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Kurkjian's Latest: Yankees, Dodgers, Chapman

Tim Kurkjian runs through some of the top storylines to watch this offseason for his latest article on ESPN.com.  Here's a breakdown of some of the topics discussed...

  • Kurkjian believes the Yankees will let Johnny Damon and Hideki Matsui walk this winter and will "consider" free agents Jason Bay and Matt Holliday.
  • Kurkjian also thinks Holliday is "perfect for Fenway Park," and someone who will be pursued if the Red Sox aren't able to reach an agreement with Bay.
  • The McCourts' divorce could have a serious impact on the way Los Angeles does business this offseason.  As Kurkjian writes, "The Dodgers need to acquire at least one topflight starting pitcher, but there is already speculation that they will not have enough money to re-sign left-hander Randy Wolf."
  • The Cubs won't be able to trade Milton Bradley without picking up most of the two years, $20MM left on his contact.
  • The Yanks are likely to re-sign Andy Pettitte for at least one year.
  • Kurkjian spoke to one MLB general manager who thinks Cuban left-hander Aroldis Chapman has "a ways to go before he's ready to pitch in the major leagues, phyiscally and emotionally."
  • The Angels are expected to be aggressive in trying to re-sign Chone Figgins, but he'll have plenty of other suitors.  Kurkjian lists the White Sox and Orioles as possibilities.  We've heard the Cubs might also have interest.


Comments

Didn't think the Orioles were pursuing Figgins. I doubt they will be serious contenders for him. But could you imagine a lineup that consisted of both Brian Roberts and Chone Figgins at the top of the Orioles lineup along with Adam Jones, Nick Markakis, Nolan Reimold, Luke Scott, and Matt Wieters? That would be one heck of a lineup right there.

Yeah, the only way they would be interested is if Figgins was willing to take a short term deal (1-2years)...most reports suggest he will be looking for around 5 years, in which case he would just be blocking Josh Bell at 3B. I'd say there is a 0% chance the O's persue Chone Figgins.

Also, interesting report on Chapman. I saw the O's as serious contenders, but now I can't see them spending 40-60MM on someone who "has a ways to go before he's ready to pitch in the major leagues, phyiscally and emotionally." They need someone who can be in the contribute in the rotation right away.

yanks r gonna sign damon i bet

i love what the o's are doing and i cant wait till all of their pieces blossom and they can contend for a playoff spot. but i dont see figgins fitting in with josh bell waiting.

I don't see the Yankees signing either Holliday or Bay. I doubt they will commit to anyone long-term this winter, and they'll save the money for a run at Mauer next off-season. Not to mention they'll have Jeter and Mariano to bring back after next year. Resign one of Damon or Matsui and pursue someone like Mike Cameron. All short term, 1 or 2 year deals this winter.

I can't see Figgins as a fit on a team that's got Brian Roberts and Adam Jones in the fold. Yes, the O's need 3B help, but paying big for it isn't a good idea.

And, Brandon Snyder and Josh Bell? O's don't look likely at all.

I disagree with Tim. I think the Yankees will bring one of the two back

Dodger Fans knew this was coming and I can care less about signing any FA this offseason. Just sign the kids.

The Cubs better have intrest in Figgins!! Ricketts has already said that he'd like for the Cubs to stay in the top 3 payrolls in baseball. He could accomplish that by signing Figgins to play SS, and Crisp to play CF. I think if the cubs were able to convince figgins to play SS, that would make the Cubs infield one of the best in baseball ! Imagine a lineup like this

Figgins -SS
Fukudome -RF
Lee -1st
Ramirez -3rd
Soriano -LF
Theriot -2nd
Crisp -CF
Soto -C
Pitcher

*Trade Bradley for some type of pitching
What do you think ?

Oh that article is great, trade Billingsley because Joe Torre did not let him start. Brilliant. By that logic, Hudson should retire.

You cannot sign Figgins and expect him to play SS 130 games a year.

If Figins comes to the South Side to play LF next year then Sox are probably the 3rd best team in the MLB behind the Yankees and Red Sox. I think the Sox should also bring back Thome because they really have to left handed power hitters on the team. Look at this Lineup if Chone is signed and they bring back Jum Thome:

1. Chone Figgins LF
2. Gordon Beckham 2B
3. Carlos Quentin RF
4. Jim Thome DH
5. Paul Konerko 1B
6. Alex Rios CF
7. A.J. Pierznski C
8. Mark Teahen 3B
9. Alexie Ramirez SS

Bench
1. Jayson Nix
2. Mark Kotsay
3. Tyler Flowers
4. Brent Lillibridge (because of his speed)

Rotation

1. Mark Buerhle (Ace)
2. Jake Peavy
3. John Danks
4. Gavin Floyd
5. Freddy Garcia/ Dan Hudson

Bullpen

Closer - Bobby Jenks
Set Up - Matt Thornton
Set Up - Tony Pena
MR- Scott Linebrink
MR- Jeff Marquez
LR- DJ Carrasco
LR- Dan Hudson

what are the teams weaknesses ?

If Figins comes to the South Side to play LF next year then Sox are probably the 3rd best team in the MLB behind the Yankees and Red Sox.

what makes the red sox the second best team. what cause they play in the overrated al east? how can you not not say the phils are the second best team.

Because the Philles have 1 good pitcher, im not saying that Hammels cant be better or that JAy Happ can't have another solid year. red Sox have a solid lineup, pretty good rotation and enough in their farm to either trade for a big name or just let then grow. Red Sox are better than the Philles i have no doubt...

1. Gardner / AJax cf
2. Jeter ss
3. Texeira 1b
4. Arod 3b
5. Matsui dh
6. Posada c
7. Nady rf
8. Cano 2b
9. Swish/ Melk lf

CC
Aj
Andy
Hughes
Wang ( Joba until wang returns)

Mo
Joba
Robertson
Marte
Coke
Aceves

There's been conflicting reports regarding the Dodgers payroll flexibility, so I'm not sure what to think just yet.

