Discussion: Sabean And The Giants

Well thank god Riccardi is even worse at making trades. Couldn't hammer out a Rios for Lincecum deal. Oh my can you imagine a 1-2 punch of Halladay and Lincecum?

Those three are expendable for the Giants at this point with their superfluous amount of starting pitching, the rise of buster posey and they can replace uribe with the money they save from the 3 for a jason bay or adrian beltre type player

I've never been a big fan of Nady, but if Sabean can do a Nick Johnson/Xavier Nady offseason he has done a pretty good job for his team while spending less than $12 mil per.

i would love to see bay but not johnson. he should throw the money at someone else and keep ishikawa. shows more pop and way better defense. ishikawa has one of the better gloves at first in the NL. and if we bring in beltre, we could move panda to first. i'd really like to see uggla in a giants uni next year. great pop with a bad glove. i'd take that any day. especially with our offense.

thank you for ruining the thread soxcurse!

Jurrjens

we could move Sandoval to first base if we got any Third baseman

we don't need to bring back Uribe if we sign a 1B or 3B (DeRosa, Beltre, LaRoche etc.) but if his and Penny's contract demands go down which they probably will then we could bring both back

an outfielder and a 1B or 3B free agent signing are probably a must if Sabean wants to go to the playoffs
my choice would be Mike Cameron for the outfield and Adam LaRoche for 1B if they can't sign Bay or Holliday

The Giants need two hitters, either way. Some Power and OBP would be nice... Although i'd love to see Sabean shell out something for Uggla, the Giants need a couple of hitters. Period.

If our offseason ends up being Johnson/Nady i'll be dissapointed. I like them, but they're injured goods. One maybe, but not both... I'd prefer Johnson, because the guy simply gets on base. But the Giants need a long term solution at the clean up spot protecting Sandoval. Although Nady is cool, i'm not sure how he would project as a clean up hitter in our park.

His name, is Dan Uggla.

Nick Johnson would be a good idea.

how bout N. Johnson for a 5 year $65 mill deal? sounds about right, huh Sabean?

Giants won't land Bay or Holliday (although it hink holliday would do well at AT&T)... they already need to overspend to get perenial hitters to come to the Bay and if the Yanks or BoSox are involved with either of those guys they'll need to overspend even more.

The better route is grab either Nady or Cameron, and if they can also add Beltre (while moving panda to 1B) they will have a good enough lineup to compliment their pitching. I have a feeling though that Ishikawa or Bowker will break out this season. We don't need a power hitter, we need a solid one with gap power who can draw a walk. You put padding around the Panda and he'll be jacking close to 40 HRs. Also we should see a new and improved Panda next year whose already lost something like 15 lbs and is weight training for the first time in his life. Maybe someone should send that whale of a brewer they call prince the same memo.

I think penny thinks hes worth more than he is because of that stellar last month or so with sf, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of interest outside of sf.
Lets just hope Sabean doesn't buy into his immediate demands.

The Giants will not win 81 games next year is my prediction, so I don't think they should be chasing free agents. The team had a perfect storm with their pitching and still didn't make the playoffs, next year they will be lucky to finish 3rd.

ender
how will we not even win 81 games if we won 88 this season? our pitching is still there and with the addition of two hitters we should definitely have a shot at the playoffs

next time provide evidence before making a prediction like that

"Because you and I have no idea who will be available in free agency next year."

Try this: http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2001/05/potential-free-agents-for-2011.html

Bleacher Bum SF, I think what Ender was getting at with his "perfect storm of pitching" comment was that SF had almost four guys in the rotation give them 30+ starts (Sanchez had 29). Three of those four had either the best season of his career so far (Cain and Sanchez) or the best season he's had in years (Zito). That type of circumstance is unlikely to repeat.

Unless SF drastically improves the offense, it will be VERY difficult to maintain the same win total.

