Odds & Ends: Indians, Pirates, Zambrano

take everything Phil Rogers says with a grain of salt... or a pound. He's one of those self-loathing Cubs fans that thinks the world's imploding once a week. Zambrano's got his ups and downs, and because of his personality the downs are... entertaining, let's say, but when he's on he's got stuff as good as anybody in baseball. Good luck replacing him for anything less than 22 million a year in this market.

The Mets will gladly take Big Z off your hands!
And, if Dye and Teahen are in fact available, we should really look hard at them too.
Dye is the only rental I would be interested in as a Fan, as he wouldnt cost too much.
Guys like Holliday, Johnson, Bedard... command too much to be worth a trade for 1/2 a season, each of them have had issues, be it under performance or injuries.

Hey I don't blame that Phil Rogers guy because if I were a Cub fan I would be fed up with the guy too. But thats the problem he stated his point as a fan instead of as a researcher/journalist. I mean the Cubs arent going to move Zambrano anytime soon. But to be honest if I were Hendry I would seriously think about moving him because frankly the guys just not a good clubhouse guy and he's paid like a top 10 pitcher when really he isn't. He's only adveraged 14 wins a season and his high is only 18. Not to mention that he's just a total ass and throws tempertantrums like a 5 year old kid in a candy store with no money. Bottom line is the Cubs aren't going to deal Zambrano but bottom line is it wouldn't be a bad idea to try to. And to be honest I think Hendry is more of a players manager and as they say. U show me a GM liked by all his players and I'll show you a loser. Just look at some of the dumb stuff we've done lately. 1- signing a 30 year old LF power hitter that can't hit in the 3 hole to a 8 year deal. Try to get Peavy when his main target shouldv'e been a left handed hitting OF with some popp. He wasted time and missed out on Ibanez and had to settle for Bradley who by the way has 16 rbi. Traded Mark Derosa and Marquis who are just having superb seasons this year. You can't help but wonder when will Hendry start to be seated on the hott seat because in my opinion he shouldv'e been there after 06 and definatly after last year. But still we don't hear his name in being in danger of his job but i think that will definatly change once the team is sold

“Phil Rogers at the Chicago Tribune is fed up with Carlos Zambrano and thinks the Cubs should waive him and take anything another club is willing to give”

Although it would be nice to get out from under the contract, NO! We are still the favorites in the division, and you have to imagine at least some of our hitters will begin producing before long. Such a move wouldn’t fit with our win now mindstate. And where he can be a head case, he isnt a detriment. We can win with Zambrano, and he should not be going anywhere.

Bradley on the other hand though…

Hey Sabes, get Dye. Excellent clean up power right there. And keep Sheirholtz playing. Dump Lewis and Winn, and try going after a corner infeilder. I like what Boche has been doing lately with the lineups and the position swaps. I can live without seeing Ishi-crapa playing again. I say give Bowker another chance at first. He's tearing it up in AAA. First base is callin his name. Chech this out.....

Rowand
Sheirholtz
Sandoval
Dye
Molina
Bowker
Renteria
Downs
*Pitcher*

Theres definatlly room for improvement, but it starting to look brighter at the end of the tunnel for the Giants. I havn't been this excited for the last 4 seasons. These next few seasons are gonna be fun to watch.

The Cubs shouldn't get rid of Zambrano, at least not this year, because we don't have anybody available to replace him and likely won't get one as return for a trade. With the mediocre play of the entire division, I'm not willing to write off the Cubs' year yet.

That said, I'm not sure "ace" is the right word for Zambrano unless we're simply defining it as "best pitcher on the staff" (and hell, even then the rights would go to Randy Wells so far this year). On any given night, Zambrano could have no-hit stuff--but he has no control, either of his pitches or his emotions. Today's Cubs-Sox game was a perfect example of it; he threw that pitch that was ruled a wild pitch (I think it was pitch-out that Soto didn't get because of the squeeze, but meh) and what happens? He hits the next batter. It's not intentional; it's Zambrano. I think he's too wild to be an ace. Too inconsistent.

I don't know what the solution is. Probably just stand pat and hope things get better this year and next and for the duration of his contract.

Phil Rogers is an idiot. The Cubs didn't lose today because of Carlos Zambrano, they lost because they scored ZERO runs. You can't win baseball games if you don't score any runs.