But yeah, getting the kids contracts needs to be the top priority.

If we can't sign any big names, maybe the trade route would be the way to go. Not endorsing this idea, but aybe another Casey Blake-type deal (trading our top prospects to get the other team to pay the player we get's salary). Not sure, off hand what pitchers are available.

What about Dan Uggla? Best defense (pitching) is a good offense?

to wiseguy: i don't see damon going anywhere but back to the yankees. From what he said, he woill prbably take a little discount to stay. They wont bring back x, and they will probably sign a pitcher. No big time contracts though

"You cannot sign Figgins at SS and expect him to play 130 games"

Why not ?

Figgins would be best fit in the South Side of Chicago

Bringing one of Damon/Matsui back, especially Damon, makes a lot of sense. Spending on Bay/Holliday really does not.

"If we can't sign any big names, maybe the trade route would be the way to go. Not endorsing this idea, but aybe another Casey Blake-type deal (trading our top prospects to get the other team to pay the player we get's salary). Not sure, off hand what pitchers are available.

What about Dan Uggla? Best defense (pitching) is a good offense?

Posted by: pavilionbum | November 07, 2009 at 02:22 PM"

If you seen my posts on this site it would tell you I want nothing to do with Uggla. I hope they don't destroy the farm and try to bring in someone.
If the McCourt's troubles do get really bad then the best thing is too have a young core signed for 3-4 years each and have a very good, up and coming farm system.

Figgins has GG defense at 3rd.
why is everyone so enamored with moving his position?

I say Yanks keep Matsui over Damon. Matsui pays for himself with his popularity in Japan. 28 hr in 450ab is pretty impressive on 2 bad knees.

I like the OF of Swisher/ Gardner/ Nady
Solid defensively + Offense

If I'm the Yanks with a ton of cash coming of the books I go out and get:

Holliday
Lackey
Pettite
Hairston Jr

All those should come at an an anual cost of about 45-50M which is certainly doable. By not signing a DH they can withstand long contracts to position players.

1. Jeter SS
2. Cabrera CF
3. Teixeira 1B
4. A-Rod 3B
5. Holliday LF
6. Posada C
7. Cano 2B
8. Swisher RF
9. Hairston/Gardner/Cervelli OF/INF/C

So you rotate your stars through DH and let their defensive sub hit 9th.

Then your rotation is great with:

CC
AJ
Lackey
Pettite
Gaudin/Joba

Again, just what I would do as an outsider.

Why does everybody think that Chapman is going to be getting what his agent is asking? We saw Boras asking 50M for Strasburg. He got 17M.

There's only one GM in baseball who thinks that Chapman is MLB ready, and that's Dayton Moore. No other GM with any form of brain thinks Chapman is MLB ready. Nobody is going to pay upwards of 50M for a guy who is going to chill in AA next year.

Figgins has GG defense at 3rd.
why is everyone so enamored with moving his position?

Posted by: Joey | November 07, 2009 at 02:36 PM
--------------

I think the thing that's always been most intriguing and valuable about Figgins was his ability to play multiple positions well. As a 3B only, he seems to lack power for the prototypical 3B. I think the Yanks would jump all over him if he was willing to do that again.

"Why does everybody think that Chapman is going to be getting what his agent is asking? We saw Boras asking 50M for Strasburg. He got 17M."

Major difference was lack of competition. Stephen Strausburg on the open market would have gotten $50M. Chapman wasn't drafted so multiple teams can bid on him, completely changes the dynamics.

I'm fine with DeWitt or DeJesus at 2B for the Dodgers, but adding Uggla's bat to the middle of the lineup would be nice to see, too.

Ned wasn't willing to sell the farm for Roy Halladay, so I doubt he'd do it for anyone else (even if part of their salary was covered)..

I really can't imagine teams forking over $50 mil on Chapman when guys like Igawa, Contreras and Dice-K have all had mixed results. From what I heard it would be a mistake for any team to expect him to go straight to the majors.

"I really can't imagine teams forking over $50 mil on Chapman when guys like Igawa, Contreras and Dice-K have all had mixed results. From what I heard it would be a mistake for any team to expect him to go straight to the majors.

Posted by: YanksFanSince78 | November 07, 2009 at 02:51 PM"

Makes sense, that was a lot of money for those dudes.. Money that you give for top pitchers, none of them have been top pitchers.

Maybe its just me but everything stated in this article is pretty much obvious. Kurkjian isn't exactly going out on a ledge here or anything by saying what everyone already knows.

I see some people penciling Xavier Nady into the Yankees lineup, he's going to hit free agency and I can't imagine the Yankees bringing him back. Swisher is a better player anyway. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Yankees chase after Holliday though there is a lot of talk that they won't be a big player in free agency this year. They are more likely resign Damon and let Matsui go. Damon's services would come at a discount from last year, Andy Pettite is likely to get arbitration that will put his contract somewhere around $12-14M for next year. I think they go after someone like Harden or Sheets with an outside shot at going after Lackey.

C: Cervelli
1B: Teixeira
2B: Cano
3B: Rodriguez
SS: Jeter
LF: Damon
CF: Cabrera
RF: Swisher
DH: Posada

"The Cubs won't be able to trade Milton Bradley without picking up most of the two years, $20MM left on his contact."

Then you hear opposite reports. It will be interesting. Sure, if they wanted to trade Bradley for some nobody prospects or whatever. Then they would have to eat all or about all of it. If the Cubs were taking on a bad deal in return (which is what they would have to do), I can't see them taking on all of Bradley's money AND the other team's bad money. It would make no sense. Then just release him and be done with it. Do not waste too much time and get bogged down over Bradley. They won't release him though.

