Sabean: Giants Still Looking For Bats

Alderson for Dunn OR LaRoche & a mid level prospect

done.

I apologize, I'm very deadpan with my humor so its hard to tell when i'm serious. I wasn't serious.

"I apologize, I'm very deadpan with my humor so its hard to tell when i'm serious. I wasn't serious."

Aah, my bad.

You had me fooled though. :)

"I was more along the lines of making fun of the people who come in here and spout that stuff"

But you just did the same thing.

Uh, Alderson and another prospect for Albert Pujols? Now that's going too far the other way. Yeah, I'd say you're dreaming. ;-)

Sure, two unproven prospects for one of the greatest hitters in the history of baseball at the peak of his prowess. Sounds reasonable, I'm sure the Cardinals would be stoked!

Next.

How about one or some of Overbay,Rolen,Rios?

i think i would wait till free agents for 2010 and pick up 2-3 power hitters........i like our line-up but i not sure our pitching staff will hold up......get Sheets and we will have a nasty rotation (again "Dream ON")

Alderson for Pit. Pirates and PTBAL

Would they be interested in Mike Jacobs? He sucks right now, but he has pop and would be available for practically nothing. He also has 2-3 more controllable years and isn't terribly expensive. Of course, his OBA is like .300 and he plays awful defense, but other than that he's awesome!

Yeah, that Jacobs/Nunez swap was bad at the time, and it's even worse now...

They'll be able to get Dunn without parting with Alderson or Bumgarner.

The Nationals were stupid to sign a bat like Dunn for $20MM when they were nowhere near contention. Rizzo would probably love to move the contract and get something in return for it.

If the Giants are willing to pay the remaining salaries of either Sanchez (incl. next year assuming his option vests, which it likely will) and/or LaRoche, they shouldn't have to give up that much to get them. The Pirates are just in salary dump mode and the Giants can take on payroll. Pittsburgh shouldn't expect much in return unless they're willing to pay for it. but if they were, they wouldn't be trading them in the first place.

Sabean has already said that Villalona wont be traded, but I'd be very tempted, but probably wouldn't.

For me, 2009 was never the plan, I say the Giants wait ( I hope they still make some type of move that involves F. Sanchez though). I'm looking to 2010/11 to be honest and don't want to sacrifice the future of many years of a good ball club that may have many shots at the post season.

Dunn-- again Sabean said he's not interested and made that pretty clear, so that wont happen.

nostocksjustbonds- Seriously?

I can assure you we dont need to trade Freddy Sanchez.

However, if the offer is lucrative enough, NH will part with him.

LaRoche though...Id assume Jonathen Sanchez and Kevin Franden would be adequate for NH. Would at least let us deal Jack Wilson away, who slowly is wearing his welcome thin.

I know this is going to sound crazy and I can't believe I'm supporting the idea, but with the pitching that the Giants have, they need to play great defense night in and night out to have a chance. If you take Ishikawa and his sparkling glove away at first base, that infield suffers greatly. He makes everyone else so much better that I think it warrants Bochy throwing him out there every day. Yes, the Giants need some power. However, I think it should come in the form of a second baseman or a corner outfielder. I think I can live with Ishikawa's .250/.310/.425 or thereabouts if it means I'm getting the best fielding first baseman in the game out there (check the stats...uzr).

I'm not sure I'd want to be a fan of any team where the solution to their problems is Adam Dunn. Sure he hits a lot of HRs but he has never hit for average and strikes out too much, and his defense is mediocre at best. So if Dunn is the solution, what is the problem?

Posted by: BlueSky

Haha, Seriously, that's why the nationals have him! Besides the Giants could have gotten him in the off season and chose not to, they want nothing to do with him. Quit listening to so much Damon Bruce, he's just trying to fill time on his radio show.

Giantsguy 1987,

You are right on the money. Although, I wouldn't mind sticking Dunn in LF. Even though he is superglued to the bench nowadays, I've been conditioned enough by watching Fred Lewis in LF to deal with terrible defense out there. He's one guy that I don't care what the defensive metrics say, he looks like he's playing on roller skates out there.

Dempsey, I don't think Dunn is the answer by any means either. I was just pointing out that LF is where he would have the least amount of negative impact on the team's overall team defense, therefore increasing his overall value to the team. And I think I agree with you on Randy Winn. He does soooooo many things right on a baseball field. You're not going to get equal value back for him by trading him this year, so let him walk after the season.

If they are trading good players away, they should trade for V. Martinez.

Dunn belongs in the AL, where they have room for power bats from guys who can't play the field. (Insert snarky remarks about the DH here.) But he also belongs in a lineup where he's not the only power bat. As a Dodger fan I'd cheer if the Giants traded form him, knowing that they'd have to give up serious prospects or active players to get someone who adds in one department but subtracts in a couple of others.

Btw, when are the Giants going to do whatever they have to do with Lewis and bring Bowker up?

Bowker's line at AAA: .349/.453/.614 with a 16% walk rate in 329 PA's?!?!?!

How is he not at AT&T park tonight?

