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Rosenthal On Manny, Garcia, Greinke

Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports has a new column...

  • Rosenthal speculates that the Giants may not be the right fit for Manny Ramirez, given a challenging ballpark and questionable supporting cast of hitters.  Rosenthal suggests a contract that might work for Manny and the Dodgers: two years with a third-year player option, with no-trade protection covering only the first two years.
  • Many remaining free agents - Adam Dunn for example - may prefer a one-year deal because it will increase their options and allow them to re-enter the market after the season.
  • The White Sox found the price for Freddy Garcia to be too high ($1.5MM plus $6.5MM in incentives).  Rosenthal deems Oliver Perez a bad fit for the Sox in part because he's a flyball pitcher.  Also there's the whole Scott Boras thing.
  • Among the right-handed hitters the Phillies are mulling, Rosenthal feels that Nomar Garciaparra and Rich Aurilia make the most sense.
  • The Angels may go to Spring Training with their current club.
  • Zack Greinke received "very minor" no-trade protection in the first two years of his new deal, with seemingly no protection when his salary shoots up to $13.5MM in 2011.


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Comments

Neither of those pitchers is a good fit for Chicago.

Perez is a poor fit with his flyball tendencies and high walk rate (this basically makes him a bad fit in any hitters park), and Garcia is too similar to Colon as a buy low option, although at $1.5M plus incentives that's a pretty reasonable deal.

I think they really need a starter though, because Buehrle, Danks, Floyd, Colon and Richard isn't exactly a dependable rotation.

If they could land a solid pitcher for Dye and then sign Abreu/Dunn for one year, that would be ideal to me.



The White Sox found the price for Freddy Garcia to be too high ($1.5MM plus $6.5MM in incentives). 

Please tell me this a joke


Also, I believe the Braves will get either Dunn or Abreu on 2-3 yr deal, worth about 12 to 15 million plus a vestin option for 4th yr.

I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that ManRam doesn't get the 22M+ he could have received with the arbitration offer. Boras overplayed his hand and the Dodgers are smart enough not to negotiate against themselves. The Giants are clearly Boras-fueled propaganda, so why would the Dodgers offer much more than the next guy is willing to pay?

Simmons' take on the siuation this past summer is probably the best read on the situation.

"The Giants are clearly Boras-fueled propaganda, so why would the Dodgers offer much more than the next guy is willing to pay?"

Did you listen to the Giants president on MLB last night? He said that they are interested in Manny if they can work a deal that doesn't tie their hands in the future, 4 years, 3 years, or even 2 years. Right now, the Giants are the only team with any kind of offer to Manny, since the Dodgers pulled their 2/$45M deal over a month ago.

Boras is trying to get other teams involved in a bidding war, and no one is biting.

I'm sure if the Red Sox, Rays, Angels, or some other team perceived as a threat got involved the Yankees would play the "we have to sign him so they don't" game, and that is what Boras is counting on.

It should be interesting to see what happens.

The way Manny went out in Boston, if I was Ned Colletti i'd only offer 2/40 not 4/100 or 2/50 with an option for 3rd yr.

Yeah he carried the Dodgers on his back down the stretch, but he folded in the playoffs, but he had an awesome 2nd half. That's were I become iffy on an offer to give. If I was the Dodgers, I'd make him an offer and tell him to take it or leave it. And if he goes elsewhere(Yankees,Angels,Giants) there is still Dunn and Abreu. They may not bring the star power Manny does, but are a solid 1 to 2 year stopgaps for upcoming prospects or a run next year at Jason Bay or Matt Holliday. In the end, however, I believe Manny winds up back in Chavez-Ravine(spelling?) for 2yr/40-50 million with an option for a 3rd year.

ThOuGhTs?

Why would Dunn/Abreu sign to make $4-5M per?

Dunn is definitely worth more than that, and should get at least 2/18 or like 1/10, although Abreu probably deserves no more than 1/7 or 2/13.