What I would Make the Yankees look like come 2010:

SS-Jeter(R)
DH-Damon(L)
1B-Teixeira(S)
3B-Rodriguez(R)
LF-Holliday(R)
C-Posada(S)
RF-Swisher(S)
2B-Cano(L)
CF-Crisp / Cabrera(S)

SP1-Sabathia(L)
SP2-Burnett(R)
SP3-Wang(R)
SP4-Pettitte(L)
SP5-Phil Hughes(R)

Bullpen
Mariano Rivera (R)
Joba Chamberlain (R)
David Robertson (R)
Damaso Marte (L)
Brian Bruney(R)
Phil Coke(L)
Alfredo Aceves(R)

What about trading DeJesus for an arm? (not saying we should, just stirring the pot a little). Furcal is locked in at SS for at least 2 more years. I'm comfortable with going into the year with DeWitt at 2B (although he's far from a sure thing).

Who could use a good, young middle infielder? (besides everyone)

Holliday and Lackey will be Mets. Period.

At least, they should be if Omar has a brain (which i question).

If anyone will be the starting catcher it would be morales and cervilli. If damon doesn't come back, they can make a trade for pierre. with manny picking up his option, that signals them trading pierre as a definite. pierre is younger and faster and only has 2 yrs left on his contract. he can still hit and run the bases. with him as our DH and at the, top of the order, watch out. By getting holliday, our outfield will go from being the worst to being average. if we can snag a mike cameron and platoon him in RF with swisher, our oufield gets even better. wang is being non-tendered and might accept a minor league contract. for me i dont see him getting better, the yanks should jus trade him or release him. we should pic up duscher or lackey for a backend rotation. btw lackey is only a year older than wang!

Oh yea one more other thing, one user stated to hold off the money and save it for mauer. Thats a big IF buddy. he might stay in minnesota. Besides a lot of people are talking about his size and that he wont be staying as a catcher for his entire career.

DH - Pierre
SS - Jeter
1st - Tex
3B - AROD
LF - Holliday
C - Posoda
2B - Cano
RF - Cameron/Swisher
CF - Cabrera/Gardner

*not cervilli

Juan Pierre as your DH really? Do you know what DH stands for? Designated HITTER, and Juan Pierre doesn't do much hitting.

Juan Pierre as your DH really? Do you know what DH stands for? Designated HITTER, and Juan Pierre doesn't do much hitting.

Posted by: kay wizz | November 07, 2009 at 03:29 PM


He hit .301 with 30RBIS playing limited role for the dodgers..

I wouldn't say trading Pierre is a given by any means, but I'm sure Ned will look into it.

What pitcher could the Yanks offer? (it'd have to be for a pitcher)

Pierre as DH? LOL

Isn't he going to be non-tendered anyway?

I guess if it meant unloading Pierre's contact it could happen.

Whats his health status right now?

IF and hopefully Figgins finds himself on the White Sox, he will play 3B and Teahen will play in either LF or RF.

I would also see Johnny Damon as plan "B" and Coco Crisp as a good plan "C"

"I really can't imagine teams forking over $50 mil on Chapman when guys like Igawa, Contreras and Dice-K have all had mixed results."

But you're forgetting he's could be one of the top young pitchers of all time. He's practically a sure thing!

I don't actually believe that, but that's what it really comes down to. Think of it like a lottery ticket with better odds than the state lottery, an expensive ticket, but a lottery ticket. In the end it comes down to how much faith do they really have in him. That said, yeah, no matter which team signs him should keep him in the minors for a year and try to integrate him to life in the US or Canada.

Why is everyone laughin at the thought of pierre a DH.. the only reasonn why damon's RBI has been up is because he was hitting in the 2 hole. if you look at his 07' year when he was lead off, he hit .270AVG 63RBI'S, 93Runs, 27SB and struck out 92 times. Pierre's numbers were: .293/41RBI's/96Runs/64SB/37SO. Other than the RBI's those were good numbers.

"Major difference was lack of competition. Stephen Strausburg on the open market would have gotten $50M. Chapman wasn't drafted so multiple teams can bid on him, completely changes the dynamics."

The biggest difference, also, is that Strasburg is MUCH more polished, and we know more about him, scouting and video wise. Chapman is relatively unknown. We've got video on Strasburg dating all the way back to high school.

He isn't a typical DH but if we were going to bring back DAMON he was going to be a DH anyway. Why not get pierre instead?

I could see the Yanks going for Pierre as part of an OF/DH rotation, but not sure if they would do it while picking up so many other OFs( Holliday, Cameron, Damon)

2 of those I can see, but not sure about all 3.

Well, Damon's a better hitter. I guess I'd make more sense to put the speedy, durable Pierre in LF, and have the aging Damon DH. Like I said, it'd all be part of a rotation with the other OFs. I could see if happening, but doubt it will

Is Wang going to be healthy any time soon?

pavilionbum :

They would only sign holliday and pierre. if damon couldnt be signed.

ah, I see, miss read. If they got Holiday for LF I think they'd be better off going for Damon to DH.

I guess for my Dodgers sake I'll just hope they don't get Holliday! Pierre in LF, Damon at DH

kay wizz is right, and there is no need for the yankees to go after pierre. When people say they want to get more athletic and younger they dont meen bringing in guys getting close to 40 who no longer know how to hit. i see the yankees going after holliday, and maybe sheets. I hope Austin Jackson ia going to be ready soon, it would end the outfield problem if they also got Holliday.

"He hit .301 with 30RBIS playing limited role for the dodgers.."

key word is limited. From 2005-2008 (in which he was a full time player) he batted .276, .292, .293, and .283 while his OBP sat between .320 and .330. He just doesn't fit into the Yankees lineup. I would think only the teams desperate for speed would consider Pierre, and even then his contract is huge for a guy whose only weapon is speed. Brett Gardner is much more valuable at the moment considering what he makes and his ability to play CF.