If you want to try and pull the plug on some bad money they should be looking at dumping some position players. Hendry gave Soriano an 8 year $136MM deal two and a half years ago and now they are stuck with a primadona who doesn't want to move down to a more logical spot in the order, who is a terrible defensive player who actually seems to have gotten worse in the field, is currently hitting .236 with 14 home runs and just 32 RBI's. Someone remind me again who Hendry was bidding against in that deal? Probably just himself like usual.

OR

Perhaps they should pull the plug on Kosuke Fukodome who still has over $30MM owed to him over the course of the next two and a half seasons.

OR

Perhaps they should pull the plug on Milton Bradley before his $12MM 2011 option vests with 17 or 18 more games played this season. Signing him to 2 years $20MM (3 years $30MM depending on how you look at it) was just stupid, particularly for a National League team. That signing looked even worse after the bottom fell out of the market and a superior player like Bobby Abreu ends up going to the Angels for 1 year and $5MM. For 2 years and $20MM they could have had Adam Dunn instead of Bradley, which is going to be at least a minimum of $2MM less than the Bradley deal IF the Cubs are able to buyout the final year.

Aside from bad contracts Hendry has made a litany of other poor decisions as well, none more glaring this season than misshandling their backup 3rd base options. They wasted money on deadbeats Joey Gathright and Aaron Miles and dumped Mark DeRosa. Sure you have to figure that you have a couple guys who you can throw over to 3rd for one or two 15 day DL stints for Ramirez to go along with a handful of days off for other little injuries but Hendry gambled too much by not having a good backup plan in the event something significant happened to Ramirez.

There are plenty of things wrong with the Cubs. Zambrano's contract is pretty far down the list.

Whats scary about Soriano is its only year 3 of his contract and it seems like he is steadily getting worse in every offensive category

Not only that but Wisc is right....he has gotten worse in the outfield as well.

At this point it seems like Soriano was after the pay day before the Cubs and will now just coast until this contract is over. Its a shame too, a player with that talent shouldn't be wasting it away like he is.

Others have said it, the game is 90% mental. If the hitter knows you have no problem throwing inside then it gives them something else to think of. If I were a pitcher who throw in the mid 90's I would be one of the most hated opponents in the game. Again, never at the head but anything from the neck down is fair game. Also, I wouldn't neccessarily throw at guys because they launched one on me or "showed me up". I would do it to discourage them FROM launching one on me. Ok...maybe I would throw at Papi or Youks after hitting one but that's probably it. Then I'd flash the heat off the plate andkill 'em with the off speed stuff on the corner after they're all lathered up....haha.

Any scouting report on Cristopher Cabrera or where he is on the international rankings?

hank white was the veteran catcher that would calm big z down last year. also, i am one of the few people who likes z's emotions. he is one of the few players you know who is giving it is all for the team. this year the cubbies have not found the guy to calm him down. remember, he could not hit today. sometimes he uses his at-bats to get rid of some frustration. take some violant swings at the plate and it helps get rid of some of the stress. buy z one of those squeeze stress toys everytime he starts. when he starts to show some emotion, give him the toy in the dugout, or have ruthchild take it out to mound when he needs to talk to z. his emotions are good to see compared to bradley's. z never gets in an arguement with sweet lou. it could be the catchers fault for z struggling this a bit.

remember cubs fans maddux always needed his own catcher. Hank White was his. maddux pitched well enough to deserve his catcher. z is getting into the category where is deserving of one too

Zambrano is a #2 getting treated and paid like a number one. He is not one. He's overrated by all Cub fans who think he's just amazing.

I honestly doubt we could get anything good for this guy. He's going to end up on the DL for years now because he slacks off with his mechanics, he a sinkerballer(dime-a-dozen), his contract is atrocious, etc...

When did Zambrano's contract become so horrible? when they signed it it was considered below his market value and since then the Santana and Sabathia deals have completely blown the market for pitchers with his talent level.

Bradley's the one they should just waive and let Hoffpauir, Fukudome and Johnson fill out right/center. you'll get more production out of both spots and improve the mood in the clubhouse. then you can just wait until Ramirez comes back and that pretty much solves your offensive problems.

"When did Zambrano's contract become so horrible? when they signed it it was considered below his market value"

It was never below market value, and in fact was well above market value from the very start.

