Amaro: Phils Have Flexibility To Add An Ace

If Drabek is an untouchable, the Phils won't get Halladay.

What if Halladay agrees to an extension beyond 2010?

Send carrasco, Donald, Marson-maybe a major leaguer- and some minor league fodder. Knapp, Drabek,
and Taylor are untouchable in my eyes. I'm not as sold on Brown though. Aside from being 2 years younger, what does he have on Taylor? That's just my impression from the stats, so someone who's seen him can fill me in.

The Phills do have a bunch of "A" prospects (Drabek, Brown, Taylor, Carrasco), but if they're unwilling to deal them, I think that opens the playing field to the teams with lesser prospects.

Plus, I can't see them trading Happ. Replacing his rotation spot with Halladay means the 5th starter spot is a combo of Rodrigo Lopez and maybe Bastardo again. Obviously the Phills would love to keep Happ in that spot, and I don't blame them.

"The phillies should give up their future for 1 year and a couple months of halladay. Can they afford to resign him

Posted by: beastOftheEast | July 08, 2009 at 04:48 PM"

Eh, maybe not. Howard will command a ton after each season as usual, Victorino as he improves will demand more money, they will have to pick up the option on Rollins, Werth becomes a free-agent.

Plus, you gotta figure someone throws 20+mil per year at Halladay. Even though he will be 34.

The Phillies really don't have good enough prospects to be untouchable. If they're saying that the best of their mediocre farm system isn't available, then there is no way in hell theyre getting Halladay or any other decent pitcher for that matter.

"Send carrasco, Donald, Marson-maybe a major leaguer- and some minor league fodder."

I am sure 4-5 teams can offer less and make a better deal.

Posted by: 661dodgerblue | July 08, 2009 at 05:02 PM

Eh, maybe. The Phillies offense is in it's prime, there offense will slip a little year by year. Win now.

How do the phils have flexibility to trade for Halladay yet plan to make a 2nd rate offer without anything of value? The twins got fleeced for Santana so don't expect the jays to make the same mistake!

"Why would any pitcher want to play in that little league stadium?

Posted by: davistd48 | July 08, 2009 at 05:21 PM "

The World Series banner does not hurt.

By them I meant several oftheir good, but not Red Sox good, prospects.

Knapp, Drabek, and Taylor are untouchable in my eyes. I'm not as sold on Brown though. Aside from being 2 years younger, what does he have on Taylor? That's just my impression from the stats, so someone who's seen him can fill me in.
Posted by: mford | July 08, 2009 at 05:01 PM

I agree with you. They should reverse their stance on Taylor and Brown. Yes, Brown is good. But Taylor is a 5 tool player as well, could be major league ready by next season, and is a RH power hitter, something the Phillies sorely lack. I've seen Taylor play and he also has those intangibles that make up real stars in the majors.

If Brown can be the headline of a package that would leave out Drabek and Carrasco, I would do it. Maybe:
Brown, Donald, Savery, Carpenter and another pitcher (Flande, Bastardo, Worley). I doubt that would get it done, though. Just throwing it out there.

I also thought of a way the Phillies could get away with giving up lesser prospects.
What if they agree to take Rios along with Halladay and send Victorino back along with prospects. The Jays would really have to consider that because it would free up alot of money for them. I would hate to see that happen, since I am a huge Victorino fan, but it is a creative solution that could work in the Phillies favor.

I still say Texas will be the winner of the Halladay sweepstakes. I know, I know..they owe mlb money, but we're only talking about $7 mil this year and next year they can offset his salary by declining Padilla's option and letting Blalock walk. Texas has the prospects, they are in a pennant race w/ a limited window of opportunity and Halladay is exactly the kind of pitcher Ryan covets and would want to guide a young staff.

@DKA: At least according to Heyman's source, PHI is one of three places Halladay will accept a trade to, the others being NYY and BOS.

I'm not saying he wouldn't accept OTHER places, but those three were specifically mentioned.

As for pitching in Philly: Stop buying the hype. The park is larger than several other parks, and has played to BARELY a hitter's advantage the last couple seasons...with a mediocre at best Phils staff most of those years. It's not a softball stadium.