As for Matsui and Damon, I honestly think they are both back for 2010. Matsui's bat look great in the second half and playoffs and is a straight up rock in the lineup. Who else is going to be able to bat behind Arod without breaking the bank? People forget last year that Cashman had to do everything in his power to get the Yankees brass to shell out the money for Teixeira. Neither Holliday or Bay stand a chance on coming to the Bronx. Of course it would be moronic for the Yankees to admit. The Yankees are going to flirt with both Bay and Holliday until they sign, but its not because they are seriously considering them, its to drive up the price for Boston.

The DH spot would be nice to have to rest players but it is not crucial. The only player you need to rest on the Yankees really would be Damon. Arod will come into the season healthy and Jeter and Posada looked fine playing every game at their respective positions. Posada will not be splitting catching duties with Cervelli or Molina....they are both good defensively but their bats don't play on an everyday basis.

The most noise I expect the Yanks to make this offseason is on a setup man. I'm crossing my fingers the Braves don't offer Mike Gonzalez arbitration. I am also looking forward to a full season of Mark Melancon, the kid has been a beast throughout his college career and in the minors, and I think he is ready to be a key part of the bullpen for 2010.

as a giants fan it is good news hearing that the dodgers won't even have enough money to sign randy wolf. i just hope they'd have to trade Matt Kemp. i think he is possibly the best CF in the national league if not the MLB. i hope they have to trade all their young talent who is up for arbitration.

Uh, Pierre's 32. But yeah, he's never been a great hitter. (although he had a respectable .308/.365/.392 line last year with 30 SB)

yep, Dodgers are dealing them all. Total rebuilding mode for a teams already built on guys in their mid-20s.

Pierre iS 32 LOL. He'll be 33 next year. by the time is contract is up he'll be only 35. Not an age of sumone close to 40. For someone who can stil swipe 30 to 50 bags a year i'll take him anyday.

Oh yeah, 30 RBI's is for sure the production you want out of you DH...

DH is a power position. Its supposed to be a guy who hits 20+ HR, drives in 80 runs at LEAST. Pierre has never driven in more than 55 runs and never hit more than 3 homers in a season. You could get 3 HR and 50 RBI's from almost any below average player for the league minimum if you give them 500 at-bats at DH. I think its hilarious that you guys actually think JUAN PIERRE is a legit DH option.

'If were going to bring back damon to DH, why not pierre instead?'

Because Damon is 5 times the hitter Pierre is. Juan Pierre has 13 CAREER homeruns, Damon hit 24 this year. The only thing in any aspect of the game Pierre brings is he is faster. Both have TERRIBLE arms in the outfield, Damon drives in more runs, hits more homers, scores about the same amount of runs. Damon is by far the better player. If you don't bring back Damon, you bring back Matsui, if you don;t bring him back, you look into other options. If Juan Pierre is the DH on opening day for ANY team in baseball, that team can pretty much kiss the season goodbye, becuase that means their offseason plans failed MISERABLY.

Yeah, he's not really a DH (although it doesn't HAVE to be a power position, depends on how the rest of your lineup is set up)

I could see Pierre as a LF, though.

I didn't say not to bring back damon. but if he signs else where who else would hit in ur number 1 or 2 hole that can get on base?

Matsui wont come back cuz he can't play the outfield anymore. Even if he is the DH, guys like AROD and posada will need days off. if so, then u loose matsui in that sense.

I wouldnt put pierre nor damon in the OF. thats y holliday will be signed. who else can play LF for us?

The Yankees had the best offense in the game this year with Matsui and Damon in it. It was built on patient hitters with high OBP, power, and maybe no speed burners (outside of Gardner that is) but had plenty of guys who have the potential to steal 20-30 bags a year. You want to revamp the offense, get rid of Matsui and Damon, bring in Pierre, and change the style of their offensive attack........all this a season AFTER they had the highest scoring offense in baseball. Good thinking.

Dodger Fans knew this was coming and I can care less about signing any FA this offseason. Just sign the kids."

I agree, somewhat. Kids 1st. There is no one on the FA market that is worth 5/90+, for pitchers.

"If we can't sign any big names, maybe the trade route would be the way to go. Not endorsing this idea, but aybe another Casey Blake-type deal (trading our top prospects to get the other team to pay the player we get's salary). Not sure, off hand what pitchers are available.

What about Dan Uggla? Best defense (pitching) is a good offense?"

If we trade another top prospect for an average player, I will personally cut off McCourt's nuts..

However, one thing I would see is a Uggla/JJ package. I know the Marlins don't want to do it, but we do match up pretty well.

A few days ago on the Offseason Outlook, I posted a potential trade for both that included Lindblom(who could close games today), Withrow(who I thought was only going to be a #2, but actually has ace potential. In case your wondering, i went to the guy who writes MOKM. Then there were a bunch of other guys, including DeWitt(2b/3B), Elbert, C/B prospect, Paul, Hu, Delmonico, McDonald. FYI, all the guys I listed after Lindblom and Withrow was the package that a Marlins fan thought would get JJ and Uggla. I said it was too light, and added a closer and ace... thoughts???

For the Yanks to get Pierre wouldnt be a stretch. Yes, he isnt a usual DH, but as Jeter gets older and if Damon leaves, who's the speed? Pierre could be your LF and 1st hitter or DH with Damon in LF and add a dimesion that this Yankees team didnt really have, speed at the top....

"What about trading DeJesus for an arm? (not saying we should, just stirring the pot a little). Furcal is locked in at SS for at least 2 more years. I'm comfortable with going into the year with DeWitt at 2B (although he's far from a sure thing)."