It is the 20th highest amount ever given to any player (any possition), and he ranks 13th on the “average annual value” scale with his 18.3 million average. He even averages a higher annual salary then Zito (18MM), Peavy (17.333) and Burnett (16.5).

Suzys knows what he is talking about though.

"i am one of the few people who likes z's emotions."

LOL. Zambrano is a classless waste of flesh. His antics on the field is a disgrace to the human race.

Dye would be a nice pickup, but he'd have to play LF. Nate has MORE than earned RF, with his bat and his frikken GUN for an arm! Plus we could move Bengie OUT of the 4 spot!!!!!!

Teahan would be a good pickup for 2B. Not sure what they would want for him...

Rowand CF
Teahan 2B
Sandoval 3B
Dye LF
Schierholtz RF
Ishikawa 1B
Molina C
Renteria SS

That actually looks good!

Expendables: Randy Winn, Jonathan Sanchez, Alex Hinshaw, Merkin Valdez, Kevin Frandsen, Juan Uribe, Henry Sosa, Bob Howry, Fred Lewis

Players that I don't want to give up but probably would have to give one: John Bowker, Nick Noonan, Travis Ishikawa

The Indians also need to Draft pitchers who can throw hard enough to punch out a batter when the count is 0-2 / 1-2 instead of these sissy pitchers who top out at 91 on the radar gun. Like Huff / Sowers and Laffey and 80% of the pitchers at AAA & AA.

Phil Rogers is the biggest idiot who was ever allowed to sit down at a keyboard.

According to Phil's "offseason scorecard" logic, if the Cubs waived Z, and the Pirates claimed him and offered Virgil Vazquez and his 7.15 career ERA, then the deal would be even, becasue each team got a major league starting pitcher.

This guy is a moron. Anyone who knows ANYTHING about baseball should boycott whatever publication he's affiliated with.

Zambrano has a career 1.29 WHIP. That's not very good. His career ERA is an above average 3.49. His career K:BB ratio is about 2:1, which isn't bad, but isn't spectacular. Bottom line: Zambrano is about a #2 guy on most staffs and maybe a #3 on some teams with deeper rotations. No way would I ever label him an "ace." Santana, Carpenter, and Halladay are aces - Zambrano is just not in that category.

Wins are a stupid way to judge a pitcher's value because they are so arbitrary. Javier Vazquez is one of the best pitchers in the NL this year (3.04 ERA, 1.06 WHIP and about a 4:1 K:BB ratio) and his record is 5-7. Wins are dependent on a team's defense and offense.

Having said all that, it would be incredibly stupid for the Cubs to just drop Zambrano for the sake of dropping him.

Lastly, I read a claim above that the Cubs are the favorites to win the Central. That's news to me. When was the last time, this season, that they led the division?

zambrano is not a problem. fans always tolerate his crap because he helps them win. cubs' problem is signing/trading for all these hacks: freel, heilman, bradley, gregg, and those 3 schmucks for dero.

doesn't anyone else feel that acquiring gregg just sucked all the motivation/fire out of marmol?

I hope the Cubs acquire Holliday. Then their farm will pretty much be nothing. Pretty much the only reason the Cards got Derosa and are not going to get Holliday is because the A's were asking for Wallace. Any team willing to pay that price for a few months of Holliday, be mu guest

bkoke, would you rather have someone go out for your team and half-a$$ it all the time and show no emotions when your team is playing well below its potential, or have a zambrano who goes all out every play and shows his emotions when things are going bad. me personally, i'll take z any day

“YOu guys are insane. Z is a 27 year old stud who's won 90 games over the last 6 years for you. So what he's overpaid. I would rather give him his 18 mil a year and have him go out and throw 200 IP, w/ a sub 4.00 era that gives me a chance to win every 5 days versus the $204 mil tied up in Bradley, Fukodome and Soriano. It kills me how ungreatfull you guys are. Over the last 6 years who's been a better SP than Z? “

What are you talking about? How are we ungrateful? We where not here really complaining - we where talking. Do you know the difference?

And it is fine and dandy for a fan of a team that throws money away like toilet paper to say “so what he’s overpaid”, but for us it is a little different. This past offseason was a joke, our team didn’t make a single logical move because of the fact we had those “overpaid” players. Every single move Hendry made was with the tight budget in mind. Even Bradley, and his contract being broken down to 5 million in 09 with a 4 million signing bonus. Well, at the top of those “overpaid” lists are Zambrano then Soriano – they make much, much more then anyone else on the club yearly.

