Odds & Ends: Uggla, Granderson, Lackey

"Is it possible the Red Sox could get Granderson from Det and move Ellsbury to LF? Pretty quick OF, no?"

Possibly, Granderson does have power and speed. But my bet is if the Sox trade for Granderson then Ells becomes a Tiger.

Not necessarily they want to win now and Ellsbury is still young and cheap enough. So yeah it would probably be a flip flop of CF.

Theo Epstein wouldn't trade Ellsbury for Granderson. As infuriating as Ellsbury can be, Granderson would be more so. He's struck out 567 times the last 4 years. That's an average of 142 times a season for those of you who flunked the 1st grade. Nice power/speed combination, but Granderson appears to be morphing into Mike Cameron. That's not a bad thing, just not a thing you want at the top of your lineup.

"That's not a bad thing, just not a thing you want at the top of your lineup"
Jacoby Ellsbury isn't a great leadoff hitter either. Either way neither one should be leading off.

IF Uggla can play LF, Uggla to the Braves makes just too much sense not to happen. It would allow Prado to stick at 2B and his salary would be low enough that we wouldn't be forced to trade a starter even though we still may. With the stabilty of our current rotation we can afford to trade out of our depth of good young starters at nearly every level.

I better call up my cable company I'm seeing a different game than other people are about Ellsbury, in CF. I wonder what CoCo Crisp stats were when he first came up to the majors. Just curious.

"It would almost obvious that Kelly Johnson would be involved in that deal because the Marlins would need a second baseman right?"

Chris Coghlan or Emilio Bonifacio would suffice just fine at second base.

I don't know why Braves fans would be excited about putting Uggla in left... you have to imagine he'd be a defensive travesty out there.

Is Marlon Byrd the new Gary Matthews Jr of 2010? Teams should be wary of Byrd. Ask the Angels how that Matthews signing working out for them.

"I better call up my cable company I'm seeing a different game than other people are about Ellsbury, in CF. I wonder what CoCo Crisp stats were when he first came up to the majors. Just curious."

In Crisp first full season in the majors (2004) his UZR was 16.9 then his next year (2005) was 17.4.
If you want to count 2003 when he played half a season his UZR was 4.5.

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1572&position=OF

Yeah, I don't think KJ gets moved in a part of a package for Uggla. It would be a package full of prospects with little or no service time (ie will play for 400k for the next 2-3 years).

"Be careful not to take one year of UZR data too literally.

Certainly, Ellsbury isn't a plus in center, and he should be better given his raw speed and athleticism, but you can't really label him as the worst defensive everyday center fielder in the game based off a limited sample size of UZR."

I know that but I was just pointing out that he is nothing special or at least hasn't been. Everyone seems to get caught up on his great diving catches but that doesn't mean he's a good defender.

"

Red Sox Get: Hanley Ramirez, Emilio Bonifacio

Marlins Get: Clay Buchholz, Lars Anderson, Daniel Bard, Brandon Phillips, Bronson Arroyo

Reds Get: Jed Lowrie, Dan Uggla, Michael Bowden

I know I'm dreaming, but I think that's a pretty good trade"

Why the hell would the Marlins take Arroyo and Phillips if they are looking to dump Uggla's salary. That just doesn't make any sense.

Bleh, I guess.....I didn't realize Arroyo was making close to 13 million...geez

As a diehard Sox fan I can't believe that I am reading about how horrible Jacoby is in center. I don't judge by stupid UZR stats. I judge from what I see and the kid is getting better & better.

I'd like Carl Pavano to remain a Twin. If the twins retain Pavano and sign 1 more Upside Starter (Preferably a Lefty) Washburn, Bedard

Other guys I would not mind to have in our rotation next season include: Justin Duchscherer, Jon Garland, Jason Marquis, Brett Myers, Joel Piniero, Brad Penny, Ben Sheets, Chris Capuano, or Rich Harden.

