke. They should've just had an incentive based deal for Penny or Smoltz (like what the Sox did). An incentive based deal to Pedro would've been better.

The guy pitched at least 150 IP only TWICE in his career with a 5 ERA and he deserves a major league deal?

The Redding deal means that the Mets have to sign either Perez or Lowe.

Even with a better pen, Minaya fixes one weakness and just creates another. With the current Mets rotation, I can guarantee who will be blamed for the 09 collapse.

C Jorge Posada or Brian Schneider - Jorge Posada (although Brian Schneider is much better defensively Posada blows him out offensively and is a competent defender when healthy

1B Mark Teixeira or Carlos Delgado - Mark Teixeira (this guy should have been a Met i was livid when we resigned Delgado because that took us out of the Teixeira sweepstakes)

2B Robinson Cano or Luis Castillo - Robinson Cano (no explanation)

3B Alex Rodriguez or David Wright - Alex Rodriguez (monster season out of him this year is expected because of his new condom in Mark Teixeira)

SS Derek Jeter or Jose Reyes - Derek Jeter (he still owns the city of NY. Nobody commands the respect he does. The only reason in my decision is Jeter has a big C on his jersey and more World Series Rings than Jose Reyes. Reyes is a catalyst on the Mets but the Yankees wouldn't be the Yankees without Jeter)

LF Johnny Damon or Daniel Murphy - Johnny Damon (Damon had one of the best seasons in his career last year proving he still got it and can be a tremendous catalyst in the Yankees offense)

CF Brett Gardner or Carlos Beltran - Carlos Beltran (Carlos Beltran should have been a Yankee but thankfully he is a NY Met and we finally have an advantage

RF Xavier Nady or Ryan Church - Xavier Nady (we should have never let Nady go he had a big year last year and i think he finally reached his clique)

SP CC Sabathia or Johan Santana - Johan Santana (this one is debatable but Johan is an ACE and with the new bullpen i seriously can expect about 20-22 as a minimum

SP AJ Burnett or John Maine - AJ Burnett (both have injury history but when healthy AJ Burnett has the best raw stuff in baseball0

SP Chien Ming Wang or Mike Pelfrey - Chien Ming Wang (based on the fact that when Wang is healthy he wins 19 games every season and last year if he didn't hurt his foot would have won 19 without even breaking a sweat. Mike has so much potential but he has to reach it fully with one more good season until the conversation is debatable)

SP Joba Chamberlain or Tim Redding - Joba Chamberlain (This kid is a future ace while Tim Redding can win about 15 games this year but he needs to stay consistent like last year which is a big question mark)

SP Phil Hughes or Jon Niese - Phil Hughes (Phil Hughes has the stuff that will make him into a very competent #1-2 type pitcher and while Jon Niese did pitch fairly well for the Mets many believe his ceiling is as a #2-3 type pitcher)

CP Mariano Rivera or Francisco Rodriguez - Mariano Rivera (no questions asked he is one of the best closers ever and every team would want him closing out game 7 of the World Series)

SU Damaso Marte or JJ Putz - JJ Putz (this guy is a beast on the mound i was so happy the morning i woke up and saw on MLBTR that the Mets got him. When healthy this guy is untouchable.)

SU Brian Bruney or Pedro Feliciano - Brian Bruney (the Yankees found a nice gem when they signed Bruney away from Arizona on a minor league contract. He lost weight last season and when he came back from injury he was nearly unhittable)

MRP David Robertson or Duaner Sanchez - Duaner Sanchez (i always liked this kid and the stuff he posses i feel like he will return to form this season because the pressure isn't on him as much as it was last season, if he indeed returns to form the Mets bullpen will be great)

MRP Edwar Ramirez or Sean Green - Edwar Ramirez (Edwar Ramirez isn't the most reliable of pitchers to have on a ball club because he is either lights out with a devastating change up of his or he gets rocked, regardless he has the potential to strike out the side every time he comes in and thats a big asset

MRP Jose Veras or Brian Stokes - Jose Veras (his funky delivery and the fact that he was a closer makes decision very easy for me)

LRP Dan Giese or Bobby Parnell - Bobby Parnell (Dan Giese can pitch well on the given day but Bobby Parnell contain so much potential especially as a reliever that he has to get the advantage)

"The point is that the current Mets staff + 1 is capable of replicating the performance of the 2008 Phillies, or, in the very least, winning 90 games."

Only if that "+1" is Lowe. Perez is league average, maybe a little more. The Mets bullpen still isn't all that great. It's better with K-Rod and Putz, but even then, Putz was injured last season and was only slightly better than league average. Santana was great, but if he regresses to his 2007 level (which is still amazing) the Mets lose any benefit they got from their bullpen upgrades. And is the Mets offense any better than it was last season? Delgado ended with a 127 OPS+. Can he be that good again?

