Odds & Ends: Nationals, Mets, Big Z

"Presented without comment: In a poll taken this afternoon, 57.2 percent of Chicago Tribune readers agreed with Phil Rogers, who opined Monday morning that the Cubs should waive Carlos Zambrano."

Yeah, it was a poor article, but the underlying truth is still there. Dollar for Value is just not there on Zambrano, his contract is horrendous. Couple it with the hot or cold nature of his play, and fans get frustrated. We shouldnt have our highest paid player giving us no chance to compete in one out of every or 4 starts, no matter how amazing he might seem in between.

But the thing is, we cant remove him. Unless it was in a deal that brings a similar number 2 type in his place, it just cant happen - our rotation is too fragile. We are built to win now, not in 2010 or 2011 or down the road. This offseason we already felt the pains of our payroll problems and lack of minor league system. We downgraded multiple positions just to financially be able to fill our one need. Next year will be even worse as we watch more contracts escalate (although, hopefully the sale will be complete and allow some flexibility).

We need to win now, and we cant do that by releasing Zambrano - it is our catch 22

This just in: Over 50% of Chicago are idiots. This also just in...what do you think the White Sox fans who took that poll voted for??

Worthless.

C Omir Santos / Brian Schneider
1B Adam LaRoche / Daniel Murphy
2B Luis Castillo
3B David Wright / Mike Lamb
SS Alex Cora
LF Mark Teahan / Gary Sheffield
CF Carlos Beltran
RF Ryan Church

SP Johan Santana
SP Mike Pelfrey
SP Carlos Zambrano
SP Livan Hernadez
SP Fernando Nieve / John Maine (split starts until Maine is healthy)

CP Krod

Thats the team i would put out there when i expect everyone who will contribute as soon as possible to be healthy again

He dumped Delgado though who is equal with the first 3, but where are you getting the money for Zambrano?

The Pirates and the Royals will not be giving away Teahan or LaRoche. They are good players, and will cost you something. the Cubs, who wont trade Z, but even if they did, wouldnt put him on waivers, but would take a few good prospects.

And Lamb is in your AAA, but is hitting 224/247/570. Not an MLB player...

Lakerdodgersyanks4life:

If you were a Mets fan and you had runners in scoring position like the Mets constantly have when the pitcher is due up, who would you rather have pinch hit Mike Lamb or Argenis Reyes who gets completely over powered all the time? I wouldn't suggest him as a starter but Lamb would be a nice veteran presence on this bench no doubt.

PHIL ROGERS- NOTHING THAT YOU WRITE HAS ANY CREDIBILITY. That's all.

"all those players were on last years team ,besides Putz and fail-rod and you had the same results,sitting home during the series,and my team is anybody that can blast the Mets,they are a overpaid bag of players that anybody can be pick up a the Dollar store,My team would be the Yankees,Phills,Fla,and the bad news bears,and the LSU TIGERS"

Yankee fan? Well, that explains everything. No need to defend yourself anymore, your ignorance already shines through.

metkiller, what are you talking about??? Buying a title?? This team has developed some premier talent and picked up a bunch of guys off of the scrap heap that no one else wanted. We have 3 big free agent signings on the roster = K Rod, Beltran, and Billy Wagner. Everyone else we have gotten through trades and paid money to retain. The problem with the Mets is that are not aggressive enough catering to FA. The Mets have developed the same amount of players through their own system as the Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs, Dodgers, Angels, or any other big market team. To pick on the Mets for "buying a title", especially when being a YANKEES fan, you're a clueless moron who knows nothing about baseball.

As to what the Mets should do.....nothing. What can we do? No way should we give up our prospects for garbage like Nick Johnson, Adam Laroche, or Mark Teahen. This offseason we need a big bat at a corner OF spot and another reliable arm in the rotation. Minaya can no longer count on Maine to be healthy or Ollie to produce. We need another bat for this lineup, hopefully Matt Holliday. With Delgado and Wagner coming off the books, that's 25 mil to play with this offseason. We can pursue Holliday, Rich Harden, and another Livan-type innings eater for the rotation (Joel Pinero?). No sense trading for anyone right now, I don't want to empty the farm system for garbage that won't help us or for guys we can sign this offseason for nothing. We just have to take our lumps and hope we can stay in it long enough to get healthy and contend.