True, they have Posey. Is he likely to improve upon the 20 HRs and 80 RBI they got from Molina? Doubtful. SO they HAVE to make a big splash with free agents. They need no fewer than two good bats added to that lineup.

""Because you and I have no idea who will be available in free agency next year."

Try this: http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2001/05/potential-free-agents-for-2011.html"

So the 2011 free agent list is locked on November 17, 2009? Hopefully most of us realize that at least some of Mauer, Lee, Crawford, Lee, Beckett, Halladay, etc. are going to sign extensions prior to reaching free agency.

Let Molina walk. He's on the decline and has to be the slowest on the basepaths in all of baseball. Those years crouching behind the plate are catching up with him. If Penny is being that unreasonable, there are quite a few alternative options out there for us to look at. As far as Uribe goes, as soon as the NL starts throwing him anything but fastballs, he will revert back to the Uribe of old that was hitting low .200's in the AL. A slider or curveball in the dirt and you'll see him swinging around in circles.

Whatever Brian Sabean does, Giants fans are sure to regret it within a year or two. That's just the way it is with Sabean. His penchant for collecting hitters past their prime totally detracts from the club's impressive array of pitching talent.

i think i remember cameron literally crying over the martinez incident hah

what sabean will do and should do are 2 different things. Sabean should look to add a big bat. the only realistic way to do this is via trade. the first question that needs to be answered is if they are going to try to sign both Cain and Lincecum. If not, then trade one of the two for a power bat. if you are, then you need to sign them to extentions this offseason ANDgo after a difference maker like Bay or Holliday in Free Agency.

What Sabean WILL do is something different. We are going to be lucky i we see Nick Johnson at 1B and Mark DeRosa in LF this season. Sabean is bad with free agent deals and even worse with trades. How this guy got an extention is beyond me.

Or did I read that incorrectly? Does Uribe expect a 2 yr. deal at 14.25 mill? If he does he's on crack.

^If there is a juicer in the middle of the lineup (and some speed at the top of the lineup - no matter how bad the .OBP), Dusty Baker would like to be the coach.

Roberty is another Dodger fan that wants the Giants to lose. If the Giants lose makes you happy, that is fine.

@ Kinsm

No, you did not read that correctly. All of the offers you suggested are fabricated, because they are not in the article.

@ Gary

Please stop spouting that nonsense about Barnes and Alderson getting us someone like Fielder or VMart. It has been well documented that Fielder wasn't going anywhere, especially for a couple of prospects, and Cleveland was asking for Cain in a VMart trade. You aren't involved in trade talks, so you don't know who could've been traded for who, and all the evidence is to the contrary to your line of thinking.

It's pretty simple really, Trade for Uggla (Conor Gillaspie, Nick Noonan, Brandon Crawford, and Clayton Tanner will do the trick), sign Nick Johnson (Great defensive 1B. Gets on base ALOT! But also gets hurt alot, so he'll probably be cheap. Still, the reward is higher than the actual risk), hope to God that Matt Holliday or Jason Bay sign as well (Although, not sure if Jason Bay doesn't really want to play in the Bay area. Haha! Get it?). And if not Xavier Nady should be your fall-back. Trade Renteria, that would allow Emmanuel Burriss to start at shortstop. Last but not least sign one cheap reliever with late inning expirience. Someone like Brett Myers or Kevin Gregg. That's a championship contender, I think. Especially with that rotation. I'm not even a Giants fan (Go Marlins!), and I would be excited for you guys!

Maybe you should go for Cody Ross instead? Or you could move Freddy Sanchez to shortstop (or CF?) and keep Uggla at 2nd. But Uggla definitely cannot play third. If he could the Marlins would have moved them over by now. He doesn't have enough arm strength.

Something Boch should have done all year in 2009, Uribe at 3rd full time and Pablo at first.

Bay or Nady and Johnson is probably what Giants fans will get. While Nady and Johnson aren't the big sticks everybody wants the're proven hitters that can take a pitch or two. In Johnsons case he's one of the best hitter's in baseball at working a count.

