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Odds & Ends: Strasburg, Cabrera, Waivers

Links for Friday...


Comments

These hair/beard/jewelry policies nowadays are so ridiculous. We are in America, so why can't a guy look like he wants? I guess you are not allowed to exhibit class, if you like long hair, beards and diamonds. I don't see how a guy with a beard in anyway causes your organization to come off in a negative way. But you obviously can't be professional if you don't have your hair cut in a way that some random person decided was the right way to have it. It honestly is absurd. You are going to piss off Hanley Ramirez, the best offensive player in the league over the way he likes to wear his hair? Wow, no wonder nobody gives a crap about that organization. Pathetic.

I partially disagree. These players are being paid millions to be icons/role models to millions. Players should attempt to look presentable and not run around or play looking like homeless people. I don't have a problem with baggier uniforms or whether a player wants to play with a button unbuttoned or have a necklace or whatever, but when players start playing with hats that their team logo is unrecognizable or when their jerseys seem the size of mumu's, I think it can take away from the game.

If baseball has is truly becoming the business that everyone says it's becoming, the players should respect and acknowledge it.

Seriously though, I really liked that waivers article.

This is the problem though, the white man seemingly decides what is and isn't an acceptable way to dress/wear your hair. How does the fact that Hanley Ramirez has braided hair, in any way, shape, or form, dictate the type of role model he is? What, because a guy with brown skin likes to braid his hair he must be a thug or a gangster? What if they started forcing white guys in the league to wear their hair corn rowed? How would that be any different? It is okay for Larry Fitzgerald to have long hair down to his shoulders, and it is okay for hockey players to rock moronic looking mullets, but now black/brown guys can't wear corn rows? Absurd.

in the MLB**


You need to look clean-cut and professional. I'd maintain a strict hair/jewelry policy too. There's no way I'd let a male employee of mine go around with earrings in his ear. That's just trashy.

i have to dress a certain way at my job, to maintain professionalism. same thing can apply here, no biggie. if I make 8 million a year, i would cut my hair.

No, no, weren't you listening? It IS a race thing. Massa Beinfest and Massa Samson are trying to run a tight plantation by letting their multimillionaire whipping boy know who rules the roost.

Frankly, I find it loathsome and despicable that these white folks expect that their $70M in reparations should buy them the right to offer some input into how to market their brand. For shame!

Nrmax88, I completely agree. I do not have a problem with braided hair or *longer* hair, such that it is maintained. I think Manny's hair is ridiculous, but he is who he is.

I do think though that players need to realize they are on a team and that they should conform to some sort of professionalism. And my saying this, I am not directly talking about Hanley. I think he keeps himself fairly professional looking.

I believe the yankees are overly strict with the policy, but no one on the yankees complains loudly about it.

I'd have to say that these kind of policies are among the dumbest things I've ever heard.

I want players that are unique and play with style, not a bunch of clean cut guys that are told that they need to look that way.

The guys on the field are the ones that make the game go, and they oughta have the right to look however they damn well please, even if they're getting paid millions.

So long as their on field performance isn't affected, and their styles are appropriate for children (like, having a weed leaf shaved into your head, that might be inappropriate), they should be allowed to go wild.

It's like the idea is, "Hey, lets take the personality out of the game and make this as boring as possible!"

Lame as hell.

scribble - you don't want all little kids looking up to these guys.
" Johnny Damon looked like a complete bum when he was with the Red Sox. Randy Johnson looked like a greasy vagabond. Kevin Youkalis looks like a moron with that thing on his face."

I think it's fine...you can be individuals in other ways....Josh Hamilton and his tattoos. Though the Rangers won't let him show them.

To further show how stupid playing the race card is, they made Josh Johnson cut his hair as well.

Before (was even longer than this but only pic I can find):
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/02VF5Tbb0Jg8A/340x.jpg

"To further show how stupid playing the race card is, they made Josh Johnson cut his hair as well."

False, it only reinforces the racial undertones. The Marlins' front office hates Dominicans AND Anglo-Saxons. Time for a Title VII.

MNCubsFan,
just to clarify, Hamilton actually hides his tattoos himself. He's embarassed by them because he has said he got most of them while he was high. He tried to get them removed but the procedure was too painful...

It has nothing to do with race, whatsoever. The reason that the Marlins jumped on the "respectable looking" bandwagon is because they just got their stadium approved, they are being hit hard by the economic downturn, and they want to attract a different type of fan base.

While I think it is unreasonable to spring it on players when there has not been a rule previously, it has nothing at all to do with race. The fact that Han-Ram is the face of their franchise, and happens not to be white, is pure coincidence. The Marlins have a long track record of being cheap, and the biggest contracts they have given in recent years have been to "non-white guys".

The Yankess have had a long-standing appearance and morality contract, but the players know this before they sign there. No beards, no long hair, no earrings, no partying during the week, etc. They also self-elect a "King" (team Captain) who stays in that role until he is "de-throned". It is not a far-fetched idea, or even a new idea. And once again, it has nothing to do with race. It just wouldn't work in all markets, and it will never be adopted my most teams.

The biggest thing the Marlins did wrong was try to change to a new policy in Spring Training instead of right after the offseason, and not having a team meeting to say what the new policy is and why, to get out any frustartions before they could go public.

"Johnny Damon looked like a complete bum when he was with the Red Sox. Randy Johnson looked like a greasy vagabond. Kevin Youkalis looks like a moron with that thing on his face."

And they should have the right to look that way, if they please. And a lot of people would argue that those guys like good/badass. The women in Boston freaking loved Damon while he played there, and I'm guessing that Damon cares more about what masses of women think of his appearence, then some random blogging dude.