I'd be willing to include him in a deal for JJ/Uggla, if neccesary. He is a SS, but could easily play 2B. I've personally been dreaming of a DP combo of Gordon and DeJesus...

Pierre is healthy and isnt going to be non tendered. He'd be our 4th OF again, and if we couldnt trade him, we'd basically tell him to shut the hell up and get ready to play. (if you don't remember, he was complaining at the end of this year about not playing enough. But honestly, he signed with the Dodgers and we had Ethier and Kemp in the minors. What did he expect???

as a giants fan it is good news hearing that the dodgers won't even have enough money to sign randy wolf. i just hope they'd have to trade Matt Kemp. i think he is possibly the best CF in the national league if not the MLB. i hope they have to trade all their young talent who is up for arbitration.

This is just a dumb comment. Kemp will be traded right before Pujols or Longoria

i think the yankees will at least bring back damon. maybe a 1 year 10-12M with an option? matsui will only get 1 if he is resigned. conisdering the weak OF free agent class next year what will the yankees do in 2011?

"Matsui wont come back cuz he can't play the outfield anymore. Even if he is the DH, guys like AROD and posada will need days off. if so, then u loose matsui in that sense.

I wouldnt put pierre nor damon in the OF. thats y holliday will be signed. who else can play LF for us?"

Well when Posada needs time off he will be sitting on the bench like most catchers do when they have the day off. The Yanks have the luxury of doing that with a premium hitter at DH like Matsui. And who plays left field? How about Damon, Nady, Melky, Gardner or Hairston.

You do not need an all star at every position to have a good offense, case in point the Yankees of 2009 with the highest scoring offense starting guys like Melky and Swisher.

And if Pierre did come to the Yankees the closest he would come to hitting at the top of order would be batting in the 9 spot. His OBP sits at roughly .320-.330 every year. Why would you want somebody with a horrendous OBP batting 1st or 2nd when you have Tex and Arod, 2 of the best power hitters in the game, batting behind him.

Please stop arguing for Pierre, you thought you had a good idea for the Yankees but it was actually awful when it was dissected by Yankee fans who actually know a little something about baseball. Best be on your way to your next great revelation.

This Yankee stuff aside, I think Pierre is finally tradeable now that he has just 2 years on his contract and he's coming off a good year. It'll be interesting to see if anyone bites.

This is off topic a little but has there been any indication whether the red sox prefer holliday or bay? most sights say "If they dont sign bay". Does that mean bay is the first choice?

yes it is pretty clear bay is the #1 priority

The Yankees will sign one of Damon or Matsui. The might possibly sign both and thats their signings this offseason. Similar to the '08 offseason I do not think they will sign anyone big. Then in the '10 offseason they will throw huge money at Halladay.

JUAN PIERRE ISNT A DH! Not in any way shape or form will he be on the Yankees in 2010. Not as a DH, not as a left fielder, not as a bat boy not as a hot dog vender. If they want Juan Pierre production, they can just start Brett Gardner full time, because they are basically the exact same player, except Gardner at least hit 3 homeruns this year to Pierre's zero. The Yankees aren't going to take on Pierre's horrible contract that the Dodgers should have never given him at the time. He didn;t make sense for them then, he still doesn't.

And to answer your statement, the Yankees hardly relied on speed this year. Brett Gardner was their baserunning threat, and he was coming off the bench. Yeah Jeter stole bases, and Damon had twelve, but its not like they generated runs off stolen bases. And that isn't new, its been like that for about a decade now. Speed isn't a huge part of their game.

So get this ridiculous Juan Pierre idea out of your head, because he will not be on the Yankees next year, I can assure you that.

Ysnkees are going to get Holliday, they will have the same tatics as last year with Teixeira. Wait till everybody bids, then Boras and Cashman, finish the deal. I expect them to get a starter too, Lackey makes sense here, he wants to win now, Yankees his best chance.

kay, yes, I know that the Yankees used no speed last year. They got really lucky that Damon had a career year and Jeter had a resurection year, of sorts. What happens if Damon doesn't hit(or come back) and this was Jeter's resurection year? Then, Tex and Arod get to come up with no one on.

Im speaking as both a Dodgers and Yankees fan. Pierre does fit. The Dodger's want tp get rid of him and the Yankees could use another guy to hit in front of Tex/Arod.

And dont use HRs to judge power when talking about a guy like Gardner. He played in some of the most hitter friendly parks in history... While Pierre was playing in the desert.

lakersdodgersyankees4life

Juan Pierre does not fit with the Yankees. Your arguement was completely hyperthetical. What Ifs are not good for an arguement. Why would the Yankees want Pierre anyway. Hes owed over 10,000,000 for a .250 hitter with speed. If the Yankees are gonna spend money on anyone besides Damon for Left Field it will be Holliday.

Resurrection? .300 average with an injured wrist all year in 2008 is just SO awful. The resurrection was more in the field than at the plate. The media made too much out him declining when we really wasn't. There are hundreds of major league players who would take Jeter's 2008 season as a down year and run with it.

And Juan Pierre and his whopping career .348 OBP, including .331 and .327 OBP's before this year is just a SURE bet to get on base. For sure the guy you want as your DH. The Yankees don't need Juan Pierre in any way shape or form. Especially at that ridiculous price. And I wasn't using power as an example for Pierre/Gardner. And your point of him hitting in a hitter-friendly park is irrelevant because he hit one homer in Citi Field and one in Toronto, both bigger ball parks, and his other was an inside the park homer. But like I said, that wasn't really a big part of my argument, it was just support for my cause.

Juan Pierre will not be in a Yankee uniform next year. They DO NOT need him. If they called the Dodgers ask for Pierre, LA would tell them they could have him for basically nothing. That how many people DON'T want Juan Pierre. If he is good enough to DH on the World Championship Yankees, why hasn't one of the other 28 teams called the Dodgers to take him off their hands the last 3 years.