"

Red Sox Get: Hanley Ramirez, Emilio Bonifacio

Marlins Get: Clay Buchholz, Lars Anderson, Daniel Bard, Brandon Phillips, Bronson Arroyo

Reds Get: Jed Lowrie, Dan Uggla, Michael Bowden

I know I'm dreaming, but I think that's a pretty good trade"

thats a terrible deal for the reds.. absolutley terrible. bradon phillips is better than lowrie and uggla put together. Horrible deal. The red sox are giving up alot!!! if there gonna move such good and young peices, they might as well trade for roy holliday, not hanley

Uggla to the Braves would be awesome. He couldn't be much worse than Garret Anderson in LF.

@BleedingCubbieBlue

The only way the Tigers take Bradley is if the Cubs essentially eat most of his salary or the Cubs take 2 of those horrible contracts in return. The Tigers are looking to dump salary not pickup other teams spare parts for a Granderson who's contract is reasonable.

I am loving the Granderson/Jackson to Yankees idea over anything else I've heard or seen so far.

If the Cubs trade for Granderson, I highly doubt Bradley will be included, and if they do end up trading for Granderson, and Bradley IS included, the Cubs would have to eat up most of his contract. This is what I say the Cubs should do:

Jake Fox/Micah Hoffpauir
Mike Fontenot
Wellington Castillo/Darwin Barney

For

Curtis Granderson
And a prospect

"Jake Fox/Micah Hoffpauir
Mike Fontenot
Wellington Castillo/Darwin Barney

For

Curtis Granderson
And a prospect"

That is a horrific proposal. Fontenot and Fox (both out of options) could be non-tender candidates, making them FA for anyone to sign. Hoffpauir will be in that boat next season. And neither Castillo or Barney hold much trade value at all.

We would be lucky if that package brought us Cody Ross, and would never get us in the door for a Granderson conversation (much less Granderson + Prospect)

CURTIS GRANDERSON OPS VS LHP:

484

FOUR EIGHTY FOUR!!!

Come ON people, he's a glorified platoon player at this point. He's no star, he's barely league average. He's not really of the kind of value people think.

I think Granderson makes all the sense in the world for the Yankees. He's only 29, signed affordable (for the yanks) for the next couple of years, and adds speed and defensive upgrade that they desperately need in their outfield to limit some of the gap hits.

If I was the Yankees though I would try to extend the trade by having them add in Edwin Jackson and a contract like Guillen or Ordenez that they would seemingly love to unload, even if it means giving up a few other talented prospects. I do fully expect the Yanks to have to give up some top tier talent prospects if they were to try and get both Granderson and Jackson, such as Austin Jackson, Montero, McCallister, etc., to name a few.

If I was the Yankees though I would try to extend the trade by having them add in Edwin Jackson and a contract like Guillen or Ordenez that they would seemingly love to unload...

Posted by: money941 | November 12, 2009 at 01:29 PM
___________________________

Every time I hear a Yankee fan propose expanding the team's budget all I hear is wa, wa, wa...followed by:

Dear Sire, Akeem and I have depleted our funds. Kindly send 300,000 American dollars for we are in dire straits. Your humble servant, Semi.

I love how Cubs' fans don't want to give anything of value for Granderson. I've said it before and here it is...again. To get Granderson you have to give up one (and most likely two) of:

1. Marmol
2. Guzman
3. Castro
4. Wells
5. Soto

Hoffpauir, Fontenot, Fox, Theriot, Miles, and any other MiL players not listed above (I'm looking at you Vitters) have essentially zero trade value in a blockbuster deal.

"Although I agree with the Byrd statement, your Elsbury not being leadoff statement is just amazing. 70 stolen bases, he's a table-setter. Why wouldn't he be leadoff?"

How about because his career OBP is only .350. That's horrible for a lead off guy. The ideal leadoff type guy would have at least a .385 OBP so that you can actually have chances to drive him in. If your leadoff guy isn't on base how can he possibly be a table setter.