And icedrake523, I definitely don't think we should shop Pelfrey. He is still young and still learning how to pitch. You're right that he may not be a 2, but he could be a very very solid 3 starter. We need to look to sign a 2 starter this offseason (John Lackey or Rich Harden preferrebly).

I guess as a Mets fan, you have to be delusional, even to the point where you argue you don't buy your teams and act as though the bulk of your talent is homegrown...the ace (Twins) best hitter (Royals) closer (Angels)...the only thing homegrown is what ur smokin

Releasing Z would undoubtedly be a bone head decision, but the guy is a cancer. Either way, I think it's something you deal with in the offseason- Milton Bradley is the one they need to look to move.

best hitter= Beltran
ace= Santana
closer = K Rod

you say 3rd base and shortstop...oooook, and?????

i agree Cwsbaseballyes. z is not the problem. overpaid, yes i will agree. problem with the cubs, no. if a starting pitcher is giving you a 3.50s ERA, any team would be happy. when z shows his emotions, he does not agrue with other teammates. besides michael barrett, but that was solved a long time ago. bradley is the problem. when he shows his emotions, everything in the clubhouse erupts. also, imo, the most underacheiving 10 mil plus free agent player this first half of the season.

can somewhat deal with fukudome because at least his defense is well above average. he may cost runs at the plate, but he also saves runs out in the field. also, fuk's batting numbers are better than bradley's numbers, but who's isnt.

defensive wise, cant say the same about bradley. ie 2 out screw-up earlier this month.

start of a new subject for cubs fans, blame hendry and his dumb moves this offseason. miles, gathwright, 3 nothings from dero trade, gregg, and more

I used Ethier because we traded for him when he was nothing more than an average prospect and turned him into a MLB starter who has a 20HR season in a season where he wasnt a starter, and already has 14HRs. He also has 5 multi hr games, second to albert. We also picked up Belisario on the minor league FA and made him a top MLB setup man, by working him out and giving him a chance.

So, you can count guys you traded for that were average to below average prospects and made them into up-and-coming stars, or guys you picked off the scrap heap form the PIRATES, not even a succesful franchise, but one that he couldnt get a job there, and made him a succesful setup man. Not guys who signed multi yr deals, or for over 100M

them*

Not counting this year of Krod

Um, santana? i think he has had just as much impact as Wright and reyes. But he doesnt count cause it was a trade? ok... sure

“I used Ethier because we traded for him when he was nothing more than an average prospect and turned him into a MLB starter who has a 20HR season in a season”

You did all this in one month, did you?

"Does anyone have any suggestions for the woebegone Mets?,"

FIRE MINAYA. He's the one common denominator the last few years.

Yea, i didnt understand what you meant. and your correct, he spent one month in AAA. However, if you look at his numbers, he has gotten progressivly better, in most categories, his numbers have gotten stronger in every yr in the majors. Some may say that its just cause he got older, but it has a lot more to do with coaching he has gotten he got in the majors. And before you say average, if you look at his 'luck stat', it is extremly low compared to his career average. If his number was at his career average, he would have btwn 10-15 more hits, and his average would be at about 295.

Zambrano and Bradley to rangers for blaylok and padilla. Aram comes back healthy ship out blaylock at deadline if not then 3rd base is covered for the year. How about bad contract for bad contract - Sori for Zito then ship out Z for an OF. God I love making things up as I go along

Trade Proposal

Dodgers Acquire: Carlos Beltran
Mets Acquire: Clayton Kershaw, Juan Pierre, and James Loney

Dodgers get arguably the best CF in the game. They take on his full contract
Mets get a future # 2 and good players in Juan Pierre and James Loney. Juan Pierre offsets the difference in money. This is all assuming Beltran returns before the Trade Deadline.
This works out for both teams because Mark Loretta will then slot in 1B for the Dodgers. I am not sure if the dodgers can replace Kershaws numbers but if they really need it, I would include Tim Redding or Livan for a low level prospect. What do you guys think?