"if nothing else, we atleast have Maine instead of the mix and match fifth starter we had last year..barring more injuries of course. But looking at all that, and the fact that the off season isn't over, I am very confident we will win atleast 90 games."

Well first, there WILL be injuries. There always are, for every team. Second, you have Redding as the #5. Not really an upgrade on Pedro. Third, Minaya says he has limited payroll, so if you sign Perez (and Lowe signs with the Braves) who else can the Mets sign?

Tommy and Alex,

This is why Yankee fans like you guys are so hated. Honestly, stop wasting your time bitching about the Mets, they're in a different league than the Yankees. Just because the Yankees spent nearly half of a billion dollars on 3 FA's doesn't make them better than everyone else.

Burnett over Maine's old fat butt? First of all, Burnett's 32 and Maine's 27. Next time I'd do some research. And A-Rod and Tex don't make an entire lineup.

Rolling is assuming the ancient Yankee core won't regress. That's a dumb assumption given their age. I bet at least 3-4 or them start declining rapidly. Heck, Posada's 2008 season could be seen as the start of that decline for him. He may never bounce back to where he was.

Bottom line is the games are not played on paper and the Yankees aren't even in the Mets division. But blast year the Mets did beat the Yankees in interleague.

"Well first, there WILL be injuries. There always are, for every team. Second, you have Redding as the #5. Not really an upgrade on Pedro. Third, Minaya says he has limited payroll, so if you sign Perez (and Lowe signs with the Braves) who else can the Mets sign?"

First of all, you are right...unfortunately injuries always seem to happen. They really seemed to happen last year to us and we still won 89. We have improved our team this offseason, and without have less injury proned players on our roster. I still don't see how you don't think we are capable of winning 90. Also, everyone is "limited" financially in this economy. Curious though, can you show me where you saw that quote from Omar? Yeah maybe we can't spend more than last year even though we have the new stadium (because of the economy) but we are still almost 20 mil under last years pay roll..

**and we have less injury...** sorry about that

I don't think there are many GMs today who would take an aging Jeter over Reyes.

Reyes is not only much better defensively but his offense isn't far off. Jeter will probably continue to decline offensively as well, while Reyes still has upside.

Hawk - I am also a Mets fan. That being said, I respect the hell out of Derek Jeter. He was my favorite player since 96 until D Wright emerged. He is just a clutch class act, and there is nothing to not like about him as a player. All this makes me feel that I can give a truly unbiased opinion here. At this point in their careers, Reyes is the player I would rather have as my shortstop. Yes Jeter definitely is superior in the intangibles, but you have to look at production. Last year...

Reyes had 25 more hits, 25 more runs, 12 more doubles, 16 more triples, and five more homers to give him 84 more total bases. While tallying up 1 less RBI, he had 3 less SO and 14 more BB with 45 more stolen bases. His average was just 3 points lower than Jeters (.297 vs. .300) though he had an OPS of .828 vs. Jeter's .771

"Plus, the team averaged a 4.07 ERA."

A huge part of that was the Mets bullpen. I think Omar has pretty much fixed that.

And they scored the second most runs in the NL last season. There offense is not a problem.

It remains how to be seen how they complete their rotation. Too soon to say one way or another.

Seriously Rolling...careerwise Jeter has it hands down..but how can u not take Reyes RIGHT NOW. Jeter is on the decline. His defense is already taking a hit, hes losing a lot of range. All you have to do is watch the games to see that. As for Reyes, he IS immature, but the upside for Reyes is huge. With a little more plate discipline and maturity, he might end up better then Jeter ever was statwise. That being said, I dont think Reyes will ever have the leadership quality that Jeter has, but as for everything else, Reyes is right there.

And to be completely honest, if you took Mariano Rivera off the Yankees, the Skankees(i mean Yankees) are nothing

**no other shortstop***

I would take Manny in a heartbeat.

btw, all that was directed at strikethree

Go compare them in another thread. Nobody gives a damn about the Yanks or Sox.

The Yankees would be in the World Series every year if they were a National League East team, the Mets would barely have a 500 record in the AL East with their current rotation.

"The Yankees would be in the World Series every year if they were a National League East team, the Mets would barely have a 500 record in the AL East with their current rotation."

Well it must suck for you Yankee fans that you're not in the NL East, huh?

Even given his 2007 stint I'd really love to see Hughes prove something at the Major league level before people praise him.

"unlike the Mets who choke every year."

Yeah man all two times. And last year wasn't even really a choke job because it was neck and neck, people just called it a choke because of the year before.