"I believe Manny winds up back in Chavez-Ravine(spelling?) for 2yr/40-50 million with an option for a 3rd year.

ThOuGhTs?"

At this point,that looks overpriced. Without other teams interested Boras is clearly out of gas.

2yr/30 million?

Dunn is definitely worth more than that, and should get at least 2/18 or like 1/10, although Abreu probably deserves no more than 1/7 or 2/13.


Yeah Dunn should get just as much/better money than Burrell. The only reason Burrell signed first is because he took a discount to play for a team he wanted to when teams like the Angels or Braves easily would've gave up 4yr/40 million. Also, I suggest the Braves sign Abreu to a 2yr/12 million dollar deal.

With the rash of damaged vets with "low cost/medium reward" status that the Jays front office brings in...if the Phillies don't go for Nomar, do you think he'd be a decent fit in Toronto?

Veteran presence for Inglett, Hill, can back up Rolen, spell at DH every now and then. Might make more sense if Overbay was traded for some pitching as to not completely overload the infield with McDonald, Bautista and Scutaro around as well.

Thoughts?

Veteran presence for Inglett, Hill, can back up Rolen,


Has Omar Vizquel written all over it, but not anymore now that he's with Texas

I'm not so sure Burrell could've ever landed 4/40. His limitations are pretty clear, and if he signed for as little as 2/16, then odds are the next best offers were more but not substantially more. He probably had offers like 2/20 or 3/30, but I don't think there was any team in this market who would give a four year deal to a defensive liability like Pat Burrell.

I do agree that Abreu could be a good fit for the Braves, although I think Dunn would be better. The Braves already have lots of good contact/on base guys in Chipper, McCann Escobar, Johnson, Kotchman, and Blanco, and only Chipper and McCann have plus power in that lineup, along with possibly Francoeur.

Adding Dunn would give them a serious charge of power in their lineup, making it an extremely patient (with the exception of Francoeur) and deep lineup.

Gotta agree with Rosenthal on Perez not being right for the Sox. I really hope they're taking a flyer on Sheets or Mark Mulder though.

The Braves already have lots of good contact/on base guys in Chipper, McCann Escobar, Johnson, Kotchman, and Blanco, and only Chipper and McCann have plus power in that lineup, along with possibly Francoeur.


How is Casey Kotchman a good on base/contact guy?


Also I agree about Burrel and also believe it'd be a dangerous lineup with Dunn in it. But I mean the guy stikes out alot also. So what is projections for the roster, scribbletone?

Kotchman batted .325 with a .401 OBP for his minor league career, and posted a .372 OBP in 2007. In 2008, his walk numbers were down in LA, and then he just hit like crap in Atlanta but showed the return of all of his patience.

I think Kotchman can bounce back and be a solid .300/.370/.470 kind of hitter.

I'd probably throw the lineup together like this:

SS Escobar
2B Johnson
3B Jones
LF Dunn
C McCann
1B Kotchman
RF Francoeur
CF Blanco

Although you could move down Johnson to the six spot and put Blanco in the two hole or leading off.

"Gotta agree with Rosenthal on Perez not being right for the Sox. I really hope they're taking a flyer on Sheets or Mark Mulder though."

Definitely agree. Mulder, Sheets or even Pedro Martinez would be a great fit for the White Sox. They really need to land some high upside pitchers, and those three guys are the big three I can think of outside of Freddy. If Mulder can come back and keep the ball down, he could end up having a nice comeback in the Cell.

Coletti should tell Manny they're not interested. 2/45 is a fair deal but Manny is too offended to take it. I would be terrified of signing him for less than what Manny thinks he is worth. Honestly, how happy could you be if Manny "settles" for your lower offer. He's going to take your money and quit on the team.

Garcia is just about done, any money spent on him is wasted. Plus, any guy that reaches base essentially has a double because Freddy can not hold runners on first.