Then seriously, you think just because a pitcher has an ERA under 4 and throws 200 innings a year they should be paid like one of the greatest players to ever walk the planet? Maybe that works for your Yankees, but it doesn’t for ANYONE else. Zambrano has the third highest annual salary ever given to a pitcher on a multi year deal. Let me repeat that, Zambrano has the third highest annual salary ever given to a pitcher on a multi year deal. Now let us think about the last three years (well, 2.5) really fast

2009 121 ERA+, 3.69 ERA, 1.325 WHIP
2008 114 ERA+, 3.91 ERA, 1.293 WHIP
2007 118 ERA+, 3.95 ERA, 1.331 WHIP

That says third highest annual salary to you? That is kind of, but not quite as good as, your 26-28 year old pitcher that imploded this year at the age of 29. You ready to give Wang the third highest average salary ever for a pitcher?

All of that said, I want Zambrano here, I do. We can win with him, he is a positive asset. (not reliable, but positive). What I don’t want, is his contract. If he blows his arm off, it will easily be the worst on the club. Bradley and Fukudome hurt, but they are nearly 50% what Zambrano makes a year for the next 4 years. Soriano is a sunk cost, but even if he gets horribly hurt, he can still be a hitter. Zambrano pulls a Wang, and we are probably done.

“Lastly, I read a claim above that the Cubs are the favorites to win the Central. That's news to me. When was the last time, this season, that they led the division?”

Coming into the season we were favorites to win the division. That doesn’t just go away when we are within a few games despite the fact we haven’t had a single hitter on our team produce like they should (well, outside of Lee).

“ I thought the nats signed dunn for 5 mil a year. someone help me ibanez, abreu, and dunn. someone signed for 5 mil a year. which one? thanks for correcting me on dunn”

Abreu was 1 year at 5 million
Ibanez was 3/31.5 – 6.5 in 09, 11.5 in 2010 and 2011 with a 2 million bonus and was the first contract really signed, back in the middle of December
Dun was 2/20 – 8 in 09, 12 in 2010
Burrell was 2/16 – 7 in 09, 9 in 2010

SuzysMan...you can insult all you want. My point is that Z's salary, albeit high, isn't what is keeping them from making other moves. Despit being overpaid, Z is still young, still talented and speaking theoritically, just reaching his prime. Z is 27 years old and has 3/54 mil left on his deal (assuming the vesting option doesn't happen). His contract will end somewhere around ages 30-31. Instead, direct your anger at Soriano @ age 33 (owed $90 mil over 5 years), Fukodome @ age 32 (owed $26 mil over 2 years) or Milton Bradley @ 31 (owed $24 mil over 2 years). The three of them are all being paid huge sums at somewhat of an advanced age when you typically see a decline in performance. Z may not be a true #1 but he certainly has #1 ability and despite what might be viewed as underperforming to his talent levels he still produces nice results. And his lifetime 3.49 IS pretty damn good considering he plays in a hitter friendly ball park (3.63 ERA, .563 win % at Wrigley VS his away numbers of 3.35 ERA, .655 win %) and is very comparable to several other all-star, cy young caliber national league starters like Sheets (3.72), Glavine (3.54) and Peavy (3.29).

At the end of the day, in Z, you're investing in his recent results and what his cieling might be in his prime. In Soriano, Bradley and FUkodome you are paying for past history and the strady decline that has already begun.

A replacement SP (200 IP, 3.50 ERA) for Zambrano will cost you a lot closer to $17.5 mil than a replacement LF for Soriano (.235/.300 14 hrs) @ $18 mil, a replacement CF for Fukodome (.260/.383 5 hr) @ $13 mil or a replacement RF for Bradley (.232/.349 5 hr) @ $9 mil.

Just using the Yanks OF as an example: Damon, Cabrera and Swisher would cost you $22 mil this year where as Soriano, Fukodome and Bradley are costing you $40 mil. Herein lies the major problem. Not so much that your spending tons of money, but that your spending tons of money AND still need to acquire more players and salary to get the desired results. Z on the other hand, if healthy, should be good for somewhere around 12-15 wins and 180-200 IP and an ERA around 3.80. Not Cy Young type results despite the Cy Young salary but still would probably cost you $12-$15 mil on the opening market. And in the coming years, IN HIS PRIME, you can forecast better results.

