Rosenthal On Lackey, Dunn, Young, Isringhausen

Red sox interested in Adam Dunn?!? does this mean that they dont think Papi and lowell are going to recover... Id think dunns asking price is too high for him to just be insurance..

If the Angels aren't willing to give Lackey, Burnett money then he will be a free agent. Lackey is the far better pitcher of the two

I am probably amongst a minority of Sox fans that would like to have Dunn, but not to move Youk to 3rd and replace Lowell, but replace Bay in left and trade Bay, whom just cannot do anything with a hanging off speed pitch and the league is bound to get his number this season if he stays in the AL another year I fear.

Dunn is the prototype Sox player: patience, patience patience and just maybe can cut down on those K's a bit. I say bring him on.

Lackey IS NOT better than Burnett . >Burnett has 100 x better stuff than Lackey .

Lackey just plays on a better team . . Put Lackeys a$$ on the Blue Jays team and lets see his numbers

I agree with Kenan. id take Bay over dunn any day. I feel as though Bay can bring more to a team than dunn could.

"Red sox interested in Adam Dunn?!? does this mean that they dont think Papi and lowell are going to recover... Id think dunns asking price is too high for him to just be insurance.."

Dunn would not be insurance. If the Sox acquired Dunn, it'd be for 1B, and Lowell would be shopped. I would not be surprised if this was Theo's plan all along.

The Sox are building around the idea that high OBP players are integral to the team's offensive success. Adam Dunn would easily turn into a 400+ OBP monster in that lineup.

Quiz time! I'm going to give you three stat lines.

1) 24 Doubles, 16.4 Walk %, 33.9 K%, 18.8% HR/FB

2) 23 Doubles, 19.1 Walk %, 31.7 K%, 24.2% HR/FB

3) 26 Doubles, 11.7 Walk %, 32.6 K%, 31.8% HR/FB

Which player do you think stands out over the others, and why? What do you like and dislike about each player?

One thing I've found is that investigating a player's performance without their names being listed, gives you a clear appreciation for what they really bring to the table.

"What? Who cares about better stuff. Lackey has clearly been the better pitcher."

Lackey pitches with smarts, he just knows how to get the best out of what he has and is not too bad in the post season either.

Time will tell on the never been to the post season Burnett, Lackey is 11-9 with a solid 3.39 ERA.

Johns,
I'm with you on this one. Having Adam Dunn in the linup wouldn't hurt the sox at all. I wouldn't necessarily trade bay, but Dunn fits.

John Lackey will be the Rangers big money target next winter.

"Lackey IS NOT better than Burnett . >Burnett has 100 x better stuff than Lackey .

Lackey just plays on a better team . . Put Lackeys a$$ on the Blue Jays team and lets see his numbers"

What in the world are you smoking? Lackey is clearly better than Burnett in almost every major category, and has a much better health history.

"John Lackey will be the Rangers big money target next winter."

If he even gets that far, not to mention that Texas is almost as bad as Colorado for pitchers.

Angels unwillingness to spend big money? 160 million isn't big enough for you? They will spend big money, when the player is worth it (and sometimes not, GMJ). Lackey will get a very nice extension.

Lets clairfy the common misconception about the Angels "unwillingness to spend." They offered an incredibly fair contract to Texiera,and the Yankees offered tremendously more. Krod was not worth the money period. All his other numbers lead you to believe there is going to be a BIG drop when he leaves. The Angels have always valued pitchers, adn there is no reason Lackey wont get locked up.

For everyone who guessed my question:

The players in order were:

Carlos Pena
Adam Dunn
Ryan Howard

I've found it interesting how Howard's Ks are not held against him the way Dunn's are. I'm not trying ot say Dunn > Howard, but I'm tyring to point out that Dunn is not like Jack Cust (a complete 3 true outcome guy) and is a lot closer to Howard's perceived value than most think.