The idea of grown men being told how their hair needs to look is silly and pathetic to me.

And before someone childish decides to say that my comments are from a middle-class, Suburban, white-guy... I am of mixed-race.

Next thing you know, the MLB Union will be involved. I can see it now "Hair Gate" The case of Ramirez Vs. Marlins.

Don't like the job? Quit. They run the show, not the players.

Yeah, why don’t we just let everyone do anything they please and forget about all rules or images portrayed. I say open it up completely, individualism to the max! I want to see a player manning left field wearing a Flava-Flav clock around his neck in his right to ‘express’ himself as he chooses! Who will be the first to rip the sleeves off their jerseys ala Wild Thing?

The idea that certain grown men can not follow certain, reasonable, non-evasive rules (as long as they are with-in reason) without throwing a temper tantrum is foolish to me. (not directed towards Hanely Ramirez of course, but instead things from the past which have led up to this situation) If a company, much like every other company in the country, wants to portray itself to their clients in a consistent, respectable manor, then they are being the norm, not doing something out of line. An employee is lucky to have a job with said company to begin with, and if they decide they should not have to follow rules then they are the only ones who are out of line.

Besides, what is it going to take for players to realize that long hair (define, longer than shoulder length) probably isnt a good idea in baseball (or any sport) to begin with? Someone getting it caught in an outfield wall or another’s cleats in an on-field collision? Long hair, in any of the spots, is just foolish and ill advised from the very start. I once watched someone rip their nose open when they hit a basketball rim and it connected with one of the hooks. A braid or lock of hair getting caught is much more likely and a disaster for the game if it happens. I watch people getting tackled by their hair in football quite often really, how is that a good idea to express your individualism with?

Certain things, like longer than shoulder length hair and uniforms that are 4 sizes too big for you, are just illogical within the games themselves; presenting unnecessary dangers on top of the negative image they often portray to begin with. Want to be a rock star, become a rock star. Want to play a sport, then expect to have certain rules you would be smart to follow in the first place.

With the hair/jewelry rule, clearly the Marlins are looking to become the next Yankees by the time they become the Miami Marlins!

Well written post, SuzysMan.

Especially in the Marlin's culture where Han-Ram's salary for 2009 and 2010 is as much as their Opening Day payroll for this year. You want to be the 'Franchise', be a part of it, don't buck the system.

Strasburg is getting overhyped. He is going to be the number 1 pick, yes. He is also going to be an injury risk with his mechanics. and, there was a pitcher alot like him in College - Mark Prior. What happened there?

Strasburg's fastball did not overmatch the Cuban team as it stays pretty straight. His K/BB ratio will not be nearly as great in the pros as hitters are more disciplined. Still he's a risk worth taking.

Johnny Damon with his long hair was perfect for the Red Sox they pride themselves on being dirtbags, but look at the fans they are trying to draw beer swilling idiots that think that the Dropkick Murphys are the best band evah. I guess it all depends on what kind of fans you are trying to attract to your ballpark.
Posted by: dpare71 | March 27, 2009 at 01:48 PM


Right, because the Yankee fans are much classier because their team has a hair policy. That's the most idiotic thing I've ever heard.

**I only used Yankee fans as an example because of the well known policies the FO has for their players, that wasn't a dig.

I get the argument that the front offices run the show and they want to present the organization as clean and respectable.

I just think that they're making the game less interesting, by forcing players to conform. I want the players to be themselves and keep the game interesting. As long as they're playing great baseball, the length of their hair really shouldn't be any concern to the front office. It gives the players more personality anyways.

Obviously it's far from a big deal, and not worth making a scene about, but I just think it's rather unfortunate that teams feel the need to force ballplayers to cut their hair, when it has no effect on their on-field performance, which is really what gets fans to the park. Like really, do the Marlins think that by making Josh Johnson cut his hair, more fans will come to his starts?

"An employee is lucky to have a job with said company to begin with, and if they decide they should not have to follow rules then they are the only ones who are out of line."

Yeah, Hanley Ramirez is soooooo lucky to play for the Florida Marlins. Nobody else would ever take that guy on their team if the Florida Marlins didn't want him. Again, I have yet to see one person tell me how wearing your hair in a certain fashion makes you any more or less professional.


"Yeah, why don’t we just let everyone do anything they please and forget about all rules or images portrayed. I say open it up completely, individualism to the max! I want to see a player manning left field wearing a Flava-Flav clock around his neck in his right to ‘express’ himself as he chooses! Who will be the first to rip the sleeves off their jerseys ala Wild Thing?"

These things are ridiculous though. The first example is just absurd, adding a huge prop to yourself (hair is not a prop, it is already on your head, and it is your hair, you should be able to wear it how you please). The point was not that it was a racist act against Hanley Ramirez, it is just that these old white guys decide what the professional way to look is, based on what? You all just respond by saying that it is the owners team, they can do with it what they want, but again, if a black man owned a team, and decided that every player on his team had to have their hair braided, because it was his team, and he felt that this made them look the most professional, would that be okay with everybody? I doubt it. I just don't see where people get off saying if you like diamonds and you don't do your hair how I tell you to, then you are a thug and a bad influence on children. Get that shyt outa here. Brett Myers has a wonderful, cute little hair cut, and he beats his wife in public, so yeah.

I am amazed whenever I see ANYONE support this sort of policy.

When it gets worst is when people claim it has anything to do with 'professionalism'.

According to whom?

The teams that I think look stupid are the ones who still think the year is 1958. The Yankees pride themselves on their mystique, and it certainly exists, but that is a good thing, since watching them on the field you see no character whatsover. If it wasn't for the pinstripes they would be the blandest team in the league.