Soriano, Fukodome and Bradly may or may not EVER have a 30-40 hr year, or 200 hits and a .300/.380 line left in them, and that's pretty much how they would have to perform (to varying degrees) to justify their salaries. The Cubs could probably put Hoffpauir and Fox out there for a full season and see similar results for 1/5th of the cost.

“A replacement SP (200 IP, 3.50 ERA) for Zambrano will cost you a lot closer to $17.5 mil than a replacement LF for Soriano (.235/.300 14 hrs) @ $18 mil, a replacement CF for Fukodome (.260/.383 5 hr) @ $13 mil or a replacement RF for Bradley (.232/.349 5 hr) @ $9 mil.”

Let us focus on this for a moment

Compare the two

18.333 AAV for Zambrano
117 ERA+, 3.89 ERA, 1.316 WHIP 2007-today

9 million AAV for Ted Lilly
118 ERA+, 3.85 ERA, 1.168 WHIP 2007-today

Ok, so let us take a look at some other starters around the league then
(all stats 2007 to today)

15 AAV for Derek Lowe on his new deal
117 ERA+, 3.74 ERA, 1.234 WHIP

12.08 AAV for Aaron Harang (post controlled portion)
110 ERA+, 4.15 ERA, 1.276 WHIP

11.75 AAV for Tim Hudson
112 ERA+, 3.86 ERA, 1.288 WHIP

11.5 AAV for Javier Vasquez
115 ERA+, 3.96 ERA, 1.194 WHIP

11.1875 AAV for Danny Haren
147 ERA+, 3.01 ERA, 1.099 WHIP

11 AAV for Gil Meche
114 ERA+, 3.90 ERA, 1.328 WHIP

11 AAV for Jake Westbrook
112 ERA+, 4.10 ERA, 1.361 WHIP (of course 09 missing because of injury)

10.5 AAV for Josh Beckett
130 ERA+, 3.59 ERA, 1.177 WHIP

10 AAV for Aaron Cook
117 ERA+, 3.98 ERA, 1.338 WHIP

9.5 AAV for Kelvin Escobar
130 ERA+, 3.51 ERA, 1.277 WHIP

7.333 AAV for Doug Davis
114 ERA+, 4.05 ERA, 1.518 WHIP

OR… Recently your Yankees signed a deal that is considered to be rather bad and vastly overpaying by most peoples accounts. This is how it breaks down

16.5 million AAV for AJ Burnett
111 ERA+, 3.93 ERA, 1.295 WHIP

And I again bring up your falling 29 year old. Compare Wang going into this season
120 ERA+, 3.74 ERA, 1.304 WHIP (and same age)
Would you have given him an 18.333 AAV contract to cover the next 4 years?

or how about we just compare him to another “bad” contract in most peoples eyes

17.333 AAV for Peavy’s new extension
135 ERA+, 2.90 ERA, 1.126 WHIP
Zambrano is being paid a million more then Peavy to produce an average ERA+ 20 points lower.

Really, Zambrano should cost 10-15 dollars max for his production, 3-8 million less then what we are paying for him. That is extreme. That alone is the difference of having DeRosa, or making that miserable offseason move. And for as great as some people will have you think our ace is, his production is perfectly comparable to every other number 2 out there (and even some number 3’s)

When put on the level of other players on our team, only Soriano is overpaid to that extreme. Fukudome (12 million) and Bradley (10 million) are floating around the average annual salary for an above-average outfielder off the market. (above average being questionable in the case of Fukudome, but it wasn’t expected) They are under producing, but they are paid about what they would have cost anyone else, and what their replacement would cost us off the FA market. At most, they would be like 2-3 over what such a player with their credentials would cost. The money saved by removing them and buying a replacement would maybe cover the annual salary of Miles, nothing more.

1. Is Zambrano a bad, or questionable contract? Yes. For any team. He was in decline when he signed that thing, although he was entering his statistical (read: mean function, some hit it earlier, some later) prime.