Re : Victor Martinez

Sabean was recently interviewed by Tom Tolbert and mentions that he inquired on both Dye and V-Mart. (he referred to them as "the white sox player and the Indians player" since he cannot name them under tempering rules).

He said that the Giants cannot get Dye because he is not on the market. He also said the price for V-Mart is : "Bumgarner Plus, and we are not going to trade Bumgarner"

This is why Sabean needs to be fired. "Middle of the Order" bats where available as non-arbitration free agents! The Giant's wouldn't have had to give up picks or now wouldn't have to give up prospects. Dunn, Abreu, others?

"His defense at 1B isn't stellar, and we already have a crowded outfield. Believe me, I would try and get rid of Fred Lewis and put Johnny out there. Believe me, I love Bowker's line too, but there just isn't any room."

Exactly my point: Lewis has got to go. He's had his chances and he hasn't performed. Period. I had high hopes for Lewis as a major league hitter, but he just isn't. If they can't get anything for him, he should be DFA'd. The Giants need the power too much to let Bowker mash away at AAA. Oh, and he shouldn't be anywhere near first base.

"I think Giants are going to start sanchez, which bums me out. I would've called Pucetas up instead of Frandsen. He's doing pretty well at AAA."

Agree completely. Sanchez was looking great in the pen. Why not just leave him there? He gets slapped around his second and third time through the lineup.

"This is why Sabean needs to be fired. "Middle of the Order" bats where available as non-arbitration free agents! The Giant's wouldn't have had to give up picks or now wouldn't have to give up prospects. Dunn, Abreu, others?

Posted by: evader | July 07, 2009 at 01:01 PM"

And this is why we are glad you are not the GM of the San Francisco Giants.

Adam Dunn rates at a 0.9 WAR with a negative 18.2 rating on defense.

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=319&position=OF

The most sure thing? yeah, the most sure thing to not get to the ball. Think Fred Lewis. Now think Fred Lewis without speed. You have Adam Dunn.

Aaron Rowand (2.0), Randy Winn (1.3), Andres Torres (1.0) are all better than Dunn, with Schierholtz a close 0.7.

wahbjo01: I'll argue that Adam LaRoche can be an impact player...during the 2nd half of the season, which is when the Giants would have him.

Go look at his career numbers; Adam LaRoche is a second-half player...and he is a second-half player in a contract year. If Elias would rate him a Class B Free Agent, he would also be worth a conditional draft pick next year as well!

On a side note: stat geeks - does anyone know where I can find a "productive out" or "effective out" stat? Like a groundout to 2nd base that advances a runner from 2nd to 3rd? Or a non-SAC fly that advances a runner?

You can't use WAR as the be all and end all of all statistics.

WAR does not measure a player's true talent level, merely their past performance.

WAR assumes that talent between the AL and NL is equal, though much evidence suggests that this is not the case and that an AL 2 win player is more valuable than his 2 win NL counterpart.

Fangraphs does not claim decimal point accuracy (a 4.8 win and 4.3 win player are very similar.

Wins are not linear, meaning that two wins added to a 60 win team are much less valuable than two wins added to a 90 win team

In that same vein, a two win player for a 60 win team would probably not have that kind of impact on a 90 win team.

Giants could be a 90 win team. Nationals are a 60 win team.

"You can't use WAR as the be all and end all of all statistics."

That's very true and it's not the only stat I go by. The term "WINS" over replacement is a very loaded word. I just see the wins number and the higher it is, the more valuable he is in general.

"y don't they just pursue bonds sign him to a 1 year deal nd see if he can help them get to the post season in 2007 bonds had 28 homers 66 rbis 132 walks nd only 54 strikeouts nd not to mention the ticket sales would sky rocket"

I would personally sell the tickets I already have if they signed Bonds. Why not put Cinderblocks on somebody's feet and let them play outfield. That's what you're getting with bonds.

And this is why we are glad you are not the GM of the San Francisco Giants.

Adam Dunn rates at a 0.9 WAR with a negative 18.2 rating on defense.

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=319&position=OF

The most sure thing? yeah, the most sure thing to not get to the ball. Think Fred Lewis. Now think Fred Lewis without speed. You have Adam Dunn.

Aaron Rowand (2.0), Randy Winn (1.3), Andres Torres (1.0) are all better than Dunn, with Schierholtz a close 0.7.

Posted by: jct | July 07, 2009 at 01:19 PM

Wow. I didn't think I would get such a knee-jerk defense of Sabean.

You missed my point. I didn't say we should sign Dunn or Abreu (note the quotes around Middle of the Order). Rather, I was pointing out how stupid it would be to pursue those guys now when such a player could have been had without given up any picks or players. What new information indicates that we need a bat now? We knew that in the off season. We knew that in 2008.

Personally, I don't want Sabean to make any trades this season. He seems to do more harm than good. Furthermore, the only thing the Giants have to trade is pitching, and I don't think we can get comparable value for our pitchers.

I usually agree with using WAR to judge a player(Either that or UZR or OBP)but I don't think WAR really does Adam Dunn justice I really think a 40 HR guy with a .400 OBP is worth more than 0.9 wins even if the statistics say otherwise.