I'm not a Red Sox fan (Go Jays!), but when Johnny Damon was the face of the team, they sure seemed a lot more likeable than their obvious rivals.

Oh, I will also say that clumping hair and jewelry in the same argument is specious. While I don't think wearing jewelry is a problem either, at least if you have to take it off you can put it back on right after the game. You can't do that with these sorts of rigid hair guidelines.

I'd just like to second nrmax's entire post. Very good.

There's a huge difference between the team uniform, and forcing a guy to cut his hair because you've decided that he doesn't quite look professional enough. With the uniform on, he looks professional, regardless of his hair.

Is that the best you got? You are grasping. Old people are so funny. If you don't do things the way we did back in 1930, then you have no class, no professionalism, and you are a thug/menace to society! It is very amusing. If anything, a fan base of Miami citizens (the group of people the Marlins are trying to attract, also a heavy populated Latino area), would probably be more annoyed that their team is pissing their favorite/best player off over his hair style, then they would be happy that the organization is moving in a more professional direction.

Dpare and Suzysman both use wild examples to make their point. They involve destroying the uniform, carrying huge props, or other completely unrealistic scenario's. How does wearing your hair in a way you enjoy in any way impact the type of person you are. This is probably why people hate America so much in general. No tolerance, too much of this whole "if you are different from me you are a thug or bad example, my way is the only way to do things" idea. It is really sad that anything slightly different is conveyed as bad.

"Yeah the guys with the baggy shirts half untucked look real professional."

Yeah, guys shouldn't wear their uniforms in a way that is comfortable, because it should be more important to them to please some random middle aged white guy who has some weird idea of what it is to be professional, and thinks that everybody in the world should abide by it. To me, being professional is being good at your job, regardless of what you look like. Wearing your hair a certain way or wearing your uniform baggy doesn't make you any less "professional".

Having your hair cut in a way you enjoy is doing whatever the hell you want? It isn't like Hanley asked if he could have machine guns in the locker room. All he did was wear his hair the same as he always has, and then one day, after being on the team for multiple years, people come and tell him he has to cut it? How much they are being paid has nothing to do with it, because they provide a talent that basically nobody else in the world has, so they should be paid a lot of money. You get paid what you are paid based on what you are good at in life. Being good at something a lot of people consider important, and thus, being paid handsomely for it really has nothing to do with this. Besides, since when are baseball players CEO's? Everybody says just be happy you are playing a childrens game for a living, but if that is the case, how come everybody is worried about him looking so professional? Do you think the kids that like Hanley Ramirez care what kind of hair cut he has? Do you think that they will buy more jerseys if he looks more "professional"(again, I still have yet to have on person tell me why dressing the way these restrictions require you to dress makes you professional)?

The real question is, how come every sport is determined to try and take all the fun out of the game, worry about "professionalism", and make the game as bland as humanly possible? Sports are supposed to be fun and cool, not professional.

Guys chill out of a second...
It's just a rule.

Whether the players like the rule or not it doesn't matter. It will not cost any player anything to clean up their face and look. The FO is not asking for your first born child.
Individualism, be unique, make the game more fun, etc., how can you bring that up? They are being paid just like any other person in the country, to do their job and nothing else. They can do whatever they want off-field but while on-field they should abide by the rules. Period.

I'm sure all of you have been to college/university, and had jobs. Think of it this way, there are rules that you had to follow whether you liked them or not. Why can't owners have some of those rules too? Whether they are for professionalism or some other ulterior reason, they are still rules. No need to blow this matter out of proportion.

Well, I agree that we are not going to see eye to eye, though I don't consider it a waste of time, just a good debate. Anyway, yes, the fact you grew up in a military family obviously is probably a big reason why you are on your side and the fact that I grew up in the 90's and live in New York, surrounded by bearded people, corn rowed people, black, white, Latino, Asian people, with all different kinds of hair, jewelry, clothes, etc, is the reason I believe what I do. The thing is though, to me, the Military is meant for discipline, and it is paramount that you pay close attention to every single detail, and I just don't see how that correlates into baseball, and how guys should dress. It is not that I am against every rule, I just don't believe that somebody should have a right to tell you how to wear your hair, if it is not affecting your job performance. I don't think players should have family in the clubhouse, I believe in being on time, heck, even curfew is fair, but I just don't see why a guy can't wear his hair the way he chooses, if it isn't hurting anybody.

nrmax88,

I live in NYC too and I know what you mean and I agree with you to some extent. But look at it this way. The players are not regular people you see onthe streets. Heck, go to Wall St. and you will probably not see people wearing durags or anything like that. That's because what theydo require a image, not personality.

Let me clarify something, I could careless about you hair as long as it's not a distraction.

Also, how would you feel about players wearing durags and stuff a la ghetto?

Rules are rules and have to be obeyed is all he was trying to say nrmax88. We all have them, companies have them.

When some of us 'old people" grew up we learned to respect them and follow them and maybe now that certain factions of society have began challenging them and tearing down certain walls that we grew up admiring, then things have changed for some, but some of us always learned to respect authority.


“Like really, do the Marlins think that by making Josh Johnson cut his hair, more fans will come to his starts?”

Of course not, but I can’t imagine that was ever their intent to begin with. Realistically, there is a possibility they are experiencing a slight behavioral problem in the minors with a player or two, and just want to ensure that the organization as a whole has their standards in place, and enforced evenly, to try and maintain control. Unfortunately, defiance and behavioral issues are difficult to control if complete freedom is given, and bigger issues can develop from there.