I wonder if Toronto would take back a couple of bad contracts that expire after season on top of a really good package of prospects from Texas just to help get the deal done? Padilla can be a FA next year w/ a $1.75 mil buyout and Blalock is a FA as well. Their collective 2009 salaries would offset Halladays 09 salary thus keeping them from adding to the payroll.

Maybe Halladay for Padilla, Blalock, Justin Smoak, Taylor Teagarden, Julio Borbon and Martin Perez plus $2 mil (Padilla's buyout). Jays wouldn't save any money this year but they will save $15 mil in 2010 and they get a great package of prospects.

You guys are working some outdated info. CBP's park factor is actually in the middle of the pack for all of MLB this year (and the 2 before) and their minors are actually decently deep with high-level talent.

People are in disbelief because they're stuck in the notion that it's still 2000 and the Phillies have no prospects. Also Toronto isn't competing this year, may not next year even with their injured pitchers coming back, and they won't be able to re-sign him when his deal is up.

They'll get the most value for him this year. It may actually be smarter to do it this year than next.

Untouchable minor leaguers, lmao.

Roy Halladay is a proven top 3 pitcher presently in the majors.

Who has been playing against top notch teams like Boston and New York in the AL east division, the past decade. And in the leauge of the DHs.

Pitched the most innings since 2003, could be 2002, even when missing a great portion of the season in '04 and '05.

Just recently came back from injury and still tied for 1st for wins.

Played for a team last year that was in the bottum of the AL, and one the worst in the majors, in hitting with RISP, in overall AVG, HR, RBI last year. And still manage to get 20 wins. And he pitches in a HR type stadium. This guy should be putting up wins in the high twenties with the right team.

Pitches a lot of complete games per season. Should be more if it wasn't for a coach like Gibby.
For example: Pulls Roy during the ninth, with only one more out to go, just so newly aquired closer BJ Ryan can earn a save. And he nevered complained. How many other pitchers can pitch the amount of CG he does? ...who even pitched more than him the past 7 years or so?

This guy is a big 6'5'', 225 lbs and is in better shape than literally every other ace on each team. All the others elite pitchers are either overwieght, CC Sabathia, or tiny, like Santana.

Won a Cy Young. Seems to finish in the top in voting, or runner up, for the Cy young each year.

He never throws anything straight. All his pitches have movement. This coming from scouting and the best hitters alike:
Derek Jeter was quoted as saying that Halladay is "probably the best starter in baseball."
Alex Rodriguez was also quoted on saying that Halladay is the best pitcher in the MLB.

He's a ground ball pitchter and can get out of a bad situation with a double play with ease, but there's no need because he rarely gets into those situations. Though he pitches for contact, he also strikeouts opponents and still pitchers alot of innings. Rarely walk batters, half are probably intentional orderd by the coach! He hates people getting on base period.

Better yet, he has such a strong influence on the young pitchers down in the minors. Who you always see working out along side the Doc, copying his techniques and workouts, in spring training. Even among his peers, where as the ace of the LA Angels, Lackey, would stand by to watch Roy in his pre-game workout session before they both start and speaks of him as a top 3 pitcher in all of baseball. Look at the young ace of the Seattle Mariners, Herendez, pitching stance is very similar to that of Roy Halladay.
Just look at the pitching statistics of Toronto the past two years, the best. All youngsters.

Give the best hitters in all of the majors 570+ At Bats against Roy and what would their overall stats be? Avg? BB? etc. Or put you're so called "untouchable" hitting prospects up against him. He'll embarrass them.

He's so competitive, after a loss, his wife mentions that he's tense and quiet at the dinner table. So angry with himself she could barely talk to him. This guy's all heart and no bullshit.

Roy nevered complain or whined once about money, teammates, coaching staff, etc. This is a true professional and to me is underpaid. All he wants to do is win.

Donated 500,000 to charity after the team renewed his contract. Now that's a real role model.

If Roy Halladay was to be traded, the attendance in Toronto would be brutal just like the Florida Marlins.

This guy deserves more respect. And more of that compare to these "untouchable" minor leaguers/prospects. Where are all the top 100, 50, 25 hpyed minor leaguers in each of the past 10 years? Still developing? How old are they now? Still in the minors? Just doing okay in the majors?
On the bench? Most just fizzle out. Not many make it to the big league and become superstars.