Granderson, Jackson, and Robertson for Austin Jackson, Zach Mcallister, Phil Hughes, Jesus Montero, and Ian kennedy. This gives the Tigers 2 possible starters, a top prospect outfielder, top catching prospect, and late inning bullpen help to replace Rodney. This would give teh Yankees a good quality outfielder who can hopefully bat 270. , steal 25 bags, hit 25-35 homers. And a number 3 pitcher behind a.j.

hah just saw the mlbtr hit on sportsnation! prepare for some extra hits tonight

"The cubs give.
Milton Bradley & cash
Aaron Shafer
Jake Fox
Wellington Castillo

Tigers give.
Curtis Granderson
Danny Worth"

The new proposal is 2 prospects ranking around 15th best in a bottom 5 system, one possible non-tender non-prospect in Jake Fox (27 YO, out of option player with limited ML experience/success and no position he plays well enough to keep on a roster) and a bad contract (Bradley) to a team trying to get rid of bad contracts?

So the Tigers remove their All Star CF (Tied with Beltran for 2nd highest 3-year WAR of all CF) on an affordable deal just so they can add money (unless "cash" means about 8MM), 2 should-be DHs that they must keep on their 25man roster (one that is being run out of his 5th city because of issues) and two borderline prospects? It just isnt realistic at all.

A return for Granderson is going to cost the Cubs at least one of the top 3 prospects in our system. It would likely be one of Cashner/Vitters/Castro, one of J.Jackson/Atkins and possibly even Carpenter or Shafer being included. If someone like Fox or Fontenot made their way in, they would just be throw-ins since we are possibly non-tendering them anyway – possibly adding a Worth type on the Tigers side in a very best case.

"This is a salary dump not a rebuilding"

It is NOT a salary dump. It is removing future salary by trading the players who will bring extreme value in return. (Granderson and Jackson - both players with low salaries but huge trade value)

"Really, I wish people wouldn't gratify Granderson as they do."

Like I said, 2nd highest WAR of qualifying CF the last three years. 147.2 RAR, 14.5 WAR over a 3 year span, for an average of 4.8 WAR a season. Last year only 28 players provided that kind of production. Or even if you grade somehow discount his best season and grade on a weighted scale, you are still coming up with a 4.0 range WAR value – on par with what Torii Hunter provided in 2009 (and that cost the Angels 18 Million).

People don’t seem to have a very good grasp of value if they really think 29 Year Old Granderson isnt one of the top CF in the game over something as meaningless as K totals and a bad season due to a fluke BAbip.

Does that also mean Sizemore and Beltran also arent very good? Compare the 3 year averages

.277/.350/.499/.849 with 87 2B, 44 3B, 75 HR and 58 SB for Granderson
.266/.373/.472/.845 with 93 2B, 16 3B, 75 HR and 84 SB for Sizemore
.290/.375/.510/.885 with 95 2B, 9 3B, 70 HR and 59 SB for Beltran

While Granderson has the best UZR/150 of the bunch.

Bamf, you are a moron. That trade never happens. Keep dreaming

Hopefully they stay away from Granderson. Why give anything up for him when Mike Cameron could be had for even less money and NO PROSPECTS? I wouldn't mind Jackson, though his regression in the second half of last year is troubling.

"If you're going to suggest we give up our entire farm, then substitute the names Jackson and Robertson
(who is GOD AWFUL) with the following name:

Justin Verlander."

No way the Tigers move Verlander. The reason they are shopping everyone else is so they can have enough to give Verlander an extension.

They can also throw in Melky for all i care. And why not joba?

Um how is Austin Jackson terrible? Just because he had some struggles last year at the age of only 22? He still has plenty of time to develop the Yankees aren't rushing him up to the big club just yet.

with 4 homeruns

They claim he is going to be a 5 tool player, one of those tools happen to be power

They never claimed he WOULD be a 5 tool player. They said he COULD be one.