Take Manny for instance. If Boston (and honestly Cleveland before that, they had major behavioral issues in the mid-90s as well) had been firmer with their expectations and attempted to present a more professional environment, would he have become the problem he eventually did? Manny’s “I do as I please” mentality is a black eye to the game, and only enables future similar situations to take place. Having boundaries in place before issues get out of hand is the correct thing to do, and is a very minor and easy step to take.

I like individualism just as much as the next person, but unfortunately certain things need to be regulated to keep the bigger issues in tact. And honestly, they should be done anyway. Like I said previously, hair and clothing can be a danger. Excessive jewelry can be an unfair advantage for pitchers, or possibly create a hazard on the field. Eliminating dangers and creating boundaries in an attempt to keep control and present the organization in commonly accepted positive light – where is the problem? The only possible problem would be one or two people that feel they should be able to do anything they please; showing themselves to be the bigger problems when you think about it. Can, and maybe should, things change? Maybe; and if Hanley Ramirez thinks it is time that his hair is accepted as the normal then maybe he should refuse to comply with the rules and walk away from the game in protest of the rule. He has the opportunity to take a stand, prove a point and go down in history attempting to bring about change. But he agreed to comply rather quickly, so maybe there is more to the rule then we think or it isnt as big of a deal as a few whinny people want to try and make it out to be.

Nrmax88,

Your ‘racism’ and ‘old person’ arguments are reaching pretty far to begin with. As stated numerous times, everyone is affected by the rules, and a ‘white’ (as you like to refer to them as) has had to conform as much as any minority. Leaving the racism argument you attempted to play with no ground to stand on. The ‘old person’ argument is also illogical, as you have no clue as to anyones age that is in support of such boundaries being in place.

That leaves only an argument based on ‘people should be able to do as they please’, but I cant believe you honestly feel that way. If David Wright showed up to camp with a ZZ-Top beard and hair down to his rear, you would applaud his individualism and say he should be able to wear his hair as he pleases? Is that the way you would want the face of your franchise to present himself? Or do you think maybe a little bit of realistic boundaries could be in place to ensure things don’t get too out of hand? But that leaves us with what is ‘realistic boundaries’ – your feelings of what people should do, or the commonly accepted ones that 99% of the population abides by? Maybe you want the commonly accepted definition to be ‘do as you please with your body’, but that is unrealistic and fighting against it is illogical.

Now, you say I pointed to props and extremes, but if you did not allow such extreme possibilities, then you are setting boundaries yourself not unlike those the Marlins are setting, leading us into that ‘your definition of professionalism’ verses “these old white guys decide what the professional way to look is” argument. Considering the popular acceptance of the word professionalism is the one being used as a guideline for the Marlins policy, then they seem to be doing nothing more than the normal. If you want to fight against what a professional appearance really should be considered, whining that a baseball player can’t do anything he pleases isn’t the way to go about it. It can be dangerous, it’s distracting in situations, being able to do as you please is merely a luxury almost no one in the world is able to enjoy, and in almost no other profession would it be acceptable. But baseball players should somehow have no boundaries in place and not be expected to follow a team’s request that the common-practice definition be abided by?

And really, why stop at appearance anyway? Why are you not fighting against what is considered ‘behavioral issues’ as well? Why not jump on clubs having curfews (which you claim you actually agree with) and no-alcohol policies? Why are you not fighting against teams baring families and entourages into the clubhouses? Maybe teams should not have times in which they expect their players to be at the field for practice or team meetings. All of these things infringe on a players right to express themselves in any way they choose, and all of these rules in place are nothing more than the normal expectation of ‘professionalism’ versus the ‘I should be able to do as I please’ mentality. Why is it only how a person wears their hair that you have an issue with? Go fighting against all the other common accepted definitions of professionalism as well, all of them can be twisted into ‘racism’ or ‘old white men deciding what professional is’ or whatever you want to claim. I might drink 24/7 and think I shouldn’t be forced to be places at certain times and that is professional to me – will you fight for my rights too? You seem to be picking and choosing that which you support, limiting your stance to what you feel and unfortunately you do not set the standard accepted beliefs in the world.

"Nrmax88,

Your ‘racism’ and ‘old person’ arguments are reaching pretty far to begin with. As stated numerous times, everyone is affected by the rules, and a ‘white’ (as you like to refer to them as) has had to conform as much as any minority. Leaving the racism argument you attempted to play with no ground to stand on. The ‘old person’ argument is also illogical, as you have no clue as to anyones age that is in support of such boundaries being in place."

Since you obviously couldn't even do me the justice of reading my post in its entirety (or if you did, you lack in reading comprehension), I am not going to read yours either. All I have to say is I already clearly said I am not saying this is any bigoted act of hatred against Hanley Ramirez, just that it is funny that these white men have this crazy idea of what it means to be professional. Being on time makes sense as a rule. You hurt the team if you are not on time. Constantly consuming alcohol can have a negative effect on your team also. Breaking curfew as well. I have yet to see one person (still, even though I asked about 4 times) tell me how Hanley Ramirez having braided hair makes him less professional, makes him a bad role model, or effects his play. Any other example that anybody brings up includes having a negative effect on your team, and therefore your employer. Wearing your hair in a way you enjoy, and wearing a necklace or easing does not effect your game, and thus, there should not be a rule against it.

And once again, I will bring this up again, since none of you "professionals" seem to have an answer. Since you all seem to be of the idea that, "hey, it is their team, they own it, they can do with it what they want", then would it be okay if a black man bought a baseball team, and made a rule where instead of being cleanly shaved and having a nice, short haircut, everybody had to wear their hair braided, because this owner felt like this made the team look more professional, and hey, it is his team, he can do with it as he pleases. This is literally the same thing as some guy saying that his idea of professionalism is having guys with no facial hair and short hair cuts. Why is one guy any more entitled to his opinion then the other?