Scribbletone,

1. Josh Anderson
2. Yunel Escobar
3. Chipper Jones
4. Adam Dunn/Bobby Abreu
5. Brian Mccann
6. Jeff Francoeur
7. Kelly Johnsom
8. Casey Kotchman


1. Derek Lowe
2. Javier Vazquez
3. Jair Jurrjens
4. Kenshin Kawakami
5. Charlie Morton/Tom Glavine

RHP Jorge Campillo
LHP Boone Logan/Will Ohman
RHP Blaine Boyer
RHP Peter Moylan
RHP Rafael Soriano
LHP Mike Gonzalez


ThOuGhTs?

BravesFan10, did you actually say Manny folded in the playoffs last year?

How many Braves players in their dozen playoff years batted .520 with an OBP of .667?! And 4 homers and 10 rbis in 8 games?! What planet were you on when that happened?

Bravesfan10-

I feel like everything there is quite solid, but my only concern would be Josh Anderson in the leadoff spot.

I'm just not really sure that Anderson ought to be leading off, considering that they have guys that consistently post .370+ OBP's, and Anderson projects to be more of a .340-350 OBP kind of hitter, with lots of speed.

I personally would rather have Esco leading off, with Blanco/Anderson in the two hole, Kotchman batting sixth, Johnson seventh, and Francoeur eighth.

I'm just not sure if I want to have Josh Anderson be the guy that gets the most plate appearances on my team, rather than Escobar/Johnson/Blanco, guys that have consistently shown plus on base ability.

And, I don't think you bat Francoeur in front of Kotchman after the year that Frenchy just had. He's in the eight spot, as far as I can tell, unless they want to give him some confidence or something.

BravesFan10, did you actually say Manny folded in the playoffs last year?

How many Braves players in their dozen playoff years batted .520 with an OBP of .667?! And 4 homers and 10 rbis in 8 games?! What planet were you on when that happened?!

"BravesFan10, did you actually say Manny folded in the playoffs last year?

How many Braves players in their dozen playoff years batted .520 with an OBP of .667?! And 4 homers and 10 rbis in 8 games?! What planet were you on when that happened?"

I'm a Cubs fan, and TRUST ME, Manny Ramirez did not fold in the playoffs last season. Ugh.

i dont know what rosenthal is saying because at AT&T right field is the hardest place to hit the ball not left. if the giants get manny, he could hit 50 homeruns

This is for the white sox, i want opinions on who should be the guy at second base and what they expect from them. Lemme know. Thanks

Andrew Pasquini

50 homeruns is a little too much but he could still hit a good 30-35 in AT&T

the only big part of the yard is triples alley in right center which is 420 feet but most of his homers are to Left Field anyways

i agree with bleacher bum.
do you ever call damon bruce?
cause ive heard him say bleacher bum so im wondering if thats you. Has anyone heard about the giants stand with crede and if thats going anywhere

"This is for the white sox, i want opinions on who should be the guy at second base and what they expect from them. Lemme know. Thanks"

Posted by: ChiSox723

I think that they are planning to platoon Getz and Lillibridge at 2B and bat 9th..... so low expectations.

Lillibridge would be a good speed guy to come in to run late in close games for one of their many slow runners.


I really like everything I've seen and heard about Getz. From what I've heard, he's a scrappy, do whatever it takes kind of player (like Rowand at 2B). I'm always a fan of that kind of guy. I don't know much about Lillibridge, but he seems like a similar player to Getz with a little more speed.

Soooooo, my personal preference as a fan would be Getz, because I know more about him. However, once spring break hits we'll be able to get a better look at him.

I doubt very much that both of them make the team. We usually only tend to take one utility infielder and that is likely to go to someone like Betemit who can play any infield position. So, the infield is likely to look like this.

1B - Konerko
2B - Getz
3B - Fields
SS - Ramirez
BN - Betemit

AAA - Charlotte
Viciedo, Lillibridge, Nix, Allen.

Later,
Aaron

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