The biggest choke in baseball history was the 2004 Yankees and that same group of players is still there so I don't know why this year will be any different for them.

Not only is Santana a better starter than CC, but CC had an awful start to the 2008 season; he's not as consistent as Johan. Plus, he's 25 lbs away from a dismal season.

Wang is also a very injury prone pitcher, a perfect complement to Burnett, another health liability.

And Hughes has yet to do it on the ML level.

The Yankees rotation is no sure thing despite their gross overspending.

The biggest chokes in baseball was the 2007 and 2008 Mets and that same group of players is still there so i dont know why this year will be any different for them. Not only is the Yankees rotation better than the Mets rotation, the Mets front office is afraid to spend money bc they are cheap. Good Luck with Tim Redding (they were smart they would have tried a Brad Penny, Mark Mulder, Freddy Garcia, John Smoltz type)

Maine is also an injury prone pitcher a perfect compliment to Oliver Perez the wild and erratic player who can't pitch for his life against the sucky team that the Yankees would devour.

Pelfrey hasn't proved squat yet he has to have another solid season which we will see.

The Mets rotation is so far from a sure thing its not even funny and don't expect your cheap GM and FO to go out and sign Derek Lowe, not gonna happen.

Yanks in 09

C Jorge Posada or Brian Schneider - Jorge Posada (although Brian Schneider is much better defensively Posada blows him out offensively and is a competent defender when healthy

1B Mark Teixeira or Carlos Delgado - Mark Teixeira (this guy should have been a Met i was livid when we resigned Delgado because that took us out of the Teixeira sweepstakes)

2B Robinson Cano or Luis Castillo - Robinson Cano (no explanation)

3B Alex Rodriguez or David Wright - Alex Rodriguez (monster season out of him this year is expected because of his new condom in Mark Teixeira)

SS Derek Jeter or Jose Reyes - Jose Reyes

LF Johnny Damon or Daniel Murphy - Johnny Damon (Damon had one of the best seasons in his career last year proving he still got it and can be a tremendous catalyst in the Yankees offense)

CF Brett Gardner or Carlos Beltran - Carlos Beltran (Carlos Beltran should have been a Yankee but thankfully he is a NY Met and we finally have an advantage

RF Xavier Nady or Ryan Church - Xavier Nady (we should have never let Nady go he had a big year last year and i think he finally reached his clique)

SP CC Sabathia or Johan Santana - Johan Santana (this one is debatable but Johan is an ACE and with the new bullpen i seriously can expect about 20-22 as a minimum

SP AJ Burnett or John Maine - AJ Burnett (both have injury history but when healthy AJ Burnett has the best raw stuff in baseball0

SP Chien Ming Wang or Mike Pelfrey - Chien Ming Wang (based on the fact that when Wang is healthy he wins 19 games every season and last year if he didn't hurt his foot would have won 19 without even breaking a sweat. Mike has so much potential but he has to reach it fully with one more good season until the conversation is debatable)

SP Joba Chamberlain or Tim Redding - Joba Chamberlain (This kid is a future ace while Tim Redding can win about 15 games this year but he needs to stay consistent like last year which is a big question mark)

SP Phil Hughes or Jon Niese - Phil Hughes (Phil Hughes has the stuff that will make him into a very competent #1-2 type pitcher and while Jon Niese did pitch fairly well for the Mets many believe his ceiling is as a #2-3 type pitcher)

CP Mariano Rivera or Francisco Rodriguez - Mariano Rivera (no questions asked he is one of the best closers ever and every team would want him closing out game 7 of the World Series)

SU Damaso Marte or JJ Putz - JJ Putz (this guy is a beast on the mound i was so happy the morning i woke up and saw on MLBTR that the Mets got him. When healthy this guy is untouchable.)

SU Brian Bruney or Pedro Feliciano - Brian Bruney (the Yankees found a nice gem when they signed Bruney away from Arizona on a minor league contract. He lost weight last season and when he came back from injury he was nearly unhittable)

MRP David Robertson or Duaner Sanchez - Duaner Sanchez (i always liked this kid and the stuff he posses i feel like he will return to form this season because the pressure isn't on him as much as it was last season, if he indeed returns to form the Mets bullpen will be great)

MRP Edwar Ramirez or Sean Green - Edwar Ramirez (Edwar Ramirez isn't the most reliable of pitchers to have on a ball club because he is either lights out with a devastating change up of his or he gets rocked, regardless he has the potential to strike out the side every time he comes in and thats a big asset

MRP Jose Veras or Brian Stokes - Jose Veras (his funky delivery and the fact that he was a closer makes decision very easy for me)

LRP Ian Kennedy or Bobby Parnell - Even

The Johan-CC debate shouldn't exist. There's Johan, then a big gap, then Lincecum, then Halladay, then Beckett, then CC.