Exactly. If Juan Pierre is traded to the Yankees, I will run across Yankee stadium streaking all 81 home games next year.

Does anyone see the yankees grabbing both bay and holliday? and since holliday is a better defender using bay as a DH. i have read some red sox talk that the red sox might have turned him into a dh in 2011 if they resigned him once papi was done. anyone hear anything like this

I'd expect to see the Yankees go after Holliday this offseason. He is the final piece of the yankees puzzle that they need. They should let Matsui walk and have Damon as their DH since Damon could fill the 2nd lineup spot, and he can still bat well and is healthy despite the fact he is aging. Right now, the Yanks pitching rotation looks fine but they should aquire Ben Sheets or Lackey if wang will not be healthy soon.
Other than that, things are looking good for 2010.

1. SS Jeter
2. DH Damon
3. 1B Teixeira
4. 3B Rodriguez
5. LF Holliday
6. 2B Cano
7. C Posada
8. RF Swisher
9. CF Cabrera/Gardner

1.Sabathia
2.Burnett
3.Wang/Sheets/Lackey
4.Pettitte
5.Sheets/Lackey

With this, 2010 looks to be #28

kay, I'm not saying that if Pierre doesnt come to NY that the Yankees wont make the playoffs. What Im saying is that if Damon and Matsui dont come back, it would be better to trade for Pierre than pay well over 100M for Holliday. The Yankees dont need more power. They need a compliment to the Arod/Tex combo. Pierre could be that piece.

And if the Yankees ask about Pierre, they would just take on the contract. We wouldnt ask for anything back. The reason that no other teams have asked is because not many teams have a spot for him to potentially start or are willing to pay him 9M a year. Is he honestly worth 9m, no, espically not to the Dodgers. However, if he is a starter and can get on base and run, and score runs with Arod/Tex knocking him in, he'd bring some value.

He isnt a perfect fit or the savior, but to say there is no way he should go to NYY is a little overboard...

No it is not overboard, because there is no way at all he should go to NY. The Yankees aren't going to take the the contract of someone they have no use for.

If they for some odd reason they can't resign Damon or Matsui, despite the fact they both said they want to stay in NY, then there is still at least 10 better options at DH than bringing on Juan Pierre who isn't even 1% a legit option at DH. Ask every AL General Manager if they'd consider having Juan Pierre as their everyday DH, and they'll all laugh in your face, I promise that. If they can't bring back either one of those two other options are Delgado, Thome, Vlad, Dye, bring back Nady or even bring in Mark DeRosa to be a super utility guy and play everywhere while giving other guys days off. At least DeRosa is productive and would come close to earning a $9 million dollar salary.

And did you completely ignore my OBP stat fact? You say if he can get on in front of them and score, then hes an option. But history shows, he doesn't get on base too much, and when he does its on singles.

Your right, he isn't the perfect fit, or the savior, or a player the Yankees should consider bringing in at ALL. If they wanted someone to produce along the lines of Pierre, just start Gardner at DH, because he'll give you identical or even better production for tenth of the price.

Plus you say they don't need power, if you take away Damon and Matsui, they do need power, thats taking away 52 homeruns from the line-up.

I don't mean to be a complete a$$hole, but the idea of Juan Pierre coming to the Yankees, especially to Dh is completely unneeded and will not even come close to happening. And if does, Brian Cashman needs to be kicked in the balls.

Gardner OR Melky > Pierre
Period.

Look, Im not saying that he should be the 1st option. Or even the 2nd. But if they don't sign Holliday/Bay and Matsui/Damon get better offers than the 1-2 years the Yankees want to give them, and the fact the Yankees dont seem very confident with having Gardner a starter(either LF or CF), then Pierre COULD be an option.

Thats just my take, as both a Dodger and Yankees fan. Who knows, maybe he will once again go to the bunt hits that made him a good player in FL...

I guess we agree to disagree...

Releasing Bradley would be "Plan B". "Plan A" trade Bradley for another bad contract, but the other bad contract is only for 1 yr. So, you get a person like Pat Burrell in return. (Someone who might find lightning in a bottle - like Jim Edmonds.) No more headaches from Bradley's idiocracy on and off the field for 2 yrs. And if the Cubs are lucky, maybe a mediocre prospect or two. (Of course with the mediocre prospect, the Cubs really start to take on more of Bradley's contract in the trade.)

As for the post line I have seen, I see no good reason for the Yankees to get Pierre, especially to DH. As a Cubs fan, just one yr of Pierre proved enough to me that he is overrated. Yes, he has speed. Yes, he can be a .300 hitter. But, his defense is OK at best, if not used as a DH. His OBP is horrible. .300 hitter, .320 OBS .330 best. No power, which is almost a requirement for a DH. DH, in my definition, is a guy with declining defensive abilities, but is still capable of hitting 25+ HRs and/or drive in 75+ RBIs. Pierre only fits one of the requirements - declining defensive abilities. Me being, at times, a Yankee hater. Yes part jealousy because of all the WS won; not afraid to admit it. I would love to see the Yankees sign Pierre and use him as a DH. Worsens their team.

CFSB, a few points. One, how the hell can you expect for someone to give you a one year contract for Bradley? Bradley is a complete headache. If he hadnt been in LA before(and hated by almost every fan, although he eventually gor us Ethier), a possible deal would be Bradley for Pierre, with the Cubs throwing in money. Not only to cover the difference of the two contracts, but also for simply taking Bradley....

Two, a DH, IMO, doesnt need to be someone with power. It should be someone who helps the team offensive. Adding speed to the Yankees, while keeping the Jeter-Arod-Tex-Posada core all together would be deadly.