05: 3.26 ERA, 2.35 K/BB, 3.70 FIP
06: 3.41 ERA, 1.83 K/BB, 4.14 FIP
07: 3.95 ERA, 1.75 K/BB, 4.58 FIP

And, frankly, he's kept declining.

The contract was given with little mindfulness of his past performance. Complete decline.

2. You just can't claim lack of payroll flexibility with the Cubs' offseason, regardless of Soriano/Zambrano/. Hendry replaced a cheaper, superior group of players with a more expensive group of suck.

Hendry had zero grasp of what his team needed. "Get more left handed" = LH PH options off the bench, i.e. Micah Hoffpauir. NOT "team overhaul."

The difference between Hendry's purged players and Hendry's new guys (not counting Wood since he was a FA):

Gaudin, Marquis, Wuertz, DeRosa, and Olson: cost ~18.5MM, +4.5 WAR.

Bradley, Gregg, Heilman, Miles, and the salary eaten to dump Gaudin and Marquis, and get and subsequently release Vizcaino in favor of David Patton: ~19.025MM, -1.0 WAR

Before someone argues this, saying Wuertz couldn't be the "closer" as opposed to Gregg when Marmol struggled is asinine.

“2. You just can't claim lack of payroll flexibility with the Cubs' offseason, regardless of Soriano/Zambrano/. Hendry replaced a cheaper, superior group of players with a more expensive group of suck.”

Yes you can, and you pretty much just proved it. He removed 18.5 and added 19.025 – he couldn’t just add cash to make needed moves. If not Bradley, Dunn or someone else would have been needed just the same, and all of those other transactions would have needed to take place to put us back where we started. Now, you can argue we didn’t need a big bat, but we do as long as Soriano refuses to hit outside of the 1 hole. And you can argue which specific moves should have been made, but the dollar mount could not exceed what he removed.

We are really in that bad situation where we have had no minor league system, so we have been forced to buy players for basically every position. When it gets to that point, its easy to say “well you are paying too much for your OF” or whatever like the Yankees fan did, but there was no real other option. Hendry has done a horrific job with contracts, for years! He has continually over paid players for unknown reasons, even to ones willing to give us a discount. The team is falling apart under his control, and this year is finally having some of my fellow fans take notice.

Dempster, Ramirez, Fukudome, Lee, Bradley, and everyone else is over paid to some extent, but none are extreme and it’s the accumulative value difference that hurts with all of them. Zambrano and Soriano are different though. If one (or both) of them were not here and a 10-15 million dollar player was in their place, most of our contract issues instantly go away. It would take 3 or 4 of the other players removed and replaced to make the same difference as one of them alone. And that is why Zambrano is just as much of a burden as Soriano.

Also, on your mentioning of Zambrano’s decline. You can also see his extremely low production of 05 and 06 was kind of a fluke to begin with. Projection sights continually gave 3.75-4.25 as his expected or comparable ERA. Even when he was looking like he was our true ace, he was a 2 in disguise. Yet Hendry ignored that, completely, as if he has never heard of projections (and probably hasn’t based on some of our issues). The Zambrano contract is a true joke, in almost every sense. Length, Amount, Timing, it was all horrible.

I dig Dye's power in the Giants lineup, I just don't know how sold I am on him staying healthy. He just seems like he is one of those players who is always hurt (back or knees or something). Teahen could be a good fit considering the inconsistencies that the Giants have been plagued by at that position all year. One name that has fallen off of he radar who might be an even better fit would be JJ Hardy. Sure, he plays SS for the Brew-crew, but there is no reason they cant swing him over the 2nd... Better off, put him at short and get that bum, Renteria, off the field. He is a hack. And there is always the elusive dangling of Jorge Cantu and Dan Uggla that we have been hearing about for months.

I think that packaging Sanchez, Frandsen and Lewis could be a good deal for a team looking for young prospects (fred isnt that young, but meh...). I just would really like to see them make one move that would bring in a bat. They currently have the 2nd best record in the National league and are the leaders for the Wild Card. Anyone who thinks that the Giants aren't a legitimate threat is just plain ignorant. It's true that pitching will probably not hold up through the entire season, but if the Giants can add one piece of lumber to their lineup, they give themselves a serious shot to make the playoffs... which is where they could do some serious damage.

Lincecum, Johnson and Cain....

vs....

Billingsly, Kuroda and Kershaw...

Hamels, Moyer and Happ...