He is excellent on defense. He hits .300. He runs the bases very well. He hits both lefties and righties. And this in a year where he was classifed as bad? God I'd be afraid if I were another major league team if our top prospect's bad year is hitting .300 with 65 rbs and 24 SBs in 28 attempts. He only struck out 120 times, too.

He is not terrible, and I'm sick of people who don't know anything about our farm system coming around here talking like they know our players.
He's probably our future leadoff or number 2 hitter, and a good one at that.

Montero is being touted for his bat. He's a future DH, and i can't wait to see him in our ballpark if he makes it. He was batting an overall .337 with 17 home runs with about 40 games to play before he broke his thumb.

McAllister is not dust. Except for 2007, in a short season league, he has yet to post an ERA over 3 as a starter, and is posting incredibly great strikeout numbers.

As for Ian? I'll give
him to you for free.

Bottom line-you're dead wrong if you think that we'd give all those players up for a terrible pitcher, a guy who can't hit left handed pitching, and a pitcher who had one good half season so far in his career.

I think that Austin Jackson will be ready in a year, if not this one. If anything, offer someone a one-year deal.

Granderson would just turn into an obstacle, and I think that Jackson in his prime will be better than Granderson in his prime.

Ian Kennedy will be a 2nd or 3rd starter. Don't trade him. Maybe move him to the bullpen too. All I heard last year with Hughes was "he sucks, he can't start 'cuz he's terrible." Partially right, because hitters at-bat looked like they were batting in the dark.

Power is the last thing to develop, and austin is a very strong man. I doubt Cashman would trade Jackson in a trade for Curtis

who the hell says that Dan Uggla can't play left field? He would at least have a little more passion that Garrett Anderson ever did and would bring a hell of alot more power. And I get the feeling that he would work on it just a bit in the offseason, so shut your lips and be open to suggestions. Also remember, this is the AJC talking. The same people who told us that Griffey had signed with us. So who the hell knows? All I know is that Uggla is a baseball player who has at least some experience in left field. And there is another guy on our team who proved that a guy can move to the outfield from the infield and still be successful...I think he plays third base and bats third, but I could be mistaken. Now of course i am not comparing uggla to chipper but my point is that it could happen

All the people talking smack about Ellsbury as a CF: Let's not forget he played 179 straight games without an error, and tied the MLB record for 11 put outs in a game. He doesn't get the greatest jump on the ball but has the ability to close and make the play due to his speed and killer glove. He should remain in CF. Let's remember he's only been at this level for two full seasons! The Sox best bet is to re-sign Bay or go after Holliday.

"

Red Sox Get: Hanley Ramirez, Emilio Bonifacio

Marlins Get: Clay Buchholz, Lars Anderson, Daniel Bard, Brandon Phillips, Bronson Arroyo

Reds Get: Jed Lowrie, Dan Uggla, Michael Bowden

I know I'm dreaming, but I think that's a pretty good trade"

No, it isn't.

Switch Arryo to the Sox and Bonifacio to the Reds and it would make sense. The Marlins don't have the money for Arryo

"And there is another guy on our team who proved that a guy can move to the outfield from the infield and still be successful...I think he plays third base and bats third, but I could be mistaken."

I see your point, but that's a terrible example. Chipper regularly attributes his recurring leg problems and chronic foot pain to his switch to the outfield. not that i'm saying that would happen to uggla, but still.

and whoever else said it hit the nail on the head: justifying uggla in left by saying he's better than garrett anderson is a really poor way to start a discussion... or to build a team for that matter.

as an alternative/back-up plan to laroche, why not trade for carlos pena. true, he's a lefty, but so is laroche. his avg took a dip this year, but he still walked more and had a higher slg and ops than laroche...and what braves fan wouldnt like to see 35-39 homers resting in the middle of the lineup? that'd allow the team to fill the outfield vacancy with someone closer to a true leadoff hitter, and bump mclouth down a few so that he can have some people on base to drive in. we'd have a very solid lineup and probably the deepest rotation in baseball.

the rays really need to clear some payroll and could move zobrist to first, so its not ridiculous to think it could happen.