Okay, I lied, and I did read your post. By the way, I am pretty sure all of the men coming up with these hair and facial hair rules are middle aged to old white guys, since these are generally the men who own these teams. It isn't that hard to comprehend. So please don't get your panties all in a bunch assuming I am talking about everybody in here. I brought up you specifically only because of an example (a very extreme example) that you personally used. Once again, David Wright coming into camp with a beard down to his "rear" would probably effect his on the field play. If it didn't I couldn't care less if he looked like the Geico caveman. These guys get paid to play baseball, who cares what they look like, seriously.

You all keep acting as if I condone baseball players doing "whatever they want". I don't see how wearing your hair the way you like it is exactly "anything they want". I am not saying baseball players should be able to run amok, carrying weapons wreaking havoc, I am merely suggesting that they get to wear the hair attached to their head in a fashion that makes them comfortable, so long as it doesn't negatively impact what their employer pays them to do, which in Hanley Ramirez's case, it clearly doesn't. You all keep arguing this point, which I never even came close to trying to make, so you are really wasting everybody's time, ranting on about how doing whatever you like can be dangerous, since nobody ever suggested anything of the sort.


"And really, why stop at appearance anyway? Why are you not fighting against what is considered ‘behavioral issues’ as well? Why not jump on clubs having curfews (which you claim you actually agree with) and no-alcohol policies? Why are you not fighting against teams baring families and entourages into the clubhouses? Maybe teams should not have times in which they expect their players to be at the field for practice or team meetings. All of these things infringe on a players right to express themselves in any way they choose, and all of these rules in place are nothing more than the normal expectation of ‘professionalism’ versus the ‘I should be able to do as I please’ mentality."

Wrong, again. Yawn. Once again, every single example you used in the above paragraph involves an act that could hurt the team one is employed by. Staying out late, drinking too much, having family/friends in the clubhouse, all of these things can have negative impacts on a team. Yes still, nobody has given me anything even resembling an example of how a baseball player can hurt his team by braiding his hair.

"You seem to be picking and choosing that which you support, limiting your stance to what you feel and unfortunately you do not set the standard accepted beliefs in the world."

And again, that is the problem. So many people, you obvious included, have this idea (God knows where it came from) of what people should wear, how people should act, how people should talk, etc. Unfortunately for you pal, you also do not set the standard accepted beliefs in the world. And accepted by who? Who just decided that wearing braids and diamond earrings is not proper?

nrmax88,

Look up Donald Watkins. He was trying to buy the Expos, and then Twins and Angels. The purchases fell through after one of his business associates got arrested for fraud and ruined his company assets.

He is a middle aged 'Black Man', and if you read his ointerviews on how he would run a baseball team, the first things he said is 'You have to run it like a business'. In his excerpts from the proposal to buy Montreal and move it to D.C. earlier in the decade, he himself cited the Yankees as how a baseball operation should be run.

The Yankees have the strictest dress and morality code of all 30 teams.

He is the anti-typical baseball owner you keep describing, yet he wanted to instill policies that you seem to think do not fir in Professional Sports.

He wears his hair short, has a mustache, and wears a suit every day. It is not just "middle-aged white guys in Corporate America" that think your appearance reflects Professionalism.

Again, does having braided hair negatively impact business? Anybody would be a fool to say the Yankees don't run their business well, they print their own money. That is the Yankees though. And just because they run a business that makes tons of money doesn't mean every move they make is right, i.e., forcing guys to shave their beards/cut their hair. Just because one black guy agrees with the way the Yankees run their business doesn't mean that I have to agree that your hair cut makes you a professional or a better role model. And yes, he did say that that is the way baseball operations should be run. I doubt he said that anybody who didn't dress in a particular fashion is not a professional. You aren't going to change my mind. Forcing guys to wear their hair a certain way on a baseball diamond is completely idiotic. I would be annoyed if I were a Marlin fan that my team is pissing off the one good player we have ever locked up in franchise history, to the point where he is demanding trades and wearing tee-shirts showing his dislike.

This whole arguement reminds me of when Nick Swisher grew his hair out to donate it to cancer victims. Unrealist idea warning...teams should let players grow their hair out only if they do a similar thing to what swisher did. I just thought i'd through a positive thought into this little cat fight. Who really cares if a guy making millions of dollars has to cut his hair?

man if anybody needs to cut his hair it's Magglio Ordonez..talk about gross, looks like he takes a big ball of grease and rubs it through his hair before every game

for cub fans who might be curios,cubs stats so far this spring
CHICAGO CUBS INDIVIDUAL BATTING
-------------------------------