Three, the Yankees can't sign Pierre. The whole bad thing about Pierre is his contract. He has 2/~18 left on his deal. The dodgers wont eat that because he was still valueable for us last year. If they Yankees would get him, it would be in a trade, although it would be a complete salary dump, nothing of value going to the Dodgers...

I don't even like the Dodgers, but it's sad that any team, anywhere, doesn't have enough money to sign a marginal talent like Randy Wolf. Ridiculous.

"CFSB, a few points. One, how the hell can you expect for someone to give you a one year contract for Bradley?"

By us eating part of the season year. It isnt rocket science, and it is what has been talked about on here for months. Burrell (1 year on contract) was the first and is the player linked most with Bradley in rumors. It eventually leaves us with a question to you of "How the hell can you question someone giving a one year contrac for Bradley".

Oh, and so you know, the Cubs will have NOTHING to do with Pierre again, even if the Dodgers would take Bradley. Pierre marks one of the biggest debacles in Cubs history - and that says a lot!

"Two, a DH, IMO, doesnt need to be someone with power. It should be someone who helps the team offensive."

This is true. BUT, how do you get Pierre fitting as a DH if you admit a DH should be someone who helps with offense? After all, THIS is Juan Pierre:

2004 .343 wOBA
2005 .309 wOBA
2006 .319 wOBA
2007 .317 wOBA
2008 .304 wOBA (1/2-2/3 season played)
2009 .338 wOBA (1/2-2/3 season played)
League Average wOBA usually .330

Juan Pierre hasn’t been as much as a League Average hitter over a full season since 2001, and in the 1.75 seasons of +Average production, he has just barley scraped over. We are then left with this

2004 3.6 WAR (as CF)
2005 1.7 WAR (as CF)
2006 2.9 WAR (as CF)
2007 1.6 WAR (as CF)
2008 0.1 WAR (as LF)
2009 1.8 WAR (as LF)
Average Player generally about 1.0 WAR

Now, here he looks above average a little bit during most seasons. Problem? He was a CF until 2006, where he was on a +2.5 Run position scale. 2008 shows him as a dead-even replacement level player because he was in LF, where the scale is -7.5 positional Runs. If those CF years were scaled on -7.5 instead of +2.5, then they would end up looking roughly like this:

(As fulltime LF)
2004 2.7 WAR
2005 0.7 WAR
2006 2.0 WAR
2007 0.7 WAR
2008 0.7 WAR
2009 1.8 WAR

3x Below Average, 2x a bit above average and 1x solid season way back in 2004. Would I use him as a LF? No, not unless I had no other options available to me. Some teams might in a pinch, but he is basically league average (on average) as a LF the last 6 years, and that isnt what a good team is looking for in one of the easiest positions to fill on the diamond.

Ok, but lets put them as a DH though. That is of course a -17.5 Runs positional scale, and all Defensive value is removed since he wouldn’t have been on the field

2004 1.9 WAR
2005 -0.1 WAR
2006 -0.4 WAR
2007 0.0 WAR
2008 -1.1 WAR
2009 0.1 WAR

1 year where he would have been a passable stop-gap DH back in 2004, and then the last 5 seasons where he would have been replacement level or below if used as a DH. That means you can pull up a random scrub from AAA for your DH position and he will be as productive as Juan Pierre there.

In closing, using Juan Pierre as a DH is forfeiting any value what so ever from the position and NO team would do it. Juan Pierre as a LF is roughly a League Average player, which can be serviceable but not valuable, and not worth targeting in a trade. Juan Pierre in CF is something you would do only in emergency situations though. And those are the reason the Dodgers have been unable to find anyone willing to trade for Juan Pierre the last 2 seasons – who in their right mind would trade for a neutral to negative value player if it meant any real dollar or prospect cost?

And just to detail further:
- Juan Pierre the CF = emergency cases only
- Juan Pierre the LF = about League Average, and much better options available for position
- Juan Pierre the DH = Replacement Level player, avoid at all costs!

Oh, and just because I dont think Dodger Fans really get it:

"(and hated by almost every fan, although he eventually gor us Ethier)"

You didnt say this in a very proud manor, but Dodger fans usually do so I just felt I would mention it...

Ethier
2007 1.6 WAR
2008 3.4 WAR
2009 2.5 WAR
Total 7.5 WAR

Gutierrez:
2007 1.7 WAR
2008 2.2 WAR
2009 5.9 WAR
Total 9.8 WAR

Difference = 2.3 WAR

The Dodgers really didnt come out ahead in that deal. Considering they got a couple seasons of Bradley (for better or worse), they merely ended up about even in the end.

Gutierrez has a monster WAR because of his great fielding ability, right?

They use the same metrics in UZR that gave Juan Rivera a +14? Or something close to it? Okay.

You have a hard time believing that an adequate fielding CFer can be worth 11.4 RAR in Left Field when finally healthy? Okay man…

SuzysMan, Franklin has had one great fielding year in CF, and that was this past year. Before that in CF, his UZR was .5, .1, 1.3 and 1.4. Maybe he had a fluke(doubtful, based on his UZR in RF the year before and the small sample sizes of the other measurements)? Maybe, more likely, UZR is a bad tool to use on a year to year basis and it needs to be for multiple years, if not your whole career..

And I'd like to say this. When we traded Gutierrez, he was either 19 or 20 and we got Bradley back, who had shown all star+ talent. Franklin hit 283 this year, but has a career 268 average and hit just 248 in Cleveland in 08. Lets see if 09 was a fluke or a breakout....

Meanwhile, Ethier has consistenly improved in the majors. Considering our team, I'd take Ethier's offense over Franklin's defense...

"SuzysMan, Franklin has had one great fielding year in CF, and that was this past year. Before that in CF, his UZR was .5, .1, 1.3 and 1.4. Maybe he had a fluke(doubtful, based on his UZR in RF the year before and the small sample sizes of the other measurements)?"

