Rickey Henderson, Jim Rice Elected To HOF

How could Ricky Henderson not be unanimous?

Posted by: cubz23 | January 12, 2009 at 01:14 PM

As Kurt Minihane said in his blog, there are journalists who are on a moral high-horse and think that his attitude and supposed selfishness are reason to not vote him in on the first ballot. Of course, he also makes other statements that are, in my opinion, ridiculous.

If Rice gets in under the "dominant for a decade" argument, then why didn't Albert Belle even receive the 5% required to stay on the ballot? Albert Belle was the most dominating power hitter from 1991-2000, hitting more Home Runs (373), more Xtra Base Hits (771), and Driving in more runs (1199) than any other player during that time. He also hit .297 in this span. All of this while Frank Thomas, Ken Griffey Jr, and Barry Bonds were in their primes.

Belle was cold shouldered simply because he was a jerk. But he hit the hell out of the ball better than any player in either league. Now that Rice is in, I can't see how anyone can justify Belle being snubbed, based on stats alone.

Also, When the hell is the Hawk getting in?

@tvators:

Short carreer? He played for 16 seasons! How long do people have to play these days...sheesh.

And the whole notion of "automatic" milestones is part of what is wrong with the voting. Instead of using arbitrarily decided upon stat milestones why not look at everything as a whole?

Rice getting in while Grace drops of the ballot is crazy.

I'd take Mark Grace over Jim Rice in a second for the Hall.

RSD I am calling you an idiot because you are the type of fan who probably cares more about the yankees lossing than you care about the red sox winning.

A general comment to all who are comparing Rice to guys like McGwire, Albert Belle and others who played in the Steroids Era: What part of "Steroids Era" do you not understand? The numbers can't be compared. If Jim Rice was on something, do you think his career would've gone in the toilet so quickly? More than likely, he would've blown past 500 homers if he were on the same stuff as the juicers.

by short career I meant he was done by good 33 years old and out of baseball by 36 years old...and I am not big on the counting stat milestone numbers either but people use taht as an argument for others and its just one more thing he doesn't have. And no, I think if Rice was on steriods his body would have broken down in his 30's and he'd rapidly decline...oh wait... he did, he must have been a user, RSD what do your eyes say???

Congrats to Rickey! As for Rice...guess he really showed those writers something in that 15th year of eligibility, eh? Disgraceful. I hate that "Very Good" players are getting into the Hall on years with small classes...it really cheapens the whole thing. They really need to add other people to the voting process. I think it's stupid that announcers don't vote.

From what I can tell, Rice had a cup of coffee, 11 good to great seasons, 2 average seasons and a fall off the map season. He had a very nice career, and I his Hall worthiness is very debatable.

I don't have a huge problem with him getting in, but there are certainly more worthy candidates who should get in before Jim Rice. I get the impression that if he played in a smaller market, he'd never even sniff the hall of fame, but because he's a Boston guy, there was a big media push to get him in.

Rice was a borderline Hall of Famer so I can see him being in or not being in, but I'm happy for the guy.

Belle is probably the biggest position player snub for the HOF. The guy was truly dominant.

McGriff is an interesting case because he really only had an 8 year peak, but then several years of very good performance with an outstanding one mixed in. I'd have to say he's in too.

And I also don't want to here this talk about the Hall becoming diluted. Let's be honest, its been diluted for a very long time. Tony Perez, Orlando Cepeda, etc... Hell, Koufax only had 6 dominant seasons (albeit, very dominant ones) and nobody seems to mind him in.

The Jim Rice and Albert Belle debates are nice...but what about Dick Allen? I think he's the best player (besides Rose) not in the HOF, IMO.

I suspect that more than a few posters must remember a guy named Bill James? He started all this extra stats business but he also thought about numbers in ways that most young posters never ponder.

Bill James wrote about the "Babe Herman Effect" years ago: it is a mistake to argue that because one player gets in to the HoF means others with similar or even superior stats should also get in.

Players do not deserve the HoF on the basis of statistics alone. In fact, the BBWA relies more on a player's reputation as the final arbitor than just the players statistics. Of course, the stats need to be there but since there aren't (and should never be) any baseline numbers to make a decision on, one must rely on more qualitative factors.

Jim Rice has the required stats to get in the Hof but made it not on those numbers, but because he was one of the most feared hitters in his era. In his best 8-10 seasons, Jim Rice was widely regarded by baseball people (which includes BBWA) as one of the best pure hitters to play the game. It didn't hurt that he played on Boston which gets a lot of media attention.

Players like Lee Smith, Albert Belle, and Tim Raines never engendered Hall of Fame speculation when they were playing, it should come as no surprise that they aren't getting it now. Yes, they have good numbers but hardly anyone thought of them as potential Hall of Famers.

Jim Rice though, was a different story. At the peak of his career, he was regarded as Hall of Fame material - not first ballot to be sure, but as a guy who probably would make it one day. Congratulations to him!

Slayer, YanksFanSince78: Thanks for speaking the gospel (can't believe I'm agreeing with a Yanks Fan).

Everyone else: I don't really have a problem with Rice getting into the HOF. I feel happy for the guy. I just think that if Rice gets in, the writers have NO reason to exclude other players similar, or better than him. My argument was that Belle was MORE dominant than Rice over a 10 year stretch, and that he ONLY HAD a 10 year stretch to accumulate his stats. Any arguments about Belle playing during the steroid era are totally bogus. Players like Belle, Griffey, and Frank Thomas were all large, strong players with fantastic athleticism. Belle was simply a monster for 10 years.

ANY voter who didn't vote for Rickey is a complete idiot. That's widely recognized. What on earth kind of ridiculous pretentiousness could lead to a person NOT voting for Rickey Henderson? Seriously.

The Hall Of Fame is a joke more because of the people it excludes (Trammell, Dawson), than for the fringe players it includes. If not for Cal Ripken Jr changing the expectations of the SS position, Alan Trammell is a first ballot hall of famer (based on comparison with shortstops from the first 100 years of baseball). If not for the "steroid era" that everyone bemoans, Andre Dawson is a first ballot hall of famer.

hmm...sooooo... whos the jerk off that didn't vote Rickey Henderson in?

Here's an easy way to vote people in....if someone has to debate wheter or not your a Hall of Famer..then your not one....the Hall of Fame should be reserved for players when you look back at their careers you say "He's a HOF no question" instead of all this debating on whether he should be or not.....IMHO

Posted by: El Hombre_5 | January 12, 2009 at 04:11 PM

That is what they do. If 70% of the people say sure thing, he is in. Done

Rickey wants to know what PED's are? They just told Rickey they were Jelly Beans.

What a joke--a one-tool player who, with the help of DH'ing, barely hung on for 16 years! He couldn't throw, couldn't field, couldn't run, led his team to zip (counts if you are borderline), and resembled a stationary object (except when he was being extra-surly). If this guy is in, Katy-Bar-the-Door: Carmen Zanzone will soon be in!