Personally, as a Sox fan, I would go nuts if we got Dunn. Even if his hack defensive play is a slight liability, he'll be taking over at DH once Ortiz' contract is up anyway. As much as I wouldn't like to see him leave, I'm starting to see the writing on the wall about Ortiz not getting one more big contract.

And if Theo got at at or near Pat Burrell money? It'd be insane. I'm completely confident Dunn could eclipse a 1.000 OPS in Fenway on a full season.

K-Rod was offered 3 years and $34 million. A few million? the Angels would have to have outbid the Yankees to get Mrs. Teixeira to agree to stay out here, that's a little more than a "few" million.

Think the Redscan sign one of those three lefties? Petitte, Perez, or Wolf?

Reds need anotherstarter fdor next year, the OF situation will figure itself out. prolly EE to left with Fraizer and Valkia in the infield. Security in the staff is a good idea.

I dont know if the Angels had to have Teixiera as they did have the best record in the AL before they traded for him. But your point is understood.

Rev, why play him there when you have a GG in youkilis?

well, youk is a third baseman by trade, and with a little practice in ST he could get similar numbers at 3B I'm confident

Without a doubt but that'll leave an expensive and hard to trade mike lowell sitting on the bench. Guess I dont see the point in signing a guy for the sake of signing someone. As is, the red sox probably will have one of the top 3 or 4 offenses in the AL that can provide solid defense.

YF408, I too think Nady will be a type A but the comparison to Varitek isn't really applicable as there are more premeir OFs than Catchers.

I do think the Angels are willing to spend money, its just a matter of how much they'll offer lackey. With Burnett getting 5 and 82.5 million, i think a fair starting point is 5 years 90 million for him. The report states the angels could be unwilling to even offer the same contract burnett got, i know he likes the angels but that could be a 15-20 million dollar difference between what he could get and what he would get. Money talks, just remember that. they're have been plenty more "loyal" players who have left for a few more millions, what makes lackey so different?

Considering both offers would be short term and come off the books within 2 years time. Omar should shoot Sheets a 2 year offer with incentives (if pitching full season with Ace numbers, no one will complain about the extra $). Not sure if he would take a guaranteed 2 years with 3rd year option, and some incentives to juice it up to more annually. Following this move, offer 1 year at 12 million for Petitte. One year commitment and a quality Lefty who knows how to win and pitch in NY. A mutual option for year two would not be so bad either.

1. Johan
2. Sheets
3. Pelfrey
4. Petitte
5. Maine
Niece/Redding
(3-5 could be tossed in any order basically)

I would be psyched on this off season to have something like that, considering upgrading the offense seems like it is just not going to happen. Most likely anything close to this either. Shame.

Side Note: Kinsler to 3rd base makes too much sense for the Rangers to not just make that move and stick Young at 2nd. That team is a mess and so is Young's contract

kennet: 3 points

1) Florida would laugh at that trade offer
2) I would laugh at Jay Bay's play in CF at Fenway
3) Ollie to a rotation that includes, Beckett, Dice-K, Lester, Bucholz, Masterson, Smoltz, Wakefield, Penny would make sense how?

I make some ridiculous posts, but were you joking with all of that?

maybe if that other guy is lars anderson, you could keep the marlins from hanging up within 5 seconds.

"Yankee fan? Jay fan? What are you?
When Lackey is on he is down right filthy. Pitches deep into games, Takes his turn everytime in the rotation.
You take Burnett, I will take Lackey and well compare at the end of this year."

Coming from a Yankee fan... I would take Lackey over Burnett.

However, that being said, Lackey's main competition has been the Mariners, A's, and Rangers. That really doesn't strike fear into my heart (though the Rangers are good offensively). Burnett's main competition has been the Yankees, Red Sox, and Rays... absolute powerhouses.

Who has it tougher? Just take that into account before saying Lackey runs laps around Burnett.

bravesfan, have you seen the yankees defense as of late?