Padilla and Blaylok both come off the books next year - would be slightly better than waiving both Bradley and Zambrano. At least we lose the contracts and have replacement ( albeit not equal ones) for the rest of 09. Personally I prefer to keep Zambrano and just waive Bradley

Wow, metkiller! You are a moron. I mean, you have so much ammo considering how poorly the Mets are playing, but somehow you manage to make yourself look stupid. Cashman would've loved to have had J.J. Putz in his bullpen as would anyone at the time. The fact that Cashman didn't get it done has nothing to do with foresight. No one could have predicted that Putz was going to be injured again. No one could have predicted that the Mets were going to have all the injuries they have. Fact is, I'd take a fully healthy Mets team over a fully healthy Yankees team. Your team will probably make it to the playoffs, but your bullpen won't get you far boyond that. Guaranteed.

Yeah, I think jr. METS forgot about Manny when presenting that trade. Regardless, as a Mets fan I wouldn't want to part with a healthy Beltran. I'd rather trade Reyes, but only in a sell high situation, which we're not in right now.

Its actually Jeffress 3rd violation.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-brewers-jeffresssuspended&prov=ap&type=lgns

“However, if you look at his numbers, he has gotten progressivly better, in most categories, his numbers have gotten stronger in every yr in the majors. Some may say that its just cause he got older, but it has a lot more to do with coaching he has gotten he got in the majors.”

06 .308 / .365 / .477 / .842
07 .284 / .350 / .452 / .802 (-.024 / -.015 / -.025 / -.042 off 06)
08 .305 / .375 / .510 / .885 (+.021 / +.025 / +.058 / +.083 off 07)
09 .261 / .357 / .481 / .838 (-.044 / -.018 / -.029 / -.047 off 08)

Yes, I see what you mean with the “progressively better” thing.

Look, I’m sorry, but you can not try to take credit for developing Ethier. He was the hitter he is today the day you got him. The only thing that changed is he is no longer a 24 year old rookie. Now he is a 27 year old with 1856 plate appearances under his belt. He has grown as a hitter but not that much as normal people do from 24-27. But his overall production has been within 15 points of BA/OBP and 30 points of SLG to that rookie season every single year. That isnt a progressive change, that is about as consistent a 4 year run you will find in the game.

Oooooh I get it now, you think producing 2 skill position players out of a possible 8 is good....OK, great job!

max -- i hear ya man, you know how hard it is right now though... BBT referring to us as a below average team at best while we have what 80 million on the dl? its outrageous

'Trade Proposal

Dodgers Acquire: Carlos Beltran
Mets Acquire: Clayton Kershaw, Juan Pierre, and James Loney

Dodgers get arguably the best CF in the game. They take on his full contract
Mets get a future # 2 and good players in Juan Pierre and James Loney. Juan Pierre offsets the difference in money. This is all assuming Beltran returns before the Trade Deadline.
This works out for both teams because Mark Loretta will then slot in 1B for the Dodgers. I am not sure if the dodgers can replace Kershaws numbers but if they really need it, I would include Tim Redding or Livan for a low level prospect. What do you guys think?"

Just let me break this down. you want to take a future LH ace, our 1B who isnt an all star, but leads out team in RBIs, and a very good 4th OF for one of the top CF in the game? We have Kemp in CF, who's defensive numbers are top 3 in the league, Manny in left, and Ethier, who has to most walk-off hits in the last two yrs already. Where do we put Ethier or Kemp. Kemp isnt a RF anymore, and Ethier is much better than a 4th OF. If you really think we want to replace Kershaw with Livan, your insane. And then Mark Lorreta should play 1B? He is a bench guy, nothing more, but a very good one. You must have been drunk or just a blind New Yorker, and I know many of them, to even make this trade...