For example: Toronto's very own OF Alex Rios was ranked #1 prospect in America, in w/e year. And was being compared to A-ROD at the time. Now he's 29, overpaid, and under-performing and still no break out year. Still valuable yet, for some reaosn, due to his potential. Bullshit!

So screw all that hyped gossip on these "untouchable" minor leaguers and prospects, most of them are at the age where they should already be in the majors and in their prime. If you wanted the Doc really bad, you'll give up a superstar and plus top class A prospect"s".

Doc Halladay gives you results. He is the most efficient pitcher around. He has the consistency, the stamina, power, the stuff and is a true professional. This is a guy who you want to build a team around.

He is the untouchable of the majors.

It's also worth pointing out that it was Manuel that called Drabek "untouchable," not Amaro, and Chuck doesn't have the authority to decide that. It's interesting because Amaro had previously called Drabek untouchable, but did not in this interview. Perhaps a sign he's willing to seriously engage Ricciardi in this.

I don't think Halladay is going to end up in Philly anyway. Toronto's needs are at 3B, SS, 1B, C, and then probably SP, and then finally OF. Donald's stock has dropped this year, even before he tore up his knee. Those Philly outfield prospects, where would they play in Toronto when the Jays already have Wells, Rios, Lind and Snider? (Plus a couple of their own good OF prospects in the minors) I think the White Sox are the front runner if they are willing to trade Beckham. The Angels to a lesser extent with a package built around Wood.

Trident,

Hold it while he pees too? Geez.

people really need to remember one simple word that explains all of this:

NEGOTIATING.

Riccardi's doing it by saying he has to be blown away and Amaro (and i'm sure others eventually) will do it as well when they say they won't give up their best either.

I'd also hope for the Jays sake that it wasn't their side that let this get out in the first place and would expect it was "leaked" from a team that was looking to get him. If it came from the Jays then they're as dumb as the Padres with all the talk surrounding Peavy over the last year plus.

At the end of the day the Jays and whoever ends up with him either meet somewhere in the middle or he ends up staying and goes later for less or stays through 2010 and they get draft pick compensation.

"He is more "untouchable" than pretty much any prospect."

i guess it is how you look at it. I define untouchable as not willing to consider......

"It's part of a GM's job to field offers if they'll make your team better."

Not if you a GM named Jim Hendry.

The Phillies overrate their prospects so much, they don't have a single prospect who is what I would call an untouchable yet they're saying the best 3 prospects in their mediocore farm are UNTOUCHABLE ridiculous.

Do they seriously expect that Toronto are going to want what they're cuurently offering?
Pure arrogance.

At the least it would be Drabek along with either Brown or Taylor, Marson & Donald.
And thats just where I would start talks, In my opinion the Jays need two dead cert star prospects to trade Halladay the Phillies don't have one... they have a handful of decent prospects who could be good.

It's been said the Jays want a star SS prospect which puts the advantage in Chicago, Anaheim & Milwaukee.
Milwaukee have said Escobar is untouchable so that leaves two teams with good prospects getting into a bidding war.
Although I think a package of Escobar, Gamel, Parra & Hart is perfect for Toronto.
They can then listen for offers on Rios, Rolen and well I'm afraid they're stuck with Well's only way they get rid of him is if a big market team takes him in the Doc trade.

Shawn (Philly)
It's been reported that the Phillies consider Kyle Drabek untouchable. If that's the case, is there any combination of prospects not including him that could entice the Jays to trade Halladay to the Phils?

Keith Law (1:04 PM)
Sticking with a theme - how stupid is that? Drabek isn't even good enough to be "untouchable" (great stuff, already blew out his elbow, fair delivery at best, makeup questions dating back to HS), but more to the point, you're talking about acquiring one of the top 5 starters in baseball - maybe the top starter in baseball - for a year and a half. You don't designate a AA pitcher as "untouchable" if you're serious about acquiring Doc.

The Phillies overrate their prospects so much, they don't have a single prospect who is what I would call an untouchable yet they're saying the best 3 prospects in their mediocore farm are UNTOUCHABLE ridiculous.

Posted by: OhPityMe | July 09, 2009 at 08:47 AM

You see now baseball america differs with you. they've got 4 phillies in the top 50.

and as for KLAW i'm thinking he's still worried about Hamels' "makeup" issues. How'd that work out???

agreed .. all these teams are trying to drive down the value and posture up... knowing that a slew of teams are in hot pursuit...