PLAYER AVG G AB R H TB 2B 3B HR RBI
------ --- - -- - - -- -- -- -- ---

C Gaudin 1.000 6 1 0 1 2 1 0 0 0
C Zambrano .667 4 6 3 4 9 2 0 1 4
N Spears .600 4 10 4 6 8 0 1 0 3
J Mota .500 1 2 1 1 2 1 0 0 2
J Adduci .500 4 6 2 3 3 0 0 0 2
M Bradley .483 12 29 6 14 27 4 0 3 6
R Theriot .404 18 47 11 19 24 3 1 0 7
G Soto .400 6 10 4 4 5 1 0 0 2
K Hill .385 13 39 7 15 21 3 0 1 6
T Wright .375 4 8 1 3 5 2 0 0 2
P Bako .367 13 30 4 11 16 2 0 1 5
J Fox .364 21 55 13 20 37 5 0 4 16
M Fontenot .362 19 58 12 21 38 4 2 3 11
B Scales .350 21 40 9 14 19 5 0 0 11
W Castillo .333 9 9 5 3 9 0 0 2 5
R Dempster .333 5 3 0 1 1 0 0 0 0
R Johnson .328 20 58 8 19 29 3 2 1 11
A Soriano .320 19 50 6 16 31 3 0 4 12
A Blanco .311 23 45 7 14 18 1 0 1 8
M Hoffpauir .309 24 68 13 21 40 5 1 4 18
A Ramirez .289 16 38 4 11 19 2 0 2 6
B Snyder .286 14 21 7 6 14 0 1 2 8
A Miles .283 15 46 6 13 15 2 0 0 6
J Gathright .275 16 40 12 11 11 0 0 0 2
S Fuld .269 16 26 8 7 14 1 0 2 3
S Taguchi .250 24 36 8 9 13 2 1 0 10
D Lee .244 14 41 4 10 15 2 0 1 5
D Deeds .243 15 37 7 9 14 3 1 0 5
E German .235 12 17 4 4 4 0 0 0 1
J Dubois .235 12 17 2 4 5 1 0 0 0
M Johnson .235 13 17 2 4 5 1 0 0 0
L Rivas .231 15 26 2 6 6 0 0 0 1
C Koskie .200 3 5 1 1 2 1 0 0 0
C Fox .200 10 5 0 1 1 0 0 0 0
D Barney .188 11 16 2 3 3 0 0 0 1
R Robnett .158 10 19 2 3 5 2 0 0 4
A Guzman .000 7 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
K Kadokura .000 6 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
R Chirinos .000 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
R Roquet .000 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
J Stevens .000 7 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
K Gregg .000 9 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
E Caridad .000 6 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
J Ascanio .000 6 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
N Samson .000 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
M Atkins .000 6 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
L Vizcaino .000 8 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
J Sellers .000 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
K Hart .000 9 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
R Wells .000 8 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
J Samardzija .000 6 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
C Robinson .000 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
C Marmol .000 7 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
M Mateo .000 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
J Waddell .000 9 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
N Cotts .000 9 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
M Freed .000 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
D Patton .000 9 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
N Perez .000 1 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
M Stanton .000 9 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
S Marshall .000 7 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
S Clevenger .000 5 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
T Campana .000 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
D Johnston .000 2 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
B Guyer .000 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 1
A Cashner .000 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
M Camp .000 3 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
J Mathes .000 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
J Rosa .000 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
R Harden .000 2 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
J Berg .000 6 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
E Campusano .000 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
B Schlitter .000 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
A Heilman .000 7 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

Nrmax88,

I would like to first know what your real argument is anyway. Is it long hair, or “black/brown guys can't wear corn rows”? Because if it is solely Ramirez being able to have his hair braided while on the field, I can only ask why that is so illogically important to you? If it is regarding the length of his hair, then there is absolutely no reason what so ever to ever mention race, as you have now done multiple times in each and every post you have given. Either you are proving yourself the most racist person I have met with your constantly attempting to imply that card in situations here where it does not fit what so ever (since all players, minority or not, are affected by the length of hair rule), or you are arguing a players right to wear his hair in a certain style solely while on the field where it is covered anyway. No where does it say the player is restricted from doing so in his free time after all, so which is it you are taking issue with? And similarly, if Ramirez was not on the team, and only Johnson was affected by this rule, would you have ever said a word? It doesn’t seem like you would have considering the “guy with brown skin who likes to braid his hair” is the only person you keep mentioning as being affected here.

Now,
“just that it is funny that these white men have this crazy idea of what it means to be professional”
It’s not “these white guys” as you do not know the color of the skin of the posters, supporters or even the ones who started the process of having the rules put into place within the Marlins organization. For all you know, a “black/brown man” was the one who first proposed the rule. And if your argument is solely against what is common-practice acceptance within the world, claiming it is “these white guys” idea of professionalism is off-base as well as you are generalizing and segregating peoples preferences without any individual input given. Can you find “black/brown men” who think long hair is professional? Sure, I bet you can. Can you find “white guys” that feel that way? You betcha! And the opposite can be said of both camps just the same. Yet you separate it out for what reason? Again, just trying to force racism where it isn’t evident it seems.

You go on to tell us the ways that a person hurts his team, and try to justify the reason why rules are needed in certain situations but not with regard to appearance. May I ask, considering Alcohol is one of your points here, how exactly did Babe Ruth hurt his team? Being late, breaking curfew and all other things you can think of are things that many players with a huge positive affect on the team can sometimes be guilty of doing on a fairly regular basis, yet you are going to generalize and say it can be a negative so those are acceptable as being hard rules? You are being selective in your fight against the “accepted professionalism” - the very thing you seem to be complaining about yourself.

Last,
“then would it be okay if a black man bought a baseball team, and made a rule where instead of being cleanly shaved and having a nice, short haircut, everybody had to wear their hair braided, because this owner felt like this made the team look more professional, and hey, it is his team, he can do with it as he pleases.”

You are arguing against a company accepting the common place, nation wide accepted ‘professional appearance’ and pointing to an extreme rule you randomly made up where bizarre and illogical rules would be forced on people as if the two have anything in common. Can I force my company to start making their employees wear their shoes on their hands because I personally think it’s more professional? Didn’t think so... So until the common place ‘acceptable professional appearance” changes, you have to stop trying to use this illogical argument. It just does not make since as a counterpoint.

Oh, and that is a reply to the first post you gave, but I think it pretty much covers everything you attempted to say in the second as well, so its enough… I will reply to this specifically though:

“And accepted by who? Who just decided that wearing braids and diamond earrings is not proper?”