The Cardinals are interested in Issy again? Why don't we just see if we can blow more saves next season? That's ridiculous, we'd be better off with Trevor Hoffman. Oh yeah, it's all about money.

Agent - run the numbers on the AL West vs the rest of the AL over the past 5 years. Winning % wise the AL West is more than competitive with the East and Central.

Keenan - I have to agree with nrmax on this one. There was absolutely no reason to overpay for Tex. The Yanks bid an outrageous amount of money. As an Angels fan I struggled with the idea of paying him $18m/year (the initial price rumored heading into the off-season). Seeing him get 8/180 is just sick.

The Angels could use his bat. However, they could have signed Burrell + Dunn for about the same money and received far more production.

The Angels have handed out plenty of big contracts over the past 5 years. Some have been great (Vlad) some have been OK (Bartolo) and some will be awful (GMJ, Hunter). To say they are cheap is just flat out incorrect. In each case, significant money was spent.

Finally, K-Rod was not needed. I don't know who you read that said that K-Rod was crucial to the Angels success in 2009. They have a bullpen full of guys that post ERA's under 3. They have a farm system with another 2-3 guys that could easily step in and be top flight relievers in 09. Finally, they signed Fuentes to a very modest contract, several million under his expected price tag. I couldn't be happier with their bullpen at this point. I doubt K-Rod's departure will have a significant impact on the 09 Angels.

Doubt sox go after Dunn-

Unless they hide his defense in LF like they did w manny-

Theo does fall inlove w patient hitters at the plate like Dunn though, but hates guys who cant play defense

Only way they sign him is if they have something big on the horizon via trade inlvolving Bay or Elsbury

Dunn to the Red Sox is a JOKE!!!

Three or four years ago Bill James, the SABR guru (and the guy who WORKS for the Red Sox Front Office) specifically named Richie Sexson and Adam Dunn as guys with "old player" skills. He said these type of players were pretty much finished products when they arrived at the Major League level and wouldn't improve very much as they got older, unlike guys with "young player" skills.

He also said guys with "old player" skills Offensive production would drop off sooner and fall off faster than guys with "young player" skills. He said that because Pitchers would find and exploit the holes in their swing that, as they got older and either their hand eye coordination worsened or their bat speed slowed down, their hitting zones would shrink and the Pitchers would be able to find and exploit more areas and get them out easier.

Now, look at what has happened to Richie Sexson, a guy who put up BETTER stats than Dunn during his age 26 to 29 seasons and did it in a park that was NOT as hitter friendly as GASP.

So, if James predicted that Sexson's Offensive production would decline and do it FAST once it started and it happened then WHY would the Red Sox even THINK of getting Dunn?

Plus, if you think Manny R was bad at playing Defense in Fenway just think what Dunn would be like?

Also, even with the bad Defense, Manny was able to drive in between 110 and 130 RBI's year after yaer and DIDN'T have to rely strictly on hitting Home Runs to do it. Manny is a good hitter and can take otuside pitches and hit them to the opposite field.

Dunn, on the other hand, is NOT a good hitter and can NOT hit pitches over the outside part of the plate. If you don't belive me then just look at his Hit Chart and look at how opposing teams put the Infield Shift on for him. Look at how he RARELY gets a Hit towards the left side of the Infield.

So, unlike somebody like Wade Boggs, Dunn would NOT be able to take very much advantage of the Green Monster and thus would NOT get many Htis or Home Runs.

So, Manny R, his bad Defense and 110 to 130 RBI's a year is MUCH better than Dunn with his BAD Defense and 80 to 100 RBI's a year.

If I were the Red Sox Owners or Front Office, I would keep Bay, FORGET about Dunn and let the Washington Nationals waste their money on him.

Angels cheap?? No way- they gave an ancient Tori Hunter 90 million dollars over 5 years.

They have a good size payroll, but there problem is they keeping Scoscia around because of the 2002 world series.