Did I mention he is a super-utility player as well. More than capable of spelling Andy LaRoche/Pedro Alvarez at 3rd. Come on Neal and FC...make this happen.

"If Sabean hadn't wasted so much money on Barry Zito (worst signing ever?) he could have made a run at Pujols next season, because lets face it, he doesn't know how to put together a winning team without a giant juice freak in the middle of his lineup. "

So for you a realistic scenario is Pujols actually reaching free agency and then on top of that, the Giants outbidding the Mets and Red Sox for his services?

I'm a Dodger fan who enjoys watching the Giants lose. That being said, the Giants clearly need offense. They have the best pitching staff in the league, IMHO, but you have to have guys that hit. I see Lincecum continuing to pitch well, but not so sure about Cain, Zito and Sanchez.

I don't think Bay is a possibility, just because what you're paying Zito, Rowand and Renteria has limited you, and Lincecum being arb-eligible this year is going to be a huge raise. Giants might inquire on Bay but would be outbid.

I'd offer arb to Molina, get in on Beltre, because you could move Panda to first and add Beltre's bat. Could use a good hitting outfielder as well.

As far as Penny, you could get as good of a pitcher for a lot less than what he's asking for.

But here's hoping you finish no better than 2nd!!

Not realisticat at all. The first guy the Rays would ask for is Buster Posey for starters because they desperately need catching. Not that Carlos Peńa isn't worth a top catching prospect, he has hit for over 40+ homers and 100+ RBI the past 2 seasons. And he's great defensively. But I don't think you guys would want to give up Posey.

JPizzle, thanks for your interests in our Giants, but if you think we are sending four, count them four, top prospects for Uggla, you all are something to much herb down in South Florida. Suggesting he plays left field is also comical. Thanks for the support, but Nick Johnson is a nice fit for a playoff team in need of a veteran first basemen, that is not the Giants. Nady will be a disaster in SF, Carlos Pena would hit 15 homers as a Giant. Those that dont follow the Giants all that closely, they are in need of a right-handed power bat...any talk of a lefty hitter is not happening. #1 need is a power bat, but Bay or Holliday or not likely to come here. So a true leadoff hitter then becomes our most important priority and Chone Figgins fits the bill...Blalock on the cheap is a more likely outcome.

Okay...I have too submit my suggestion and I'm surprised no one has. First, I would not go after DeRosa, Cameron or Beltre. There are two everyday players I would go after and if you got them, the Giants would win the division. I would sign Chone Figgins for 3B and be my leadoff guy with the signing of Holliday or Bay too play LF. You can always bring in a veteran C for one year just like Baltimore did this year. Tons of C's out there too put in the 8 hole. As far as Pitchers...someone suggested Brett Myers...I actually like that idea as a 5th starter though, not in the BP as well as try and resign the Big Unit for one more year. Let Molina, Penny and Uribe walk if they want. My ideal lineup would look like this:

3B: Figgins
2B: Sanchez
RF: Schierholtz
1B: Sandoval
LF: Bay/Holliday
SS: Renteria
CF: Rowand
C: Posey/Veteran C
P:

SP: Lincecum
SP: Cain
SP: Zito
SP: Johnson/Myers
SP: Sanchez

Bench: Ishikawa, Lewis, Torres, Garko, Backup C, UTL INF (who I don't know)

For all the people who don't think the Giants have $$$ think again. They have there own TV contract just like the Yankees/Mets/Cubs...they can and will spend the $$$...They do every offseason...look for them too make a big signing this offseason...they know they need a big bat and will get one!!

yes, we Gigantes fans offered the Marlins fans that trade. we're now waiting for their response on whether the trade will be accepted or declined. after that, the trade probably still won't happen and we can go on living our lives.

on a personal note, please stop suggesting the Giants pick up people like Beltre, Cameron, Nady... why not trade for Gary Mathews jr while you're at it. we need to add a few outstanding at bats. not veteran all around players who are prone to cold streaks at the plate. we have that covered

Posted by: FreeBarryLamar | November 17, 2009 at 02:32 AM

So you know somewhere we can readily find a few outstanding bats? If your arguement was to not waste money on guys that dont play into building a championship team for years to come i would agree. But the kind of hitters like Bonds, ARod, Pujols, Fielder or Howard dont aren't easy to find, let alone aquire.