'"Um, santana? i think he has had just as much impact as Wright and reyes. But he doesnt count cause it was a trade? ok... sure"

LOL what about manny? The bag of feces that was left on Huntington's door was really fair value to Manny and that trade doesnt happen unless Bay goes from Pitt to Boston. You guys have developed some good players as i mentioned but many are still FA's and trades similar to us. Furcal, Manny, Hudson, Ethier, Pierre etc. Get off your high horse about how legendary the Dodgers FO is when Coletti is as god awful as Minaya and actually could be worse with the Jones and Schmidt contracts.'

Are you really saying that the mets are better at devolping players because we traded for Manny while you traded for Santana? Pitt got raped in the Manny-Bay trade, but Boston and LA both did very well. Pitt still could be OK from the trade, but we wont know for a few yrs. There is no doubt that Hudson, Ethier, Pierre, Manny have all helped us, a lot. Furcal hasnt done much for the last 2 yrs, with back surgery. Manny carried us to the playoffs, but hasnt done this yr. Ethier has been really good this yr and in the past. Pierre has had his best yr since his Flordia days. Hudson has resurected his career in LA. And before you rip Colletti for Jones, Schmidt, and even Pierre, you should know that McCourt took over each negotiation. Colletti has been pretty good by himself, including keeping Manny for his numbers, trading for Ethier, and letting Logan White and Kim Ng control the scouting. The dodgers have made a smarter team from scouting and FA signings.

"Oooooh I get it now, you think producing 2 skill position players out of a possible 8 is good....OK, great job!

Posted by: TomahawkChoppin609 | June 30, 2009 at 11:45 AM"

Listen you ignorant hillbilly, homegrown talent doesn't mean sh**. We have developed Wright, Reyes, Pelfrey, Murphy, and Parnell. The only big FA acquisitions on this team are Beltran, K Rod, and Wagner. We traded (meaning we gave up players) for Delgado, Santana, Maine, Perez, Castillo, Church, Putz, and Schneider. That means that any team in baseball could have had those players. The Mets have 3 major FA acquisitions on their team. The Braves have Derek Lowe, Rafael Soriano, Mike Gonzalez, Garrett Anderson, and Tim Hudson. Really not all that unsimilar from the Mets. So before you spout ignorance about the Mets lack of homegrown talent, think before you speak hillbilly. We also have a great minor league system, dedicated fan base, and brand new ballpark. You have overrated garbage in your minor league system, no hillbillies show up to the games (they would rather watch NASCAR), and you're team is garbage. Why don't you go develop some more Jeff Francoeur's in that minor league system of yours. I OWN YOU HILLBILLY BRAVES FAN!!!!!!!!!!!!

Um, the Braves have arguably one of the top farm systems. How can you call Anderson, Soriano or Gonzalez major FA acquisitions??? The Braves have devolped Chipper, Tom Glavine, McCann, etc. The Braves have honestly been had more success in trades and devolpement than the Mets over the last 15 yrs...

Ok couple things. First of all, I never said the Braves don't develop players. I'm aware of the talent they've had come through their system, they've done a great job. I said they have overrated garbage in their farm system RIGHT NOW. That hillbilly said the Mets don't develop talent and just sign major free agents, which is a blatant lie. I was simply proving him wrong. The Braves have more free agent acquisitions on their roster than the Mets do. Why is everyone knocking the Mets for signing free agents? Last I checked the other teams had the ability to sign free agents too. Second of all, the Mets are better than the Braves because they have a better record. Third, I never said break up the team. I said shop guys not named K Rod, Reyes, Wright, Beltran, Pelfrey, and Johan. How is trading Livan Hernandez or Ryan Church or Gary Sheffield breaking up the team? This team will not make the playoffs this year, but neither will the Braves. How did I advocate breaking up the team? I don't understand what was so difficult to comprehend about my post.