Carpenter, Wainwright and Piniero

...I'll take that 3 man rotation in the playoffs any day. If they get there, I fear any team that has to face them.

Suzy..you are simply missing my point. Even in an off-season Z is still contributing by taking the ball every 5 days and giving you quality starts (6 IP, 3 runs or less) each time out. In 9 of his 13 starts that's exactly what he gave you. The fact that he is over priced is a given. But his prescense results in more positives than negatives. Also, to replace him it will absolutely cost you something in the $12-15 mil per year range. Forget about the NY teams for a second, Dempster and Lowe each signed for an avg of $14 mil per year and they have similar stats than Z.

On the other hand there's no way Fukudome has come close to being worth the $12 mil he's getting paid and thus far neither has Bradley. With respect to who is handcuffing the Cubs from making improvements then logic begs the question, "what are the improvements needed to be made", "what are you paying those responsible for the deficiencies" and "can you swap out the money already committed to mitigate the problem and allocate those funds toward their replacements".

Question #1-"What are the improvements needed to be made"?

The problem is not Z nor the pitching staff. Cubs have the 5th best team ERA in the NL, and the 2nd in the NL Central merely % points behind St. Louis. Z has the 3rd best ERA and IP among starters. So again, from a performance stand point Z is not the problem.

Cubs are bottom 5 in the NL in team OBP, Bat Avg, Runs Scored and Stolen Bases. Bradley, Soriano and Fukudome are averaging .242/.344 w/ 8 hrs and 4 SB so far but avg $11 mil per player this year. That's horrible production from your top of the order hitters and ranks among the worst in OF offensive production. On top of that I can only imagine how many runs they give up defensively.

Question #2-"What are you paying those responsible for the deficiencies"?

The Cubs have $78 mil in salary dedicated to all position players (including those on the DL). As mentioned $33 mil goes towards the 3 starting OF'ers. So 42% of position player salary is going towards 3 players that are NOT being productive.

Question #3- "Can you swap out the money already committed to mitigate the problem and allocate those funds toward their replacements"?

The three amigos are the definition of the gift that keeps on giving (or taking in this occasion). On top of what Soriano earns this year ($16 mil) his base salary shoots up to $18 mil per for 2010, 2011, 2012 and 2013. Fukudome goes from $11.5 mil to $13 mil in 2010 and $13.5 in 2011. Bradley makes $9 mil ($5 mil plus $4 mil bonus) this year and stays there in 2010 and increases to $12 mil in 2011. With the age and decline in each player (avg age of 32 and an avg salary of $13 mil owed in 2010 these contracts are dead weight. That means that either these players must turn their production upwards dramatically or Hendry will have to throw good money after bad or hope that Fox and Hoffpauir can play like all-stars while earning league minimum.

So all that was said (whew) just to say that while Z IS overpaid he is not a detriment to his team, and indeed an asset, anywhere near all 3 of your outfielders at the moment. They are the culprits handcuffing Hendry from adding needed pieces to improve the team.

And trust me I know that not every team can carry a payroll like the Yanks and hopefully, our big ticket pieces can stay healthy and produce or we might be facing the same problem, to a lesser extent, as the Cubs are now.

i have been seeing many posts saying that the other options for bradley would have cost the same. that just proves the point that bradley is overpaid. dunn, ibanez, abreu, and others are players who have year in and year out producted pretty consistant numbers, while staying healthy.

before last year, bradley was a 75-80 game/year guy. all the others averaged more than 130 games/year.

here is proof that bradley is overpaid thanks to one good season in texas, launching pad, DH-ing most of the season.

if bradley plays more than 120 games this year, you can talk to me later about his contract.

Is it me, or is this the most long winded thread EVER!!

lol not that there's anything wrong with that

Good conversation Suzysman. I wrote a reply to your last post last night but I don't see it here. Oh well. Not typing that crap over...lol. Soriano's contract was after he was coming off a monster year when the market was high. I just have a problem with the length because even though he had the power numbers his peripherals were still a warning sign (mediocre bat avg, low obp and high strikeout rate). Mike Cameron was available the same year Fukudome was signed and the Cubs forced the issue with Bradley and overpayed to get a right handed bat in the lineup. No one could forecast the low production this year but the poor defense, fragility and attitude issues were his trademark and well documented.