With that said IF you can sign a guy like Nady or Cameron for cheap without committing to more than 2 years, then it would be a smart move for this team unless they're going to make a serious run at Holliday (which i dont see happening, although i want them to). We're still a couple years from seeing guys like Neal, Kieschnick, Crawford or Chris Dominguez making an impact on this team (if they even pan out).

So yeah its nice to be in the psoition to say we just need a few outstanding bats, but actually pulling that off is way harder to actually do.

I really don't see why any team would want Lewis and I'm a Giants fan

he was given his chance to be the everyday LF and he was pretty bad not only at the plate but also in LF on defense

he HAD huge potential but his chance is pretty much gone now and he'll probably be cut by the Giants this upcoming season since we already have a lot of outfielders

to get Uggla we'd have to trade a younger pitcher like Clayton Tanner and Conor Gillaspie and someone else like Ehire Adrianza or Nick Noonan because the Marlins want prospects

the fact that Lewis is still on the team and didn't get optioned this year is mind boggling. he didn't start in many games and still had 84 strikeouts that's more than Sandoval and Molina had. I still remember when he was being promoted like the next big thing in AT&T park because he was playing left field and he had at least 2 strikeouts per game. I think he's a bust if any team will take him for cash do it but but he's like Marvin Benard no one wants him or he'll be released like Jeffrey Hammonds.

As for Uggla try trading Burriss and Noonan for him. I still think theres a chance Bay could come to SF,Holliday isn't coming he didn't like the Bay Area plus he's a Boras client last time we dealt with him we got Zito.

Sabs should try and work out a trade for Adam Dunn and Josh Willingham... Im sure we got the prospects to land those guys.
Getting them would def. fill the holes we need.
I think a deal around J. sanchez, F.Lewis and a couple of prospects in the likes of Henry Sosa and Thomas Neal or Wendell Fairley can get it done.

The Baseball intelligence being displayed here by some of you people is impressive. Or not. You can want this bat and that bat all you want but here is the truth the only bats that come to SF have to be overpaid. Signing free agents in SF is more often than not going to be a losing cause unless you get a Carl Crawford or a BJ Upton. You dont want a Holliday or a Bay. You just dont. The ROI on those guys is not worth the investment.

Also stop talking about Zito and all the money he cost and Rowand and all the money he cost. Because almost everyone was happy when it was done. Also we know that was not Sabean's decision it was Magowan's and that is the real reason why he is not with the team anymore. The Giants are a handicapped team money wise under the guise of the stadium payment. Once that is done and gone lets judge their spending habits.

Posey will replace and superceed the offense that Molina gave us last year. He automatically becomes at least the third best hitter on the team if not the second.

"Also stop talking about Zito and all the money he cost and Rowand and all the money he cost. Because almost everyone was happy when it was done."

Seriously?

http://www.everyjoe.com/knucklecurve/giants-sign-rowand/

http://www.everyjoe.com/knucklecurve/giants-sign-zito/

In my recollection, people that had a clue were generally uneasy with both signings.

I would like to see Penny and Uribe come back. Penny was throwing 97 mph. There aren't very many hard throwers out there. Uribe hit 7 hr in september.

I know this post is dead, but seriously, have any of you actually watched the panda play first? I don't understand it either, but he's far better at third, so if you're not a giants fan and don't watch them regularly, please stop!!!! We need a true first baseman. Tim for cy tomorrow!!

@ John Sugden

"The Giants were just under .500. That means that if they sign a Type A free agent they'll lose their first round pick."

Did I miss something, or weren't the Giants OVER .500?