Again, almost all of the country – and more. Businesses have dress codes. Almost all of them are the same, and the Marlins new dress code is extremely similar to it. Don’t like it? Oh well, you are fighting basically all of the companies in the country there. Complaining because it is effecting one baseball player of dark skin (but not saying anything about it affecting the white player) while telling us that you too selectively decide things you feel are professional or not. Well, seems you are worse off them the thing you are arguing is somehow some major offense.

PS, why are you not complaining about players being forced to wear a sports coat and slacks when exciting the stadiums after the game? What if people of “black/brown” skin don’t want to wear a sports coat because they don’t like it? This is something that each team abides by as far as I know though, and definitely would not affect the team in any way at all. Why is this not included in your complaints about “the white man” forcing his beliefs on everyone or whatever.

PPS, my apologies, did not see there was a second page until after posting. Ironic that it wasn’t a white man who wanted the rule.

Each team is a private business in its own right. The owners have the right to or not to have a policy on the way their employee's look, dress or act. All players are required to wear uniforms, right? Maybe mcdonalds might not care what you look like, but in business or in any private business, we have the right to demand a certain level of professionalism.

Ha, Suzysman still can't bring up an example that isn't completely extreme. First he brings up guys wearing enormous props, then he brings up David Wright growing his hair down to his ankles, then he starts bringing up players from, the early 1900's, still, without ever addressing or answering any of the questions I asked. What a surprise. Debate the parts that you have answers to, ignore what you can't debate. Suzy, so would it be okay with you if I owned a team, and I made it policy for everybody to have gold caps put on their teeth and braids in their hair, because I thought it looked more professional?

And I keep bringing up race because everywhere you look, whether it is on this blog, sports radio shows, the site where the original piece was written, you have absurd comments with people saying things like..... "good, he should cut his hair, he looks like a wannabe pimp", or "so what if he has to cut his hair, baseball is not meant for gangsters", etc. Why is it that if a person of color wears their hair a certain way they are a thug? And if this isn't the case, and there is nothing wrong with braided hair, and it doesn't make you look like a thug, then why make a rule against it? And I never said there should be a rule for alcohol, or a curfew, etc. I just said I could understand why there would be. These things could possibly impact a team, they may not, but it is feasible that they could. The way a person wears their hair could never possibly have any effect on the way a team performs (waiting for you to come up with something else extreme, like how a fan could grab a players long hair going for a foul ball and cost them a world series, since everything else you post involves something extreme and completely unrealistic). If a rule is solely to help a team, or to prevent players from impacting a team in a negative manner, whether I agree or disagree with the rule itself, I can understand why it is there. I have still (again, despite asking about 6 times by now) heard one of you give me any reason at all how A) long/braided hair isn't professional, and B)how it could ever possibly negatively effect a team or a game. I am not holding my breath though, since you already replied to about 5 of my posts and each time you evade and sidestep the questions I bring up.

And I keep bringing up race because everywhere you look, whether it is on this blog, sports radio shows, the site where the original piece was written, you have absurd comments with people saying things like..... "good, he should cut his hair, he looks like a wannabe pimp", or "so what if he has to cut his hair, baseball is not meant for gangsters", etc. Why is it that if a person of color wears their hair a certain way they are a thug? And if this isn't the case, and there is nothing wrong with braided hair, and it doesn't make you look like a thug, then why make a rule against it? And I never said there should be a rule for alcohol, or a curfew, etc. I just said I could understand why there would be. These things could possibly impact a team, they may not, but it is feasible that they could. The way a person wears their hair could never possibly have any effect on the way a team performs (waiting for you to come up with something else extreme, like how a fan could grab a players long hair going for a foul ball and cost them a world series, since everything else you post involves something extreme and completely unrealistic). If a rule is solely to help a team, or to prevent players from impacting a team in a negative manner, whether I agree or disagree with the rule itself, I can understand why it is there. I have still (again, despite asking about 6 times by now) heard one of you give me any reason at all how A) long/braided hair isn't professional, and B)how it could ever possibly negatively effect a team or a game. I am not holding my breath though, since you already replied to about 5 of my posts and each time you evade and sidestep the questions I bring up.

"You are arguing against a company accepting the common place, nation wide accepted ‘professional appearance’ and pointing to an extreme rule you randomly made up where bizarre and illogical rules would be forced on people as if the two have anything in common. Can I force my company to start making their employees wear their shoes on their hands because I personally think it’s more professional? Didn’t think so... So until the common place ‘acceptable professional appearance” changes, you have to stop trying to use this illogical argument. It just does not make since as a counterpoint. "

You are such a joke. Wearing your hands in shoes is completely absurd, braiding your hair is very, very common, whether you accept it as common or whether you accept it as professional or not. I don't know anybody who wears shoes on their hands. The idea that a baseball player has to cut their hair to be more professional is simply ridiculous, and I feel bad that you can't understand this. If an owner forced their players to completely shave their heads or, or to never cut their hair, this wouldn't be any different then anything the Marlins or other teams are doing with their own policy, it doesn't change just because you accept it as common "professionalism".

Nrmax88,

The problem is that you have not posed a single, solid question. You brought race into a situation where it doesn’t belong (stating that because there are racist people in the world, you think you have to turn everything into a racist conversation). You yourself have taken the racist side of the debate you are attempting to wage however, solely complaining about the “guy with brown skin who likes to braid his hair” who now cant wear braids under his hat when he is on the field, but ignore the “white man” who has been affected as much, if not more, then Ramirez. You also show your racism complaining about the “old white man” who wanted this rule in place on the Marlins, despite the fact that it is a middle age man with dark skin that actually did so. You then attempt to try and give absurd comparisons like a black man buying a team and forcing all his players to adopt styles which are a rather done by a rather extreme minority of the population and put it up against the most recognized and commonly accepted professional appearance definition, much like comparing apples to super rare plants that only grow in a 12 foot radius of some third world company. You claim I am pointing to extremes, ignoring the fact you are doing it yourself though. What you propose is just as extreme in the eyes of the mass majority of the world, and 100% your personal idea as to what would be an acceptable professional appearance; not unlike if I was to ask employees to wear their shoes on their hands.