No, the biggest choke in all of baseball history was the 2004 Yankees. From that group, Jeter, A-Rod, Posada, and Matsui are still there. Just overspending on two starters is not going to change that.

Not only do they still have that group of chokers, but they have an aging core that is at high risk for decline this season.

Heck, Posada probably started it already last year and may never be the same again ... just another overpaid Yankee player in the grand tradition of Pavano, Clemens and Giambi.

On another note, Yankee fan mike has demonstrated that he knows how to copy and paste. Whoopty-doo.

mikey, you can play all the games in your mind all you want, but don't forget that the Mets beat the Yankees last year and the Yanks were beaten by the Rays who the Phillies beat. Your Yankees are way down on the totem pole and no amount of spending can change that. You got to do it on the field.

Comparing individual stats of the Yankees and Mets doesn't matter. Fact is, the Spankees have had an allstar lineup for years and nothing to show for it. All that list does is make the fact even worse that you guys were out of the playoff race midseason last year.

If I was a Yankee fan (thankfully not) I'd pray everyday that the Yankees make the playoffs, because if they don't this year with the "big name" FA's they signed, I'd be embarassed to walk out of my house. And you would hear ALOT of s**t talking from fans of every other team in baseball.

Can't wait till it happens!!

If the Yankees miss the playoffs...it will be the greatest moment in Queens since October 1986.

"First of Im a 15 year old boy and I take offense toward you saying we know nothing about baseball. I follow baseball 24/7 checking here and metsblog right after school."

First mistake you check Metsblog that site is terrible and Ceronne has no clue what he is talking about.

"that actually only took me 10 minutes to type up"

Only 10 minutes? My pieces of crap usually only take 5 minutes. Step your game up.

As for the rotation, bring back my favorite little Mexican southpaw and call it a day. If he ever gets his BB rate down to something reasonable, he can be elite. If he doesn't, he has shown in 07 and 08 that he still can still be league average.

RollingNightHawk:
As we say in the hood:
Dem fightin werds right der chill out bro i don think he meant it lyk that but w.e

Nrmaxx your comment about the southpaw was really bad and you left yourself wide open for dis one.

"bring back my favorite little Mexican southpaw and call it a day. "

Is that wat u say about Fernando your gang bangin mexican "neighbor" behind his back? after all he's done to plz u with that left hand of his to plz u ur just throw him away and call it a day??? ... you should be ashamed of urself.

No hard feelns son you are a good poster but sometimes you gotta chill down a lil

"nrmaxx88 is the scum bag of these threads. Of course your sh*t takes 5 minutes to type out because your writing is either poorly thought out, makes no sense at all or you are fighting with someone. You have no right to low ball people based on their own opinions and truthfully you are one of the worst posters on this blog and i hardly ever read what you say unless someone else disregards it, then and only then is your writing valuable. Stop acting like a smart ass you low lifed drunken tool. You probably still live with your mommy. Tell her i'd like a can of those cold chef boy ar dee ravioli's to. Thanks dirty piece of sh*t"

Right... you definitely don't read any of my posts. You formed a lot of opinions of me from not reading any of my posts. You even came to the conclusion that I live with my mommy, how sweet. Hate to break it to you pal, but when you type out a 3 foot post comparing the Mets to the Yankees, and then brag about how quickly you forged this massive piece of crap, nobody is going to tripping over themselves to congratulate you. They are going to say it is annoying and completely pointless.

"Nrmaxx your comment about the southpaw was really bad and you left yourself wide open for dis one."

Yes, if you are in 6th grade and think that sort of thing is funny, then I am glad I entertained you. I don't know what this whole scenario with the gang banger Fernando next door or whatever is all about, but I suggest you talk about whatever Fernando did to you with a therapist, this is not the forum for that discussion. Now let the big boys talk baseball.

I'll concede that these sites are for discussing teams and how they play on paper, but you have to look at more than just offensive production. It's also about compatability. I could go on, but here's just one example:

You want to brag about your injury prone Burnett? Assuming he stays healthy, he's an affective groundball pitcher. That would mean you need a sharp infield. Let's take a look:

1B - Texeira is sharp. Heck I'll admit it. I'm intimidated by the fact that he's on your team.

2B - Robinson Cano is young but he has no hustle.

SS - Jeter will be 35, which isn't quite yet too old for a baseball player, but it's definitely too old for a shortstop.

3B - A-Rod is A-Rod. He'll be 34 which isn't too old I guess. He'll probably be a pretty good defender next year.

Summation: You have a groundball pitcher and a half way decent infield. Functional, but nothing too much to brag about.