No, it is because the 4 partial seasons you point to only saw him play a combined 159 Innings - less then 18 games total over a 4 year span. As far as what those 0.5, 0.1, 1.3 and 1.4 are towards his ability in center, you need to look at UZR/150 (which is UZR over 150 games) It is there for the sole purpose of comparing uneven playing-time seasons to eachother, like we have there. Looking at the UZR150's, you see this:
34.8 (off 3 inn)
8.4 (off 27 inn)
36.6 (off 32 inn)
18.4 (off 97 inn)

Those average out to 24.55, which is pretty dang close to:
27.1 (off 1353.1 inn last season)
isnt it?

Now, of course the previous 4 seasons are still extremely small sample sizes, and there will be some fluctuation in his defensive value going forward (as there is in everything year to year). But he has been more valuable the last 3 seasons - that isnt open to fluctuation, its in the books. And his UZR/150 for the two OF positions he has played regularly are a near perfect match (26.3 RF, 24.2 CF) showing his true ability is very much in the range he provided last season.

"Considering our team, I'd take Ethier's offense over Franklin's defense..."

And that very well might be true for every single Dodger fan - its personal preference. But when it comes to true value, the two are pretty much a wash. Different styles yes, but that overall value point still stands.

"Suzysman: After 1 good season do you really see Gutierrez = Ethier?"

Its not one good season by any means. Stack up the two players by Best/Middle/Worst over the last three seasons:

Beat - 3.4 AE (08) & 5.9 FG (09)

Middle - 2.5 AE (09) & 2.2 FG (08*)

Worst - 1.6 AE (07) & 1.7 FG (07*)

*Note: The 07 (301 PA) and 08 (440 PA) of Gutierrez are not full seasons - yet he still managed to match Ethier (or get pretty darn close to it) over them both. If you give Gutierrez credit for full seasons at the same exact rates in 07 and 08, you will actually end up adding about 3-4 WAR on top of the total 2.3 WAR advantage he already has. And if you were asking me which is better, 3 years of 7.5 WAR (Ethier value) or 3 years of 13.5 WAR (Gutierrez, which is 9.8 WAR real WAR and estimated 3.5 WAR missing time included), then clearly I and everyone else on the planet will answer Gutierrez all day long.

So yes, I have no problem what so ever saying Gutierrez = Ethier. Gutierrez is actually clearly superior to Ethier based off WAR the last three seasons (2.3 WAR to be exact), and lightyears better when playing-time is factored for (which ends up at about a 6 WAR advantage). Merely saying they are equal is giving Franklin even less credit then he rightfully deserves, and everyone should have no problem at all saying it.

oops. Came here to check numbers and mistakenly left that when I didnt tab back. It was intended for another thread, and please disregard.

If the Yankees were to trade for Juan Pierre with the idea of DHing him in mind, that would a god awful mistake. That responsibility should fall on either Damon or Holliday, preferably Holliday. I don't like the idea of Bay in New York, his numbers are misleading because he hits bad pitching, but not so much the top guys. Also, with all the talk of signing Holliday or Bay, why not look at Carl Crawford? The Rays have a club option on him for 12+ million. I think we'll see him released, however, because the Rays seem to be trying to overhaul their team and reduce operating costs, seen in the Kazmir trade. If he is on the market, Crawford would provide the speed that Pierre would bring (60 SB last year) and provide a stronger average than damon (.295 career hitter) and bring some pop (15 homers last year). At 28 he is also younger than both of them. This seems like a great fit to me.

Also, for the pitching situation, at this point I think it's best for Joba to be in the bullpen. In the rotation he's been ineffective consistently while in the bullpen he has been reliable. He's got closer stuff that he can't use for 6 or 7 innings, making him a logical setup man. Hughes, however, i would give another shot in the rotation if there is no one else to fill in. He's younger than Joba and has new confidence now, so I'd give it a shot. For the rest of the rotation, I think it would be best to leave Wang out for the time being, his healthe and effectiveness are both questionable. I think a great signing would be John Lackey. He's quietly had a solid career in Anaheim, posting a 3.81 ERA lifetime. Thats good enough to win 15 games a year as the 2nd or 3rd man in the rotation. He's a competitor, he'd fit right in with the rest of the Yankees in that respect, and he wants to win and what better place to do it than in New York? Sheets might be a decent gamble to take also as a 5th man in the rotation if he's willing to take a short, cheap contract to prove himself. If not, Gaudin could certainly do the job. Also, Melancon is promising out of the bullpen, we should probably give him a shot.

In a perfect world the Yankee opening day roster would look like this:

Lineup
1 - Derek Jeter SS
2 - Carl Crawford LF
3 - Mark Teixeira 1B
4 - Alex Rodriguez 3B
5 - Matt Holliday DH
6 - Robinson Cano 2B
7 - Jorge Posada C
8 - Nick Swisher RF
9 - Melky Cabrera / Brett Gardner / Austin Jackson CF

Bench
Jerry Hairston Junior
Francisco Cervelli
Eric Hinske
Ramiro Pena

Rotation
1 - CC Sabathia
2 - AJ Burnett / John Lackey
3 - AJ Burnett / John Lackey
4 - Andy Pettite
5 - Chad Gaudin / Phil Hughes / Ben Sheets

Bullpen
CL - Mariano Rivera
SU - Joba Chamberlain
SU - Phil Hughes / David Robertson
MR - Alfredo Aceves
MR - Mark Melancon
MR - Damaso Marte
LR - Chad Gaudin / Chien-Ming Wang

For the Yankees, why not sign Chone Figgins, play him in LF and let Damon walk, retaining Matsui. Figgins would bat leadoff and could spell AROD at 3B. His salary probably will come in less than Damon and he is younger and probably a better LF option with Damon.

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