But it just doesn’t seem you really know what you are arguing against anyway, because you are either arguing against Ramirez being able to have long hair (which everyone is affected by) or his ability to wear his hair a certain way solely while in the process of doing a job his employer is paying him to do (while he is able to wear it in that style while not at work without issue). Then, I propose this question to you (which you have ignored previously) – why are you not fighting against all the rules which infringe on a players (or anyone’s) being able to do whatever they want? Why are you not fighting against players using alcohol or having a curfew, or having their entourage in the clubhouse? You claim those ‘could’ affect their ability to perform their job – but they ‘could not’ affect their job as well, so why are you limiting everyone’s freedom just because it may or may not be an issue? But ok, if you don’t want to address that, how about you address the dress code. Why is it that players must wear sports coats and slacks when leaving the field, but this is not in your attack? It does not affect on field play. Or how about players being forced to maintain themselves in a proper way? I know for a fact that there has to be rules within each organization that states a player must keep his teeth brushed, nose hair trimmed, fingernails clean and many other minute personal care issues. Why are you not fighting against all these things as well? What if a player doesn’t want to brush his teeth, trim his nose hair or fingernails? That fact that you almost certainly agree that these things are acceptable to be able to expect from a companies employees shows that you are just as selective in what you deem acceptable professional appearance as anyone else, the difference is that you are simultaneously showing a hypocritical approach with your fighting for the extreme majority to control what is acceptable in the world.

So why are you not fighting for all forms of a persons individual professional appearance rights? Why is it one “guy with brown skin who likes to braid his hair” that you feel so compelled to protect with the racist attitude you have displayed, while ignoring everyone else who could be affected by rules they don’t agree with across all jobs within the sport, and honestly out as well. Why are you not out picketing Hooters until they allow bald women to be Hooters Girls as well? Why are you not arguing for the person that doesn’t want to brush their teeth to be able to work the register at the local Sizzler? The only thing you are doing here is singling out a small portion of the commonly accepted personal appearance standard and telling us that it affects a small portion of the population while ignoring everyone else affected in a countless number of ways (including the same way you are complaining affects the “guy with brown skin who likes to braid his hair”, but you discriminate and ignore the others affected).

The only thing I can really say to you at the end of the day is this – sorry you don’t like the commonly accepted professional appearance standards, but you cant pick and choose those you do think should be enforced, cant pick and choose to defend a small portion of those that are affected by them and if you want to change the majority of the business worlds beliefs then complaining solely that one “black/brown skin” guy that wants to wear braids is asked not to on a baseball message board is the most illogical way of going about doing it. Really, don’t like the commonly accepted personal appearance standard, go to a country that has no rules for their employees to follow.

The most ironic part of this entire thing though most likely comes in the fact that I myself am not yet 30 with hair past my shoulders and a full beard who is married to a minority. For all we know you are a business exec who wears a suit and tie daily with freshly trimmed hair each week and a bi-weekly manicure that just, for some strange reason, feels that he should yell and scream racism anytime a minority is affected by anything what so ever solely because racism does exist in an ever decreasingly amount of people in the world. The fact that you are fighting perceived racism with racism and selecting picking and choosing stances really does show the strength of your stance though, I must say that.

“Ha, Suzysman still can't bring up an example that isn't completely extreme. First he brings up guys wearing enormous props, then he brings up David Wright growing his hair down to his ankles, then he starts bringing up players from, the early 1900's, still, without ever addressing or answering any of the questions I asked. What a surprise. Debate the parts that you have answers to, ignore what you can't debate. Suzy, so would it be okay with you if I owned a team, and I made it policy for everybody to have gold caps put on their teeth and braids in their hair, because I thought it looked more professional?”

I will respond to this individually (again) though. I did address (multiple times) your randomly construed, uncommon, and fairly extreme individual preference of what the commonly accepted professional appearance standard should include (in your eyes) by pointing to my own extremes which would have to be included within what you are fighting for if you are not to show the selective stance you are displaying now. If you want to dismiss the commonly accepted professional appearance standard as being a bunch of “old white men telling us what is right”, then you have to dismiss it completely – you can not pick and choose what you want to include. That means that everything, no matter how extreme it may seem to you, has to be allowed within your argument. You instead are calling out my extremes as being unrealistic and pointing to your own extremes that are a personal preference just the same, shared by only a small portion of the populace (with regard to it being acceptable ‘professional appearance’) That is about the weakest stance you can ever provide. To top it off, you are arguing solely on the basis that one person of dark skin should be able to wear it like that under a hat while performing his job; ignoring the fact he can do it in his own time, which is where he would be able to enjoy it anyway and ignoring everyone else who is affected by the same rules which were installed. Even going as far as to scream racism multiple times, doing nothing more than showing the racism on your part – and your part alone. Those things instantly show the hole in your argument and how poorly you thought out the fight you want to participate in. You want to call me a joke, oblivious to the fact that you are the only one proving yourself to be just that.

For the record (if anyone is keeping score at home about it being a 'White Man' rule):

Cuban-Born Manager Fredi Gonzalez instilled the rule on the Marlins entire team, including clubhouse personnel.

"We want to look professional," Gonzalez told the Sun-Sentinel. "Nice and neat."

No sympathy for Orlando Cabrera here, when you sleep with your teamates wives (Mrs. Foulke) you deserve the scumbag reputation you earned!

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